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[mansoor1980]

Not as afraid as PS5 owners seeing this:

That 45% upgrade won't help...

how does the PC version of DD2 run , any benchmarks? im curious

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

for it to backfire, dragon dogma 2 needs to fail in sales for its performance . it wont happen. it is not exclusive to console userbase either. elden ring had absurdly bad performance on PC at launch yet it was a great game, so it got extremely positive reviews on Steam

hogwarts legacy is another case. that game is literally uncompliant with 16 gb ram which is probably more than half the game's players. Most of my friends had 16 gb ram while playing that game, I asked them "guys, don't you have problems in hogsmeade" they reply "i dont care, lmao game is mad fun". friend streams his game on Discord, in hogwarts, game stutters every 5 seconds due to extreme data swapping with 16 GB RAM. and here he is, putting 50 hrs to the game, %100'ing it, leaving a positive review, and saying "what a great game, our dreams of visiting hogwarts in a game has been finally fulfilled!"

in a world where devs can get away with extremely stuttery experiences on PC, they will get away with rocky 30 fps on consoles lol

my casual friend who was playing in baldur's gate 3 with a ryzen 2600 and I ask her "how goes it in act 3, I heard it is rough there" she replies "idk what is wrong it, I'm playing the game the 3rd time". when people have fun, they can even see past <30 fps, stutters and all that stuff. and they're sadly the majority of the people who actually buy these games. we're just an echo chamber. we should even be glad that they at least had the decency of putting a zen 2 CPU there. nothing stopped them from putting a 3 ghz zen cpu there

Sadly you are most definitely correct

 

[Kacho]

how does the PC version of DD2 run , any benchmarks? im curious

Tomorrow morning we’ll know when the embargo lifts

 

[Neo_game]

they will be happy because at least they're not being forced to optimize extreme CPU bound code to hit 30 fps on 1.6 ghz jaguar cores

but they will have no trouble targeting the very same 30 fps on zen 2 cores as well. which is why some people are getting worked up. if ps5 pro focused on CPU upgrade while keeping GPU more or less similar or with slight upgrade + big upgrade on upscaling, it would've been better for high framerate enjoyers

I don't think that is true at all. Most likely fast paced games will be 60fps on base PS5. Obviously CPU bound games will not gain much from 10% boost. But GPU is and will always be the most important factor in games. If PSSR turns out to be good, Pro will likely meet the expectation, which I think are not too high anyways.

 

[Mr Moose]

Tomorrow morning we’ll know when the embargo lifts

Oh shit, it's out in 3 days

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Tomorrow morning we’ll know when the embargo lifts

It's going to run like ass across the board. Games like this aren't solved by Pro consoles or Master Race PCs

Ass is Ass, my friend. And it will always be Ass. You can't brute force your way out of it

 

[Belthazar]

I don't think that is true at all. Most likely fast paced games will be 60fps on base PS5. Obviously CPU bound games will not gain much from 10% boost. But GPU is and will always be the most important factor in games. If PSSR turns out to be good, Pro will likely meet the expectation, which I think are not too high anyways.

I really don't get the concern trolling over the CPU upgrade being too small... CPU bound games are very few and far between.

 

[Wooxsvan]

Not as afraid as PS5 owners seeing this:

That 45% upgrade won't help...

well, unpatched id say definitely not, but if they use PSSR as well, i think it will help quite a bit. now if this particular section is purely CPU bottleneck then of course not.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

not everything is being reduced to the internal render resolution with upscalers. certain things stay at native resolution which is why dlss/fsr (or pssr in this case) performance benefit is not a a fixed value between games. no need to chase after runtime costs. runtime costs are not that heavy. this is why certain people do not understand why a game that hits native 4k 30 fps may not be able to hit 60 fps with ultra performance mode (720p internal)

here's a experiment that may teach you about how upscalers function and how differently they behave depending on the game and context and HOW MUCH output resolution matters for the performance in the end for certain games

tests are done 3070 locked at 100w to ensure no cpu limitation gets in the way (emulating a 2060 super)

rdr 2

Imgsli

native 4k 26 FPS
native 1440p 41 FPS
native 1080p 54 FPS
1080p dlss quality 65 FPS

