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[DY_nasty]

the case you linked, while it was indeed a kill, seemed more of an accidental murder. seemed like the cop really did mistake his real gun with his tazer. doesn't excuse the killing, but I don't think the cop willfully chose to just shoot the guy in the back for no reason.

That is impossibly hard to do on accident. The difference in weight/grip between the tazer and handgun is very different, the uniform standard typically dictates where all equipment is on the body for all officers (he wouldn't reach for his handgun and pull a tazer out of the holster), the situation doesn't call for a tazer either.

That was just as fucked up as it looked.

 

[Tideas]

He didn't need to taze him either.

i can agree with that

That is impossibly hard to do on accident. The weight is off, the uniform standard typically dictates where all equipment is on the body for all officers, the situation doesn't call for a tazer either.

That was just as fucked up as it looked.

tell me of a time when you're in a high stress environment, and tell me if you can keep a cool head. yes, these officers are trained for these types of situation. or so you would hope. i'm not arguing any of that. I'm arguing against the original implication of the post, was that the police actually shot the dude and meant it out of malice

 

[Blackace]

tell me of a time when you're in a high stress environment, and tell me if you can keep a cool head. yes, these officers are trained for these types of situation. or so you would hope. i'm not arguing any of that. I'm arguing against the original implication of the post, was that the police actually shot the dude and meant it out of malice

Uh... High stress? the dude was face down on the ground and in total compliance...

The year after that I think a cop killed a young man in a similar fashion but the guy was handcuffed...

 

[Tideas]

Uh... High stress? the dude was face down on the ground and in total compliance...

The year after that I think a cop killed a young man in a similar fashion but the guy was handcuffed...

being a cop is not high stress?

 

[jaxword]

being a cop is not high stress?

I would be very, very scared that you think cops aren't trained to handle high stress to the point they cannot handle their firearms.

 

[Blackace]

being a cop is not high stress?

When the person you are stopping is not doing anything and pretty much begging.. "please don't tase me" that's as easy as it gets.. Pretty much the high stress part of a routine stop was over, the kid didn't run, he was unarmed and following instructions.. No excuses, none..

 

[Tideas]

When the person you are stopping is not doing anything and pretty much begging.. "please don't tase me" that's as easy as it gets.. Pretty much the high stress part of a routine stop was over, the kid didn't run, he was unarmed and following instructions.. No excuses, none..

I'm not making excuses. I'm refuting your belief that the cop did it out of malice.

The only way your point stands is that this is his first confrontation with a black person in his history as a copy. if it is, then there's more weight ot your conclusion.

However, if he had stopped many black people in the past, and if those are even more violent and confrontational than this one, and if he didn't make the same "mistake" then, then it doesn't give you credence

 

[Blackace]

I'm not making excuses. I'm refuting your belief that the cop did it out of malice.

The only way your point stands is that this is his first confrontation with a black person in his history as a copy. if it is, then there's more weight ot your conclusion.

However, if he had stopped many black people in the past, and if those are even more violent and confrontational than this one, and if he didn't make the same "mistake" then, then it doesn't give you credence

Not buying this at all.. First of all I know the difference being a firearm and a taser.. And a cop who has trained for countless hours with their firearm know without a doubt.. Even IF he was trying to tase the already subdued youth that isnt with malice? lol

 

[Htown]

I still don't understand why there's a vocal contingent of GAF who is personally invested in proving that racism does not exist, and that unless the perpetrator of a crime explicitly states that they killed someone because of race, they could not possibly be racist.

 

[The Culture Vulture]

The only way your point stands is that this is his first confrontation with a black person in his history as a copy. if it is, then there's more weight ot your conclusion.

"No further questions your honor, no further questions."

"Nailed it!"

 

[jaxword]

I'm not making excuses. I'm refuting your belief that the cop did it out of malice.

The only way your point stands is that this is his first confrontation with a black person in his history as a copy. if it is, then there's more weight ot your conclusion.

However, if he had stopped many black people in the past, and if those are even more violent and confrontational than this one, and if he didn't make the same "mistake" then, then it doesn't give you credence

Is it better that the cop claims he did it out of incompetence?

 

[Blackace]

"No further questions your honor, no further questions."

"Nailed it!"

Not really..

 

[JoeBoy101]

I still don't understand why there's a vocal contingent of GAF who is personally invested in proving that racism does not exist, and that unless the perpetrator of a crime explicitly states that they killed someone because of race, they could not possibly be racist.

Perhaps because racism has been criminalized in these kinds of incidences. It should require the same level proof that any other criminal charge needs.

That said, from what I've read, sounds like there is enough evidence to certainly charge and probably prove racism in this case. I dislike and disagree with hate crime legislation, but the burden for reasonably proving sounds like its been made here.

 

[Blackace]

Perhaps because racism has been criminalized in these kinds of incidences. It should require the same level proof that any other criminal charge needs.

