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New Dead or Alive 5 footage. (Update 2: Releasing Worldwide In September)

Fruitster

Fruitster

Member
DOA5 is very quickly becoming the game i'm most looking forward to this year. The more info that comes out, the better it looks. Again, loving the new character models.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Oichi said:
And what exactly is the point of copy/pasting a move list? To prove how little you know about both series?
Click to expand...

To prove that a 5-way counter and half a dozen throw inputs that can only be teched by guessing the exact throw unique to one character is more complicated than the universal hold and throw systems in DOA? I'm not saying DOA is bad, I'm saying it's simple.
 
M

mattfabb

Banned
Oichi said:
Um, VF is also based around RPS.
Click to expand...

I think its correct to say that VF was based on RPS (attack, guard, throw),

But then they introduced evades and OM. OM (as you know better than most people) can both avoid attacks and throws and sometimes full cirulars (at least in vanilla Vf5).

This seems to me more complex than RPS. I believe there is a difference between the simplicity of DOA, which makes it a good game on its own, and the complexity of VF(5), which makes it a good game, but not quite based around the same RPS.

that is all before adding specific move properties that parry and sabaki attacks (and throws!) but you know this much better that I do. I am surprised that you dont mention it!

VF5 is based on RPS only if by that you allow for the fact that rock (attacks) can sometimes beat paper (guard) with guard breaking moves, and that scissor (throws) can sometimes fail to beat paper because you can escape/fuzzy/OM them. The evade/OM is neither rock, paper or scissor, and is something that DOA doesent allow/need.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Tguy said:
Ain't no different than how they've been in the past 15 years at least. Well if this was your first couple years getting into them or just tired of it then understandable, but yeah, the yearly re-release was actually pretty fucking terrible last gen (Guilty Gear fine example) and ones before it.
Click to expand...

This is sadly true, but I only played GG:XX:#R so it wasn't a big deal to me. Now that we're in the age of online fighters staying "current" with the scene has gotten so goddamn stupid that it's basically turned me off from the entire genre.

I'm not saying DOA is bad, I'm saying it's simple.
Click to expand...

And VF, Soul Calibur, Tekken, Street, GG, BB, Skullgirls, ... ... ... ... isn't?

They're all rock paper scissors, again. If you're expecting non-RPS gameplay in games you should probably stop playing games right now. Posting "move lists" doesn't make your point, dude. VF may have a more complex movelist system but it still has "Punch beats throw. Throw beats guard. Guard beats punch" system. *gasp* Just like DOA!
 
M

mattfabb

Banned
TheSeks said:
This is sadly true, but I only played GG:XX:#R so it wasn't a big deal to me. Now that we're in the age of online fighters staying "current" with the scene has gotten so goddamn stupid that it's basically turned me off from the entire genre.



And VF, Soul Calibur, Tekken, Street, GG, BB, Skullgirls, ... ... ... ... isn't?

They're all rock paper scissors, again. If you're expecting non-RPS gameplay in games you should probably stop playing games right now. Posting "move lists" doesn't make your point, dude. VF may have a more complex movelist system but it still has "Punch beats throw. Throw beats guard. Guard beats punch" system. *gasp* Just like DOA!
Click to expand...

Erm...no it doesnt. Many moves in VF5 allow for that system to be broken. Guard breaks are attacks that beat guard. OM are evades that beat attacks and throws. Sabaki, Reversal and Inashi's allow for the played at disadvantage to be proactive. This complexity alters the system you laid out.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
_dementia said:
Remember, NG3's release is 3/20 and it comes with the exclusive premium demo voucher.
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Which is stupid because I want to try Hitomi in the PS3 demo. Y U HATE PARITY, HAYASHI!?
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
mattfabb said:
Erm...no it doesnt. Many moves in VF5 allow for that system to be broken. Guard breaks are attacks that beat guard. OM are evades that beat attacks and throws. Sabaki, Reversal and Inashi's allow for the played at disadvantage to be proactive. This complexity alters the system you laid out.
Click to expand...

Except at the core the system is the same. There may be "reversal/sabaki/blah blah blah" but it's still the same "Punch beats throw. Throw beats guard. Guard beats punch." system, dude. Don't try to deny it.
 
O

Oichi

I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce!
God's Beard said:
To prove that a 5-way counter and half a dozen throw inputs that can only be teched by guessing the exact throw unique to one character is more complicated than the universal hold and throw systems in DOA? I'm not saying DOA is bad, I'm saying it's simple.
Click to expand...

lol, a 5 way counter that's done by either holding back, down-back or down? The only thing you did was list what animation you get when you do land a counter. Problem is, DOA's counter system operates in the exact same way.