4k dlss quality (internal 1440p) 33 FPS
4k dlss performance (internal 1080p) 40 FPS
4k dlss ultra performance (internal 720p) 46 FPS

as you can see, 4K DLSS ultra performance is more costly than running the game at native 1080p
and running the game 4k dlss performance is more costly than running the game at native 1440p
you can also see native 1080p and 4k dlss performance has a massive %25 performance cost between them in this specific title

also you can see here, in RDR 2, you need 1080p/upscaling to hit 60 FPS in this scenario despite being able to get 4k/26 FPS.
meanwhile in cyberpunk, it scales differently;

Imgsli

native 4k 20 FPS
native 1440p 41 FPS
native 1080p 70 FPS
1440p dlss quality 68 FPS

4k dlss quality (internal 1440p) 34 FPS
4k dlss performance (internal 1080p) 50 FPS
4k dlss ultra performance (internal 720p) 70 FPS
In these examples, you can see that 4K DLSS performance gives a solid 2.5x performance multiplier in Cyberpunk while only giving a mere 1.5x multiplier in RDR 2.

There are games that will scale and behave differently because each developer will implement upscalers differently. And Cyberpunk is the best case scenario while RDR2 is the worst case scenario as performance scaling is concerned.

We can see that in Cyberpunk, game scales well with both output and internal resolution. We still see a massive %30 performance difference between native 1080p and 4K DLSS performance which operates at the same resolution technically.

Even in the best case scenario, 4K DLSS ultra performance in Cyberpunk at 720p internal performs like native 1080p

This is why some people do not understand why some games use extremely low internal resolutions despite being able to hit 4K 30 FPS. In RDR 2, GPU is capable of 4K 26-30 FPS. But to hit 60 FPS reliably, you need 1080p dlss quality. even 4k dlss ultra performance still gets you to 46 FPS there which is far cry from hitting 60. You need the output resolution reduction in RDR 2 to even have a chance at 60 FPS (with 100w limit of course, the 3070 turns into a 2060 super, as such)

Yup one of the reasons for this is usually post-processing. reconstruction tech works funny, in that there is actually a load of IQ work applied to the image after DLSS/PSSR would have made its pass on what would now be the final out resolution. The more of the final image you have in the native render pass, the more of a performance boost you will see.

Typically, I would be filled with dread on how devs would abuse this on the PS5pro. But thankfully, we have the PS5, which means they still have to at least have a version of their game running decently on that SKU. If this feature was something present from launch day, we would be seeing devs struggle to get native 1080p running at 30fps on these consoles today. Devs would always follow the path of least resistance lol.

 

[Kacho]

It's going to run like ass across the board. Games like this aren't solved by Pro consoles or Master Race PCs

Ass is Ass, my friend. And it will always be Ass. You can't brute force your way out of it

 

[Clear]

That DF video is infuriating.
They totally miss the point that the key thing about a "Pro" console is that its always going to be secondary to the standard SKU because it can never match or exceed its user-base.

It will never get software published exclusively on it.

It will never have software that requires its capabilities above that of the base model.

Its main selling point is that its a more performant PS5.

To achieve this product goal they need to make its benefits demonstrably obvious. As much of their content library as possible needs to be enhanced when run on it, which means by extension taking advantage of its features need to be cost-effective for developers.

This is a huge consideration because as I started by saying, its all about the relative install bases size! Its a no-brainer to primarily target the one you stand to shift the most units on.

Yes, there's a favourable aspect promotionally in being able to show your product off to its best advantage using footage/images generated by the high-tier platform, but if the standard/low-tier version develops a rep for being severely compromised... its going to hurt sales.

Essentially what we're looking at as the Playstation 5 Series X.

The only difference is the way the product's been rolled out compared to the simultaneous launch of the S and X duo. By delaying it till midway through the cycle its just perceived differently by the public and development community alike.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

More like under 1000$

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TfNJZJ

Pro won't be 500$...

Hold on.... You think a 1000.00$ rig is strong enough to run games like HFW and GOT later this year? At 4k60 like the ps5?

