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[ZombieSupaStar]

i don't know if smart-device gaming will kill handhelds (probably wont) but I definitely think the honeymoon is over when it comes to their era in gaming. Sony & Nintendo will have to cope accordingly, especially when it comes to software pricing.

 

[DCharlie]

"Games sell systems, not price cuts"

(sort of)

The price cut to the 3DS did -not- do -that- much on it's own - it had to be coupled with content that people wanted (which it also got)

if the content isn't there, then the Vita still has the same core problem.

 

[border]

I'm talking about more than 2 years, not year and a half. Let's talk about iPhone 4 when it's more than 2 years. And, also, assuming that you got the iPhone just the launch day (that is quite difficult), because the price is the same even if you got it the day before launching the 4S.

My 3G was already crap after 2 years. 3GS, right now, is a mess if you play Unreal games and you'll get ton of crashes if you have several apps in background (even if teorically iOS clean the memory when needed). And my iPhone 4 is already choppy with Infinity Blade 2 (even cleaning the background apps). Also, there are already games that goes slow in iPad 1 and even games that are not compatible with iPad 1.

Get sure that in a year there will be a lot of non-single core games in the appstore.

The iPhone 4 was the biggest model ever, and will probably continue to be so, with pricing at $99 with contract (and presumably the 4 will become free on all major carriers when the 5 is introduced). You'd have to be crazy to think that developers are just going to abandon that audience so quickly.

Yes, some crazy envelope-pushing games will probably tax older hardware. But handheld gaming, by and large, is not about crazy envelope-pushing games. People don't care about framerates and texture resolution. They just want quick and easy fun. The mobile market is going to develop faster because most customers are on a two year product cycle rather than a 5 year product cycle.

Yes in six years the Vita will still play newly released games. But you'll be playing them on six-year-old hardware. The horsepower behind the iPhone and iPod touch will have increased exponentially -- so games will look the best on iOS.

 

[thehypocrite]

"Games sell systems, not price cuts"

(sort of)

The price cut to the 3DS did -not- do -that- much on it's own - it had to be coupled with content that people wanted (which it also got)

if the content isn't there, then the Vita still has the same core problem.

Correct, with entertainment focused devices content is king. Sony needs to invest in the content for the Vita with all they got in regards to Games/Apps. Third party developers should be enticed to create unique content as well. This will be a difficult test for Sony and all the SCEWWS studios to prove if they can create content that can carry a console/device to success.

 

[the androgyne]

On the train this morning i saw some guy 'playing' his ipad... from what i could tell, it was a game that consisted of pressing a button to start the game and then being told if you won or lost. He was pressing that button like a madman, let me tell you! Vita really needs a killer app like that to get some casual market share!

 

[Toki767]

Yeah...I don't think it's fair to say the price cut is what saved the 3DS. I think Mario and Mario Kart are really what saved the 3DS. The price cut just happened first.

 

[Leona Lewis]

Yes in six years the Vita will still play newly released games. But you'll be playing them on six-year-old hardware. The horsepower behind the iPhone and iPod touch will have increased exponentially -- so games will look the best on iOS.

Specs won't make a difference for smartphones/tablets as long as only a few developers (ex. Epic, Rockstar, EA) bother to utilize all that extra power. iPhone 3GS (with its advanced shader support and such) is loads more powerful than the PSP and has been out since 2009, but I can count on one hand the number of iOS titles that have visually surpassed the best that PSP has to offer.

The race to the bottom app pricing scheme that both consumers and publishers have encouraged effectively ensures that no smartphone game will ever have the budget of something like Uncharted: Golden Abyss. Hell, even GTAIII for iPhone went on sale after a week. So even if you have PS4-level hardware, you'll still be stuck with Angry Birds as your top seller and the public face of your gaming catalog.

