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[Xplainin]

Lmao. You can't just use three for yields. Rdna CUs are bunched together. They are called dual CUs for a reason. If they disable one for yields, that's two CUs.

If you are going to be laughing at people and act like a prick then at least know what you are talking about.

Did I say they could use an odd number of Cu's? Go back and read my initial post where I said the whole reason they couldnt enable all CUs was because tempest is using one and you cant have odd numbers.
Do your homework champ.
Only an idiot would think that Sony would refer to the Tempest engine as a CU that they repurposed by stripping out cache etc and changing it to suit audio, when it wasnt a CU, nor in the Shader array on the GPU where its the only place Cu's get put.

 

[SlimySnake]

Did I say they could use an odd number of Cu's?

Nice try.

There are 40 CUs on the die, 36 for use, one repurposed for the Tempest Engine, leaving three for yields.

3 is an odd number.

Odd Number Definition (Illustrated Mathematics Dictionary)

Illustrated definition of Odd Number: Any integer (not a fraction) that cannot be divided exactly by 2. The last digit is 1, 3, 5, 7 or 9...

www.mathsisfun.com

You cant disable just three CUs.

 

[Infamy v1]

Sony Engineer: PS5 is technically between RDNA 1 and 2 (abridged)

Fanboys: *sends threats, demands clarification* "bu-bu-but AMD said RDNA2! Cerny said!

Youtuber with horrible track record: *proceeds to list fanboy dreams worse than misterxmedia and also spouts RDNA3 nonsense*

Same fanboys: Amazing, can't wait! RDNA3 damn wow, Cerny is a genius!!! Oh, you doubt these rumors? But why? He knew Fable was gonna be announced and it was!

Crazy how the start of the gen is reversed yet again lmao

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

Lol.

I see, so you are going to still go with the idea that the Tempest Engine is just a regular compute unit, even though Cerny is very explicit in that it is a separate customized hardware unit. Your claim is in clear contradiction to this, can you not see this? I guess not....

 

[loktaiextatus]

Sony Engineer: PS5 is technically between RDNA 1 and 2 (abridged)

Fanboys: *sends threats, demands clarification* "bu-bu-but AMD said RDNA2! Cerny said!

Youtuber with horrible track record: *proceeds to list fanboy dreams worse than misterxmedia and also spouts RDNA3 nonsense*

Same fanboys: Amazing, can't wait! RDNA3 damn wow, Cerny is a genius!!! Oh, you doubt these rumors? But why? He knew Fable was gonna be announced and it was!

Crazy how the start of the gen is reversed yet again lmao

A sony europe API engineer yeah...

VS the system architect, and manufacturer of the actual APU, so yeah there are some questions to be answered by SOMEBODY.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

So Matt who all the Sony people put up as knowing everything about PS5 because he worked on it has slammed this Moore's Law video as trash.


I guess its time to put this one to bed.

You seem to be implying that the info in the MLID video is wrong, while the same info in the RGT video is correct, another contradiction. Besides, I have no idea what the beef is all about, especially as MLID has been hinting about this info for months now, and clearly has his own contacts.

 

[Crimson_Fate]

So Matt who all the Sony people put up as knowing everything about PS5 because he worked on it has slammed this Moore's Law video as trash.


I guess its time to put this one to bed.

No, what happened was that RGT had the info and was sitting on it wanting more validation. He was sharing some info with MLID and from what I can read into it, MLID released the info early as his own . I got the feeling from the RGT video that he was trying to salvage some relationships with whoever was sharing the info with him since MLID may have burned those bridges.

 

[longdi]

The info from RGT isnt anything new, more like summarised guesses from the bits and pieces all over.

I doubt anyone will share insider tips with YouTubers

 

[DeeDogg_]

why do people here and on the other site always put their full faith in "insiders" when theyve nothing buy hype up bullshit and turds the past 7 months?

 

[BluRayHiDef]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT​

A lot of people have become confused by the semantics of the Sony Engineer's statement that the PlayStation 5's GPU is a hybrid of RDNA 1 and RDNA 2; they have concluded that the PlayStation 5's GPU fundamentally belongs to the generation that is RDNA 1 but has had certain features of RDNA 2 tacked on to it. This is ridiculous.

