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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"

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Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Does someone pop up to stop you and explain everything to you, even obvious crap, in those games? Not that I recall, at worst it's windows that pop up while playing, and I think that is a key difference between whether or not it's overbearing, I'm actively STOPPED in Zelda games to be told how to play, whereas in those I usually just have extra information I can either quickly read while playing or outright ignore.

Hmmm true, then again my experience with Skyward didn't last long (not a huge 3D Zelda fan).

But it has happened in stuff like Skyrim (oh boy, that tutorial) and Mass Effect (you won't pass this until you do this stupid biotic attack!)

Some of you guys are really pissed off over kind of an innocuous comment. All he said was that he doesn't like modern Japanese video games, it's not like he's saying anything racist or hateful. Nothing worth boycotting over, at least for me. Maybe I have low standards.

I didn't know "Japanese developers suck" translate to "I don't like Japanese video games".
 

Vire

Member
Some of you guys are really pissed off over kind of an innocuous comment. All he said was that he doesn't like modern Japanese video games, it's not like he's saying anything racist or hateful. Nothing worth boycotting over, at least for me. Maybe I have low standards.

I think part of the anger or frustration comes from the fact that this guy hadn't proved shit up until this point. Who is he to claim that one of the super powers of the industry is complete garbage now? What have you done?

For the record, I agree with him to an extent and I like Fez! I still think he could have went about it a bit better though.
 

Vire

Member
Just the fact that his game reminds me (and probably others too) of one of the most popular and arguably one of the best indie games of the country he seems to loathe.

Uh What?

Where are you getting this from?

PHIL DOESN'T LIKE JAPANESE GAMES = PHIL IS RACIST AND HATES JAPAN.

People on this forum are really dumb sometimes.
 

Finaika

Member
Just the fact that his game reminds me (and probably others too) of one of the most popular and arguably one of the best indie games of the country he seems to loathe.

If you're talking visually, he did say he prefers Japanese art to western ones.

And the above post ^
 

Glass Rebel

Member
Uh What?

Where are you getting this from?

PHIL DOESN'T LIKE JAPANESE GAMES = PHIL IS RACIST AND HATES JAPAN.

People on this forum are really dumb sometimes.

Right back at ya, mate.

He says Japanese games suck, throwing everything from that country under the same hat. Context, my friend.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying he hates the country as much as I'm saying he hates the industry of said country. That's why I said "context".
 

Vire

Member
Right back at ya, mate.

He says Japanese games suck, throwing everything from that country under the same hat. Context, my friend.

MYns9.jpg


I got no words for this. Thankfully, there's an ignore list...
 

Hazanko

Banned
I agree with you about Zelda. I think it has nothing to do with "Japanese games", but modern Zelda has problems.

The handholding turns off gaming vetrans, that much is obvious...

...but I would assert that it turns off newbies just as much! Nintendo seems to want to do this to make the game "accessable" to casual players, by telling you how to do everything. But I am damn sure about human nature: no one wants their first foray into a game to be a series of chores where you are told what to do! It's not fun! If I were a kid today, I'd probably hate Zelda, to be honest.

Zelda 1 was successful because it starts off and gives you no chores or handholding. "Go do whatever you want". Experiment. Find your own fun. Discover the dungeons by yourself. This is what newbies will like. This is what experts will like. You should make the goals clear, but it should start you off with gameplay freedom. Tutorial sequences should be "opt in"... not mandatory 5 hour training.

Fi was so damn annoying I literally stopped playing Skyward Sword. The game had other problems but Fi was the one that made me stop playing.
 

Daeda

Member
He says he dislikes MODERN Japanese games.. if anything, thats a frustration because of his love for classic Japanese games. Fez is an homage to that era, just like Cave Story is. They both "ripped off" the same thing, and Phil Fish's comments dont make that ironic at all.

But people here seem to want to judge the book by its cover, so there's no rational argument to be made unfortunately.
 

Glass Rebel

Member
http://i.imgur.com/MYns9.jpg[IMG]

I got no words for this. [B]Thankfully, there's an ignore list...[/B][/QUOTE]

Suit yourself :lol

[quote="Daeda, post: 36991608"]He says he dislikes MODERN Japanese games.. if anything, thats a frustration because of his love for classic Japanese games. Fez is an homage to that era, just like Cave Story is. They both "ripped off" the same thing, and Phil Fish's comments dont make that ironic at all.

