But again, why would they bother? They would be spending money just to cannibalize their own console version sales.
It's just a logo, from way before Japan bomba. Vaporware, at least for now.
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(Reuters) Sony's Vita arrives just as market may be fading
- Thread starter Ripclawe
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But again, why would they bother? They would be spending money just to cannibalize their own console version sales.
It's just a logo, from way before Japan bomba. Vaporware, at least for now.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
So they don't make money on sales of the Vita version? I'm really not following your argument here.
Oh really?
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
Why would they bother? Add in cross-play features between the PS3 and Vita version that require an Elite subscription to use.
frankie_baby
Member
Sony will be happy to sell 500k in three weeks????
Think they'll be lucky to in 3 months
Think they'll be lucky to in 3 months
Eh, I don't think most gamers are that agnostic between handheld gaming and home console gaming to the point that one could easily replace the other. At least not for the 'hardcore' gamers the PSVita is targeting. Cross platform playing is a very compelling feature but it needs to be available for every PS3 game for it to be a strong selling point for the PSVita. Most gamers when confronted with the choice between a portable or a home console will pick home console gaming because even though PSVita is the closest approximation of a home console experience on the go, it still isn't good enough for a hardcore gamer to forgo owning a PS3 or Xbox360. Not to mention that developers are going to target the PS3 or Xbox360 first and a device like the PSVita second for their AAA titles.
I think the Vita's problem is that it thinks it's a console. A portable system that is capable of powerful graphics and console quality games is great, but at the same time you have to understand the people who buy portable systems are at least somewhat different than the people that buy consoles. Sony needs to find a game that differentiates their portable system from their console, not that a console version of the game won't come out, but that it's ideally suited for the system. Tetris came out when it was first starting on pretty much every system at the time and most systems since. But it's biggest success arguably came on the Game Boy. It was an excellent game to suit the system and it's portability where you're not tied down to an epic story while going. It's a game that can work anywhere but is particularly suited to portables.
Sony needs a game like that, something that shows they're treating the system as a portable, not just as a mini console, something that has that addictive magic that you are reluctant to put down and is heavy on fun, fast game play.
Sony needs a game like that, something that shows they're treating the system as a portable, not just as a mini console, something that has that addictive magic that you are reluctant to put down and is heavy on fun, fast game play.
Hellsing321
Member
The PSP never turned into a "perfectly viable and healthy" platform in the West so you can't say its inevitable that the Vita will to. Is it possible? Yes but right now the deck is stacked against Sony and they need to do something fast.
I'm failing to see how that has any bearing on my point. People buying smartphones have a phone bill already.
Exactly. Many people don't want a mini-console, especially since they play their vita mostly at home anyway. Kinda silly to play a vita game when you can play a better version of the game on your ps3 which is sitting 10 feet away.
maniac-kun
Member
Most smartphone games are way to simplistic to even count as a game. Most are glorified flashgames. Thats not what i want.
Castor Krieg
Banned
You noticed it just now? People that have smartphones, for all praises they give their phones, still want AAA handheld titles for 0.99$ to come to iOS (Android users never bitch about handhelds being dead). They want Mario, they want Final Fantasy, they simply want them for 0.99$. That is all there is to it.
Probably everyone who dislikes it? I mean Vita and even 3DS more than DS offer an experience closer to home consoles. I don't like it and wish that the machines were more simple and portable.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
I don't think they're trying to keep it a secret.
I kind of agree with this. Not having any kind of RPG for the launch was pretty stupid too.
Please show me a better version of Gravity Daze on my PS3 right now.
Lumines?
durrrrrrrrrr
Member
as opposed to the people openly wishing 3DS/iOS fails? i'd say it's about the same number.
There were a lot more negative 3DS posts on here.
Realizing that a system's strategy is outdated and counter to the flow of the industry right now is not exactly hoping for its failure.
Ha, yes, the ios hate is even stronger (and more baseless, since it's already a huge success).
Castor Krieg
Banned
You have to be kidding me. Really?
I don't see how success is a measure of quality. Justin Bieber also sells, that doesn't mean he's a good singer.
Being plainly honest can get you in trouble around here. So people dance around things like this, throw out jokes, ask uncomfortable questions, offer gentle teasing, etc.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Well, as much as I love Vita, that's not really true.
Here's the kind of stuff I've been playing on my iPhone...
Glorified flash games? My ass.
Not sure where I equated success with quality... but regardless, to millions of people, his fans, Bieber is a good singer.
As far as I'm concened the only thing I'm waiting for on 3DS is a new take a the New Super Mario concept, hopefully a simple 2D plateformer but with great aesthetics, and most of all a New Legend of Zelda.
For the rest it's a question of making great 3DS games that don't need PSVITA specs to shine.
As far as VITA is concerned, it's much better than PSP and offers in my opinion a better place for third party games to shine.
Seing I'm bored with dual screens I hope many games will get dual 3DS/VITA releases so both clans are happy.