What the Sony Engineer meant was that RDNA 2 is the successor to RDNA 1 and therefore includes all of the features of RDNA 1 (except those that have obsolesced) and a host of new features. Hence, semantically speaking, an RDNA 2 GPU has all of the features of RDNA 1 (except those that have obsolesced) and all of the new features that are exclusive to RDNA 2. However, because the PlayStation 5's GPU is missing one of the new features that are exclusive to RDNA 2 (which has not been revealed), it isn't technically a full-blown RDNA 2 GPU featurewise. In other words, in terms of what features it possesses, it is between RDNA 1 and RDNA 2.

However, in terms if its structural design (i.e. its scale of 7nm, the ray tracing components in its CUs, the layout if its shader arrays, etc), it is fundamentally an RDNA 2 GPU, as it was built up from scratch according to the micro-architecture of RDNA 2. This is why it benefits from the higher performance per watt relative to RDNA 1 GPUs and can therefore run at a whopping 2.23 Ghz; if it were fundamentally an RDNA 1 GPU, it would not be able to run at such a high frequency.

Hence, instead of thinking of the PlayStation 5's GPU as a fundamentally RDNA 1 GPU with RDNA 2 features tacked on to it, think of it as a fundamentally RDNA 2 GPU with one feature removed.

Furthermore, considering the highly customized nature of the PlayStation 5, we can all be sure that Sony removed this single, unrevealed RDNA 2 feature from its GPU for a good reason. More than likely they have implemented a customization that renders it unnecessary.

 

[BurnCoalMeltPole]

why do people here and on the other site always put their full faith in "insiders" when theyve nothing buy hype up bullshit and turds the past 7 months?

Assuming that you are referring to the topic at hand, I take serious issue with your characterization of 'full faith' in plausible information. You may not realize this, but there are a few members of this forum with a computer science background, and are quite capable of separating the wheat from the chaff, which ends up being one of the attractions of a site like this. YouTubers like MLID & RGT tend to heavily qualify the information they pass on, and not all of it ends up being promoted within these discussions. Besides, even if it turns out to not be true in the end, it hardly means it is hype, BS, or otherwise.

For instance, the rumor of a possible memory upgrade is being regarded with a good deal of skepticism, and rightly so. Sourcing so much high performance memory at a reasonable price is not an easy thing to do, and there may be other technical hitches that make it impractical. But then again, the pandemic situation, or the strength of a product offering, may confer some leverage to a customer in making a large sustained purchase. Anyway, it will be one thing to look for when more technical details are revealed, and the significance of such will have been well considered beforehand.

Consoles have long been highly complex computers, full of innovations and compromises, and the expert community wishes to have a good evaluation of the value on offer. In the past few decades, sometimes that value has been missing, and so potential customers can be warned beforehand. When a product becomes popular in this market, it happens on a global scale, and so there is a public service aspect in trying to make sure that the highest value products make it to people looking for them.

Just a little bit of history. Back in the 1970s, the scientific community were looking at a transition with supercomputer technology, and a few options were available with the limited resources on hand. Instead of going with a known supplier and a flawed architecture, they put their weight behind an upstart company that was pushing a revolutionary product, and it paid off handsomely. The legendary Cray-1 supercomputer, full of innovations and cutting edge technology, offered high sustained performance with its new vector processors and fast memory. Decades later, vector processors would find their way into all kinds of consumer products, and even game consoles like the Playstation 2. Today, vector processors are found in most CPUs and are fundamental components of GPUs.

But there is plenty to consider, and the technical side of things make up only one aspect of a much larger picture. Other experts may consider the business models, and try to extrapolate implications for the industry as a whole and the impact on the quality of content.

Video game consoles are a critical component of the medium for interactive art. And art is damn important for civilization.

 

[93xfan]

If its Socom, my PS5 plans go from "maybe in 2 years" to "ABSOLUTELY DAY 1" immediately.

after Socom 4, I’ll need to see some MP gameplay first.