But people here seem to want to judge the book by its cover, so there's no rational argument to be made unfortunately.[/QUOTE]

I'm not judging the game at all.

Also not really a fan of putting games in categories like this. Just because a game doesn't play like its contemporary counterparts doesn't mean it's not a modern game. There's still lots of Japanese games that still have that "old" essence in them. Does that mean that Demon's/Dark Souls isn't a modern game?

But that's really beside the point, I just found it funny that he put every modern Japanese game under the same hat when his game reminds me of fairly modern Japanese stuff. That's all.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
He says he dislikes MODERN Japanese games.. if anything, thats a frustration because of his love for classic Japanese games. Fez is an homage to that era, just like Cave Story is. They both "ripped off" the same thing, and Phil Fish's comments dont make that ironic at all.

But people here seem to want to judge the book by its cover, so there's no rational argument to be made unfortunately.

Yep. Don't know why this is still pissing people off
 
i wish i never created those fucking sunglasses

Was that really a crack at NeoGAF?

He says he dislikes MODERN Japanese games.. if anything, thats a frustration because of his love for classic Japanese games. Fez is an homage to that era, just like Cave Story is. They both "ripped off" the same thing, and Phil Fish's comments dont make that ironic at all.

But people here seem to want to judge the book by its cover, so there's no rational argument to be made unfortunately.

Strawman fallacy and lack of tact.
 
Apart from it being incredibly rude and tactless to a Japanese developer who'd paid his way to his first GDC, Fish's comment in isolation wouldn't really be enough to criticise him. But following that, his arrogant, self-aggrandising behaviour (that "suck my dick. Choke on it" business), not to mention what happened at the IGF - where he voted against the re-entry of another developer's game, only to turn around and re-enter Fez - would seem to demonstrate that he's not a particularly nice guy.

He's made a good game and he's right to be proud of it, but all that other stuff was so unnecessary. And while his comment about Japanese games might be broadly true, it could easily apply to games from any territory. Some would argue that most western games suck, too.

I think it was borne of a frustration with the apparent lack of (for want of a better word) magic in modern Japanese games compared with those that clearly inspired Fez; the games of his youth. Also, he's probably not played Vanquish and Dark Souls and Rhythm Tengoku and TWEWY etc. etc.
 

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Faulting a small dev house for bugs is incredibly unfair really.
I've played many indie titles in the last few years and Fez is, without a doubt, one of the buggiest I've encountered. Between technical problems and losing my save data I've become quite frustrated with the game.

Fish recently suggested that testers shouldn't even be included in a games credits (kind of asshole thing to say) but I think it's pretty clear that they needed some fucking testers for Fez. It's a piece of shit, technically. I really do like the content they've created, but after so many years and official 360 release I expected something that wasn't falling apart at the seams.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
How are people still upset about this? Yes , it was a stupid thing to say. But can you really judge a man, his studio and his game over one thing, and not the rest that he has achieved? He has probably revitalized an entire genre with Fez that has been dead for years.

SEGA treated their American counterparts like shit in the 90s, going so far as to feel they weren't worthy of their previous game engine (Yuji Naka and the NiGHTS engine) and I am certain since then, most of those hating on Fish in this thread would have bought a SEGA game since then. How dare you support SEGA!!

And wow at the dude who thought FF XIII-2 is better than this without having played it...that's straight up trolling.

FFXIII-2 is actually a pretty awesome game (I wasn't a fan of XIII), have you played that or are you just basing your opinion of it on the first game?

And yeah I saw my brother play Fez this weekend. It looked pretty boring and dare I say... generic. In a day when retro indie platformers are a dime a dozen. Watched him for a little while then yelled at him to get off so I can play KOF XIII and Xenoblade.

Kind of funny to hear about all the bugs, there's one thing that Japan always gets right no matter what, their games aren't very buggy.
 

Yamibito

Member
Right back at ya, mate.

He says Japanese games suck, throwing everything from that country under the same hat. Context, my friend.

Edit: To be clear, I'm not saying he hates the country as much as I'm saying he hates the industry of said country. That's why I said "context".