And you completely misunderstand what DOA's RPS system is; it's basically strikes beats throws which beat counters which beats strikes. That's the exact same fundamental system that VF operates on.

matt: IMO VF operates on multiple RPS systems going on at the same time which overlay each other, creating exceptions to the rule, but DOA have had "exceptions" to their systems as well. DOA3 had a good sidestep system while DOA4 had guard break attacks. Let's just hope that they incorporate ALL of these in one game this time around.
 
S

Skilletor

Member
Oichi said:
lol, a 5 way counter that's done by either holding back, down-back or down? The only thing you did was list what animation you get when you do land a counter. Problem is, DOA's counter system operates in the exact same way.

And you completely misunderstand what DOA's RPS system is; it's basically strikes beats throws which beat counters which beats strikes. That's the exact same fundamental system that VF operates on.

matt: IMO VF operates on multiple RPS systems going on at the same time which overlay each other, creating exceptions to the rule, but DOA have had "exceptions" to their systems as well. DOA3 had a good sidestep system while DOA4 had guard break attacks. Let's just hope that they incorporate ALL of these in one game this time around.
Click to expand...

Some characters in DoA also have sabaki type attacks (koko and hitomi, maybe a few others...it's been awhile).
 
K

KageMaru

Member
DoA: Dimensions is the only DoA I haven't purcahased, can't wait for this one.

Though I don't know I'm not too sure what to think about the super moves. >_>
 
M

mattfabb

Banned
TheSeks said:
Except at the core the system is the same. There may be "reversal/sabaki/blah blah blah" but it's still the same "Punch beats throw. Throw beats guard. Guard beats punch." system, dude. Don't try to deny it.
Click to expand...

Dude, that is simply wrong, because in your RPS I dont see where evades and OM fit in.

Also, In VF5, almost every character has moves that defy the core system to the point that you can play the game as it was a simple RPS, but I guarantee you that you will never win against those who know how to disregard RPS rules.

Case in point: Aoi/Shun. If you know how to play them well in VF5 they can be incredibly effective in breaking out of the RPS formula.

PS: I am not sure why Oichi is not saying some of the things I am saying, since he is a much more experienced player than I am. If the reason is that he doesent want to scare newcomers away, then fair enough, I may not be the best ambassador for the game. I just want to point out one thing: VF is the easiest game, execution-wise. the difficult thing is to know what move to use & when to use it, not the actual move itself. I dont play SF4 because apart for not knowing when I should use a move, I cannot execute 60% of them anyway, and I get frustrated.
 
T

TreIII

Member
KageMaru said:
Though I don't know I'm not too sure what to think about the super moves. >_>
Click to expand...

Power Blows are really not "Super Moves", though. There's no meter management to be had, and they have honestly more in common with the Focus Attacks from SF4. You can even delay them and cancel out of them, no less.

Any way, I read stuff like this and I definitely get interested...

Rikuto said:
The retarded stun system from DOA 4 has been revamped severely since the last build, and the continuous ground bounce nonsense is gone completely from kasumi's 6k to give an example of that.\

You can't see healthbars in this trailer, but from another recent OXM preview Counters were shown to only do around 20 damage. They used to do anywhere from 60-100+. Out of STUN. They were the single biggest problem with the game and are getting nerfed so hard you can't even recognize them anymore.

Sidestep evasion mechanics are in the game and working like it was in 3.1, so it doesn't play like a 2.5D fighter like it did with doa 1/2/3.0/3.2/4/dimensions.

You cannot counter off of wall hits anymore, because they throw you into an In Air state. This allows you to create more true combos and actually devise proper strategy for killing your opponent other then just playing rock paper scissors (although good luck countering someone to death now. seriously you'd have to do it like 15 times in a match).


So basically.... yea. DOA is good right now, provided Shimbori-san keeps listening to us and developing the game the proper way instead of the Itagaki way.
Click to expand...

- http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.ph...wn-console-thread.144298/page-13#post-6604166

I had an inkling that Itagaki's departure may have been to at least DOA's benefit more than NG's, but again, I really like what I'm reading and hearing so far.
 
T

TreIII

Member
More stuff to report from FreeStepDodge.

http://electronictheatre.co.uk/xbox...h-dead-alive-5-virtua-fighters-akira-playable

Apparently, that thing about Sega publishing this game is true. Fascinating...

And now, some random tweets from Team Ninja's twitter translated.

60FPS!! Of course. @grap3: @TeamNINJAStudio Does #DOA5 run 60FPS or 30FPS?

そんな思いで制作中のDEAD OR ALIVE 5は『2012年9月発売予定』です。皆さんにお届けするまでにはもう少し時間ください。それまでは今月発売のNINJA GAIDEN 3初回版につくαバージョン体験版でぜひ腕を磨いておいてください！

Translation: "Dead or Alive 5 is in production and thought to be released in September 2012. Please give us some more time to deliver it to you. We want to be able to polish it and in the mean time try out the α trial that comes with the release of Ninja Gaiden 3."
Click to expand...

