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[Cygnus X-1]

I am starting to think smartphone companies have a lobbyist for the media to kick all other gaming devices while they are down

funny how 3DS does good and gets no hype from these guys so if SONY turns VITA around I doubt they will praise them for overcoming the "Smartphones / iPad huddles" SMH

That's quite likely you know. After all, I think it is in the interest of Apple & co. to see Nintendo and Sony out of the handheld space. At that point, people would have no other choice that playing iOS games.

 

[Indyana]

Vitas would be flying off the shelves at $79 or $99 each, he added.

words from a professional in a suit.

It would be a great day on gaf if that happened. Wario64 might implode.

They lost 200$ with each PS3, so they could do it again with Vita.

 

[kitch9]

You completely underestimate the software that is now available for smartphones. Completely and utterly. I'm not going to bother with list wars but if you think smartphone gaming starts and ends with Angry Birds, you're wrong.

You also fail to realise that some people are just happy with 'games'. I play smartphone games, handheld games, console games and PC games. Different games for different times, different games for different moods.

TBH, I've no idea why I'm trying to point out your ignorance on this, there are thousands more where you came from and we'll do it all over again in the next topic.

I don't underestimate them at all, I have a few on my S2 which, for a phone, are pretty good but if they were on a console it would be difficult to consider them anything other than shovelware. I don't say that because of the graphics etc, but because the control schemes just don't work and make the games pretty much on the verge of unplayable.

Most of the challenge in say GTA3 on the S2 for instance comes from trying to drive in a straight damn line, it soon gets tedious. Somebodies already pointed out "GTA is not good for phones." which is my point.

Vita will play games like this, and direct ports of say COD and Skyrim (Dare I say even BF3!) all day long, something phones can only dream of, and its there where I think Sony has a market to exploit.

There's no point them going after Apple, they are the masters at what they do, anyway I'm surprised the article in the OP didn't have "Typed on my iPad." at the end.

 

[gkryhewy]

Nintendo strategy changed dramatically - going from 250$ to 169$, almost dropping 3D feature, increase advertisement of 2D games, etc. 3DS is selling because of no competition for a year + price drop + Mario games.

Once Vita gets a price drop and better games it will start selling as well. Now give me E3 and Type-0 announcement.

Almost dropping 3D and emphasizing 2D by releasing such titles as Super Mario 3D land, yes?

Vita will play games like this, and direct ports of say COD and Skyrim (Dare I say even BF3!) all day long, something phones can only dream of, and its there where I think Sony has a market to exploit.

It's a chicken and egg. Unless Vita drastically exceeds market expectations, those types of heavy-hitter western games will never be made. Instead you're looking at sony first party spin-offs for as long as they can afford to throw money at it.

 

[Castor Krieg]

They lost 200$ with each PS3, so they could do it again with Vita.

Yes, because the financial situation of Sony didn't change at all!

Almost dropping 3D and emphasizing 2D by releasing such titles as Super Mario 3D land, yes?

So one game changes everything?

 

[Principate]

Yes, because the financial situation of Sony didn't change at all!



So one game changes everything?

If it was one of the two system selling games in the west, then yes, yes it does.

 

[mrklaw]

those of you that have smartphones, great. But they are expensive to buy, and expensive to maintain (expensive contracts compared to cheaper phones).

For where you are in life, you might find thats enough - you have a smartphone anyway, and don't want to carry around any more 'clutter'.

But there will be people that have space in a backpack they carry everywhere with them, have more time to play games, perhaps can't afford an expensive contract and phone - maybe they are younger.

The average age of gamers is getting older, and I bet the average age of gaffers is too. But there is still plenty of the market that is addressable by a 3DS or Vita that isn't addressable by an iphone. and still more that have room for both

I get frustrated when someone finds a smartphone is enough for them, and somehow that equates to 'smartphones are all anyone needs'. When its the tech press that reports that its pretty much irresponsible reporting IMO

 

[Alexios]

3ds has had 2d system sellers? News to me. But cool, 2d shouldn't be forgotten.

Saying they almost dropped 3d is still all kinds of dumb though.

 

[mclem]

Kinda like 3DS has the identity of EVERY SINGLE Nintendo handheld? Zelda? Check. Mario? Check. Pokemon? Check soon.

One of the big issues for Sony in Japan has to be that the 3DS seems to be getting the identity of the *PSP* as well. It's establishing itself as the natural upgrade path. That's gotta be worrying.

 

[m.i.s.]

Very well as of the last numbers we got. Similar to how it's performing in Japan, actually. That's why no one wants to mention Nintendo in these doom and gloom articles anymore. It would kill any "dedicated handhelds are on the way out" narrative they were trying to construct.