That said, from what I've read, sounds like there is enough evidence to certainly charge and probably prove racism in this case. I dislike and disagree with hate crime legislation, but the burden for reasonably proving sounds like its been made here.

No one has called it "hate crime" people are saying that race played a factor to how this kid and other youths have lost their lives..

 

[XMonkey]

How is this guy not arrested yet. Insane.

 

[JoeBoy101]

No one has called it "hate crime" people are saying that race played a factor to how this kid and other youths have lost their lives..

Well, based on the hate crime law, if race was a factor doesn't that make it a hate crime by default?

 

[DY_nasty]

Well, based on the hate crime law, if race was a factor doesn't that make it a hate crime by default?

No.

 

[JoeBoy101]

No.

Why wouldn't it? Not being pissy, but if race is the motivation for a crime, does that not make it a hate crime?

 

[DY_nasty]

I'm not making excuses. I'm refuting your belief that the cop did it out of malice.

The only way your point stands is that this is his first confrontation with a black person in his history as a copy. if it is, then there's more weight ot your conclusion.

However, if he had stopped many black people in the past, and if those are even more violent and confrontational than this one, and if he didn't make the same "mistake" then, then it doesn't give you credence

He executed a guy that was not only in control but compliant as well.

High stress leads to guys emptying clips into people they feel may be a threat. That was cold blooded murder of a detained individual. High stress doesn't cause that.

 

[DY_nasty]

Why wouldn't it? Not being pissy, but if race is the motivation for a crime, does that not make it a hate crime?

Its hard to prove true hate crimes for one. But in this case you'd have to prove that Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin specifically because he was black, not just that he found him suspicious because he was black. At most, race contributed to the confrontation... that doesn't make it a hate crime.

 

[Zoe]

Considering he has an over zealous history doing his neighborhood watch thing, I'm sure it could be argued that he would have done the same thing to anyone in those circumstances.

 

[JoeBoy101]

Its hard to prove true hate crimes for one. But in this case you'd have to prove that Zimmerman wanted to kill Martin specifically because he was black, not just that he found him suspicious because he was black. At most, race contributed to the confrontation... that doesn't make it a hate crime.

Thanks, I see the difference in what you're saying.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The event that happened is horrible, but I actually agree with Reallink that people are too easily jumping to the conclusion that this event was a racially motivated crime. I can't help but feel like we still don't have the full story. Something just seems very off about this case.

Is there any full detailed account yet of Zimmerman's side of the story? I just read this article and this stood out to me.



Zimmerman was obviously guilty of jumping to conclusions and assuming the kid was "up to no good", due to there apparently being a lot of robberies in the area lately, but the angle that a lot of people assumed that he was just a racist who hated blacks seems like it may also be based on assumptions.

Unfortunately, Zimmerman's dad flat out lied about his son approaching Martin before the shooting, so his credibility is shot.

 

[orion434]

What exactly is a "Gated Community"?

 

[Kacho]

What exactly is a "Gated Community"?

Its where rich people live to keep out all of the "bad" people.

 

[matt360]

What exactly is a "Gated Community"?

Usually an upper-middle or upper class neighborhood that actually has a fence surrounding it. The entrances have a guard station and visitors usually need to check in with the security guard, or enter some kind of password before gaining entrance. I used to live in a gated apartment complex in college, but that didn't stop someone from stealing my car. That was also in Florida, by the way.

 

[Vicetrailia]

What exactly is a "Gated Community"?

A community that has to deal with shitty gates that break often and get in the way of you entering and exiting your apartment complex.

I hate gates, so annoying.

 

[Kentpaul]

I can't believe this is still happening in this country.

you can't believe racism in america ?

 

[orion434]

Usually an upper-middle or upper class neighborhood that actually has a fence surrounding it. The entrances have a guard station and visitors usually need to check in with the security guard, or enter some kind of password before gaining entrance. I used to live in a gated apartment complex in college, but that didn't stop someone from stealing my car. That was also in Florida, by the way.

So did the kid hop a fence to get in or was he let in by security?

 

[mclem]

Holy shit I thought Kitty Genovese was just in Watchmen.

I now want there to be a spoof about suburban superheroes called "Neighbourhood Watchmen"

 

[MThanded]

So did the kid hop a fence to get in or was he let in by security?

He lived there.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

i can agree with that




tell me of a time when you're in a high stress environment, and tell me if you can keep a cool head. yes, these officers are trained for these types of situation. or so you would hope. i'm not arguing any of that. I'm arguing against the original implication of the post, was that the police actually shot the dude and meant it out of malice

A bunch of NY partiers face down in the pavement = high stress? To add insult to injury, he handcuffed him after he shot him in the back. You telling me this cop can't tell left from right or a bullet hole from a taser burn?

Edit: You're arguing that unless a cop brutally mistreats every member of a race he comes across, he can't be seen as racist against that race? What kind of ridiculous standard is that?