 

[Azurro]

WTF are you talking about?
Everyone with half a brain knows that shit.
They can repurpose a CU for another function if they want, and its no longer disabled. Thats what they did.
There are 40 CUs on the die, 36 for use, one repurposed for the Tempest Engine, leaving three for yields.
Mark Cerny himself said it was a repurposed CU.
If They made a completely different chip for Tempest, it wouldn't be referred to as a CU.
SMFH.
You believe what you want, it wont change the fact.

Hey, look, the diversity hire. I'm so glad we have someone in the organization to represent retarded people all over the world.

Hey good buddy, want a snack? A cookie?

Alright little buddy, if you are not hungry we can go back to your lesson and the difference between an even number and an odd number.

I also see you have difficulties understanding the difference between on and off, but we'll get there.

 

[vkbest]

Did I say they could use an odd number of Cu's? Go back and read my initial post where I said the whole reason they couldnt enable all CUs was because tempest is using one and you cant have odd numbers.

That is not true. I don't know what are you talking about, but tempest is a CU but not is into the GPU. Cerny said they stripped caches for tempest and turned it into a dedicated SIMD block

PS5 gpu have 4 disabled CU, tempest its not a one from them.

 

[Dodkrake]

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT​

A lot of people have become confused by the semantics of the Sony Engineer's statement that the PlayStation 5's GPU is a hybrid of RDNA 1 and RDNA 2; they have concluded that the PlayStation 5's GPU fundamentally belongs to the generation that is RDNA 1 but has had certain features of RDNA 2 tacked on to it. This is ridiculous.

What the Sony Engineer meant was that RDNA 2 is the successor to RDNA 1 and therefore includes all of the features of RDNA 1 (except those that have obsolesced) and a host of new features. Hence, semantically speaking, an RDNA 2 GPU has all of the features of RDNA 1 (except those that have obsolesced) and all of the new features that are exclusive to RDNA 2. However, because the PlayStation 5's GPU is missing one of the new features that are exclusive to RDNA 2 (which has not been revealed), it isn't technically a full-blown RDNA 2 GPU featurewise. In other words, in terms of what features it possesses, it is between RDNA 1 and RDNA 2.

However, in terms if its structural design (i.e. its scale of 7nm, the ray tracing components in its CUs, the layout if its shader arrays, etc), it is fundamentally an RDNA 2 GPU, as it was built up from scratch according to the micro-architecture of RDNA 2. This is why it benefits from the higher performance per watt relative to RDNA 1 GPUs and can therefore run at a whopping 2.23 Ghz; if it were fundamentally an RDNA 1 GPU, it would not be able to run at such a high frequency.

Hence, instead of thinking of the PlayStation 5's GPU as a fundamentally RDNA 1 GPU with RDNA 2 features tacked on to it, think of it as a fundamentally RDNA 2 GPU with one feature removed.

Furthermore, considering the highly customized nature of the PlayStation 5, we can all be sure that Sony removed this single, unrevealed RDNA 2 feature from its GPU for a good reason. More than likely they have implemented a customization that renders it unnecessary.

This shouldn't take a genius to figure out, but your summary is brilliant.

Sony Engineer: PS5 is technically between RDNA 1 and 2 (abridged)

Fanboys: *sends threats, demands clarification* "bu-bu-but AMD said RDNA2! Cerny said!

Youtuber with horrible track record: *proceeds to list fanboy dreams worse than misterxmedia and also spouts RDNA3 nonsense*

Same fanboys: Amazing, can't wait! RDNA3 damn wow, Cerny is a genius!!! Oh, you doubt these rumors? But why? He knew Fable was gonna be announced and it was!

Crazy how the start of the gen is reversed yet again lmao

Bullshit. Most people in this thread didn't buy into the rumors, so you're being disingenuous on purpose.

 

[TBiddy]

I love the reasoning. "This rumour that every single person that cares the slightest would be able to predict [fable, no pricing, no date] I heard was true, thus this incredibly specific and outright crazy fan-fiction mail I got must also be true".

 

[hard_boiled]

I cannot believe this thread is still going. Moore's Law is Dead was obviously posting the video as bait. I would be surprised if even he believes what he is saying. His statements were so ludicrous that they must have been made simply for ad revenue driven by controversy, which appears to have worked. In fact, it would be amusing if the OP was Moore's Law is Dead & decided to post his bait to neoGAF.