I only see this changing if everyone takes S-E's lead and stops training iPhone owners like me to wait for the next 99¢ sale. I gladly paid $10+ for FFT and Chaos Rings because their content justified it, but I can't say the same for most iOS games.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Yeah...I don't think it's fair to say the price cut is what saved the 3DS. I think Mario and Mario Kart are really what saved the 3DS. The price cut just happened first.

yep. "i'll wait till mario and/or a price cut." same as we're hearing a lot of people saying similar things about the vita, with a more general need of big games in place of mario specifically.

although it IS kind of humorous that a lot of people are now saying "i'll wait for the dual stick revision" with 3DS, which apparently may never come. i consider myself one of those people. as soon as i heard about revelations supporting it i decided it was revision or nothing. gotta play that with 2 sticks and i simply can't deal with that big bulky monstrosity.

with vita, even if it stumbles and has a game drought for a while after launch, at least it will be an upgraded PSP for me. i have a good set of DD games for my PSP to put on my vita and so far the launch window games can sate me for a while.

 

[Vox-Pop]

I'm holding off till 2013. I'll save and wait for the next big price drops. 3DS for $120 and PSV for $200. Or until Pokemon hits.

 

[border]

Specs won't make a difference for smartphones/tablets as long as only a few developers (ex. Epic, Rockstar, EA) bother to utilize all that extra power.

You can kinda say the same about handhelds, can you not?

With something like Vita, you're essentially betting that the market is going to be big enough to sustain high production values and $50 games. That bet may not pan out, developers may be forced to make games for the lowest common denominator, and you may end up seeing a library of iOS/3DS ports and console ports.

 

[Smellycat]

While I do think people are calling the PSVita a failure a little too quickly, I don't think it will have as great of an impact as a Nintendo handheld (a little too obvious, I know). Nintendo has been the undisputed handheld kings for over 30 years (If you count Game & Watch). They didn't have a serious competitor, for over 25 years, until the PSP was released. And even then, the DS more than doubled the sales of the PSP.

I don't think this will change any time soon. The 3DS already has a +10 million units headstart, and it looks like the PSVita is targeting a narrower market than the 3DS's market (especially when you factor in the price).



Switching subjects, Nintendo isn't even worried about smartphones...at least for now. Iwata gave a speech last year about how smartphones and dedicated portable gaming will probably never be on the same level. And it is showing!! People who play games on iPhones are looking for something cheap/free and something like Cut The Rope. Nintendo 3DS sales in year one are even more impressive then what the DS did in its first year. So, it doesn't look like smartphones gaming is deterring people from investing in portable gaming machines.

However, tablet gaming is another story. Tablets aren't competing with the 3DS/PSVita, but Nintendo feels like they can capitalize on tablet gaming in home consoles. There is a reason why the Wii U controller is a tablet. Maybe Nintendo feels that iPads are a bigger threat to gaming consoles than iPhones...

 

[Woo-Fu]

Yes in six years the Vita will still play newly released games. But you'll be playing them on six-year-old hardware. The horsepower behind the iPhone and iPod touch will have increased exponentially -- so games will look the best on iOS.

I don't see that happening, for the simple reason that there is no profit motive to develop such games on IOS devices. The bar has already been set very low and will only go lower as IOS devices become even more ubiquitous. $1 shovelware is the end state of IOS gaming, not AAA blockbusters with stunning graphics.

The only thing that I could see changing this prediction is Apple finally getting serious about gaming, instead of their many feints. When they have a stable of first party game studios developing AAA content for IOS your prediction has a chance of happening.

 

[FairXchange]

I think the price cut for the 3DS facilitated the strong response to the Mario software.

I really admire Sony for looking to deliver a quality product in the Vita. I know I'll be there day 1, but I'm not gonna be the difference maker. I hope people see the value in this thing, and I hope Sony is looking bring in some killer software for it.

 

[Littlegator]

Yes.

Case closed.

Yes

Good luck trying to play the latest games of AppStore if you have a device of more than 2 years.

Good luck even trying to update the firmware to the last version and still be able to navegate confortably.

Yes, most of the people that buy apple products (at least portable ones) have to update them, at least, in a 2 year basis.

So you guys are telling me that many people buy new iPods, iPads, Macbooks, and Apple TVs every couple years?

:lol

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The price is not that high in the US.

Probably best to wait and see US/NA sales numbers first before getting comfortable with that idea...

 

[Somnid]

So you guys are telling me that many people buy new iPods, iPads, Macbooks, and Apple TVs every couple years?

:lol

Nobody buys Apple TVs, iPad has only been out about 2 years and yes people do buy new iPhones every 2 years when their contracts expire.

 

[Cipherr]

The price is not that high in the US.

Yes. It is, $250 is bad for dedicated handheld devices right now. I really dont know how much more obvious this can get.