I don't know about anywhere else but in the UK after selling around 70K units per week in the run up to Xmas '11, it's gone pretty quiet here.

On the software side, Resi Evil: Revelations dropped out of the Top 40 after just two weeks. In-fact, the only 3DS titles in the entire UK Top 40 are the two Mario's (Kart and platformer). Oh, and some Mario and Sonic Olympic title.

I would argue that the 3DS's fate is far from assured in the West at this stage. ie it's just too early to call.

 

[gkryhewy]

So one game changes everything?

Mario Kart, Mario 3D Land, MH3G. Which of these is a 2D-oriented title?

(it's okay to admit you were wrong).

 

[The Faceless Master]

What the fuck is this shit.

the truth, but not the whole truth!

 

[DECK'ARD]

Nintendo strategy changed dramatically - going from 250$ to 169$, almost dropping 3D feature, increase advertisement of 2D games, etc. 3DS is selling because of no competition for a year + price drop + Mario games.

Once Vita gets a price drop and better games it will start selling as well. Now give me E3 and Type-0 announcement.

Nintendo's strategy of trying to put all key franchises in one place is the same as when the 3DS was announced. The price-drop was the response to misjudging the market and to boost sales dramatically to avoid losing any of the key 3rd party games that were in development.

Sony are in the same position but the one thing Sony don't want to do is drop the price. Much less room for manoeuvre, but they need the Vita to sell well enough to secure ongoing development by 3rd parties. It's worse actually because Vita's increased development cost and development times puts even more pressure on it.

The longer it goes on the more precarious the position, without the games even cutting the price will only have a temporary effect. They need to pull a lot of things out of the hat at E3.

 

[Principate]

I don't know about anywhere else but in the UK after selling around 70K units per week in the run up to Xmas '11, it's gone pretty quiet here.

On the software side, Resi Evil: Revelations just dropped out of the Top 40 completely after just one week. In-fact, the only 3DS titles in the entire UK Top 40 are the two Mario's (Kart and platformer). Oh, and some Mario and Sonic Olympic title.

I would argue that the 3DS's fate is far from assured in the West at this stage. ie it's just too early to call.

True but that only in the UK which you can't call the entirity of the west which typically doesn't buy much Nintendo sotware if not for super casual games. (I'm from the UK and it's a pretty obvious trend). It's selling, maybe not like hot cakes but it is selling prety well with reasonably large amount of general advertising (not relly from Nintendo just general here are some games to buy supermarkets etc. that'll probably remain).

Nintendo software tends to be very much evergreens, as long as Nintendo keeps a resonable focus on it with a revision in about a years time it should be fine. Pokemon alone would probably keep the platform going.

 

[DECK'ARD]

One of the big issues for Sony in Japan has to be that the 3DS seems to be getting the identity of the *PSP* as well. It's establishing itself as the natural upgrade path. That's gotta be worrying.

Yeah, that was Nintendo's strategy and their defence against the increased pressure on dedicated handhelds. Cannibalise the whole of the handheld market, PSP as well as DS, to maximise its appeal.

The other less obvious way this plays to Nintendo's strength is to the publishers and developers who don't actually want portable titles with the development costs of console titles. 3DS makes a very comfortable middleground. The more it succeeds the less attractive a struggling Vita with much higher costs seems.

Outside of Sony first-parties it's going to be difficult to get people on board unless Vita does really take off to justify the increased costs and commitment. Catch-22 situation.

 

[m.i.s.]

True but that only in the UK which you can't call the entirity of the west which typically doesn't buy much Nintendo sotware if not for super casual games. (I'm from the UK and it's a pretty obvious trend). It's selling, maybe not like hot cakes but it is selling prety well with reasonably large amount of general advertising (not relly from Nintendo just general here are some games to buy supermarkets etc. that'll probably remain).

Just had a quick look at the latest Pal Charts - Week 7 and pretty much the mainstays are Mario Kart and Land (if that) in every EU territory.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with what you say about the evergreen titles but certainly, the 3DS in the West is not at all "Similar to how it's performing in Japan". I just don't find any evidence of that.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I would argue that the 3DS's fate is far from assured in the West at this stage. ie it's just too early to call.

I think it's fate is assured... it will do well enough, but it's not yet assured to be a 'success' in the West, I'd agree with that.

I was happy to see a new Brain Training announced. I was talking in a thread the other day about the first year of DS versus the first year of 3DS -- and in terms of large core and casual gaming franchises, the 3DS smokes the DS - two Resident Evil games, a Metal Gear Solid game, Tekken, StreetFighter, Mario Kart (before the 1 year mark), SM3DL (NSMB didn't come until ~18 months)....

