thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
TxSF is not the same game as SFxT. Just in case things get really confusing for you when Namco starts showing TxSF.
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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"
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TxSF is not the same game as SFxT. Just in case things get really confusing for you when Namco starts showing TxSF.
Haunted
Member
Also, SFxT will be better than TxSF.
It isn't clear at all. Japanese games have been pretty great on handhelds. Better than western games i'd say.
That is consistent with my thoughts on technology. The handhelds were still using tech that Japanese developers were familiar with and that made it simple to continue producing software just as they had been. They have continued to produce great handheld games as a result.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Doesn't really make his point any better though.
Glass Rebel
Member
It probably also has to do that Japanese games focus on game mechanics that are perfectly achievable without the need for graphically impressive engines.
I also wonder if their having to catch up is the reason why we're seeing more Japanese games on PC. I don't think anybody expected Sonic or Dark Souls to be ported.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
Doesn't it? Is saying "I don't like a majority of the games your country's developers are putting out right now" really a controversial viewpoint? But hey, when you have headlines like this:
"GDC 2012: Japanese Developer Openly Mocked During Panel
Fez creator said modern Japanese games suck"
-the outrage doesn't need backing evidence. Openly mocked huh?
That really isn't what he said.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
At least he helped me save 10 bucks for now, I'll buy it if it comes to Steam anyways (not really begging for it, I could play it in my friend's console anyways)
Ya don't say, an exaggerated and untruthful headline designed to attract attention!?
SatelliteOfLove
Member
"Ha, wow, like, that's an insult target I have no respect for either, so now I'm feeling the urge to double-dip on Fez."
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
Fuck that noise, Tekken team is awesome.
Whoa now, that's an opinion just as much as any other, but Resident Evil 5 was a hell of a good game in my eyes. One of the best CO-OP experiences of the generation. Loved the shit out of it.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
My point is that regardless of era Japanese games both produce good and bad.
sixteen-bit
Member
That's not a Japanese game
Yeah, EDF IA was made in North Carolina.
I appreciate your technological angle regarding Japan decline, however I think the collective inability to effectively evolve in business practices has really hurt Japanese publishers and developers.
Looking at this generation's trending business practices -- downloadable content, online connectivity (even in generally single-player games), and more casual-oriented games -- it's easy to see where Japan has faltered.
Even powerhouses like Nintendo initially balked at the idea of downloadable content. Just shy of a year ago, Reggie Philswhatever said, "We're unwilling to sell a piece of a game upfront, and, if you will, force a consumer to buy more later." (Source) Yet, given the 3DS's initially disappointing sales, we've witnessed a major restructuring at Nintendo, and the introduction of an online infrastructure that is more accepting of patches and DLC.
Japanese developers have, for the most part, been unable to create compelling DLC. You have so many fighters (a primarily Eastern genre) shoehorning DLC into their games with locked out characters. JRPGs, which could easily incorporate mission packs as DLC ala Fallout 3 or GTAIV, have failed to generate interest.
So, yes, I agree that we'll see a resurgence of sorts by the Japanese market next cycle, but, in my mind, it has less to do with graphics and tech, and much more to do with marketing and convincing Western audiences that the game is worth getting. Games that have deftly incorporated connectivity alongside obvious value, such as Dark Souls, have done well at retail. So many of the games listed in response to Fish's comments are niche titles that failed to capture the gaming market as a whole, compared to the blockbusters (MGS series) or critical darlings (SotC) from last generation.
Ad hominem. Don't confuse the messenger with the message.
Outside observation sometimes leads to the most rational response, although obviously not in this case. Furthermore, Fish has been in the industry for a long time now.
Honestly though, there are plenty of people out there who don't care about any of this... I don't play online, nor do I care for casual-oriented games in the slightest, and think a lot of DLC is nickel-and-diming (apart from assorted Fallout/Mass Effect 2 mission packs). I like to buy my heavily mechanic-driven single-player/offline game without having to worry about buying new mission packs or different costumes for my characters... like the way things were done in the old days.
I wish they would have succeeded. For every great piece of downloadable content we have 100 worthless downloads which only serve to squeeze an extra dollar out of us. I definitely don't approve of or agree with the downloadable content model and feel that things are getting worse as a result.
That's a different story, however.
I agree with you, but F2P and other emergent money opportunities (Kickstarter) still incorporate the idea introduced by DLC: pay more, get more. I foresee games getting cheaper upfront next generation thanks to digital downloads, but I expect we'll also see a lot more opportunities for microtransactions or advertising in videogames.
Certainly there exist markets for these types of games, but games that sell millions incorporate tend to have one or all of those aforementioned features. I do think with more malleable pricing next generation, we'll see more modest successes like Catherine that are able to expand that section of the market.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
In the end, now that Fez is out, going by my own anectodal experience of course, this stupid shit Fish pulled really came back to bite him in the ass. Lots of people I know didn't get the game, many bloggers/forum dwellers of core gaming skipped it and that kinda lessened the word of mouth's traction to sales that these games usually get.
T
Transhuman
Unconfirmed Member
That's exactly what he later went on to clarify in the panel. People have taken "Your games just suck" so horribly out of context that it's no wonder people take the situation at face-value and instantly assume Fish is a close-minded tool and decide to boycott.