No it isn't.

Yes, it fucking is.

Yeah...I don't think it's fair to say the price cut is what saved the 3DS. I think Mario and Mario Kart are really what saved the 3DS. The price cut just happened first.

This doesnt account for the full on surge the 3DS started and sustained clear up until that software actually hit. You have to account for August through December numbers where the price drop was in place, and 3DS surged without Mario or Mario Kart. Of course software plays a part, but 3DS got well back on track just from the price drop alone.

 

[boiled goose]

Wow. The Vita will now be a Virtual Boy level disaster...

lets not get carried away here folks.
It is a main platform that sony and third parties will (at least partially in a worse case scenario) support.

Worse case is gamecube level success IMO.

 

[AranhaHunter]

The price is not that high in the US.

Yes. It is, $250 is bad for dedicated handheld devices right now. I really dont know how much more obvious this can get.

No it isn't.

Yes, it fucking is.

This made me laugh more than it should have.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Wow. The Vita will now be a Virtual Boy level disaster...

lets not get carried away here folks.
It is a main platform that sony and third parties will (at least partially in a worse case scenario) support.

Worse case is gamecube level success IMO.

I don't think that is all that much better. If the vita only managed to sell as well as the GC i'd say you would see its life getting cut short.

I really don't see it selling that poorly though.

 

[boiled goose]

I don't think that is all that much better. If the vita only managed to sell as well as the GC i'd say you would see its life getting cut short.

I really don't see it selling that poorly though.

<1M vs. >20M WW sales
~20 games vs. >600 games released

That is quite a bit better to put it lightly. One is an outright disaster, one is not.

 

[btkadams]

Yes. It is, $250 is bad for dedicated handheld devices right now. I really dont know how much more obvious this can get.



Yes, it fucking is.



This doesnt account for the full on surge the 3DS started and sustained clear up until that software actually hit. You have to account for August through December numbers where the price drop was in place, and 3DS surged without Mario or Mario Kart. Of course software plays a part, but 3DS got well back on track just from the price drop alone.

how is $250 bad for a handheld device? i paid $399 for my iphone on a 3 year contract this past october. i also am looking into getting an ipad 3 this summer which will definitely be $500+.

anything more than $250 would be reaching, but $250 is fair imo. i may be more tech oriented than most, but my non-tech friends pay full-price for their tablets/phones/etc so i don't see how 250 is too steep for them to handle. all sony has to do is market the vita properly and give it the needed games/apps.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

"but people do _____ for apple" is an argument I keep hearing coming up in these kinds of threads and it seems like a really bad comparison to make. These other companies are not Apple, to put it lightly. If the best defense for Vita's suitability to the market is "people pay a lot for apple devices" then that's not a good sign.

 

[StreetsAhead]

"but people do _____ for apple" is an argument I keep hearing coming up in these kinds of threads and it seems like a really bad comparison to make. These other companies are not Apple, to put it lightly. If the best defense for Vita's suitability to the market is "people pay a lot for apple devices" then that's not a good sign.

Exactly, Apple have spent their entire time in business marketing mediocre consumer electronics in shiny cases for too much money. Few other companies can get away with that so what Apple does is largely irrelevant to what Sony could do.

 

[Fjolle]

3GS was the last to use ARM; iPhone 4 uses the A4 chip that is 200MHz (33%)faster. Larger performance gains likely come from the doubled RAM.

Since there is more than enough straw and tinfoil in this thread to go around: as someone who has both a 3GS and 4 in the house that are the same age, the 4 feels quite a bit faster in tasks and way faster in webpage loading. Benchmarks bear this out.

No. All iPhones use ARM.

 

[DangerousDave]

"but people do _____ for apple" is an argument I keep hearing coming up in these kinds of threads and it seems like a really bad comparison to make. These other companies are not Apple, to put it lightly. If the best defense for Vita's suitability to the market is "people pay a lot for apple devices" then that's not a good sign.

If we have to talk about bad arguments, we can stop assuming that iPhone and portable consoles are the same userbase and each iPhone 4GS sale is a portable console sale lost.

This is like Canon saying: "Come on! You saw the photos done by 4GS? We can already close all our camera division".

 

[Freshmaker]

If we have to talk about bad arguments, we can stop assuming that iPhone and portable consoles are the same userbase and each iPhone 4GS sale is a portable console sale lost.