We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Gaiff]

It's going to run like ass across the board. Games like this aren't solved by Pro consoles or Master Race PCs

Ass is Ass, my friend. And it will always be Ass. You can't brute force your way out of it

You often can. If there are stutters, however, good luck.

 

[yamaci17]

this is how a mediocre 6700xt 10400f rig performed in jedi survivor while ps5 was choking itself trying to ray tracing with the zen 2 CPU

dragon dogma 2 will be similar. people will disable ray tracing, most will get 40-70 FPS and move on

solution PC was simple: disabling ray tracing. it took months for developers to come up with that solution for consoles. lol. just don't do ray tracing if the cpu can't handle it. pc folks are smart and will disable ray tracing if it causes the game to run at a rocky 30 fps, simple as that

 

[Kacho]

this is how a mediocre 6700xt 10400f rig performed in jedi survivor while ps5 was choking itself trying to ray tracing with the zen 2 CPU

dragon dogma 2 will be similar. people will disable ray tracing, most will get 40-70 FPS and move on

solution PC was simple: disabling ray tracing. it took months for developers to come up with that solution for consoles. lol. just don't do ray tracing if the cpu can't handle it. pc folks are smart and will disable ray tracing if it causes the game to run at a rocky 30 fps, simple as that

I don’t use AMD hardware.

 

[yamaci17]

I don’t use AMD hardware.

point still stands. if you have a decent cpu (12400f and upwards) you will also get decent framerate with ray tracing. anything else will have to disable ray tracing

chances are if you have something more than 3080 that can handle the ray tracing in these games, you will have a decent CPU that can accompany it

problem is, ps5's gpu or cpu can't handle ray tracing and both struggled big time in jedi survivor. it clearly is the same case with dragon dogma. i maybe proven wrong. we will see tomorrow. but most people will post benchmarks without ray tracing on midrange hardware. no one with a ryzen 3600 or 10400f should try to run dragon dogma 2 with ray tracing. clearly these CPUs cant handle it in this game at its current state

 

[Gaiff]

Hold on.... You think a 1000.00$ rig is strong enough to run games like HFW and GOT later this year? At 4k60 like the ps5?

We'll just have to wait and see.

With upscaling, why not?

 

[paolo11]

Yes and no. The PS5pro can do either of those two of three possible things.

1. It can improve IQ of performance mode by either, increasing rez to say 1440p, or by rendering it at 1080p, then using PSSR to reconstruct it to 4K. While maybe fixing most of the geometry or draw distance concessions were made to get 60fps to work.
2. In a situation where all you have is one mode, usually a quality mode in a game that is CPU bottlenecked, it can increase IQ and maybe get the game running to up to 40fps. The 40fps should be possible because even in a CPU bottlenecked game running at 30fps, the game engine would have to be able to accommodate a higher average internal framerate.
3. And finally, it can significantly increase performance across the board and IQ, where they would take the quality mode, and drop its rez to like 1440p, then use PSSR to take that back to 4K and up the framerate from 30fps to anywhere between 40-60fps. While at the same time doing (1) for the performance mode and getting that to well above 60fps.

Will this work on unpatched games or do the games have to be patched for ps5 pro? I just the ff7 trilogy to have very nice IQ on performance mode. (And FF16 too if possible

 

[yamaci17]

Will this work on unpatched games or do the games have to be patched for ps5 pro? I just the ff7 trilogy to have very nice IQ on performance mode. (And FF16 too if possible

on PC, people have created mods that could create bridges between FSR and DLSS. People were literally able to replace a DLSS implementation with FSR 2 so that people without DLSS capable cards were able to play those games with FSR 2 upscaling despite FSR 2 was not added to them yet. and vice versa, you could inject DLSS in a game that supported FSR 2 (starfield only launched with fsr 2 and it took mere minutes for someone to come up with the FSR to DLSS mod).

