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[manipulate]

The issue is, if word got out that they closed a case prematurely - after doing a poor job, and decided to re-open a case when it was pointed out to them that they fucked up, what effect do you think that would have? They were probably trying to avoid a cataclysmic wave of people saying "So you admit you can fuck up, take another look at case 1-10,000 in your files, make sure you didn't make the same mistake".

Sigh, this is probably unrealistic but I'd like to think if they did their jobs properly they'd have nothing to be afraid of. Transparency is a good thing! And absolutely critical in the law enforcement system.

Although god knows this is probably very common. I mean, this would have been another invisible case if it wasn't for those 911 calls.

 

[slidewinder]

So it's still almost three weeks until the grand jury even hears this thing. How long does it usually take one to hand down a murder or manslaughter indictment?

 

[Blackace]

And if I drive to West Philly right now, get out of my car and start walking, odds are pretty good that someone will shoot me because I'm white.

lawl

 

[Learn2read]

 

[Suikoguy]

Fox finally did start covering it, basically right after that image came out.

 

[Yasae]

lawl

Just cause white people step on guns in West Philly doesn't mean you need to laugh

 

[Megidolaon]

The event that happened is horrible, but I actually agree with Reallink that people are too easily jumping to the conclusion that this event was a racially motivated crime. I can't help but feel like we still don't have the full story. Something just seems very off about this case.

Is there any full detailed account yet of Zimmerman's side of the story? I just read this article and this stood out to me.

"The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting, are false and extremely misleading. Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas," his father said in a letter published in the Orlando Sentinel. "George is a Spanish-speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life.

"Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide. Recently, I met two black children George invited to a social event. I asked where they met George. They responded that he was their mentor. They said George visited them routinely, took them places, helped them, and taught them things and that they really loved George. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

Zimmerman was obviously guilty of jumping to conclusions and assuming the kid was "up to no good", due to there apparently being a lot of robberies in the area lately, but the angle that a lot of people assumed that he was just a racist who hated blacks seems like it may also be based on assumptions.

 

[DY_nasty]

A black guy walking around at night being 'suspicious' is pretty clearly stemming from some racist shit.

The vigilantism is the the crime here. I don't think anyone in the thread is calling this a pure hate crime though.... just that the altercation was caused because of some racially motivated actions.

 

[Derwind]

A black guy walking around at night being 'suspicious' is pretty clearly stemming from some racist shit.

The vigilantism is the the crime here. I don't think anyone in the thread is calling this a pure hate crime though.... just that the altercation was caused because of some racially motivated actions.

Nah dude, Zimmerman loves black people... just not at night or in the rain and definitely not when they look round too much or are packing skittles & ice teas.... and definitely when they always get away, running away & shit...

Cause you know, that's them being up to no good...

 

[Forceatowulf]

And if I drive to West Philly right now, get out of my car and start walking, odds are pretty good that someone will shoot me because I'm white.

 

[DY_nasty]

I don't get why guys need to get all "white people get targeted too!" and shit... you do - but is there an overwhelming history of embarrassing social history on top of it? No. When shit is fucked up - its fucked up. Whether it be some black kids dousing a kid in gas then lighting him on fire, a missing hispanic girl ignored by local media, or an unarmed black kid getting shot over nothing - its fucked up. However, people do need to take into account that there's a long, long history of these things and even certain sub-cultures that promote it to this day because of said history.

Nah dude, Zimmerman loves black people... just not at night or in the rain and definitely not when they look round too much or are packing skittles & ice tea's.... and definitely when they always get away, running away & shit...

Cause you know, that's them being up to no good...

He is a great guy. It's a shame 'certain people' have been using his life threatening skittles allergy against him whenever they get the chance...

But crimes from racial motivations =/= hate crimes. Just want to reiterate that because there seems to be some confusion.

 

[Mortrialus]

Glenn Beck's website The Blaze published an article saying how despite being an "Overzealous vigilante", Zimmerman did nothing wrong and then proceeds to smear Trayvon Martin over a suspension he had from school.

Link to theyoungturks talking about it. Link to the Mother Jones article talking about it. I'm not posting directly to the blaze and giving them traffic for this.