This is like Canon saying: "Come on! You saw the photos done by 4GS? We can already close all our camera division".

Logic has no place in this discussion.

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Sony claims that they are currently breaking even with Vita or even selling it at a small profit. Considering the state of the market, I don't think they can afford to be cavalier with their pricing. Nintendo has admitted they are now taking a loss on the 3DS. Sony will have to follow suit if they want to compete.

 

[Toki767]

This doesnt account for the full on surge the 3DS started and sustained clear up until that software actually hit. You have to account for August through December numbers where the price drop was in place, and 3DS surged without Mario or Mario Kart. Of course software plays a part, but 3DS got well back on track just from the price drop alone.

I don't know that I would call it a full surge or anything. Looking at August up to October the 3DS was doing less than 300k a month. Sure that was way more than the previous months because of the price drop, but when you factor in that in November they did pretty close to 800k on that month alone and by all reports they did even more in December, the two factors not present in the months before November and December are Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7.

I'm just saying that the price drop helped sure, but definitely not as much as software people want to buy.

 

[AdventureRacing]

<1M vs. >20M WW sales
~20 games vs. >600 games released

That is quite a bit better to put it lightly. One is an outright disaster, one is not.

Well they're both disasters for sony is what i mean but you're right they are on very different levels. My point is if either of those situations came to pass i think sony would probably strongly consider leaving the dedicated gaming handheld space.

 

[Version 3.0]

If we have to talk about bad arguments, we can stop assuming that iPhone and portable consoles are the same userbase and each iPhone 4GS sale is a portable console sale lost.

This is like Canon saying: "Come on! You saw the photos done by 4GS? We can already close all our camera division".

Yes. I don't know why people think different facets of the market can't co-exist. Home theaters are great now, with our big HDTVs and surround sound setups, but people still go to the theater - and theater movies aren't even exclusive like games often are, they're just timed exclusive. And movie streaming and renting services co-exist just fine with disc movie sales as well. The videogame market is no different - all parts of it are going to keep doing just fine.

 

[kikonawa]

i paid 640euro for an iphones 4S.. 250euro in comparision is nothing

i wish it has upnp video playback possibilities

 

[bigtroyjon]

If we have to talk about bad arguments, we can stop assuming that iPhone and portable consoles are the same userbase and each iPhone 4GS sale is a portable console sale lost.

This is like Canon saying: "Come on! You saw the photos done by 4GS? We can already close all our camera division".

I refuse to believe that a single person has suggested that there is a 1-1 ratio between the sales of iphones and portable consoles but these arguments are always full of similar strawmen so carry on I guess.

 

[DangerousDave]

I refuse to believe that a single person has suggested that there is a 1-1 ratio between the sales of iphones and portable consoles but these arguments are always full of similar strawmen so carry on I guess.

Not 1-1 (because in order to be a 1-1 ratio, Vita should have much bigger potential userbase than the real one), but some people is suggesting that people have to choose between iPhone or Vita-3DS, and that they can't have both.

 

[bigtroyjon]

Not 1-1 (because in order to be a 1-1 ratio, Vita should have much bigger potential userbase than the real one), but some people is suggesting that people have to choose between iPhone or Vita-3DS, and that they can't have both.

So you answer with another strawman? Nobody has suggested that either, people are arguing that someone may decide not to buy a portable because the iphone takes care of their portable gaming needs but not every person buying an iphone will use it for gaming.

 

[marc^o^]

anything more than $250 would be reaching, but $250 is fair imo.

Vita was 250$ when we expected it to have internal memory. Now it's 270$: everyone will need to buy a 4go MC.
Most people will also want to buy a case (+$20), and of course a game (+$30).

320$ is Vita's real entry price.

 

[DangerousDave]

So you answer with another strawman? Nobody has suggested that either, people are arguing that someone may decide not to buy a portable because the iphone takes care of their portable gaming needs but not every person buying an iphone will use it for gaming.

The arguments are way more apocalyptic than simply someone not buying portable games because they don't need it, because they have enough with iPhone (that is something that i can agree, but in most cases that "someone" probably wasn't already a portable console buyer).

