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[Boerseun]

Okay. Here. Look at this image again:

Pay close attention to how the person is holding the pad. Imagine if there were analog sticks rather than slide pads. What would their hands have to do in order to reach the sticks properly? Would it be comfortable in your opinion?

EDIT: And notice they're not really wasting any real estate on the controller in those areas. They're trying to make the thing as small as they can horizontally given the screen's dimensions.

I agree with the point you're making on the use of slide pads versus analogue sticks. 3DS convinced me that it can work and, as you've stated, how you actually hold the controller dictates to a large extent what you put on it (and where you put it). Also, Nintendo is a company that puts a lot of time, money and effort into research and development. They would have been sure to make a thorough test of various analogue options. The decision to go with slide pads would not have been taken lightly. And the finished controller looks gorgeous! My only concern is that it will take too much focus away from the Wii Remote and Nunchuck combination, which has been a fantastic innovation in game controls. For FPS certainly I am going to demand the IR controls of the Remote+Nunchuck. Black Ops, Conduit 2 and Goldeneye all served to remind me of how graphics hold little importance when the control system is accurate, dynamic and fun to use.

 

[shnord]

I don't want circle pads OR sticks. I want circular touch pads:

- zero resistance; more comfortable to rest your thumb at any position
- virtual stick mode: the further your thumb is from the center, the greater the input (obviously)
- unlike a virtual stick on a touchscreen, you'd actually be able to feel the outside edge, plus there could be a ridge or indentation in the center so you can feel the deadzone
- ring mode: circling your thumb around the outside edge of the pad can be registered as a separate function, even when in virtual stick mode as long as you don't drag your thumb from the center first
- track mode: drag/lift/recenter thumb for mouse-like control (good option for aiming with the second pad?)
- possibility of being clickable like the newer macbook touchpads (and whatever other equivalents there are)
- if not clickable, they can at least be tapped, otherwise tapping can be registered as a separate function from clicking

It seems somewhat redundant considering the huge touchscreen RIGHT THERE, but the main concern here is ergonomics. As pointed out in the list, there would be no circular edge or deadzone ridge/indentation to feel on the touchscreen, plus it just wouldn't be comfortable to keep your thumbs stretched over the screen all the time. And I highly doubt the screen would be clickable. Take THAT.

The best part is they could still be called circle pads and confuse the hell out of everyone.

inb4 Xperia Play.

 

[fernoca]

It has an expansion port, but it's not the same kind that the CC Pro uses. I don't see what the point would be anyway since the Wii U pad has the same buttons.

Not to mention that the Wii U recognizes Wii remotes..which you can use to connect a CC Pro.

 

[Instro]

Who knows. They might have tried that. As you say, they're a massive hardware company that spends millions on R&D. All I know is this: The uPad, for all its novelty, looks like it has been optimized to a ridiculous degree, IMO. It doesn't look like a prototype; it looks like something that has seen test after test and been refined to a minute level over time.

I'm guessing that this is the configuration that they came up with that best met their functionality-to-comfort requirements. Of course I could be wrong.

Oh it certainly look refined, no doubt about that. As you have said this probably would indicate that they are pretty confident in this version of the slide pad to use them for their console.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I don't want circle pads OR sticks. I want circular touch pads:

- zero resistance; more comfortable to rest your thumb at any position
- virtual stick mode: the further your thumb is from the center, the greater the input (obviously)
- unlike a virtual stick on a touchscreen, you'd actually be able to feel the outside edge, plus there could be a ridge or indentation in the center so you can feel the deadzone
- ring mode: circling your thumb around the outside edge of the pad can be registered as a separate function, even when in virtual stick mode as long as you don't drag your thumb from the center first
- track mode: drag/lift/recenter thumb for mouse-like control (good option for aiming with the second pad?)
- possibility of being clickable like the newer macbook touchpads (and whatever other equivalents there are)
- if not clickable, they can at least be tapped, otherwise tapping can be registered as a separate function from clicking

It seems somewhat redundant considering the huge touchscreen RIGHT THERE, but the main concern here is ergonomics. As pointed out in the list, there would be no circular edge or deadzone ridge/indentation to feel on the touchscreen, plus it just wouldn't be comfortable to keep your thumbs stretched over the screen all the time. And I highly doubt the screen would be clickable. Take THAT.

The best part is they could still be called circle pads and confuse the hell out of everyone.

inb4 Xperia Play.

I think I'm gonna have to vote NO on this. I want something tactile and rigid in my hands, not some touch/tap/rub/drag/do a circle bs.