Digital Day release, bigger screen, touchscreens, dual nubs, I really see no reason not to celebrate VITA as a mobile gamer's dream come true.
i'm interested to see how Sony will spin its VITA effort in the phone/tablet area, but the VITA is great and now it just needs some support with great PS360 ports and dedicated games.
For the rest it's a question of making great 3DS games that don't need PSVITA specs to shine.
As far as VITA is concerned, it's much better than PSP and offers in my opinion a better place for third party games to shine.
Seing I'm bored with dual screens I hope many games will get dual 3DS/VITA releases so both clans are happy.
Digital Day release, bigger screen, touchscreens, dual nubs, I really see no reason not to celebrate VITA as a mobile gamer's dream come true.
i'm interested to see how Sony will spin its VITA effort in the phone/tablet area, but the VITA is great and now it just needs some support with great PS360 ports and dedicated games.
ScreenSplitter
Member
Well, as much as I love Vita, that's not really true.
Here's the kind of stuff I've been playing on my iPhone...
Glorified flash games? My ass.
Yeah, touch controls for Sonic 2 and Shantai? Yeah, no thanks.
They actually work really damn well. I've finished both games on iPhone without problems.
Don't get me wrong, a good d-pad will always be preferable, but the iPhone is always with me and it's easy to pull out in many situations.
On the flip-side, some of those work BETTER on a touch screen. Darius Burst and the Cave games, for instance, play super well with a touch screen (arguably better than a d-pad).
Which is exactly what they need more of.
But outside of 1st parties if you are going to invest that much money and time (3 years in all wasn't it?) in a console quality game, you are going to put it on consoles anyway to get your investment back. The costs of developing for the Vita are one of it's biggest hurdles, it needs to sell very well to justify it. But without the content you can't drive sales in the first place.
And if they end up on consoles AND Vita to reduce the risk, suddenly a unique reason to get the Vita is gone. None of this is easily solvable.
I'm with you there. There are some games on iOS that I simply won't play anymore because of the touch controls. In most games it is fine, but I think the controls are the biggest thing holding the ios back. That said, some games really do get it right. Many others fail, though.
I don't care at this point.
As a games machine, the Vita ticks EVERY box I could ask of it. The hardware is brilliant, the software I've played so far is brilliant. Its got the flexibility to cater for everybody, what with those traditional inputs as well as the touch screen.
As long as the Vita does well enough to maintain support and a community of players, it will be almost perfect for me. The more and more I see and play my Vita the less and less I personally care about all this futile chest beating about smartphones vs handhelds.
As a games machine, the Vita ticks EVERY box I could ask of it. The hardware is brilliant, the software I've played so far is brilliant. Its got the flexibility to cater for everybody, what with those traditional inputs as well as the touch screen.
As long as the Vita does well enough to maintain support and a community of players, it will be almost perfect for me. The more and more I see and play my Vita the less and less I personally care about all this futile chest beating about smartphones vs handhelds.
The gaming industry needs a thriving handheld market. The 3ds needs to succeed and the vita as well.
DangerousDave
Member
That is why he said MOST, not all.
As an iPhone user, I have to agree that he has a point. Most of the games are glorified flash games (btw, Super Crate Box is a glorified PC freeware), or they are ports of older machines, or they have serious problems with the controls. And sometimes, all of this, together.
And, sometimes there are gems like Superbrothers S&C, original and exclusive games that are designed with the iphone/ipad in mind. But they are exceptions.
Having Motorstorm RC or Tales of the Space for 6 or 7 makes me forget completly about any of the racing or platform iPhone games that I own.
Maastricht
Member
And deservedly so. It was overpriced for what it was, and didn't have any games. Compare this to Sony where the Vita is about the right price for what you get it, has tonnes of great software at launch, and only its memory cards are overpriced. So a massive improvement over the 3DS at launch.
At least in the West that is, because for Japan the games are still lacking.Now of course, that the device is actually worth its asking price doesn't mean everyone can afford it yet. It will need a few price-drops and have some good memory card bundles before it gets mass-appeal. But overall, there is just less to complain.
I was much hyped for the 3DS as a big fan of 3D display tech, it was the first that got it in my reach / pricerange. But the screen is just too small, and the hardware too weak to drive it (imho). Now there are some big titles out there that handheld gamers want, even more so in Japan, and the 3DS price is firmly in the area where people will buy it, and includes on-board memory, so for Nintendo it's all good.
Sony still has a lot of work cut out for them in Japan, but I think they should be in better position in the West (and the reviews are very positive generally, both on GAF and on most sites). I'm pretty curious to find out how much the price is holding them back in the West and what the sales will be.
@dark10x: as far as I am concerned, your screenshots made his point, but perhaps I have a too rosy view of flash games? And yes, the controls suck. The upside of iPhone gaming is that stuff like WordFeud / Words with Friends is great even if it doesn't require kick-ass hardware. And that is a new type of gaming that I can play with my wife, family etc. that's very enjoyable.
And despite it's simplicity, I still played 30 hours of Angry Birds. There's some great stuff, but I'm also very happy that there's Vita grade stuff out there now again with nice controls. All these devices have their place, and there is room for specialists, I think, just like there is ample room for PCs and Consoles next to each other.