 

[cyberheater]

Vita was 250$ when we expected it to have internal memory. Now it's 270$: everyone will need to buy a 4go MC.
Most people will also want to buy a case (+$20), and of course a game (+$30).

320$ is Vita's real entry price.

£230 - Wifi Model
£18 - 4Gb memory card
£30 - Game.

That's £278 or $435 in the UK. Fuck that. It needs to be £200 with a memory card at the most.

 

[SmokyDave]

£230 - Wifi Model
£18 - 4Gb memory card
£30 - Game.

That's £278 or $435 in the UK. Fuck that. It needs to be £200 with a memory card at the most.

I'd much rather pay £278 for a Vita than pay under £200 and get a tiny, incremental hardware update over the PSP. I can see where my money is going with the Vita.

Now, whether many others feel the same way is the real question, I guess.

 

[cyberheater]

I'd much rather pay £278 for a Vita than pay under £200 and get a tiny, incremental hardware update over the PSP. I can see where my money is going with the Vita.

Now, whether many others feel the same way is the real question, I guess.

Most of the launch games do look like a tiny incremental upgrade of a PSP.

 

[Toki767]

Most of the launch games do look like a tiny incremental upgrade of a PSP.

I thought Lords of Apocalypse literally was to be fair.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

made up numbers but pretty much 12 million worldwide.

If that's even close to being true I am seriously impressed. I almost can't believe it, the system isn't even a year old and it's had a pretty rough time post-launch until recently.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Their next PSP device should be a proper tablet *ducks*

 

[patsu]

Most of the launch games do look like a tiny incremental upgrade of a PSP.

I don't think so. Once you have seen a few Vita games, it is clear that Vita is noticeably superior because of the larger, finer and more colorful display. Some PSP displays have quite obvious ghosting too.

 

[SmokyDave]

Most of the launch games do look like a tiny incremental upgrade of a PSP.

Always the case with a new launch. I'll play Uncharted and then eat into my hefty PSN backlog whilst I wait for the first wave of 'proper' software. The hardware has some real potential.

I don't think so. Once you have seen a few Vita games, it is clear that Vita is noticeably superior because of the larger, finer and more colorful display.

Yeah, can't wait to play some PSP games on that thing. Yum.

 

[mrklaw]

The iPhone 4 was the biggest model ever, and will probably continue to be so, with pricing at $99 with contract (and presumably the 4 will become free on all major carriers when the 5 is introduced). You'd have to be crazy to think that developers are just going to abandon that audience so quickly.

Yes, some crazy envelope-pushing games will probably tax older hardware. But handheld gaming, by and large, is not about crazy envelope-pushing games. People don't care about framerates and texture resolution. They just want quick and easy fun. The mobile market is going to develop faster because most customers are on a two year product cycle rather than a 5 year product cycle.

Yes in six years the Vita will still play newly released games. But you'll be playing them on six-year-old hardware. The horsepower behind the iPhone and iPod touch will have increased exponentially -- so games will look the best on iOS.

hang on, you're contradicting yourself.

First you say the iphone 4 was the most popular, so developers won't abandon that audience. Therefore setting the common denominator to iphone 4 level hardware.

Then you say in 6 years time the iphone will have increased power exponentially.

But thats irrelevant if developers are looking at maximising addressable market, they'll still be making games that run on iphone 4/5.



And I wonder if there is a slowdown coming along. mobile tech has exploded, and we now have quad core CPUs. But surely they can't keep increasing in power with batteries staying roughly static? How much more development do we think there will be before things start to level off?

 

[cyberheater]

I don't think so. Once you have seen a few Vita games, it is clear that Vita is noticeably superior because of the larger, finer and more colorful display.

I've seen the vita screen shot page and like a lot of others was left feeling very underwhelmed. I know it's first generation and all that but seriously, the lack of vision displayed by the devs was insulting.

 

[patsu]

That's what I meant. You have only seen screenshots, not the real thing. A live game is animated too; not to mention the dual sticks.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

With those prices, all I'll say is they better have some damn good games.

 

[cyberheater]

That's what I meant. You have only seen screenshots, not the real thing. A live game is animated too; not to mention the dual sticks.

Yes. I'm sure a rough looking game is going to look better on a OLED relative to a TFT screen but you're missing my point. Launch games are meant to WOW and demonstrate a leap in graphics etc... Not look better purely by having a better screen.