 

[Derwind]

He is a great guy. It's a shame 'certain people' have been using his life threatening skittles allergy against him whenever they get the chance...

But crimes from racial motivations =/= hate crimes. Just want to reiterate that because there seems to be some confusion.

Well yes, though the distinction can get a little blurred when someone ends up dead because of it.

But I agree.

 

[Megidolaon]

But isn't it possible that he would have been suspicious if Trayvon had been any race? I'm still not convinced that he was suspicious only because he was black. More that he was a young guy walking around alone at night during a period when there have been a lot of burglaries. Still presumptuous and wrong, but I still don't see any clear evidence of racism. Trayvon could have been Hispanic or white and the same thing could have happened.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman was right, but I don't think that the media fanning the race flames is helping the situation.

 

[Derwind]

But isn't it possible that he would have been suspicious if Trayvon had been any race? I'm still not convinced that he was suspicious only because he was black. More that he was a young guy walking around alone at night. Still presumptuous and wrong, but I still don't see any clear evidence of racism. Trayvon could have been Hispanic or white and the same thing could have happened.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman was right, but I don't think that the media fanning the race flames is helping the situation.

Well Zimmermans motives wasn't really what incited the whole outrage. It was bullshit of course, presumptuous is a polite way of describing it.

It was the PD handling of the investigation. The more information that came out, the more they showed their true colours...

 

[DY_nasty]

But isn't it possible that he would have been suspicious if Trayvon had been any race? I'm still not convinced that he was suspicious only because he was black. More that he was a young guy walking around alone at night. Still presumptuous and wrong, but I still don't see any clear evidence of racism. Trayvon could have been Hispanic or white and the same thing could have happened.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman was right, but I don't think that the media fanning the race flames is helping the situation.

Sure, its possible. But then again to say that people don't clutch their purses, walk faster, and generally become more cautious when a black guy comes around... its willful ignorance. People do it. Just how people get antsy when they see someone that looks muslim-y at the airport. Casual racism exists - and this is part of it. Its very common. Hell, it was even prevalent in this thread if you want to read through all the pages from the very beginning.

Also, Zimmerman's comments and that phone call make it very hard to believe that it was just 'anyone'.

And I also wouldn't say they're 'fanning race flames either'. When they want to, they fan a lot harder...

 

[GaimeGuy]

Glenn Beck's website The Blaze published an article saying how despite being an "Overzealous vigilante", Zimmerman did nothing wrong and then proceeds to smear Trayvon Martin over a suspension he had from school.

Link to theyoungturks talking about it. Link to the Mother Jones article talking about it. I'm not posting directly to the blaze and giving them traffic for this.

Wow. A kid went out to the convenience store and was minding his own business when a guy shot him dead, and their response is not only to defame the character of the deceased child, but to defend his murderer as doing nothing wrong aside from having a big ego.

Talk about classless

 

[Devolution]

But isn't it possible that he would have been suspicious if Trayvon had been any race? I'm still not convinced that he was suspicious only because he was black. More that he was a young guy walking around alone at night during a period when there have been a lot of burglaries. Still presumptuous and wrong, but I still don't see any clear evidence of racism. Trayvon could have been Hispanic or white and the same thing could have happened.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman was right, but I don't think that the media fanning the race flames is helping the situation.

Because he actually approached and shot this one claiming "they all get away."

Are people still trying to disbelieve the racial angle on this one?

 

[jaxword]

But isn't it possible that he would have been suspicious if Trayvon had been any race? I'm still not convinced that he was suspicious only because he was black. More that he was a young guy walking around alone at night during a period when there have been a lot of burglaries. Still presumptuous and wrong, but I still don't see any clear evidence of racism. Trayvon could have been Hispanic or white and the same thing could have happened.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman was right, but I don't think that the media fanning the race flames is helping the situation.

Zimmerman appears to be a racist from the tapes. It's not 100% proven yet. The reason that there's even some debate was the revelation that Zimmerman isn't actually 100% white and appears more Hispanic. People like things to be black and white, so when it's not as easy as "some racist white guy" it becomes less cut and dry. And that's what people want in their media, cut and dry, black and white, good and bad, not shades of grey.