Now that the CPP is out, what would definitely give it more of a cool factor here in the UK is a couple of FPS/TPS games from western third parties: a Call of Duty, a GoldenEye, brands like Tomb Raider, Assassins Creed, or Batman. I think Vita will get those, and it will help.

The next FIFA and PES games need to have fully fledged online modes, FIFA and PES have only been passable so far on 3DS -- football is a huge thing to get right in Europe. Nintendo's new NES World Cup style game looks cool, and the football management aspects made me wonder if maybe a FM2013 game could work on handhelds... it'd probably suck compared to the PC/Mac versions, and need a lot of memory to play with, but it might be more technically feasible now than it has been in the past.

What its also lacking at the moment are those bitesize handheld distractions that DS had like Wario Ware, Polarium, Meteos, Brain Training or Elite Beat Agents. Pushmo is a good start, as its probably better than most DS puzzlers - and there are a few other eShop games that are really nice too. I was interested to feel, while playing the Nintendogs demo yesterday, that Nintendogs might work better as a downloadable franchise. I think it'd be a good candidate for DLC as well.

I feel like the landscape might have changed for games like that: pet sims, people sims, puzzle games, small learning or exercise utilities... there are similar offerings available on phones, and people don't have to walk into a retail shop to get them. Nintendo have already said they're going to look into offering retail games through their digital distribution channels, I think games like that should be the first on there.

 

[Pociask]

Didn't see this part of the article commented on yet: "Josh Calixto, a 22-year-old video editor in Los Angeles, said he hadn't bought a portable gaming device since the Nintendo DS Lite three years ago.

He just doesn't have time for it: He does the bulk of his gaming on his PlayStation or on his PC, and when he has time to kill when on the move, he will play games such as "Infinity Blade" on his iPad, or buy a bundle of independent programs for his Google Android phone."

I don't have time for portable gaming with all these portable games I'm playing on multiple high end portable devices!

 

[JORMBO]

I agree with the article's overall message, although it's poorly written. Vita + memory card + game is going to run around $350. It is close to an iPad, and a lot more expensive then the direct competition (Nintendo). Plus there are no killer apps to make it worth buying. The thing really is just too expensive to grab a lot of people. The PSP is my favorite handheld of all time and I don't even want a Vita.

 

[dose]

Most people do not buy unlocked off-contract iPhones. A new one comes down to £200 on contract.

Yeh, around £200 just for the phone. Add on the fact that you then HAVE to pay (on o2 for example http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/iphonetariffs/ ) another £26 a month for 18 months and the cost of getting an iPhone4S that way will actually cost you in total, £687.

 

[SmokyDave]

Yeh, £200 just for the phone. Add on the fact that you then HAVE to pay (on o2 for example http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/iphonetariffs/ ) another £26 a month for 18 months and the cost of getting an iPhone4S that way will actually cost you in total, £687.

Everybody needs a phone. What you're doing is comparable to lumping the cost of an Internet connection into the price of a console.


Having said that, I paid £680 for my iPhone (out of contract) and I don't regret it at all. I'm the only person I know to have done that though.

 

[Tobor]

Yeh, around £200 just for the phone. Add on the fact that you then HAVE to pay (on o2 for example http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/iphonetariffs/ ) another £26 a month for 18 months and the cost of getting an iPhone4S that way will actually cost you in total, £687.

People don't look at it that way because they need a phone. That's a bill they would have regardless.

When you buy a car do you factor all the gas you'll need to buy into the price?

 

[DECK'ARD]

Yeh, around £200 just for the phone. Add on the fact that you then HAVE to pay (on o2 for example http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/iphonetariffs/ ) another £26 a month for 18 months and the cost of getting an iPhone4S that way will actually cost you in total, £687.

That is stating the obvious.

He was saying that most people just walk in to an Apple Store and buy an unlocked off-contract iPhone at full price. I don't know anyone who's done that.

 

[Principate]

Just had a quick look at the latest Pal Charts - Week 7 and pretty much the mainstays are Mario Kart and Land (if that) in every EU territory.

I certainly wouldn't disagree with what you say about the evergreen titles but certainly, the 3DS in the West is not at all "Similar to how it's performing in Japan". I just don't find any evidence of that.

And that's why it's a poor comparison, consoles sales have very little impact overall on the Japanese market, the Wii's and PS3 install base is a testament to that. So the fact the 3DS is dominating the sales of software with an install base of 5 million isn't surprising. The oposite is true of the UK. That's why you shouldn't be expecting the 3Ds to be dominating UK sales charts when the install base of of it's console counterparts are much higher. Until the install base grows by a significant amount (which it most probably will in time) expecting chart domination seems illogical.