But that doesn't mean the ratio of good games to bad games isn't on the decline.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It certainly convinced me to not buy it, but I have a hard time believing it majorly affected the sales in either way. I imagine most people who bought the game (or didn't buy it) don't even know who Phil Fish is. I may be wrong, though.
Eteric Rice
Member
This is basically why I didn't buy it. Not going to support someone with no class.
Absoludacrous
Member
Same. I would have picked it up out of curiosity before all this went down, but that twitter feed is enough to keep me off the game for good. Oh well, works out, now I can use that money towards Swords & Sworcery
Team Filler
Member
Not really wanting to wade back into this madness, but what rationale did Fish give for not including QA in the credits?
Square Triangle
Member
They wouldn't choke on it. So they were dead to him.
airmangataosenai
Member
"One even came from a Japanese guy!"
For those of you who don't follow Inafune, he's essentially the Japanese game industry's Allen West. He gets trotted out by critics of Japanese culture/the game industry because he agrees unequivocally with their critics. Anytime you see an article critical of their industry you're almost assured to see an Inafune quote in there.
It also should be noted that Inafune is at least in part responsible for the shitty practices at Capcom we all hate: Outsourcing beloved IPs to shitty western devs, mostly out of his unflinching obsession with the west.
guidestone
Banned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ERL20lr1U
Never get tired of linking this.
This is what happens when you let talentless people be on the top of the world.
Never get tired of linking this.
This is what happens when you let talentless people be on the top of the world.
If we're going to rewrite history, why don't we remove slavery along with all memories of JJ and Jeff. There have always been way more crap games than good ones coming out of Japan. We remember the good ones, and it helps that some of the bad ones never came out in the US. But as someone who has been playing games since the NES, I really don't think that quality level has changed. People just harp on the bad games more, and ignore some of the good ones.
Resonance of Fate was an amazing, innovative RPG. Hardly anyone played it.
Riposte
Member
What it means for a videogame to be "good" has changed. Not for the better.
Just for clarification, who are the talentless people you're referring to?
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Riposte
Member
Many people will dismiss Resonance of Fate on character design and plot alone. Moreover, games like Vanquish will often at best only be considered one of many good TPS instead of the best.
guidestone
Banned
boutrosinit
Street Fighter IV World Champion
Judging by the long list of bugs that are propping up even on their own site, there probably wasn't any QA.
Though I find that startling if true, and too hard to believe.
AcceptableGhost
Member
What would it take for Solomon's Key to be a financial hit these days? Remove all the endurance aspects of the game? Painterly art style? I think they jumped the boat by releasing the game too early. They could be puzzle platforming in big money if they had only waited. Maybe they could add like 3 lines of text to allude to it having a "deeper meaning" ("CLIMBING THIS TOWER IS LIKE TRAVERSING MY SOUL")?
QA is obviously subhuman scum, and unworthy of being mentioned in PHIL FISH's game.
QA is obviously subhuman scum, and unworthy of being mentioned in PHIL FISH's game.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
I get that you're trying to be funny, but there's actually a harsh reality embedded in this: Solomon's Key would never ever be a financial hit these days unless it came out on iOS for a dollar. I think that's an indicator for the fact that the game biz is broken to an extent. Because it's actually a kickass dumb-game.
It's not on the decline.
In relative terms, the American market ignores platforms that aren't the PS3 or Xbox 360 (because even though everyone loves Nintendo's games, somehow they never enter this discussion), and Japan ignores those platforms. So what you have is a bunch of American players saying that the Japanese games they play suck (on PS3 and 360), because the Japanese market (and therefore its developers and publishers and therefore its best games) have shifted largely to portable platforms, which the American players (and more to the point, gaming press) generally ignore.
Of course you think Japanese games suck if you only look at the HD platforms. That's not where the good Japanese games are this gen, for the most part. It's shortsighted. It's like a Japanese player saying FPS games suck nowadays, because their market is focused on PSP, DS and to lesser extent Wii.
You sound embittered and overprotective of your hobby.
There is nothing wrong with allowing thoughtful analysis of games. What may seem obvious to you, these ideas of choice in non-linear narrative, is not so easily observed by outsiders. I see no harm is portraying videogames as something more than the violent, power-fantasies they're depicted as in the media.
edit: unless you guys really are just pissed that they're all plaid-wearing hipsters.
It was odd they tried to illustrate that with Bioshock, whose whole point is the player really doesn't have any choice, and that you're driven by a compulsion beyond your control.
This ties directly into the illusion of free-will she mentioned though, so that when it is eventually shattered near the conclusion of Bioshock it's that much more affecting.
Also, it could be extended into a parallel for our idea of free-will in real life compared to our strict societal bounds.
Shows how little you know. Eric Zimmerman is probably the most important writer on game design in the world. Any aspiring game designer should read his book Rules of Play. And you may think that writing and analysing is not necessary, but if gaming as a medium wants to become adult, we need proper design theories and literature so people dont keep inventing the wheel over and over.
kurtrussell
Banned
Meh.
I don't buy indie games any more. I just wait for them to turn up in bundles.
linko9
Member
Well that's out of the question for this particular game...
I'm boycotting the lack of a PC version. That's the developer comment that irks me.
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