That being said, Zimmerman's still pure scum and the fact that he is or is not a racist shouldn't change the focus he's a murdering sociopath that should be locked up for life.

 

[Averon]

Wow. A kid went out to the convenience store and was minding his own business when a guy shot him dead, and their response is not only to defame the character of the deceased child, but to defend his murderer as doing nothing wrong aside from having a big ego.

Talk about classless

"He's a black kid; who gives a shit about him."

That's the mentality of these people. They are not are not decent people. Them relating to an African American is asking too much from them.

 

[Megidolaon]

"They all get away" doesn't prove racism. He could have been referring to punks or burglars or criminals or whoever else in his mind he thought Trayvon was. Not necessarily black people.

If he said "The n*ggers always get away" that would be one thing.

So yes, I'm still not convinced of the racial angle or that Zimmerman is racist.

 

[DY_nasty]

"They all get away" doesn't prove racism. He could have been referring to punks or burglars or criminals or whoever else in his mind he thought Trayvon was. Not necessarily black people.

If he said "The n*ggers always get away" that would be one thing.

So yes, I'm still not convinced of the racial angle or that Zimmerman is racist.

Does a person have to say a racial slur for them to be racist? Of course not.

Discrimination, stereotyping... the majority of it is never explicitly spelled out and proclaimed for all to see in bold lettering.

 

[Megidolaon]

Does a person have to say a racial slur for them to be racist? Of course not.

Discrimination, stereotyping... the majority of it is never explicitly spelled out and proclaimed for all to see in bold lettering.

I know, but I'm just saying that it's dangerous to assume that he is a racist without considering all the possibillities. Especially in a case where someone is dead and he could face murder charges.

I want justice in this case like everyone else. I find it awful that Trayvon is dead when he just went to buy snacks. But I want Zimmerman to have a fair trial, and i don't want him to be labeled as a murderer until we know the full story, which I'm not certain we have yet.

If I were a juror, I would be unsatisfied to make any decisions with only the information we have now, as damning as it is. I listened to the 911 calls and the image in my mind was not a good one of Zimmerman, but until I hear his side of the story I can't be certain that he is this evil monster that the media paints him as. Otherwise it makes no sense for the PD to have defended him all this time.

 

[DY_nasty]

I know, but I'm just saying that it's dangerous to assume that he is a racist without considering all the possibillities. Especially in a case where someone is dead and he could face murder charges.

I want justice in this case like everyone else. I find it awful that Trayvon is dead when he just went to buy snacks. But I want Zimmerman to have a fair trial, and i don't want him to be labeled as a murderer until we know the full story, which I'm not certain we have yet.

If I were a juror, I would be unsatisfied to make any decisions with only the information we have now, as damning as it is. I listened to the 911 calls and the image in my mind was not a good one of Zimmerman, but until I hear his side of the story I can't be certain that he is this evil monster that the media paints him as. Otherwise it makes no sense for the PD to have defended him all this time.

"dangerous to assume racism" ....The murder charges have more to do with the fact that he went Punisher on a kid with skittles than the fact that he thought a black kid with a hoodie is tier-1 suspicious. Race doesn't factor into the charges here. As I, and others, have said - the race issue has more to do with how the case was handled than the actual crime itself (outside of why Zimmerman confronted him... which really isn't the main point at all).

 

[mil6es]

from the UK and only catching this story now, but for the love of man and all things good, why hasn't this guy been arrested yet??????

 

[Derwind]

from the UK and only catching this story now, but for the love of man and all things good, why hasn't this guy been arrested yet??????

That's the million dollar question...

 

[jaxword]

I know, but I'm just saying that it's dangerous to assume that he is a racist without considering all the possibillities. Especially in a case where someone is dead and he could face murder charges.

I want justice in this case like everyone else. I find it awful that Trayvon is dead when he just went to buy snacks. But I want Zimmerman to have a fair trial, and i don't want him to be labeled as a murderer until we know the full story, which I'm not certain we have yet.

