yeah I think the ram is a bigger deal than the gpu, I mean 4 tf targeting 1080p should be okay since it is going to be pushing 1/4 the pixels of the 12tf xsx and 1/16 the pixels of what I assume 3090 owners are going to aim for (I think it'd be a bit odd to spend 1.5k on a video card and be like, yeah my 80 dollar 19 inch tv is good enough), if the intention for the xss is 4k, then I think the that's gonna be a bad time. but 6 gb less ram is going to be bad news
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So we have a 30TF GPU now. Do you still think it's a good idea to launch a 4TF "NG"-console alongside in 2020?
- Thread starter DemonCleaner
- Start date
Agnostic2020
Member
Are you insane?
Boneyblaff
Member
I wouldn't say it's a bad idea, it's just how most consumer products are. If there's a chance to increase not only market share, but mind share, a company is going to try and capitalize on that. Sony had the multiple PS3 SKU's at launch(HDD Size), and now Microsoft is trying their hand at it on the performance side.
Craig of War
Banned
30TF 8k 240fps baby if you want true power
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Yes, it is smart, because a console with the new hardware would cost nowhere near the 399 or 499 price tag the consoles has.
Anything higher price, and you could just buy a pc where you can play both pc, Xbox and Playstation exclusives the way you want.
Anything higher price, and you could just buy a pc where you can play both pc, Xbox and Playstation exclusives the way you want.
the_master
Member
If they have the same cpu and they only scale resolution and lod then it could be ok, but I'd rather not
Phrixotrichus
Banned
700.... Not 1500. So about 200 more than the console for 3x the performance.... Jokes on you, really.
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Rudius
Member
70-80% increase in the games they selected. We need to see more complete benchmarks.
The Pleasure
Member
nah I don't want any of that early access shit that locks up my computer when playing their games. Plus I don't like Monster energy drinks.
Rudius
Member
Judging by the 3080 performance, that "20" TFlop 3070 won't be anywhere near 2x the power of a 10 TFlop PS5.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
So how many TFs is the 3090?
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
7.5x vs 3x
Stuart360
Member
Exactly, both are heavily outclassed.
BlueXImpulse
Banned
3x? The 3080 is only 80 percent more powerful than the 2080. At best the 3080 is 2x the PS5. That's the difference between 30fps and 60fps and nothing more at the same settings which is what you expect from PCs in the first place. Don't flatter him.
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Krisprolls
Banned
You look confused. If 30 tflops meant that much here, it would be even worse for XSX than for PS5 since Teraflops was basically all that XSX had for it, while PS5 actually has good exclusives even at launch. It was all MS marketing campaign after all.
But for one, console gaming is about something else. Big budget exclusives you can't play elsewhere (dev talent and budget often do more than "teraflops" to make a great game). Comfort. Plug and Play.
And 30 Tflops in another architecture doesn't mean a lot, in real world it's a lot less according to comparisons between Geforce 3000 and 2000 Series.
People need to stop with teraflops, or AMD will tell you its next card is 100 Teraflops with another architecture, and you'll believe it too. "Teraflops" doesn't mean much. It's a peak theorical max operations per seconds. Tons other parameters mitigate that.
For example, PS5 has a lot of custom I/O hardware that no PC has. It's not in "teraflops" but it will matter a lot at the end of the day.
PS3 had a lot more "teraflops" than Xbox 360 but for a long time, multiplatform games ran a lot better on Xbox 360. Go figure.
And if consoles were that underpowered, you wouldn't get such a poor PC Horizon port even after all those years. All that while base PS4 was 1.84 Tflops and PS4 Pro was 4.2 Tflops.
Dedicated hardware vs general purpose computer. Low level APIs vs higher level abstraction layers... Dedicated engineers vs brute forcing bad ports. Apples and oranges.
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Krisprolls
Banned
The truth is outside of the most hardcore fans, it will be harder and harder to justify paying that much money for a new GPU, simply because of diminishing returns.
When every big console game will now be 4K/60 (which is more than good enough), what do you gain by going PC for all that money ? The difference with a better reconstructed 4K you barely differentiate with naked eyes ? The small difference between 60 and 120 fps (I know, I've got a 144 Hz screen on my good PC) ? Not much ultimately...
Even all the big PS4 Pro games had performance modes I had trouble differentiate with PC games...
And you loose every big budget console exclusive (God of War next entry, Naughty Dog games, Spiderman, tons more...) PLUS you have to wait for months or even years for every timed exclusive secured on consoles (Rockstar games and so on...). On top of all the money you lost. Plus, you get a lot more cheaters in online games.
That's a lot of things you lose for not much you gain actually. Diminishing returns is slowly killing the need for $2000+ PC. The console versions will more and more look exactly the same as on PC. Ultimately streaming may also kill both console and PC gaming actually, because it's just even easier to play that way.
I love my PC, but for PC exclusives (PS5/PC is a great combo), PS5 will be for all the other games. I won't update my 1070 PC for years, I'd need a $200 card for it to make sense.
When every big console game will now be 4K/60 (which is more than good enough), what do you gain by going PC for all that money ? The difference with a better reconstructed 4K you barely differentiate with naked eyes ? The small difference between 60 and 120 fps (I know, I've got a 144 Hz screen on my good PC) ? Not much ultimately...
Even all the big PS4 Pro games had performance modes I had trouble differentiate with PC games...
And you loose every big budget console exclusive (God of War next entry, Naughty Dog games, Spiderman, tons more...) PLUS you have to wait for months or even years for every timed exclusive secured on consoles (Rockstar games and so on...). On top of all the money you lost. Plus, you get a lot more cheaters in online games.