Within API boundaries, I could totally see a way for sony to somehow inject/replace temporal upscalers with PSSR. But I will say it will probably be limited to their 1st party games and will be provided as soft updates (like how they updated last of us part 2 with 60 fps on ps5)

 

[Kacho]

point still stands. if you have a decent cpu (12400f and upwards) you will also get decent framerate with ray tracing. anything else will have to disable ray tracing

chances are if you have something more than 3080 that can handle the ray tracing in these games, you will have a decent CPU that can accompany it

problem is, ps5's gpu or cpu can't handle ray tracing and both struggled big time in jedi survivor. it clearly is the same case with dragon dogma.

I have a 4070ti and disable ray tracing on everything because I’m terrified of potential performance issues. Blows my mind that devs force it in games on console. Didn’t they remove ray tracing from Jedi Survivor on console leading to huge performance gains?

 

[Bojji]

at some point I also feel bad about ps5 userbase actually. it seems like a scam, PSSR will allow insanely better image quality output than fsr 2 if it can fit somewhere between xess and dlss. so it means that ps5 pro will be able to have better quality per pixel (the argument that i've been using for dlss for a while now) my friend who bought ps5 as his first console is actually fuming if pssr does not end up on ps5 (and most likely won't...)

while %45 upgrade won't help that much, we can say that perceived image quality will probably see a huge upgrade. this never happened between ps4 and ps4 pro, ps4 pro just had fancy checkerboard but it was to make 4k workable. pssr on ps5 pro and fsr 2 on ps5 will create a weird situation. ps4 still forced developers to optimize competent TAA for it so that ps4 pro can checkerboard its way in. now most devs will slap fsr 2 + pssr on respective consoles and we will have this weird disparity we're having on pc between amd and nvidia cards

i'm glad even people who paid 300 bucks for a 2060 back in 2018 do not have these kind of issues though.

pssr should've been there on ps5, supported by hardware at launch. it is interesting really. it seems like ps5 was not designed with future proof upscaling in mind. it is definitely not a worthy successor to the PS4 imo.

Yeah I'm hugely disappointed with IQ in PS5 games, I hoped for CB 4K in most games (looks great in GOW and HZD) but looks like most developers can't achieve that in performance modes. FSR2 with low base resolution looks like trash...

PS5 owners will have to live with that shit image quality or 30FPS framerate, I will upgrade to Pro for sure.

well, unpatched id say definitely not, but if they use PSSR as well, i think it will help quite a bit. now if this particular section is purely CPU bottleneck then of course not.

You need more than 100% more power to bring this game to 60, even if it's purely GPU limit I don't think it is possible.

Hold on.... You think a 1000.00$ rig is strong enough to run games like HFW and GOT later this year? At 4k60 like the ps5?

We'll just have to wait and see.

This PC has GPU close in power to the one in PS5 Pro so it won't have any problem running GoT in 4k 60FPS - PS5 version uses CB so it's 50% of 4K. Horizon won't be 4K 60FPS but it will be closer to it than PS5, console version is 4K 30FPS (or below 1440p dynamic res in 60fps mode).

 

[yamaci17]

I have a 4070ti and disable ray tracing on everything because I’m terrified of potential performance issues. Blows my mind that devs force it in games on console. Didn’t they remove ray tracing from Jedi Survivor on console leading to huge performance gains?

yes which is what I'm talking about actually drama about dragon dogma 2 would've been avoided if devs simply decided against forcing ray tracing. I'm sure it is ray tracing. they should have their own internal reasons for doing that. jedi developers probably thought forcing horrible cpu performance alongside with ray tracing was justified because SSR in the game was atrocious and unoptimized. but they reversed their decision in the end and removed ray tracing from performance mode while improving the SSR and lighting effects that were broken without ray tracing

I've come to believe dragon dogma 2 will heavily rely on ray tracing to overcome graphical artifacts. they must also think ray tracing makes their game "next gen" or something. no idea about the obsession. at this point im sure they've abused ray tracing just to create shortcuts into releasing the game sooner.

funny thing is though, the artifacts they're scared off, most people won't care. most people on pc didn't care about ssr artifacts in jedi survivor for example.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

at some point I also feel bad about ps5 userbase actually. it seems like a scam, PSSR will allow insanely better image quality output than fsr 2 if it can fit somewhere between xess and dlss. so it means that ps5 pro will be able to have better quality per pixel (the argument that i've been using for dlss for a while now) my friend who bought ps5 as his first console is actually fuming if pssr does not end up on ps5 (and most likely won't...)