 

[RaySoft]

"Defective"? Lol. The word you are looking for is "disabled".
And yes, same as if a CPU core is faulty the Die is screwed. Just like if the IO block has a faulty part it's defective.
And yes, even if the MS 3D Engine is defective the whole APU is stuffed.

I'm having a hard time following your logic on your posts to be honest.
In interest of understand you; Your logic is that they disable a good CU so it can instead be used as a Tempest engine?

 

[John Wick]

WTF are you talking about?
Everyone with half a brain knows that shit.
They can repurpose a CU for another function if they want, and its no longer disabled. Thats what they did.
There are 40 CUs on the die, 36 for use, one repurposed for the Tempest Engine, leaving three for yields.
Mark Cerny himself said it was a repurposed CU.
If They made a completely different chip for Tempest, it wouldn't be referred to as a CU.
SMFH.
You believe what you want, it wont change the fact.

So Mr Expert what happens when there are only 36 working CU on the unit?
Explain to me how a defective CU is repurposed for Tempest? I will then pass this on to the engineers so they can save all the defective units

 

[John Wick]

Sony Engineer: PS5 is technically between RDNA 1 and 2 (abridged)

Fanboys: *sends threats, demands clarification* "bu-bu-but AMD said RDNA2! Cerny said!

Youtuber with horrible track record: *proceeds to list fanboy dreams worse than misterxmedia and also spouts RDNA3 nonsense*

Same fanboys: Amazing, can't wait! RDNA3 damn wow, Cerny is a genius!!! Oh, you doubt these rumors? But why? He knew Fable was gonna be announced and it was!

Crazy how the start of the gen is reversed yet again lmao

Worse than MrXmedia??? Having a hidden extra GPU? The things mentioned by the Youtuber while highly unlikely are possible. Instead of giving your hottakes how come the PS4 went from 4gb of ram to 8gb last minute??? How come MS increased the APU speed of the original Xbox One last minute? Certain things can be done last minute like enabling an extra 2 CU if the yields are amazing. Increasing clock frequency can be done if thermal power allows. Swapping for faster modules of ram too. It all depends on what changes they made.
As for what the GPU is its been stated as being based on RDNA 2 by Cerny and AMD with custom customisation. Same as Series X. The chip breakdowns will occur in August so we'll know then.

 

[Rubik8]

I will believe it when I see it...

That’s good policy in all things. Especially with anonymous internet rumors.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

I cannot believe this thread is still going. Moore's Law is Dead was obviously posting the video as bait. I would be surprised if even he believes what he is saying. His statements were so ludicrous that they must have been made simply for ad revenue driven by controversy, which appears to have worked. In fact, it would be amusing if the OP was Moore's Law is Dead & decided to post his bait to neoGAF.

I can assure you that I am not Moore's Law Is Dead.

 

[hard_boiled]

I can assure you that I am not Moore's Law Is Dead.

I only said it would be amusing, not that you were MLiD

 

[geordiemp]

I can assure you that I am not Moore's Law Is Dead.

I am moores law is dead



No I am Moores law is dead

 

[MobileOrder]

I for one am hoping for a Socom MP focused game, ala II or Confrontation with AAA polish. Developed by Guerilla's second Unit for the past 2-3 years with Cerny's input for 3D Audio - how awesome would it be in terms of immersion of gunfire, movement, destruction, etc.

Some reasons why I continue to believe:

• Rumor last year of Guerrilla's second unit potentially working on Socom
• Shuhei Yoshida retweeted a stupid fan attacking him regarding how he was the reason Socom was dead in Nov 2019
• With the success of battle royale and PUBG games in recent years, ripe time for an exclusive to cement PS in this area
• Cerny's focus on Audio would create a great showcase for 3D audio/Tempest Engine - tactile shooter where sound would be a critical element
• If focused on MP, development cycle should be truncated e.g. 2018-2020, and could be a launch window game
• lack of launch games hints at one or two surprises (fingers crossed)

Would love to see the graphical powerhouse of Guerilla's Engine where they can focus on a defined area of combat versus open world (Horizon). I keep hoping Socom gets the investment it deserves (Confrontation was janky but fun), but likely won't happen sadly. Just my fan fiction for now, until one day...