 

[liger05]

I agree with the article's overall message, although it's poorly written. Vita + memory card + game is going to run around $350. It is close to an iPad, and a lot more expensive then the direct competition (Nintendo). Plus there are no killer apps to make it worth buying. The thing really is just too expensive to grab a lot of people. The PSP is my favorite handheld of all time and I don't even want a Vita.

What turned me off the Vita was the memory card prices and right now I'm thinking a Japanese 3DS to go alongside my Pal version would be better for me than the Vita.

 

[Mr Swine]

That is stating the obvious.

He was saying that most people just walk in to an Apple Store and buy an unlocked off-contract iPhone at full price. I don't know anyone who's done that.

Because its cheaper? I do that every time I buy a new phone since I don't know if I can pay for a 18 month long contract in the near future

 

[CadetMahoney]

Can't wait for the first NPD!!

There will be blood?

 

[Principate]

What turned me off the Vita was the memory card prices and right now I'm thinking a Japanese 3DS to go alongside my Pal version would be better for me than the Vita.

The memory card issue combined with the price, the fact that none of the games really interest me outside of Gravity Rush which is TBA, and that the games themselves don't even seem to be reviewing that well even in comparison to the 3DS launch titles which is a bit urgh.... Overall it just seems wiser to take a wait and see response (as is generally the case).

 

[Maedhros]

Thanks for dodging the the point repeatedly. It's impossible to argue with someone like you I'm afraid. But I guess that's what fandom is all about.

And yeah GTA3 is not a game suited for mobiles. But maybe you should try FFTactics and Ghost Trick for ports and Hero Academy for original games. Those seem to gather love from the hardcore GAF folks.

Sorry, they don't cost $0.99, so I'm not going to buy them.

 

[jchap]

I see the VITA eventually morphing into a phone now that Sony has taken their handheld division away from Ericsson. If they swoop in as a bad ass gaming / android phone hybrid at an affordable price, then they may start to make an impact in the market.

 

[test_account]

How many have actually written an article about how dedicated handheld gaming devices are dying because of cellphones and tablets? A wild guess, but this is probably the 15th or 20th article i've seen on this subject (not just for Vita, but also for 3DS).

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Eughh fuck you Apple. I blame solely them in this.

The 3DS is an example of how there's still plenty of room for dedicated handhelds, should Sony play their cards right. Whether they indeed will pick up the pace is another question, but it's perfectly viable.

 

[Maedhros]

3ds has had 2d system sellers? News to me. But cool, 2d shouldn't be forgotten.

Saying they almost dropped 3d is still all kinds of dumb though.

They dropped the focus on 3D though...

 

[McLovin]

All I know is I really want one. Yeah the price is high but I think the real issue is the lack of internal storage and the over priced memory cards. Its the one thing I just can't over look.

 

[Marco1]

As much as I want a vita, when I got hold of my senses I realised it would be an impulse buy.
Considering the price of the console,mem card and games I realised I could buy so much more.
I cancelled my pre-order and will wait until Christmas to see what happens but I have a feeling I will know a lot more about the next-gen by then that will probably take some more of the limelight by then.

 

[DECK'ARD]

They dropped the focus on 3D though...

They had no choice but to downplay the 3D after shooting themselves in the foot with the abundance of health warnings.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Yeah the internal storage is a problem. You need a big one to justify the idea of DD. If you buy a small memory card, you've got space for like, two games? So you're paying for the memory card, as well as the two games, all for the convenience of not changing around two tiny cartridges.

Untill they get the pricing/storage right, DD isn't quite the future yet.

 

[Alexios]

They dropped the focus on 3D though...

It's still in the system's name, and every trailer reminds you you're viewing 2D footage that you can see in 3D on the actual system... I don't think anyone can miss that it's there and I don't see how Nintendo could advertise it more since that would mean less advertising of the actual games, which they now actually have and can promote as opposed to many months ago where they had barely anything worthwhile and so pimped the system (which they had to actually introduce first, too) itself more.

 

[biggersmaller]

I know my Vita may "fail" as a platform, and will probably be the last mainstream dedicated gaming platform. However, I honestly could care less, and consider it worth the money just for the many great games already released/announced (not to mention a PSP catalog I get to explore for the first time). The $.99 mobile game culture is sufficient for some, but it's not for me.

Plus, this thing is fucking beautiful.

 

[twisteddeeds]

It's still in the system's name, and every trailer reminds you you're viewing 2D footage that you can see in 3D on the actual system... I don't think anyone can miss that it's there...