 

[Tideas]

Not buying this at all.. First of all I know the difference being a firearm and a taser.. And a cop who has trained for countless hours with their firearm know without a doubt.. Even IF he was trying to tase the already subdued youth that isnt with malice? lol

he was trained 6 hours in tazers. not countless.

 

[Devolution]

Its where rich people live to keep out all of the "bad" people.

Not always. Most of the houses or apartments I visited in Puerto Rico were gated.

 

[Enron]

don't know why I got quoted

Because you quoted my post about "you got all that from a picture".

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was talking about.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

He lived there.

He didn't live there;he was visiting his father.

 

[Kacho]

Not always. Most of the houses or apartments I visited in Puerto Rico were gated.

Right on. I was merely poking fun because that's typically what they are here in the DC area.

 

[Omegasquash]

The whole thing is a mess. Zimmerman should be arrested last week and brought up on murder charges.

 

[Tideas]

A bunch of NY partiers face down in the pavement = high stress? To add insult to injury, he handcuffed him after he shot him in the back. You telling me this cop can't tell left from right or a bullet hole from a taser burn?

Edit: You're arguing that unless a cop brutally mistreats every member of a race he comes across, he can't be seen as racist against that race? What kind of ridiculous standard is that?

because if he had not done it before, then why this time? if a person does not like a certai nrace, and has a tendency to perform such actions, then you have historical evidence.

but if it's a one time thing, does the person not have the benefit of the doubt?

 

[DY_nasty]

he was trained 6 hours in tazers. not countless.

6 hours of field/actual is required but the amount of briefings and lectures on it combined with actual use... the time is multiplied. Also, again, a tazer feels nothing like handgun. Its nothing like running the risk of picking up the DVD remote instead of the TV remote like you're implying.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

because if he had not done it before, then why this time? if a person does not like a certai nrace, and has a tendency to perform such actions, then you have historical evidence.

but if it's a one time thing, does the person not have the benefit of the doubt?

A man is dead, callously murdered on camera, why are you worried about giving the shooter the benefit of the doubt? If I beat a gay man to death while yelling "fucking f*****" does it matter that I had a gay classmate and a gay neighbor that I kind of put up with?

Those kids who assaulted and ran over that auto factory worker in Mississippi had never been in trouble either, do you get one racial freebie before people take you seriously?

 

[Htown]

So did the kid hop a fence to get in or was he let in by security?

This, right here, is the kind of assumption that got him shot in the first place.

Never crossed your mind that he or his family might live in the neighborhood?

 

[DY_nasty]

because if he had not done it before, then why this time? if a person does not like a certai nrace, and has a tendency to perform such actions, then you have historical evidence.

but if it's a one time thing, does the person not have the benefit of the doubt?

... he just executed someone who was cuffed. History of violence, mistreatment in the past, or stress level have nothing to do with shooting a cuffed man in the head. That is a calculated and aware decision that needs no rationalization.

 

[Dash27]

So do we know this guy's story yet? He says he shot an unarmed kid in self defense. From what I've read the Criteria for that is his life needs to be in "imminent danger"? Have we heard how exactly the armed 250lb Zimmerman's life was in danger at all from a 150lb kid, on foot, who we know Zimmerman was following in a car?

 

[ShinNL]

ITT we're all allowed to commit every crime in existence, as long as we do all of those only just once.

 

[DY_nasty]

ITT we're all allowed to commit every crime in existence, as long as we do all of those only just once.

"You can't call a guy a rapist for brutally raping ONE girl. Besides, how do we know that women weren't giving him trouble in the past?"

 

[CrazyDogg77]

"You can't call a guy a rapist for brutally raping ONE girl. Besides, how do we know that women weren't giving him trouble in the past?"

Her clothes were too revealing. Just like Trayvon was walking too slowly.

 

[NervousXtian]

He executed a guy that was not only in control but compliant as well.

High stress leads to guys emptying clips into people they feel may be a threat. That was cold blooded murder of a detained individual. High stress doesn't cause that.

I don't want to forgive the cop for the Oscar Grant killing, but that situation was hairy as fuck the whole time. You had multiple people recording and yelling at the police, tons of drunk people, it was a tense situation on the BART which is can be a pretty messed up place to begin with. They hardly had it completely under control. Only the cop who shot him knows why he did it, if it was accident or on purpose. The evidence points to involuntary manslaughter, which is what he was convicted with.

Also, he was not being completely compliant.

 

[echoshifting]

So do we know this guy's story yet? He says he shot an unarmed kid in self defense. From what I've read the Criteria for that is his life needs to be in "imminent danger"? Have we heard how exactly the armed 250lb Zimmerman's life was in danger at all from a 150lb kid, on foot, who we know Zimmerman was following in a car?

We've heard it, sure, but it makes less sense and seems less likely with each passing day. I'm not even sure it's worth repeating at this point. He lied.

 

[ShinNL]

"You can't call a guy a rapist for brutally raping ONE girl. Besides, how do we know that women weren't giving him trouble in the past?"

He's not a rapist. He has many female friends.