And yes I know, that's what she said.

 

[Vinci]

Oh it certainly look refined, no doubt about that. As you have said this probably would indicate that they are pretty confident in this version of the slide pad to use them for their console.

Oh, I think they're pretty confident in this design. It looks slick as hell and sounds surprisingly comfortable. That said, it's possible that there might be some small revisions to it prior to launch, but I doubt they'll add analog sticks to the thing.

 

[shnord]

I think I'm gonna have to vote NO on this. I want something tactile and rigid in my hands, not some touch/tap/rub/drag/do a circle bs.

And yes I know, that's what she said.

When used in place of sticks, they would function identically as far as the game is concerned. The other modes are just possible uses on TOP of that, depending on what the developer wants to do.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I don't want circle pads OR sticks. I want circular touch pads:

- zero resistance; more comfortable to rest your thumb at any position
- virtual stick mode: the further your thumb is from the center, the greater the input (obviously)
- unlike a virtual stick on a touchscreen, you'd actually be able to feel the outside edge, plus there could be a ridge or indentation in the center so you can feel the deadzone
- ring mode: circling your thumb around the outside edge of the pad can be registered as a separate function, even when in virtual stick mode as long as you don't drag your thumb from the center first
- track mode: drag/lift/recenter thumb for mouse-like control (good option for aiming with the second pad?)
- possibility of being clickable like the newer macbook touchpads (and whatever other equivalents there are)
- if not clickable, they can at least be tapped, otherwise tapping can be registered as a separate function from clicking

It seems somewhat redundant considering the huge touchscreen RIGHT THERE, but the main concern here is ergonomics. As pointed out in the list, there would be no circular edge or deadzone ridge/indentation to feel on the touchscreen, plus it just wouldn't be comfortable to keep your thumbs stretched over the screen all the time. And I highly doubt the screen would be clickable. Take THAT.

The best part is they could still be called circle pads and confuse the hell out of everyone.

inb4 Xperia Play.

 

[alazz]

Nah trackpads would be weird. The reset and resistance of analogue sticks is really helpful.
My only worry about the upad is that the circle pads will be made out of the same soft, smooth plastic as the 3DS pads. In which case, thumbs will slip.

But I like the placement of the right stick.
Sometimes I use right stick with the middle joint of my thumb and press face buttons with the tip. Being able to do the opposite is gonna be a lot more comfortable.

 

[Terrell]

Well, #1 is true for their latest device, the 3DS. That slider is far from optimal based on both comfort and function. So...you connect the dots.

If they made a slight error with the 3DS, why should we not presume they might make a slightly smaller error with the Wii U, using the same technology. Isn't it slightly irrational to presume otherwise...?

#1 isn't true at all. How would you CLOSE THE DEVICE if the slide pad was any taller?

The problem with sliders is it takes more thumb effort to keep them held forward than it does for a stick.

You can simply plant your thumb behind the stick, sliders require an active push up.

Plant your thumb against the raised edge of the circle pad on the WiiU controller. Same thing. It's tall enough to do it, once again, as evidenced in the photograph.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

#1 isn't true at all. How would you CLOSE THE DEVICE if the slide pad was any taller?

You'd probably need to redesign the hinges for a Vita-type analog, make it either close at a slight angle or do a total redesign on how it closes, maybe the top screen slightly more recessed into the case to give a bit of room. Wouldn't be impossible, but now we're discussing function vs aesthetics...

 

[shnord]

Nah trackpads would be weird. The reset and resistance of analogue sticks is really helpful.

I don't really see that as an advantage; that's just how sticks have been and is what people are used to. Different doesn't instantly mean worse. I mean, it doesn't instantly mean better either, but my list was to show that touch pads would at least offer more options. Mostly, I just like the idea of at least the right pad being a touch pad so I could use it for mouse-like aiming while still holding a more or less standard controller.

But that's just me I guess!

I'll be in the corner over here...

 

[Übermatik]

The buttons and sticks could definitely be closer to the screen, just saying. This is one of the size improvements I expect to see at E3.

 

[Aostia]

the circle pads are ok to me, especially because they need to be more flat than a normal analog stick due to the Upad shape.
plus, I've read that the Upad circle pad are better than the 3ds slice pad, if I remember correctly because they have a different "base".
my concern is about the position of the right circle pad: probably to me it should be more comfortable below the buttons and not above.