Hahahahaha wow.

You know he only said modern japanese games right? But still dude, c'mon...
 

Derrick01

Banned
Looking at the latest Game Informer they gathered some quotes from people at GDC and there were at least 2 other "japan sucks" comments besides this one, one even from a japanese guy! So are people mad and just focusing on this one because this guy literally said "they suck"? Because the others basically said that too, just in a nicer way.
 

Zia

Member
Looking at the latest Game Informer they gathered some quotes from people at GDC and there were at least 2 other "japan sucks" comments besides this one, one even from a japanese guy! So are people mad and just focusing on this one because this guy literally said "they suck"? Because the others basically said that too, just in a nicer way.

Something about Honor.
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
This is the problem with bumping huge, old threads: none of the new posters bother to read any of it, make false assumptions and repeat arguments already had twice over.

The original backlash to these comments was that the comment was in response to a question asked by a Japanese developer from the audience. Phil and later John Blow said this stuff directly to this guy's face and on the surface it seemed like the Japanese guy was humiliated. Whether or not what he said was true is completely besides the point (and obviously patently incorrect). They laughed it off during the panel and he clarified his comments further which wasn't reported on. If you still this day in age fall for sound bite journalism then god fucking help you; you're just being willfully ignorant and taken advantage of.

Phil and the Japanese developer found each other on Twitter later and everyone made up and said sorry.
 

mattiewheels

And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Yep. Don't know why this is still pissing people off
Because he acts like a douche? I agree with his sentiment about Japan, he's just given us a little insight into his personality with everything he pulled...not that I don't buy games by douches.
 
Looking at the latest Game Informer they gathered some quotes from people at GDC and there were at least 2 other "japan sucks" comments besides this one, one even from a japanese guy! So are people mad and just focusing on this one because this guy literally said "they suck"? Because the others basically said that too, just in a nicer way.

Both of those quotes have long been posted. One is by Blow where he acts like Japanese games are the only games that suffer from handholding and the other is from Inafune. Infaune has been a critic of Japanese games for some time, but I don't think that he's ever said that they suck. And as someone mentioned earlier, for as much as he likes to talk he doesn't seem to come up with many solutions. At Capcom his big solution ended up being outsourcing popular brands to Western studios. And look at how that's turned out for them.
 

Riggs

Banned
This is the problem with bumping huge, old threads: none of the new posters bother to read any of it, make false assumptions and repeat arguments already had twice over.

The original backlash to these comments was that the comment was in response to a question asked by a Japanese developer from the audience. Phil and later John Blow said this stuff directly to this guy's face and on the surface it seemed like the Japanese guy was humiliated. Whether or not what he said was true is completely besides the point (and obviously patently incorrect). They laughed it off during the panel and he clarified his comments further which wasn't reported on. If you still this day in age fall for sound bite journalism then god fucking help you.

Phil and the Japanese developer found each other on Twitter later and everyone made up and said sorry.
Ya then he was a major dick to another guy on Twitter , but hey he apologized again so its ok.
 
Looking at the latest Game Informer they gathered some quotes from people at GDC and there were at least 2 other "japan sucks" comments besides this one, one even from a japanese guy! So are people mad and just focusing on this one because this guy literally said "they suck"? Because the others basically said that too, just in a nicer way.

- He was being an ass when a japanese guy made him a proper question, basically he and the whole audience mocked the poor guy.

- He later started being an ass on twitter, instead of recognizing that he was wrong, not his actual comment about the japanese industry he's entitled to his own opinion, but the fact he was rude and an a douche.

- After several more assholery comments he finally says he's sorry.

So yeah, it was never about "japan sucks".
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Ya then he was a major dick to another guy on Twitter , but hey he apologized again so its ok.

In complete context yes, perfectly OK, because the seething, ignorant, misinformed masses of Internet Crusaders who spammed his Twitter account did so swinging their sword at a windmill and deserve nothing but scorn. They are a thousand times more harmful, nasty and despicable than anything Phil did or said. It's not even a fair comparison.
 