If I were a juror, I would be unsatisfied to make any decisions with only the information we have now, as damning as it is. I listened to the 911 calls and the image in my mind was not a good one of Zimmerman, but until I hear his side of the story I can't be certain that he is this evil monster that the media paints him as. Otherwise it makes no sense for the PD to have defended him all this time.

Actually, it makes a lot of sense for the PD to protect him. They could (and WOULD) easily cover up their own incompetence or corruption.

This would not be the first or last time the police in the US would protect their own interests (as any political group would).

Zimmerman is a power-mad monster--look at his record even before this case.

 

[Megidolaon]

I just don't think we have the full story. That's all. I think it's impossible to ever know what really happened just from the media.

Zimmerman is obviously guilty of wrongdoing, to what extent though I'm not sure. He is either an overzealous neighbor who made bad judgment or a cold blooded murderer, an important distinction.

It's possible that there's a good reason why he hasn't been arrested and not just that the PD is corrupt. Though that is also possible.

The article I linked to earlier said that witnesses saw him kneeled over Trayvon's body after the shooting, indicating that he felt remorse for the shooting.

 

[Mortrialus]

Actually, it makes a lot of sense for the PD to protect him. They could (and WOULD) easily cover up their own incompetence or corruption.

This would not be the first or last time the police in the US would protect their own interests (as any political group would).

Indeed. The police didn't even actually investigate anything about the case. They didn't even bother even attempting to identify Trayvon's body until his father called the police about him being missing. It's clear there was absolutely inexcusable misconduct and incompetence regarding the case.

 

[DY_nasty]

I just don't think we have the full story. That's all. I think it's impossible to ever know what really happened just from the media.

Zimmerman is obviously guilty of wrongdoing, to what extent though I'm not sure. He is either an overzealous neighbor who made bad judgment or a cold blooded murderer, an important distinction.

It's possible that there's a good reason why he hasn't been arrested and not just that the PD is corrupt. Though that is also possible.

The article I linked to earlier said that witnesses saw him kneeled over Trayvon's body after the shooting, indicating that he felt remorse for the shooting.

The idea that you can kill someone and not get arrested at all is a joke. Guilt or innocence regarding self-defense can be decided by a jury.

And kneeling over a body doesn't mean anything. That's reading way too hard into things.

 

[Loudninja]

I just don't think we have the full story. That's all. I think it's impossible to ever know what really happened just from the media.

Zimmerman is obviously guilty of wrongdoing, to what extent though I'm not sure. He is either an overzealous neighbor who made bad judgment or a cold blooded murderer, an important distinction.

It's possible that there's a good reason why he hasn't been arrested and not just that the PD is corrupt. Though that is also possible.

The article I linked to earlier said that witnesses saw him kneeled over Trayvon's body after the shooting, indicating that he felt remorse for the shooting.

Nope no good reason, each day more comes out and the reason he has not been arrested gets dumber and dumber.

Any normal person would have been arrested a long time ago.

 

[Aaronology]

Indeed. The police didn't even actually investigate anything about the case. They didn't even bother even attempting to identify Trayvon's body until his father called the police about him being missing. It's clear there was absolutely inexcusable misconduct and incompetence regarding the case.

The fact that they tested Trayvon's corpse for drugs/alcohol and not his shooter is almost a perfect example of how ridiculous their investigation was from the first night. And now there's growing speculation that Zimmerman was under the influence but we'll never know for sure thanks to the Sanford PD.

 

[Derwind]

I just don't think we have the full story. That's all. I think it's impossible to ever know what really happened just from the media.

Zimmerman is obviously guilty of wrongdoing, to what extent though I'm not sure. He is either an overzealous neighbor who made bad judgment or a cold blooded murderer, an important distinction.

It's possible that there's a good reason why he hasn't been arrested and not just that the PD is corrupt. Though that is also possible.

The article I linked to earlier said that witnesses saw him kneeled over Trayvon's body after the shooting, indicating that he felt remorse for the shooting.

The reason he's not arrested was a claim of self defense..

The 911 tapes that the police withheld for a decent while are pretty damning..

He admits to stalking the kid, he then ignores the 911 dispatcher telling him they don't need him to follow the kid, then he reports that the kids was fleeing after he noticed him and then he pursues the fleeing kid...