 

[hussar16]

rdna3 ? how come ps5 struggles to hit 4k native

 

[jonnyp]

rdna3 ? how come ps5 struggles to hit 4k native

Struggles? Oh I guess you're trying to imply that since the UE5 demo ran at 1440p means all other games are also sub-4K.... Please do provide us a list of the games confirmed to not be 4K so far.

 

[SlimySnake]

rdna3 ? how come ps5 struggles to hit 4k native

Sony showed 24 games at the PS5 conference. All ran at native 4k 30 fps. or native 4k 60 fps.

 

[Silent Viper]

Secret Cerny sauce

 

[Silent Viper]

Sony showed 24 games at the PS5 conference. All ran at native 4k 30 fps. or native 4k 60 fps.

Lol none of them were 4k60. Few of them got performance mode but not native 4k60

 

[Zathalus]

Lol none of them were 4k60. Few of them got performance mode but not native 4k60

GT7 is 4k60. With RT reflections as well.

 

[SlimySnake]

Lol none of them were 4k60. Few of them got performance mode but not native 4k60

GT7 was native 4k 60 fps.

 

[Ph0enixes]

.

 

[onQ123]

rdna3 ? how come ps5 struggles to hit 4k native

What game on PS5 have you seen that struggled to hit 4K native?


There is no news of this anywhere that I have seen so can you post a link or something?

 

[Tqaulity]

Lol none of them were 4k60. Few of them got performance mode but not native 4k60

LOL what? EVERY 1st Party game at the conference was confirmed 4K/60fps at this point except Rachet & Clank and Demon's Souls. The following games are all playable at 4K/60fps:
Spider Man: Miles Morales
GT7
Astro's Playroom
Sackboy Adventures
Destruction All Stars

Not to mention other 3rd party games such as:
Godfall
Deathloop
Dirt 5
NBA 2K21
Destiny 2
Avengers

and many more to come! In fact, there hasn't been a single game yet confirmed to be displaying less than a native 4K image!

Stop it with the ill-informed FUD you are trying to spread!

 

[Hunnybun]

LOL what? EVERY 1st Party game at the conference was confirmed 4K/60fps at this point except Rachet & Clank and Demon's Souls. The following games are all playable at 4K/60fps:
Spider Man: Miles Morales
GT7
Astro's Playroom
Sackboy Adventures
Destruction All Stars

Not to mention other 3rd party games such as:
Godfall
Deathloop
Dirt 5
NBA 2K21
Destiny 2
Avengers

and many more to come! In fact, there hasn't been a single game yet confirmed to be displaying less than a native 4K image!

Stop it with the ill-informed FUD you are trying to spread!

Errr, not sure all those have been confirmed as 60 fps, have they?

I thought it was just GT7, Spider-Man, Sackboy, Astrobot, Godfall, and Deathloop.

And Sackboy and Astrobot aren't 4k either, according to Digital Foundry.

 

[Barakov]

Moore's Law Is Dead is a YouTuber who talks about video-game technology and purports to receive exclusive information about impending products from industry insiders. In his latest video, which is embedded below, he claims to have received a scoop about the PlayStation 5 and the most recent Xbox game show (July 23rd) months ago but has kept it to himself since then because it was initially unbelievable. He says that the reason that he is revealing it now is that it has recently been proven partially true; supposedly, the scoop revealed - months ago - that the most recent Xbox game show would announce Fable 4 and that it wouldn't reveal the price and release date of the Xbox Series X, both of which are accurate. Hence, he claims that the information in the scoop pertaining to the PlayStation 5 must be true; it is as follows:

1. The PlayStation 5's Geometry Engine will be included in the micro-architecture that will be RDNA3 and that it implements a variant of Variable Rate Shading that runs circles around the Xbox Series X. Its ability to draw polygons will be difficult for the Xbox Series X to compete with.

2. The polygonal rendering of the Geometry Engine will take about a year for third-party developers to master but that Sony's first-party developers have already mastered it, which is why Horizon Forbidden West will actually look as good during gameplay as it does in the in-engine trailer that was revealed during the PlayStation 5 game show last month.