EagleEyes

Member
In complete context yes, perfectly OK, because the seething, ignorant, misinformed masses of Internet Crusaders who spammed his Twitter account did so swinging their sword at a windmill and deserve nothing but scorn. They are a thousand times more harmful, nasty and despicable than anything Phil did or said. It's not even a fair comparison.
Don't bring common sense to this thread. There hasn't been any since it began and we sure as heck don't need any now. :p
 

Riggs

Banned
In complete context yes, perfectly OK, because the seething, ignorant, misinformed masses of Internet Crusaders who spammed his Twitter account did so swinging their sword at a windmill and deserve nothing but scorn.
Ya well I wasn't spamming him. And other people being assholes in return for him being an asshole, does not give him impunity to be, you guessed it, an asshole. I love the internet it makes jerks like this less able to hide and easier to call out. Defend him, but act like a shithead and it will come back everytime.
 
This is the problem with bumping huge, old threads: none of the new posters bother to read any of it, make false assumptions and repeat arguments already had twice over.

The original backlash to these comments was that the comment was in response to a question asked by a Japanese developer from the audience. Phil and later John Blow said this stuff directly to this guy's face and on the surface it seemed like the Japanese guy was humiliated. Whether or not what he said was true is completely besides the point (and obviously patently incorrect). They laughed it off during the panel and he clarified his comments further which wasn't reported on. If you still this day in age fall for sound bite journalism then god fucking help you; you're just being willfully ignorant and taken advantage of.

Phil and the Japanese developer found each other on Twitter later and everyone made up and said sorry.

That's why Im surprised this thread isn't locked yet. I guess noone asked a mod.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
In complete context yes, perfectly OK, because the seething, ignorant, misinformed masses of Internet Crusaders who spammed his Twitter account did so swinging their sword at a windmill and deserve nothing but scorn. They are a thousand times more harmful, nasty and despicable than anything Phil did or said. It's not even a fair comparison.

Phil deserved one of his absolutely oafish behavioural malfunctions to finally blow up in his face. It was a lesson that needed learning, and hopefully it will stay learnt over the passage of time and not be lost in egomania.

The current hot "shit Phil Fish says that comes back to kick his ass" tour-de-force is his comments about testers not deserving credit space all the while pushing out one of the buggiest games of the year. That mouth, it needs a filter.
 

Curufinwe

Member
In complete context yes, perfectly OK, because the seething, ignorant, misinformed masses of Internet Crusaders who spammed his Twitter account did so swinging their sword at a windmill and deserve nothing but scorn. They are a thousand times more harmful, nasty and despicable than anything Phil did or said. It's not even a fair comparison.

What was a thousand times more nasty and despicable than Fish telling some guy to choke on his dick on Twitter and publicly humiliating a fellow developer at GDC?
 
In complete context yes, perfectly OK, because the seething, ignorant, misinformed masses of Internet Crusaders who spammed his Twitter account did so swinging their sword at a windmill and deserve nothing but scorn. They are a thousand times more harmful, nasty and despicable than anything Phil did or said. It's not even a fair comparison.

Why not just take the high road? I very much doubt that he's the only developer receiving really nasty comments on Twitter. I think it's safe to say that Ray and Greg from Bioware have received much harsher comments, but you don't see them lashing out.
 

Riggs

Banned
Don't bring common sense to this thread. There hasn't been any since it began and we sure as heck don't need any now. :p
So I can tell you to suck on my dick, choke on it. Because I had a lot of mean little people on Twitter? Want context? The guy called fish arrogant and asked him what he shipped. He never told fish to suck his cock. Please you guys got nothing in this situation. Bullies and douche bags fucking suck, even if they make great video games.
 
In complete context yes, perfectly OK, because the seething, ignorant, misinformed masses of Internet Crusaders who spammed his Twitter account did so swinging their sword at a windmill and deserve nothing but scorn. They are a thousand times more harmful, nasty and despicable than anything Phil did or said. It's not even a fair comparison.

You know what's the better course of action when you're facing those kind of people?

Not being a douche.

A lot of "famous" people on twitter has to suffer the comments of all kind of people, without going the rude, douche route.


Some high ranking guy at Bioware did indeed lash out at some people vulgarly on Twitter during the Hamburger Hepler incident.

I'm not excusing Fish's crassness, but people are still making a kerfuffle over an innocuous joke taken completely out of context by the media and being willfully ignorant to the whole story which is what this thread was about in the first place.