while %45 upgrade won't help that much, we can say that perceived image quality will probably see a huge upgrade. this never happened between ps4 and ps4 pro, ps4 pro just had fancy checkerboard but it was to make 4k workable. pssr on ps5 pro and fsr 2 on ps5 will create a weird situation. ps4 still forced developers to optimize competent TAA for it so that ps4 pro can checkerboard its way in. now most devs will slap fsr 2 + pssr on respective consoles and we will have this weird disparity we're having on pc between amd and nvidia cards

i'm glad even people who paid 300 bucks for a 2060 back in 2018 do not have these kind of issues though.

pssr should've been there on ps5, supported by hardware at launch. it is interesting really. it seems like ps5 was not designed with future proof upscaling in mind. it is definitely not a worthy successor to the PS4 imo.

It's so crazy to see someone say PS5 I'd not a worthy successor to PS4 because on paper it looks like it is. I mean, this is the first time in forever that a console had a good CPU- that combined with all the promises of the SSD/io and knowing UE5 was on its way made myself and a lot of others feel pretty good heading into this generation.

Sadly I agree with you though. The proof is in the pudding. Look though at the way things have turned out: no real next gen graphics and 3 years of both consoles struggling to do 60 fps at good settings and resolutions. The Last year now has also been marked by bad image quality to the point where its clear a Pro console is needed. To which Sony agree.

I think now it's clear that Sony made an very unbalanced console, by focusing on the SSD instead of upscaling and a more powerful GPU. Here is where I believe console gaming is a scam this generation- the SSD/Io has been totally underused and Sony hasn't done much to improve their first party engines to utilize it.

Sony and MS have gotten away without delivering a next gen leap for the first time in console history because console gamers have such low standards and flat out defend these companies. You factor in higher game prices, how we're still forced to pay a yearly fee just to be able to play online (for games we've already paid $70 for), and the disgusting return policies and it really does feel like console gamers are just kind of abused.

 

[Kacho]

they must also think ray tracing makes their game "next gen" or something

I’d have to compare the before and after in person to truly see the difference, but based of the PS5 footage I’ve seen it doesn’t look very transformative. My guess is the game looks even more blown out without ray tracing.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Will this work on unpatched games or do the games have to be patched for ps5 pro? I just the ff7 trilogy to have very nice IQ on performance mode. (And FF16 too if possible

No. But from what has been disclosed, everything made before the ver.9 sdk will allow or support devs going in and patching in PSSR. and everything made on ver.9+ of the SDK will support the full PS5pro feature set. It should be relatively easy patching in PSSR though, but it has to be patched in to support it.

I have some questions on the whole BC stuff though, but thats another story.

 

[Fafalada]

Not as afraid as PS5 owners seeing this:
That 45% upgrade won't help...

I think it'll be interesting seeing the variances here.
For example - I recall titles that only got improvements in 60% range on PS4Pro out of the box. And only after dedicated optimisations you could get closer to that 'real' 2x delta (ie. the boost wasn't always 'free' - not even close).
Admittedly - we don't know if there's any headroom left here (could be more fundamental limitations getting hit).

Will this work on unpatched games or do the games have to be patched for ps5 pro?

Changing resolution/IQ will need patches if it's not DRS title. But the big deal is that they also allow retrofitting PSSR into older games without upgrading to new SDK, which is something PS4Pro never got. So much higher likelihood of older games on FSR2 etc. just getting that updated (think of it like the DLL swap hacks on PC to support DLSS/FSR).