Byakuya769
Member
I'd like to suggest that those pointing out that 3ds is outselling the ds at this time of its life be wary of broader implications. The operative value, in determining handhelds' viability, is current handheld ltd vs. the ltd (at the same time) for the prior gen. How does 3ds stack up against the time that the ds and THEN the psp were available? How are totals of the 3ds, and vita now, going to compare to those sales of the psp and ds?
Further, Nintendo is taking a hit on their hardware. Did they have to do that last go around? Even if sales stay completely equal (or even grow a little bit with inflation), this would suggest some weakening in the strength of gaming handhelds.
Further, Nintendo is taking a hit on their hardware. Did they have to do that last go around? Even if sales stay completely equal (or even grow a little bit with inflation), this would suggest some weakening in the strength of gaming handhelds.
Damon Bennet
Member
and all the games (well all the games i recognized) are ports. there is no place for high budget gaming on iphone. that is the niche that vita fills. it is not that hard to understand.
I get your point, but we suffered no drought with the Game Boy dominance of yore.
And thanks dark10x, I hope your examples will shine a light to some of the darkest caves in this thread.
Father_Brain
Banned
Well, the negativity about launch itself was deservedly much greater. I don't remember the negativity about the system's long-term prospects being nearly as great, at least until it became clear just how poorly 3DS was selling post-launch.
*zing*
High budget gaming?
You mean expensive games?
Yeah, that's what the industry needs, more expensive games.
You're judging a platform by it's free games? Nice work. And how is the iPad overpriced considering its tech? Other manufacturers continue to struggle in offering similar specs at such a low price.
The PSP Go.
While you could argue it's not a "platform", good luck convincing the general public. Japan's reception to the Vita shows that most people have moved past caring about showy graphics and physical buttons on a portable gaming system not made by Nintendo.
The difference with the 3DS is at least the long-term prospects were good because you KNEW there was going to be a solid slate of must-have games for the device. The Vita is a giant question mark.
Fallout-NL
Member
Touch screen controls suck, and they will continue to suck for all of eternity. I understand that the average consumer doesn't seem to care about that. But I will never play a game on my iPhone for longer than 5 minutes. It's just inferior, is what it is.
-------
Also, LOL @ a Vita for $79.99. Fuch yeah they'd be flying off shelves, cause that price is fucking ridiculous.
Oh, for the record, I don't plan to own a Vita. It would be my device of choice if I ever need a portable gaming device, but I just don't.
Most, if not all of these are better with real controllers/controls or originated on a console.
The_Darkest_Red
Member
Well obviously it's all relative so "high budget" can mean a lot of things but don't you think it would be hard for even a $20 or $30 game to sell on iOS? Do you think a game that needed to sell for that much to be successful would be worth attempting on iOS?
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
You know, if you're going to equate the sales of the system to the GAF userbase, the fact it's exceeded 100,000 proves your claim to be a bit flakey.
The only way for it to really fail is if Sony fails to have a game on the platform to push the hardware. And, quite honestly, if we are counting already existing franchises, they may have already lost this battle. Monster Hunter was their trump card, and it seems Nintendo's getting those entries on portables, especially mainline ones.
Sony needs something all new to wow people.
Having sequel after sequel is quite tiring. Some people buy systems to have news experiences, and play new IP. Having many new good IP´s will add and convince people to buy the system. Besides people are discounting PSN titles and PSSuite, which let small independent developers innovate and make amazing games. All of those combine will convince people to buy a system. Sequels are not the only thing that convince people to buy systems.
Touch screen controls work quite well on many genres and not that well on some others. That's a fact.
Why not just post "UMAD?" if you are going to side step his point.
He made a valid observation. Smartphone gaming has yet to show that it can sustain the high budgeted gaming market. The games that take millions to develop because they deliver a game that cannot be done in that sort of scale and scope without such a budget. Smartphone gaming has shown it can sustain the lower budgeted gaming, but it has not shown the same for the higher premium market. And you know that, thats why you went out on that limb with the sarcastic "expensive games" nonsense.
There is a market for that type of game. In fact, in the console gaming industry right now, those premium games are the ones that command the majority of sales and profit. Mobile gaming has shown little to no examples of being able to sustain that market. In fact the success of mobile games is very clearly weighted heavily towards the cheaper and free titles as opposed to the ones that cost more than $9.99
Dangerous path, that one.
The Vita has no triggers, making racing games better on console by default (ignoring Steering Wheels!)
It's also inferior to an arcade stick for fighters and 2D shooters.
Most, if not all of it's games will be extensions or ports of console franchises.
Dark10x chose a handful of games from a library of thousands. Pick 'em apart, but you're missing the bigger picture. You're still choosing an inferior experience to console players, just as smartphone gamers are.
And you all bow before the PC.
(I'm on my phone so I can't multiquote the budget guys, but yes, I think there's room for bigger budgets on iOS. I've been gaming since long before games cost £40, I've seen it happen before).