He can't claim self defense if he pursued a fleeing minor. He isn't an official authority, he's a self-appointed volunteer neighbourhood watch guy... and he ignored dispatchers that told him officers would handle the situation...

And before the kid died you can hear him screaming for help loudly in fear and panic before the gunshot silences him...

The police have tried to correct witness statements that corroborated with the withheld 911 tapes of the kid screaming for help.

They have changed up Zimmermans account of what happened(the offical story now is the kid attacked him from behind as he left the car, again the 911 tapes refute that) , even when the 911 tapes contradict him...

People generally feel remorse when they can register how much they fucked up, that doesn't take away from the fact that they fucked up nor does it make it an accident...

 

[jaxword]

He is either an overzealous neighbor who made bad judgment or a cold blooded murderer, an important distinction.

He's the second one regardless of the first. It's a fact that he left his vehicle with the intent to confront with a weapon.

Look, there's a time and place to play the Devil's Advocate. I agree that the racism angle shouldn't be the focus, but let's not debate his actual murderous actions. You don't confront someone with your loaded gun out of "zeal", you do it to SHOOT THEM.

 

[Mortrialus]

The fact that they tested Trayvon's corpse for drugs/alcohol and not his shooter is almost a perfect example of how ridiculous their investigation was from the first night. And now there's growing speculation that Zimmerman was under the influence but we'll never know for sure thanks to the Sanford PD.

Yeah. Everyday this story has raged, more and more absolutely infuriating details regarding the failure on the part of the police have come out. They failed on every part of this investigation from ignoring testimonies from witnesses, to correcting testimonies from witnesses, to not testing Zimmerman but testing Trayvon, to not bothering to check his phone, to not even bothering to identify Trayvon's body. It's clear the reason for the delayed arrest is because of just how many ways the police made extremely serious failures that they didn't want to come to light.

 

[DY_nasty]

I'd love to hear some hypothetical 'good reasons'.

Surely someone here can come up with a better on the spot story than "I, the self proclaimed neighborhood watch captain, merely pulled over to ask this suspicious character what street I was currently lost on (even though I live here) and it wasn't long before he lured me out of my vehicle with the promise of skittles then jumped me from behind using ancient tiger style shaolin techniques that he no doubt learned from the Gza. I saw him reach for the Arizona can and I had no choice but to shoot him before it was too late. I definitely DIDN'T follow the kid though. That never happened. But I did see an episode of Ghost Whisperer where the recently deceased influenced the minds of others from the beyond - that's obviously where this slander and 'evidence' is coming from."

 

[Dice]

If you stalk someone, chase them down when they get scared and run, shoot them while they are begging for help, find out they didn't pose any threat whatsoever, then not turn yourself in, you're a fucking monster.

No way around it. Aside from whatever happened in the moment or whatever was going on in his head at the time, if he can't take responsibility after the fact, he's sick and has no place in society.

 

[Derwind]

I'd love to hear some hypothetical 'good reasons'.

Surely someone here can come up with a better on the spot story than "I, the self proclaimed neighborhood watch captain, merely pulled over to ask this suspicious character what street I was currently lost on (even though I live here) and it wasn't long before he lured me out of my vehicle with the promise of skittles then jumped me from behind using ancient tiger style shaolin techniques that he no doubt learned from the Gza. I saw him reach for the Arizona can and I had no choice but to shoot him before it was too late. I definitely DIDN'T follow the kid though. That never happened. But I did see an episode of Ghost Whisperer where the recently deceased influenced the minds of others from the beyond - that's obviously where this slander and 'evidence' is coming from."

I'd have found it more believable if he said he was Schizo or something... and that he thought he saw Trayvon carrying a gun with his tall Arizona Can... and that he thought he was calling his gangbanger friends with his cell, so he wanted to finish it right there before the community was hurt irreversibly.... heat of the moment type shit.. :/

 

[jaxword]

I'd have found it more believable if he said he was Schizo or something... and that he thought he saw Trayvon carrying a gun with his tall Arizona Can...