 

[yamaci17]

I’d have to compare the before and after in person to truly see the difference, but based of the PS5 footage I’ve seen it doesn’t look very transformative. My guess is the game looks even more blown out without ray tracing.

this is how it was with jedi survivor (10:56) notice also cal's hair is horribly shaded for some reason. but they fixed that for rasterization alongside with patch 7

it is mostly extreme SSR artifacts. I mean SSR always had problems, it is after all a screen space effect. but I've never seen such horrible SSR before

this will be one of the funniest highlights of this generation. enforcing <25 fps cpu bound drops because they had to force ray tracing for some reason

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

yes which is what I'm talking about actually drama about dragon dogma 2 would've been avoided if devs simply decided against forcing ray tracing. I'm sure it is ray tracing. they should have their own internal reasons for doing that. jedi developers probably thought forcing horrible cpu performance alongside with ray tracing was justified because SSR in the game was atrocious and unoptimized. but they reversed their decision in the end and removed ray tracing from performance mode while improving the SSR and lighting effects that were broken without ray tracing

I've come to believe dragon dogma 2 will heavily rely on ray tracing to overcome graphical artifacts. they must also think ray tracing makes their game "next gen" or something. no idea about the obsession. at this point im sure they've abused ray tracing just to create shortcuts into releasing the game sooner.

funny thing is though, the artifacts they're scared off, most people won't care. most people on pc didn't care about ssr artifacts in jedi survivor for example.

Marketing buzzword and it may make dev slightly easier ..

I can't believe devs are still getting away with only releasing ONE mode for a game in 2024 ...esp when it runs so badly. Why isn't there a non rt mode? It's bizarre to me.

 

[Frwrd]

I think it's a great kicking off point for the new PSSSR upscaling

 

[yamaci17]

Marketing buzzword and it may make dev slightly easier ..

I can't believe devs are still getting away with only releasing ONE mode for a game in 2024 ...esp when it runs so badly. Why isn't there a non rt mode? It's bizarre to me.

i don't really know but as I said, jedi survivor at launch on PC was mostly fine as long as you disabled ray tracing and if you had a crappy CPU. Source: me and my 2700x. No ray tracing ? game performs okay. yeah you get the usual PC asset loading stutters. but game mostly is stable and gets high framerates almost everywhere, Koboh included (45+ fps most of the time). ray tracing on? brutal <30 fps drops, rocky 30 fps most of the time etc.

i played it with ea play pro, if it hits base ea play, I will do some tests to showcase the stark difference of what ray tracing does in that game. It almost feels like they rushed ray tracing (a technology that they relied on to rush the game itself). dragon dogma 2 appears to be doing the same. it is funny

i'm sure tomorrow people with ryzen 3600s will disable ray tracing, get 40-60 fps stable, and happily game away while people on console will fume because game cannot hold a stable 30 FPS.

 

[Ovech-King]

The super sampling solution is the main thing to look forward here. If this thing can run everything internal at 1080p 60fps and upscale at a pristine 4K , with that kind of hardware you will have gorgeous games with no resolution OR fps comprises. That's golden

 

[LavitzSlambert]

In terms of the 'why', this is still something of a mystery. PS4 Pro launched to cater for the arrival of 4K screens, but while PS5 Pro aims to target 8K resolution via PSSR, this is currently still in development at Sony. And some might say that it's not worth the effort bearing in mind the lack of take-up of 8K displays in the market. On a personal note, I've moved from an 8K 75-inch LCD display to a 4K 77-inch OLED - and I don't regret the 'downgrade' at all. Even with large screens, 4K is still more than enough.