3. The PlayStation 5's ray tracing capabilities are much more customized and subsequently better than they have been revealed to be.

4. The yields of the PlayStation 5's APU at Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company have been better than expected, which has resulted in a sufficient percentage of them having 38 functional CUs on the GPU. Hence, Sony may bump up the official specs of the PlayStation 5 to include 38 active CUs on the GPU rather than the previously announced 36.

5. The PlayStation 5's memory chips may be upgraded from 16 gigabits per second to 18 gigabits per second.

6. The PlayStation 5's CPU frequency may be bumped up by 100Mhz.

7. Sony will be announcing God of War 2 (or 5, depending on how you look at it) in August via a very graphically impressive gameplay demonstration ("jaw dropping graphics that approach photo realism").

8. A reboot of a mystery franchise: "a mainstay of PlayStation, one that used to be a bigger, tent-pole franchise and Mark Cerny is working on it."

This smells like bull---OH, God of War 2?

 

[Calverz]

Gabe newell said the x is better and id believe him over a youtuber.
I go bullshit on this one.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

Lol none of them were 4k60. Few of them got performance mode but not native 4k60

rdna3 ? how come ps5 struggles to hit 4k native

 

[saintjules]

New video

 

[Texas Pride]

Wasn't there a rumored SOCOM: Coalition a couple E3's back that never announced or am I misremembering?

 

[TheTurboFD]

This smells like bull---OH, God of War 2?

The only rumor on the list that I care about. I couldn't give a shit about the rest.

 

[mitchman]

rdna3 ? how come ps5 struggles to hit 4k native

Your trolling is 1440p/10fps.

 

[TJC]

Gabe newell said the x is better and id believe him over a youtuber.
I go bullshit on this one.

I believe my eyes and what I've seen so far from Sony looks better imo.

 

[Piku_Ringo]

why do people here and on the other site always put their full faith in "insiders" when theyve nothing buy hype up bullshit and turds the past 7 months?

It's just the typical insiders are fighting for insiders bullshit

 

[Dave_at_Home]

Moore's Law is Dead, keeps talking about PS5's geometry engine as possible being RDNA3. Why? PSVR2. The geometry engine is more than likely capable of fovated rendering. This rendering technique is goes hand-in-hand with gaze tracking, which, obviously, tracks your eye movement while in VR. What's the benefit? You obviously don't have as sharp of vision on your outer peripheral compared to what you're actually focusing on. With gaze tracking, every time you look somewhere else while in VR the tracking follows your eye movement and immediately culls detail through fovated rendering (like VRS on steroids?). This is why Sony went with their own custom geometry engine. They need things like VRS and mesh shading to be accelerated right now considering how often you'll be shifting your vision. I've said this a bunch of times now, so could be wrong, but it seems logical.

 

[dead monkey uk]

Moore's Law is Dead, keeps talking about PS5's geometry engine as possible being RDNA3. Why? PSVR2. The geometry engine is more than likely capable of fovated rendering. This rendering technique is goes hand-in-hand with gaze tracking, which, obviously, tracks your eye movement while in VR. What's the benefit? You obviously don't have as sharp of vision on your outer peripheral compared to what you're actually focusing on. With gaze tracking, every time you look somewhere else while in VR the tracking follows your eye movement and immediately culls detail through fovated rendering (like VRS on steroids?). This is why Sony went with their own custom geometry engine. They need things like VRS and mesh shading to be accelerated right now considering how often you'll be shifting your vision. I've said this a bunch of times now, so could be wrong, but it seems logical.

I think it’s important to highlight that the PS5 has features (geometry engine) that have been developed between Sony and AMD that will appear in RDNA3. Not that the PS5 will have features taken from RDNA3.

Sony and AMD did something similar with the PS4 Pro.

 

[Knitted Knight]

So... the secret sauce is real?

 

[Dave_at_Home]

I think it’s important to highlight that the PS5 has features (geometry engine) that have been developed between Sony and AMD that will appear in RDNA3. Not that the PS5 will have features taken from RDNA3.

Sony and AMD did something similar with the PS4 Pro.

True. If anything, AMD will be taking from Sony on this one. If it's true of course.

 

[NullZ3r0]

This is 13 TFLOPS all over again. You fanboys...