I'll add to this by saying that because of the marketing on the 3ds.. a lot of people who "aren't in the know" just thought the 3ds was another version of the ds, not the "next gen"

Partly because it looks similar to the ds too didn't help

 

[Foffy]

will probably be the last mainstream dedicated gaming platform

If Nintendo or Sony can keep making money in that arena, then it shall keep going. I see nothing killing that market. It's like that ultra-hardcore PC market; it may not be where the big money may be had, but that doesn't mean it's going to poof.

 

[JB1981]

Hardcore gamers on GAF are infatuated with the system but the rest of the world wants iPods, iPads and iPhones.

I predict the system has a strong launch but will have a steep price cut in a year and will be a failure.

 

[IrishNinja]

The reality is that phones are capturing an audience that no handheld is history has been able to. I think you're kind of delusional if you think that the dedicated handheld market and the phone market are separate and that one isn't affecting the other. It's only a matter of time before Sony and Nintendo can't compete with the rapidly advancing tech of the smartphone industry. Nintendo could make much more money by putting their IPs out on the app market.

when nintendo sells key franchises at 5-10 million copies worldwide, $40 without sharing royalties with apple or anyone...why do arguments like this assume they'd be the most likely, when they stand to gain the least from it?
i'll never understand this, unless you're just a huge fan of nintendo and apple both and think anything they do together would be great, despite it flying in the face of both of their business models.

 

[Foffy]

Hardcore gamers on GAF are infatuated with the system but the rest of the world wants iPods, iPads and iPhones.

I predict the system has a strong launch but will have a steep price cut in a year and will be a failure.

You know, if you're going to equate the sales of the system to the GAF userbase, the fact it's exceeded 100,000 proves your claim to be a bit flakey.

The only way for it to really fail is if Sony fails to have a game on the platform to push the hardware. And, quite honestly, if we are counting already existing franchises, they may have already lost this battle. Monster Hunter was their trump card, and it seems Nintendo's getting those entries on portables, especially mainline ones.

Sony needs something all new to wow people.

 

[m.i.s.]

And that's why it's a poor comparison, consoles sales have very little impact overall on the Japanese market, the Wii's and PS3 install base is a testament to that. So the fact the 3DS is dominating the sales of software with an install base of 5 million isn't surprising. The oposite is true of the UK. That's why you shouldn't be expecting the 3Ds to be dominating UK sales charts when the install base of of it's console counterparts are much higher. Until the install base grows by a significant amount (which it most probably will in time) expecting chart domination seems illogical.

And it isn't me who said that the 3DS is doing just as well elsewhere as it is in Japan which is what I was originally responding to.

I'm not expecting 3DS to set the charts on fire. When you have games such as SSF4 (recently discounted here to £5 - yes, just £5 - from the original eye watering £40), Resi Evil Mercs and Rev and even Nintendo's own Starfox just entering and droppng out of the Top 40 in quick succession, you just know something is not right.

 

[Taker666]

I actually think Vita will do very well in the west for the first month. I won't be that surprised if it beats the 3DS launch figures.

..but after that initial influx of Sony fanboys and the most rabbid core gamers..I'm not expecting much.

I don't think 3DS is out of the woods in the west either. Nintendo have played their biggest cards for western gamers ...and It's hard to see what their next system seller is for this market (other than another Super Mario Bros).

 

[Hyuga]

Funny how the media is desperately trying to convince us "handhelds are shit. Buy more smartphones/IPads"!

Hilarious!

 

[Foffy]

I actually think Vita will do very well in the west for the first month. I won't be that surprised if it beats the 3DS launch figures.

..but after that initial influx of Sony fanboys and the most rabbid core gamers..I'm not expecting much.

I don't think 3DS is out of the woods in the west either. Nintendo have played their biggest cards for western gamers ...and It's hard to see what their next system seller is for this market (other than another Super Mario Bros).

..Pokemon? A Zelda game that isn't a remake? Those are huge things.

 

[Pureauthor]

I don't think 3DS is out of the woods in the west either. Nintendo have played their biggest cards for western gamers ...and It's hard to see what their next system seller is for this market (other than another Super Mario Bros).

Something something electric mouse something something.

 

[Mario007]

Hardcore gamers on GAF are infatuated with the system but the rest of the world wants iPods, iPads and iPhones.

I predict the system has a strong launch but will have a steep price cut in a year and will be a failure.

It's gonna have a steepish enough price cut regardless within the next 2 years. That's actually Sony's strategy, it's also why they are using off the shelf components for everything in the Vita. Within the next 2 years more smartphones will start using those too and that will lead to reduced price.