. Cutting-edge rendering with higher resolution, improved performance, better image quality and more advanced RT would see PS5 Pro improve this game significantly.
Could the PS5 Pro instead be targeting the needs of the gamer more attracted to a higher-performing PC set-up? Possibly, but there's one big problem here: sticking with the Zen 2 CPU architecture means that meaningful frame-rate upgrades in games can only apply to titles which are limited by the GPU, not the CPU. Today's mainstream CPUs blow console-spec Zen 2 out of the water. Meanwhile, the RT and machine learning features in PS5 Pro are already present in today's Nvidia GeForce GPUs - and have been for years. These PCs will still be more expensive than the PS5 Pro in totality, but ultimately, I still feel that the Pro is aimed at the more discerning gamer in the lounge.
Higher frame-rates, substantially enhanced image quality and improved RT features - that's what's going to separate PS5 Pro from the standard model. Assuming there are no further surprises lying in wait, I'd venture to suggest that this is going to be a more niche offering than PS4 Pro back in the day. Some might even say it's a 'Digital Foundry machine', as its forward-looking design delivers the kind of features we like and want to see in a games console. And for many, just having the most performant console will be enough. It's difficult to see anything else competing with this until the next generation of hardware arrives.
With that said, PS5 Pro also emphasises the direction of travel for the future of gaming technology. Nvidia started it all back in 2018 with dedicated ray tracing and machine learning silicon. Intel followed suit. Microsoft's FTC leak last year also indicated that this is the future of console hardware - and yet Sony is delivering much the same package today in 2024. More developers embracing RT and machine learning hardware sooner can only be a good thing - and I do wonder to what extent game-makers will use the ML capabilities for things other than upscaling (though the need for feature parity between PS5 and PS5 Pro may limit that).
Beyond that, there are still more questions beyond how Sony plans to market this. How does backwards compatibility work with existing PlayStation 5 titles - will they run faster? And are there further enhancements for PS4 games? Are we looking at strict compatibility or will boost mode return? Nvidia DLSS has proven the worth of machine learning-based upscaling, but just how good is Sony's solution? Just how wide of a gap will there be between PS5 and PS5 Pro titles when both are essentially targeting the same display? I remember that there were a range of questions surrounding the leaks of PS4 Pro - and a lot more came into focus when Sony made its official reveal. With that in mind, I can't wait to see what Sony has prepared for us.

​

Even the DF guys agree the Pro seems mostly pointless. But I think in reading their analysis, I may have finally figured out the reasons Sony is doing this:

1. It will be a nice real-world test of PSSR so they can get it right on PS6. Also gives a good idea of the consumer response to pushing ray tracing on consoles.

2. People expect it, and there is an audience that will buy it regardless.

3. Sony feels they need to have some level of parity in terms of experience between their console business and their PC ports. They don't want to release a PC port of their games targeting the base PS5 spec in 2025 and beyond, and they certainly don't want to release a better version of their games on PC and scare consumers away from their console business.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Even the DF guys agree the Pro seems mostly pointless.

While I agree with everything you said I highlighted this point because of course they feel that way

I just wonder how they would have felt if Xbox would have done this with these exact same specs

 

[Crayon]

Errr I don't think the cpu is what is holding back rt on a console with a small rdna2 chip.

 

[MisterXDTV]

At this point I’m waiting for Cerny’s “Road to PS5 Pro” more than the console itself

The must-watch video of the year!

 

[jshackles]

At this point I’m waiting for Cerny’s “Road to PS5 Pro” more than the console itself

The must-watch video of the year!

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

While I agree with everything you said I highlighted this point because of course they feel that way

I just wonder how they would have felt if Xbox would have done this with these exact same specs

wait, wait, wait.... what are you suggesting?

I think Alex had the correct reaction about PSSR.

 

[Ashamam]

Even the DF guys agree the Pro seems mostly pointless

Yeah they kind of lead with that, but when you watch the whole thing they can't avoid arriving at the conclusion it could make a big difference to what games look like. So they are holding two opposing positions simultaneously. Neat mental trick imo. /s

 

[ChiefDada]

how does the PC version of DD2 run , any benchmarks? im curious

There was a recent tweet NXG took down that suggested game doesn't discriminate between platforms with its questionable cpu performance.

 

[paolo11]

No. But from what has been disclosed, everything made before the ver.9 sdk will allow or support devs going in and patching in PSSR. and everything made on ver.9+ of the SDK will support the full PS5pro feature set. It should be relatively easy patching in PSSR though, but it has to be patched in to support it.

I have some questions on the whole BC stuff though, but thats another story.

How do I know which games are made before ver.9? Sorry I’m a noob

 

[blastprocessor]

I'm going to need to see the receipts before buying the Pro. Sony will need to have some impressive demo's to show off.

The CPU speed bump is very disappointing, will it hold things back like the PS4 Pro?

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I'm going to need to see the receipts before buying the Pro. Sony will need to have some impressive demo's to show off.

The CPU speed bump is very disappointing, will it hold things back like the PS4 Pro?