 

[Log4Girlz]

If the system really did have a 1 terraflop GPU and 1.5 GB of ram, dude I'm fucking set for 10 years.

 

[ozfunghi]

Y'know, I want to ask.
Exactly what HUD elements would you be comfortable putting on the Upad? I wouldn't want to have to look down to see my HP, but coins/rupees wouldn't be a problem to be down there. But then again, they dont' take up any real estate...

Idk, people trumpet this HUD thing but I'm not sure it has that much potential...

I'm sorry, i haven't read all responses yet, so maybe someone beat me to it, but i'd really like games to have a drag&drop option, so you can decide for yourself what elements stay on the TV and which ones you put on the tablet.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'm sorry, i haven't read all responses yet, so maybe someone beat me to it, but i'd really like games to have a drag&drop option, so you can decide for yourself what elements stay on the TV and which ones you put on the tablet.

That's not a bad idea

 

[ReyVGM]

Two sad moments:

1) When you enter this thread after a full day and see that it's still on the same page you left it due to lack of info.

2) When you enter this thread after a full day and see that it's 2-3 pages bigger than the last time, but there's still no fucking info.

fuuuuuu.gif

 

[AceBandage]

Two sad moments:

1) When you enter this thread after a full day and see that it's still on the same page you left it due to lack of info.

2) When you enter this thread after a full day and see that it's 2-3 pages bigger than the last time, but there's still no fucking info.

fuuuuuu.gif

So...
Every day.

 

[Red UFO]

Is there anyway to make the slide-pads clickable? I know you could use the touchscreen for extra buttons I think clickable sticks are pretty vital.

 

[Übermatik]

If the system really did have a 1 terraflop GPU and 1.5 GB of ram, dude I'm fucking set for 10 years.

Same man, this would be more than adequate. Expect some amazing looking titles, especially from Nintendo's 1st party teams.

^ And yeah, clickable slidepad would be cool actually... and do-able.

 

[ecosse_011172]

If the system really did have a 1 terraflop GPU and 1.5 GB of ram, dude I'm fucking set for 10 years.

I think it'll be 1GB of RAM and maybe half that GP throughput :-(

 

[Übermatik]

It was confirmed to be a Terraflop though?

 

[ecosse_011172]

It was confirmed to be a Terraflop though?

One translated quote which goes against most other rumours to not exactly 100%

 

[qq more]

It works great for the best fighting game.

Yeah, works way better than the other 3 options that game had.

 

[HylianTom]

What a weird night. Dreamt I was a Nintendo ninja, and as proof, I snuck my username onto slide during Nintendo's E3 presentation.

Too much..

 

[Übermatik]

What a weird night. Dreamt I was a Nintendo ninja, and as proof, I snuck my username onto slide during Nintendo's E3 presentation.

Too much..

Can't wait to see 'HylianTom' crudely sketched into the bottom right corner of the Pikmin 3 video...

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I expect that the controller will look different at E3 in these ways:

1) The Power button will be removed and it's functions will be taken over by the home button. Nintendo loves having as few buttons as possible these days and have emphasized making game controls easy to figure out for over a decade now. The Gamecube's A button was given such a prominent size and position because Nintendo wanted people to be able to just look at the controller and see A as the "when in doubt, press this" option. Therefore, I think they'll come to the conclusion that the power button is a redundancy and ultimately let the home button take over it's task.

2) The camera will have a white bar surrounding it to match the controller instead of a black one. No reason for this really, Nintendo just seems to love the color white and I don't think the black outline on the camera has any purpose. I think they'll keep the raised area that is currently represented by the oblong black space, but it will simply be recolored white.

3) The controls will be moved slightly closer to the screen/the controller itself will be slightly smaller altogether (but screen size will stay the same). As it stands, it looks like there's just a tad too much barren landscape around the screen strictly from a design perspective and, as technology progresses, it seems that screens are taking up more and more space on the products they're used on. I think Nintendo will do what they can to optimize the screen sizeverall size ratio a bit better.

4) The battery light will go away. It would look odd being there by itself without the power button and Nintendo can probably save a bit of money/make it easier to shrink the controller's overall size by not having to install that tiny light in every Upad. The juice in the controller can easily be indicated on the screen itself. Just keep it invisible until it reaches 10% or "low", at which point a little low battery icon is displayed in the bottom right/top right/whatever.