That's a lot of things you lose for not much you gain actually. Diminishing returns is slowly killing the need for $2000+ PC. The console versions will more and more look exactly the same as on PC. Ultimately streaming may also kill both console and PC gaming actually, because it's just even easier to play that way.
I love my PC, but for PC exclusives (PS5/PC is a great combo), PS5 will be for all the other games. I won't update my 1070 PC for years, I'd need a $200 card for it to make sense.
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Stuart360
Member
PS3's gpu was actually lower flops wise than 360. Its cpu was better, on paper, but cpu's arent calculated in flops.
And yeah we do get the odd dodgy port on PC, it happens. You really shouldnt be ignoring all the great PC ports (like Death Stranding for example, on the same engine) and focus on the dodgy port. Especially as it was Sony/GG who went cheap with the port and hired a studio that had done dodgy ports in the past.
Craig of War
Banned
36TF in the 3090
Walter Matthau
Member
I don’t get it. It’s almost like there is a thing that people have in varying amounts that they exchange for goods.
Agnostic2020
Member
Show us proof that is 9.2 ? And u better not show github from 2019 with RDNA 1 tests . I m waiting
Krisprolls
Banned
PS3 had more teraflops, PS3 cell was making most of the work, Nvidia RSX was pretty poor. And of course you can use Tflops for CPU too... My point perfectly stands. Teraflops are meaningless to compare 2 different architectures.
Even if you take the better DS port, it doesn't look that much better than PS4 Pro version. It's pretty close. The PS4 Pro version already looks superb. That's my point in the second post. Diminishing returns render gaming PC kinda useless outside of PC exclusives and mods (which isn't bad, depending on your tastes).
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hououinkyouma00
Member
TF only matter when it aligns with whoever's agenda, and then don't matter when the tables have turned.
Was being sarcastic. 4, 10.3 or 12 TF, it's doesn't matter, it's far away from 30 TF. So I don't get why Lochkart is targeted when all consoles are destroyed TFwise...
GHG
Member
Because it's about where the baseline sits.
The lowest powered console in a given generation tends to dictate where that baseline sits. There's a huge delta between 4tf and 10tf.
MasterCornholio
Member
When the gap is that big probably. Especially with the tensor cores.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Where do you get those numbers if I may ask, because truth is, that for VRAM you need fraction for 1080p framebuffer in comparison to the XSX 4K... I am not disagreeing with you, memory should stay the same, but I don't know, on XSS is probably going to play DLSS-like technology a lot more than on XSX....
VideodromeX
Member
30 tf gpu cost 699, 36 tf cost 1499.
So you believe that the 4TF consoles will bring the PS5 and Series X lower ? I don't get it. We have a wide range of gaps in GPU on PC. Can't we compare Lockhart to a GTX 1080 gpu wise ? Far from the 3080, but still decent.
And what about the gap between 12 and 30 TF isn't that huge as well ? Just look at the reactions, everybody is flabbergasted by the gap. Lockhart was the last thing on my mind when I saw Ampere specs...
midasmulligan
Member
No surprise necessaryI'd be surprised if no one makes a "With 30 TF GPUs, are PS5 and XSX already outdated?"...
Nvidia held back tech for the last 5 years. Just made PS5 and Series X outdated
Seeing TLOU part 2 on those weak and old jaguars I'm sure I will be happy with my outdated ps5 :messenger_weary:
SF Kosmo
Al Jazeera Special Reporter
The 30GB one is the $700 sku. The $1500 one gets you 36TFlops
NoviDon
Member
Are there any AAA exclusives designed specifically to take advantage of 30tf of GPU power? Will there be even one game like that at ANY time in the generation? So why would I save up over 2 grand for that? Multiplatform games with 8k and 60fps, and with cranked up effects isn't worth the sticker shock to me.
GHG
Member
It's the PC baseline I'm talking about.
If the mass market can get away with having 4TF GPUs for too long then that means the prices of the higher powered parts wont come down as quickly due to the lack of demand for advancement and innovation. That's why we typically see the graphics cards that coincide with the final couple of years of a console generation being a piss take, both in terms of prices and in terms of performance increases (see the RTX 2XXX series). The demand for mid and higher end parts dries up as no AAA console ports are pushing the boundaries anymore, they are designed around hardware that PC gamers already had years ago. Going from 90fps to 105 fps makes no difference for most people and is not a reason to upgrade.
If the baseline is 10tf (which will be around where the 3060 will sit) then it means the 3060 will be a card in high demand. That will be recognised and then for the 4XXX series of cards Nvidia will have a huge incentive to create a low end 4050 that is 10tf and very affordable. The pricing and perfomance level has a direct impact on the rest of the 4XXX series lineup. The 4060 needs to be significantly better than 10TF, so on and so on. Everyone wins.
If 4TF is the baseline it will lead to both Nvidia and AMD taking the piss as the generation goes on. They already have cards that hit that performance benchmark at reasonable prices, they will simply keep on recycling those cards and the mid/high end of the market will suffer for pretty much a whole generation.
If you watch the Nvidia event from today, they make several references that make it clear they are putting these cards up against next gen consoles. IMO that is where the motivation for pricing the 3070 has come from at the moment. They want to make it clear you can have better than next gen console performance for under $500.
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NoviDon
Member
What about the mobo, and ram, and CPU, and power supply, and os software, and cooling supply, and case, and monitor, and kb+m. Add that to the price.