The pro is not meant to be a paradigm shit. games are not designed for the pro. they are designed for the base console.

 

[peish]

What happend to VRS in general on Xbox? It was all buzz so far, and didn’t do much compared to the PS5.

VRS is, i guess, silently doing its job for Xbox, improving fps stability while staying invisible to us.

VRS, more often than not, is shit. Could be useful in VR games and racing games.

Improved sound? Nice.

Were they supposed to disable a feature that comes with it ? Do not see them shouting about it from the rooftops. They have a capable suite of alternatives including pretty powerful multi resolution render targets HW support, they will be fine . Thanks for the concern though .

sony bespoke solutions always comes with a lot of buzz but turns out to be nothing above other solutions, such as vrs which sony now, as seen by DF, prouds to list down as a new ps5 pro capabilities....

 

[yamaci17]

Errr I don't think the cpu is what is holding back rt on a console with a small rdna2 chip.

ray tracing in jedi survivor is so heavy on CPU that there's a situation where ryzen 5600x becomes a bottleneck for a lowly rx 6600 without ray tracing:



9:30

now imagine rx 6600 combined with a much lower CPU, such as 3600 or in the console case, something that is even slower than 3600... I'm not saying PS5 GPU is fast for ray tracing. but it shouldn't drop below 30, especially with dynamic resolution. the fact that 5600x drops below 45 fps, no wonder ps5 cpu cannot keep up with this game's ray tracing.

exact same thing will happen with dragon dogma 2 too. it will destroy CPUs with ray tracing on PC and console alike. some developers cannot optimize ray tracing for CPU and create immense bottlenecks.

sorry that my initial video was without ray tracing. But I've managed to find one with ray tracing and still a CPU bottleneck (6:40 and so on):



rx 6600 still gets underutilizations even with a 12400f and ray tracing enabled. and koboh area should be even harder to render for CPU.

 

[Kacho]

I'm going to need to see the receipts before buying the Pro. Sony will need to have some impressive demo's to show off.

The CPU speed bump is very disappointing, will it hold things back like the PS4 Pro?

It’s just the reality of these hardware refreshes. You will see an IQ boost and games will perform slightly better. If you play on console the Pro will give you the best experience possible until the next generation, something you’ll have to pay a premium for. Whether that’s worth it to you…ymmv.

 

[lh032]

would be funny if DD2 runs like ass on PC too.
Lack of previews of PC version is very sus.

 

[DeathGuise]

It sounds like they don't like it. The CPU upgrade is negligible and the GPU upgrade is, according to them, going to be bottlenecked by it.

Maybe we'll finally be able to play Bloodborne at 30 FPS

 

[dorkimoe]

this is how it was with jedi survivor (10:56) notice also cal's hair is horribly shaded for some reason. but they fixed that for rasterization alongside with patch 7

it is mostly extreme SSR artifacts. I mean SSR always had problems, it is after all a screen space effect. but I've never seen such horrible SSR before

this will be one of the funniest highlights of this generation. enforcing <25 fps cpu bound drops because they had to force ray tracing for some reason

This game ran like fucking ass on my series x, really ruined the experience for me

 

[fersnake]

so in other words, dont buy the ps5 pro... naa im gonna wait Cerny for a 2hr presentation.

 

[playsaves3]

Pro will unlock a new level of ray tracing effects and performance on consoles and the AI upscaler will get rid of all the limits of FSR/FSR2/traditional upscaling.
Things like GT7 with real time ray tracing or FF7 Rebirth looking like quality mode at 60fps will be possible.
That's enough reasons to be excited for me.
CPU being almost the same is expected, it's a mid gen gen upgrade not a new platform, switching to new cores would increase R&D costs, time to market and create possible BC issues. Not worth it for a few CPU limited games.


Microsoft won't have a similar product this year if they had a similar product ready they would be as excited as they were for Series S, VRS, VRR, RDNA2 full feature list and all the rest of the bullshit that now is dead and buried.

CPU also affects doing more raytracing… we have been through this bullcrap before when I was saying it was a travesty the base ps5 used zen 2 instead of zen 3 its gonna be even worse here