Other than that, I expect things to be unchanged. These are mostly small, aesthetic changes, but I'm keeping my guesses in line with the level of alteration that was seen with both the gamecube controller and the wiimote. They were small things such as minor ergonomic changes, adjustments in button shapes, etc. Usually nothing huge like changing slide pads to analog sticks. I expect that the Upad as it was shown 8 months ago was highly refined, but still a rough draft. For reference, the rough draft/final versions of the GC controller and the wiimote are below.

and the wiimote... I'm not responsible for any of the snarky comments edited into this pic

 

[m.i.s.]

Just how big are the A,B,X,Y face buttons? They look DSi / 3DS sized - which would just be shockingly small for a home console controller.

ie like the minuscule + and - and 1 and 2 buttons on the wiimote

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Just how big are the A,B,X,Y face buttons? They look DSi / 3DS sized - which would just be shockingly small for a home console controller.

ie like the minuscule + and - and 1 and 2 buttons on the wiimote

Assuming that woman doesn't have tiny hands, they look about SNES-sized.

 

[m.i.s.]

Assuming that woman doesn't have tiny hands, they look about SNES-sized.

Thanks. Anyone else who's used the controller want to chip in?

I expect that the controller will look different at E3 in these ways:

1) The Power button will be removed and it's functions will be taken over by the home button.

What about the + and - buttons being doubled-up with the triggers so that they're more accessible for Wii games whilst effectively reducing the button count without sacrificing functionality?

 

[Luigiv]

Assuming that woman doesn't have tiny hands, they look about SNES-sized.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. Looks like they're using the same molds as the Wii Classic Controllers.

 

[jacksrb]

2) The camera will have a white bar surrounding it to match the controller instead of a black one. No reason for this really, Nintendo just seems to love the color white and I don't think the black outline on the camera has any purpose. I think they'll keep the raised area that is currently represented by the oblong black space, but it will simply be recolored white.

You do realize that the black bar is a mini-sensor bar, right? I guess it could be white but I think the black looks cool and it may be more stable with the Wii sensor bar tech, etc.

I would be surprised if we didn't see revisions, but I believe that the power button and battery light will stay, even if moved.

 

[WillyFive]

Saying that in 2001 would have been castigated as a Nintendo fanboy, as back then, THIS was better:

Just saying.

Controllers age, and looking back, the Dual Shock design was as ridiculous and painful as it got.

The analog sticks were on the secondary position of the controller, so unless you were playing games with the D-Pad, you had to get adjusted to playing games with a messed up finger position to avoid having the wing handles stab the center of your palm. To be fair, the reasons the analog stick were there was because it was a last minute add-on to the PS1 to combat the N64, as most games on the PS1 still used the D-Pad; but it was a bad idea to have it unchanged one and two generations later.

Ironically, the Wii U is the opposite approach, with both analog sticks in the primary position, moving the D-Pad and face buttons to the secondary position. This design is designed pretty much for FPS, where both analog sticks are always used and the face buttons are usually secondary attacks or actions.

 

[Berg]

2) The camera will have a white bar surrounding it to match the controller instead of a black one. No reason for this really, Nintendo just seems to love the color white and I don't think the black outline on the camera has any purpose. I think they'll keep the raised area that is currently represented by the oblong black space, but it will simply be recolored white.

Black could help to reduce camera glare.

 

[Christine]

Black could to help reduce glare.

It's probably IR-transparent plastic.

 

[MDX]

So why do we need two uPads for a game like Madden?

Both players play using wiimote/nunchuck or classic controller to play the game, and simply share the uPad to select their plays. During the plays the uPad can show the announcers, some other camera angle, the scores, or whatever.

Dont get me wrong, its nice if the system can handle two or more pads, but is it really necessary for most games? I think people always want more, and tend to miss the simple doable solutions.

Then again, does Nintendo want people to carry around the uPad and be able to use it on any WiiU it comes close to?

 

[bgassassin]

^ So both players can pick their plays from their own screen. That's too much work for what you're proposing.

Well the 3DS slide pad seems to leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I myself love how refreshing it can be at times but in general it's not the most comfortable thing in the world to control with.

Unfortunately my use of the 3DS slide pad is too limited to form a proper opinion, but visually Wii U's seem to be thicker and Miyamoto I believe did say they were "improved". But as you know we won't know how good they really are till we use them for extended periods of time.

One translated quote which goes against most other rumours to not exactly 100%

Not necessarily. When speaking directly about the hardware it did point to an RV770 being in the dev kit like other rumors.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Just how big are the A,B,X,Y face buttons? They look DSi / 3DS sized - which would just be shockingly small for a home console controller.

ie like the minuscule + and - and 1 and 2 buttons on the wiimote

Based on 3" bottom screen for 3DS and 6.2" screen for Wii U, I tried to put them to scale. If this is right, d-pad and face buttons seem about a quarter bigger in both dimensions.