I'm still putting my money on some form of this being the excuse. A combo of Dark + Misshapen skittles/can = HE'S GOT A GUN!

 

[SmokyDave]

Kid still dead?

Killer still free?

Fuck this story. Never a good update.

 

[demigod]

Chief Billy Lee got off way too easy, fucker should be behind bars for purposely mishandling this so called *investigation* that they did. I hope the Martin family sues the shit out of the PD.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Kid still dead?

Killer still free?

Fuck this story. Never a good update.

Just creepo gaf bumming me out

 

[ShinNL]

It's ridiculous that some people who assert that he might be half hispanic, that he can't be racist. My parents are Chinese and complete racist fucks when it comes to tinted people. You don't have to be pure white to be racist.

 

[gkryhewy]

And if I drive to West Philly right now, get out of my car and start walking, odds are pretty good that someone will shoot me because I'm white.

This is an idiotic post, which suggests you might do something dumb enough to get you shot, but it wouldn't be because of your race.

Also, West Philly has become a great place since you last saw The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

 

[demigod]

It's ridiculous that some people who assert that he might be half hispanic, that he can't be racist. My parents are Chinese and complete racist fucks when it comes to tinted people. You don't have to be pure white to be racist.

Exactly. Back when I was growing up, Blacks were mostly racist towards me because i'm Asian. Any race can be racist.

 

[Tideas]

this story is a defense lawyer's dream. you are never going to get a fair trial given the news coverage on this.

I can just try to get a mistrial declare as often as I can.

 

[Blackace]

I don't get why guys need to get all "white people get targeted too!" and shit... you do - but is there an overwhelming history of embarrassing social history on top of it? No. When shit is fucked up - its fucked up. Whether it be some black kids dousing a kid in gas then lighting him on fire, a missing hispanic girl ignored by local media, or an unarmed black kid getting shot over nothing - its fucked up. However, people do need to take into account that there's a long, long history of these things and even certain sub-cultures that promote it to this day because of said history.

People forget that almost every year an innocent black youth murder by authorities makes the national news... I don't have any numbers but I can say that blacks tend to be murdered by authorities at a much higher rate than another race. I could be wrong tho..

Anyone remember this case in Oakland?

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/us/another-year-another-unarmed-black-man-killed-by-police/

Did everything the cop asked of him and was shot in the head executioner style...

Anyways it is bad enough when blacks get killed by the guys who have the "excuse" to racial profile rather than by civilian...

But crimes from racial motivations =/= hate crimes. Just want to reiterate that because there seems to be some confusion.

This is true. I don't think that Zimmerman wants to see all blacks killed but he doesn't trust them... And his mistrust of them caused a young kid who just started his life to be killed

 

[Blackace]

this story is a defense lawyer's dream. you are never going to get a fair trial given the news coverage on this.

I can just try to get a mistrial declare as often as I can.

Won't happen on a murder, and after the police fucked up so badly... If it goes to court and it most likely will thanks to the coverage, a mistrial wont be the outcome..

 

[Tideas]

People forget that almost every year an innocent black youth murder by authorities makes the national news... I don't have any numbers but I can say that blacks tend to be murdered by authorities at a much higher rate than another race. I could be wrong tho..

Anyone remember this case in Oakland?

http://blog.amnestyusa.org/us/another-year-another-unarmed-black-man-killed-by-police/

Did everything the cop asked of him and was shot in the head executioner style...

Anyways it is bad enough when blacks get killed by the guys who have the "excuse" to racial profile rather than by civilian...




This is true. I don't think that Zimmerman wants to see all blacks killed but he doesn't trust them... And his mistrust of them caused a young kid who just started his life to be killed

the case you linked, while it was indeed a kill, seemed more of an accidental kill. seemed like the cop really did mistake his real gun with his tazer. doesn't excuse the killing, but I don't think the cop willfully chose to just shoot the guy in the back for no reason.

 

[Devolution]

the case you linked, while it was indeed a kill, seemed more of an accidental murder. seemed like the cop really did mistake his real gun with his tazer. doesn't excuse the killing, but I don't think the cop willfully chose to just shoot the guy in the back for no reason.

He didn't need to taze him either.