Actually quite a few journalist went:"Lol those weaboos! japanese games do suuuuuck!" without thinking were the real problem was, an I don't think it was that innocuous no matter how good the japanese guy took it, after all he actually leaved the hall after that.
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Why not just take the high road? I very much doubt that he's the only developer receiving really nasty comments on Twitter. I think it's safe to say that Ray and Greg from Bioware have received much harsher comments, but you don't see them lashing out.

Some high ranking guy at Bioware did indeed lash out at some people vulgarly on Twitter during the Hamburger Hepler incident.

I'm not excusing Fish's crassness, but people are still making a kerfuffle over an innocuous joke taken completely out of context by the media and being willfully ignorant to the whole story which is what this thread was about in the first place.
 

Riggs

Banned
Some high ranking guy at Bioware did indeed lash out at some people vulgarly on Twitter during the Hamburger Hepler incident.

I'm not excusing Fish's crassness, but people are still making a kerfuffle over an innocuous joke taken completely out of context by the media and being willfully ignorant to the whole story which is what this thread was about in the first place.
Ya now its about him telling a guy to suck his cock and choke on it. You can't pick and choose to only defend half of this.
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Ya now its about him telling a guy to suck his cock and choke on it. You can't pick and choose to only defend half of this.

I guess I don't see that as anything warranting discussion if you know the entire story, saw it unfold and understand the proper context of what was happening at the time. Saying "choke on it suck my dick" to some dumb assholes chiding him on the internet based on misinformation and ignorance doesn't really bother me at all.
 
I'm not excusing Fish's crassness, but people are still making a kerfuffle over an innocuous joke taken completely out of context by the media and being willfully ignorant to the whole story which is what this thread was about in the first place.

Are you talking about his Japanese games suck comment or his comment toward some guy on Twitter? Because if that Japanese game comment was really taken out of context and if he was really sorry for saying it then he wouldn't have posted the same thing on Twitter after making the comment at GDC. This was his initial "apology"

im sorry japanese guy! i was a bit rough, but your country's games are fucking terrible nowadays.
 

Derrick01

Banned
- He was being an ass when a japanese guy made him a proper question, basically he and the whole audience mocked the poor guy.

- He later started being an ass on twitter, instead of recognizing that he was wrong, not his actual comment about the japanese industry he's entitled to his own opinion, but the fact he was rude and an a douche.

- After several more assholery comments he finally says he's sorry.

So yeah, it was never about "japan sucks".

Alright so it's just because he was blunt and rude. I got it now.
 
Are you talking about his Japanese games suck comment or his comment toward some guy on Twitter? Because if that Japanese game comment was really taken out of context and if he was really sorry for saying it then he wouldn't have posted the same thing on Twitter after making the comment at GDC. This was his initial "apology"

Jesus christ? That was his apology? What a dick.
 

Glass Rebel

Member
Are you talking about his Japanese games suck comment or his comment toward some guy on Twitter? Because if that Japanese game comment was really taken out of context and if he was really sorry for saying it then he wouldn't have posted the same thing on Twitter after making the comment at GDC. This was his initial "apology"

Lol, what an apology. I want to give him the benefit of doubt because it's twitter and only 140 chars... but on the other hand it's Fish.
 

EagleEyes

Member
So I can tell you to suck on my dick, choke on it. Because I had a lot of mean little people on Twitter? Want context? The guy called fish arrogant and asked him what he shipped. He never told fish to suck his cock. Please you guys got nothing in this situation. Bullies and douche bags fucking suck, even if they make great video games.
No i meant to quote his first statement at the top of the page. So you need to calm down my friend. His original post at the top is absolutely correct in that we had the exact same things being discussed over a month ago in this thread and there is no real reason for it anymore. But i knew somebody would try and bring it back especially since the game is getting too much attention for some people to handle( a high profile exclusive getting great reviews and selling well).
 

Grymm

Banned
I wonder what the reaction would have been had he said to the Japanese developer "Hello my Asian friend from the land of the rising sun. I must inform you that my opinion of your countrys games during the past decade or so is that they have been quite lackluster and quickly falling behind the standards set by the rest of the world." with a British accent.

He still would have been equally right.
 
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