- http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/team-ninja-twitter.454/page-21#post-7305

The demo in question seems to be a slightly more polished version of what the press has seen already.
 
S

sleepykyo

Member
TreIII said:
More stuff to report from FreeStepDodge.

http://electronictheatre.co.uk/xbox...h-dead-alive-5-virtua-fighters-akira-playable

Apparently, that thing about Sega publishing this game is true. Fascinating...

And now, some random tweets from Team Ninja's twitter translated.



- http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/team-ninja-twitter.454/page-21#post-7305

The demo in question seems to be a slightly more polished version of what the press has seen already.
Click to expand...

Didn't Duckroll post something a while back about how Sega was going to start publishing TK's games?
 
T

TreIII

Member
sleepykyo said:
Didn't Duckroll post something a while back about how Sega was going to start publishing TK's games?
Click to expand...

Really? That'd be news to me.

Ignis Fatuus said:
Full blown DoA x Virtua Fighter inevitable?
Click to expand...

I would like to think so. Who knows, maybe by the time "VF+DOA" is seriously on the table, we'll be looking at a game where AM2 and Team Ninja work together for a singular game, which will be good to go on both Sega's awesome arcade hardware and the next generation of consoles.

As beautiful as both VF5 and DOA5 look right now, on Sega's new generation arcade hardware....HNNNNNNNNNNG...

Oh, and here's a hi-def version of the trailer: http://www.gamersyde.com/download_dead_or_alive_5_gdc_trailer-26125_en.html
 
L

lilltias

Member
------------------------------

------- CHALLENGER ------
---------- COMES ----------

------------------------------

Looks great!
 
G

GreggTheGrimReaper

Member
Look at them transparent fingernails:
image_dead_or_alive_5-18482-2380_0001.jpg
 
M

Meccanical

Member
Crazy amounts of detail on these character models man.

It's nice to see a game that isn't a combat sport sim have such attention to detail.
 
M

Master Thespian

Member
TreIII said:
I would like to think so. Who knows, maybe by the time "VF+DOA" is seriously on the table, we'll be looking at a game where AM2 and Team Ninja work together for a singular game, which will be good to go on both Sega's awesome arcade hardware and the next generation of consoles.

As beautiful as both VF5 and DOA5 look right now, on Sega's new generation arcade hardware....HNNNNNNNNNNG...
Click to expand...
FUCK YES

EDIT: Just saw the 720p video. Texture concerns dismissed. I cannot wait to see this in 60 fps 1080p.
 
T

TreIII

Member
Alrighty, while my old bud, Mr. Wah, the head of FreeStopDodge himself, awaits for his GAF account to be approved? He requested me to address on his behalf some concerns mattfab and others have bought up, as well as give other clarification on some things.

Mr.Wah said:
1) Some of the VR players, like mattfab, don't seem to know the depths of DOA, as many don't. They're just looking at the RPS system, agreeing that VF uses an RPS system but has layers that go over that initial RPS system like OM and sabakis. What they fail to realize, is that DOA has options that get around its own RPS system - maybe not DOA4, but at least DOA3 and even lesser DOA2. In DOA3 you had guard breaks and guard crushes that guaranteed follow-up attacks and made it so Attack could beat Guard. You had Catch Throws / Offensive Holds which were Throws that beat Attacks while also beating Holds. You had a wall crumple system in DOA3 that prevented someone from holding and getting a free hit for anyone - where some characters would opt for a free chance at a ground system. You had a mild side stepping system to attacks for avoidance of attacks while gaining positional space for strategical positioning (pushing an opponent near the guaranteed wall damage). You also have attacks that were "unholdable" as in when connecting with a HOLD, the holding opponent would just position switch instead of dealing default damage. You also had natural combos that put characters into certain stuns which would require a certain amount of frames to pass in order to be allowed to defensive hold out of the stun. Additionally, it's worth mentioning that struggling is in the critical state system, where a majority of critical stuns can be sped up as an alternative defensive style from holding out of the stun and being throw punished. Additionally, it's a bar that is built up in the background that can be "stored" for when the next critical state is applied to the player.

They simply didn't bother to break the game down far enough to see the deeper layers in play like they did with Virtua Fighter. Virtua Fighter can be played as simple as they are claiming DOA can be played.

2) Sega is only publishing the game in Europe. This is typical of Tecmo Koei Europe as the marketing in Europe requires a bigger cost due to localization laws and guidelines, so they typically work with a publisher to help offset the costs. Nintendo for example published DOA Dimensions in Japan, not Tecmo Koei Europe.

3) Basically, many of the changes we have seen thus far are based off of feedback provided to Team Ninja, which basically says to build the game off of DOA3 game design instead of DOA4/D (figuratively speaking).
Click to expand...

Hopefully, his account will be approved soon, so that he can start posting replies for himself! 8D
 
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