 

[Skiesofwonder]

Nintendo would be a fricken moron if they didn't allow for two UPad support for Madden alone. You want sports titles to finally be taken seriously on your platform? Allow players to pick and draw their own plays on the UPad while in the huttle, make adjustments/hot routes on your UPad while at the line of scrimmage, and even tell lineman where to block or what blitzes to pick up like a real QB does. All of these can be going on while the defense is making on the fly adjustments, bringing up defenders to fake or disguise blitzes, or changing coverages/alignments. The UPad can finally replicate the chess match that football has turned into (before the actual snap). If the online is up to snuff and EA takes this seriously, then Nintendo would finally have the superior version of Madden.

 

[Hiltz]

It's going to be interesting if Nintendo will eventually change its mind on whether we'll be buy and use a second Wii U controller instead of having to play local multiplayer games with the Wii controllers. As we all know, Iwata said that its technically possible but that the cost is an issue. Personally, I don't care much since I rarely play local multiplayer games these days.

 

[ActStriker]

Nintendo would be a fricken moron if they didn't allow for two UPad support for Madden alone. You want sports titles to finally be taken seriously on your platform? Allow players to pick and draw their own plays on the UPad while in the huttle, make adjustments/hot routes on your UPad while at the line of scrimmage, and even tell lineman where to block or what blitzes to pick up like a real QB does. All of these can be going on while the defense is making on the fly adjustments, bringing up defenders to fake or disguise blitzes, or changing coverages/alignments. The UPad can finally replicate the chess match that football has turned into (before the actual snap). If the online is up to snuff and EA takes this seriously, then Nintendo would finally have the superior version of Madden.

This would make me actually buy a Madden game.

This has to happen.

 

[HeySeuss]

....

2) The camera will have a white bar surrounding it to match the controller instead of a black one. No reason for this really, Nintendo just seems to love the color white and I don't think the black outline on the camera has any purpose. I think they'll keep the raised area that is currently represented by the oblong black space, but it will simply be recolored white.

I don't think this will happen. It's been said already that it is the built-in sensor bar, but expanding on that, the pointer of the Wiimote is IR based. Which means coloring the sensor bar white could reflect the signal instead of absorbing it like the black does.

Same principle we learned in 6th grade science, white reflects light, black absorbs light. No way they change something that in all likelihood has a technical reason for being the way that it is. Nintendo won't take the chance of changing something that could result in making the controls not properly register.

 

[radcliff]

Just how big are the A,B,X,Y face buttons? They look DSi / 3DS sized - which would just be shockingly small for a home console controller.

ie like the minuscule + and - and 1 and 2 buttons on the wiimote

I asked this question, as well as D Pad size, to those who held it at E3. I was told the D Pad is the size of the one on the Classic Controller, and the buttons are the size of the ones on the 3DS.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

I don't think this will happen. It's been said already that it is the built-in sensor bar, but expanding on that, the pointer of the Wiimote is IR based. Which means coloring the sensor bar white could reflect the signal instead of absorbing it like the black does.

Same principle we learned in 6th grade science, white reflects light, black absorbs light. No way they change something that in all likelihood has a technical reason for being the way that it is. Nintendo won't take the chance of changing something that could result in making the controls not properly register.

Oh, I didn't know it contained a sensor bar. It may very well remain black, then.

 

[Mokka]

I don't think this will happen. It's been said already that it is the built-in sensor bar, but expanding on that, the pointer of the Wiimote is IR based. Which means coloring the sensor bar white could reflect the signal instead of absorbing it like the black does.

Same principle we learned in 6th grade science, white reflects light, black absorbs light. No way they change something that in all likelihood has a technical reason for being the way that it is. Nintendo won't take the chance of changing something that could result in making the controls not properly register.

I thought about this too but then having the whole controller in white wouldn't make sense either. If you get fake reflections anywhere in the view of the mote this would cause problems.

I think there is just no way to hide the LEDs behind a white plastic bar.

 

[I Stalk Alone]

This would make me actually buy a Madden game.

This has to happen.

Think about other ways of playing local multi player if this is true. I really believe Nintendo has this up and running and will show it off during e3 with a couple of shooters and some sports games showing off these new gameplay methods.


For example in COD Black Ops 2 coming out later this year (This is just for Local Multiplayer).

Local multiplayer co-op main screen using traditional controls + 2 subscreens as squad buddies in missions.

Local multiplayer co-op main screen using Subscreen + 1 subscreen as squad member in missions.

Local multiplayer co-op main screen 2 player split screen + 2 subscreen as squad member in missions one subscreen as squad leader

Subscreen Player 1 can be more of a tactician focusing on certain objectives while others play a more traditional role of run and gun

Subscreen Players have the option of playing in RTS mode in local player missions sending NPC's as helpers to other squad members triggering cinematic scripted events where a certain firefight will ensue or new objectives to arise.

For example in a beach raid, Subscreen Players can send NPC medics to squad members or setup perimeters to attack beach heads using NPC's to attack Lions on the top of dunes to ensure safe passage for the tuna to launch a massive scale attack.

Generals mode where the mainscreen is a battlefield map that shows all objectives and map distribution of NPC's and who is gaining momentum. Bothsubscreen players play the role of opposing generals setting up waves and waves of AI squads to take position and capture flags or set up bombsites. This mode is taking the players a little bit away from shooting and haveing a completely different gameplay experience altogether. They can also risk going away from a macro management role for a few seconds and take control of a "champion" NPC squad member. The player will go into FPS mode to gain an advantage of taking posession of flags by gunning down enemies even with a tactical disadvantage due to the opposing players better positioning of NPC squads (I can see some kind of W40K game that is like this) but at the same time giving risking the management of the whole map. Gaining kills in "champion mode" can gain you perks as an added incentive to entice those to leave "general mode" open and making players think of when it is better to just use general tactics or more give NPC's more specific roles through "champion mode"

 

[idwl]

Based on 3" bottom screen for 3DS and 6.2" screen for Wii U, I tried to put them to scale. If this is right, d-pad and face buttons seem about a quarter bigger in both dimensions.

woah I adjusted my screen so my 3ds would fit right onto that one, didn't realize the controller was that humongous

 

[RedSwirl]

Think about other ways of playing local multi player if this is true. I really believe Nintendo has this up and running and will show it off during e3 with a couple of shooters and some sports games showing off these new gameplay methods.


For example in COD Black Ops 2 coming out later this year (This is just for Local Multiplayer).

Local multiplayer co-op main screen using traditional controls + 2 subscreens as squad buddies in missions.

Local multiplayer co-op main screen using Subscreen + 1 subscreen as squad member in missions.

Local multiplayer co-op main screen 2 player split screen + 2 subscreen as squad member in missions one subscreen as squad leader

Subscreen Player 1 can be more of a tactician focusing on certain objectives while others play a more traditional role of run and gun

Subscreen Players have the option of playing in RTS mode in local player missions sending NPC's as helpers to other squad members triggering cinematic scripted events where a certain firefight will ensue or new objectives to arise.

For example in a beach raid, Subscreen Players can send NPC medics to squad members or setup perimeters to attack beach heads using NPC's to attack Lions on the top of dunes to ensure safe passage for the tuna to launch a massive scale attack.

Generals mode where the mainscreen is a battlefield map that shows all objectives and map distribution of NPC's and who is gaining momentum. Bothsubscreen players play the role of opposing generals setting up waves and waves of AI squads to take position and capture flags or set up bombsites. This mode is taking the players a little bit away from shooting and haveing a completely different gameplay experience altogether. They can also risk going away from a macro management role for a few seconds and take control of a "champion" NPC squad member. The player will go into FPS mode to gain an advantage of taking posession of flags by gunning down enemies even with a tactical disadvantage due to the opposing players better positioning of NPC squads (I can see some kind of W40K game that is like this) but at the same time giving risking the management of the whole map. Gaining kills in "champion mode" can gain you perks as an added incentive to entice those to leave "general mode" open and making players think of when it is better to just use general tactics or more give NPC's more specific roles through "champion mode"

That sounds like something more suited to a Wii-U version of Battlefield 3. The Madden idea is exactly what needs to happen though... and watch EA still ignore it and try to put out some kind of kiddy Madden game.

 

[royalan]

So, since those buttons are an awful lot like the 3DS, can the 3DS owners tell me if they're any good? As someone with large hands their small size kind of concerns me. I prefer larger buttons, but I can live with it if they have some decent resistance and spring to them, for fighters and whatnot.

The only experience I have is with the DS slim buttons, and they weren't bad...but they weren't all that great either. Would definitely want something more premium-feeling for my console controller.