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[muu]

Isn't the 'worst case scenario' what's being played out in Japan now? Horrid sales, no games coming out, talks of system instability being spread like wildfire, buggy games making the situation worse and reaffirming the fact for a number of people, biggest hopeful title something that would have been a mid-tier 200-300k seller last gen. the bug situation is especially going to be hard to recover from. Most Japanese retailers' return policies suck so unreliable hardware is often avoided; users with bricked Vitas at launch likely spooked a lot of people, and damage control through sold-out gaming blogs did not seem to help. The fiasco w/ Ciel no Surge is likely to remind people of these events and make life even more difficult.

There may/may not be light at the end of the tunnel in the form of E3 announcements, but honestly I have a hard time believing the situation can get much worse than it is now.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

There may/may not be light at the end of the tunnel in the form of E3 announcements, but honestly I have a hard time believing the situation can get much worse than it is now.

I tend to agree with this, realistic worst case scenario right now would probably be nothing changing. And if that's the case, I think we'll see a Gamecube like response to the system in general from the industry and consumers; a couple years of steadily decreasing relevancy and support followed maybe by a platform/direction rethink.

 

[Blue Submarine No. 6]

Dude, whatever you're smoking is bad, bad stuff. It would probably be best to get off it.

Just because you didn't mind leaving your UMD collection behind doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't is making up excuses. I upgraded from my PSP 1000 to the 2000 as soon as it came out but I skipped the PSPGo entirely. Want to guess why?

uh, because it was still hackable and you could run CFW on it? Can't think of any reason why you wouldn't upgrade to the 3000, otherwise... (ProTip: you can rip your UMD ISOs and load them on the PSPgo running 6.60pro CFW now: have every game in your library in your breast pocket!)

And the GoW PSP games weren't even the best looking games on PSP so... yeah, that's all that needs to be said about that.

Straw man argument. I never said the GoW games were the best looking on the PSP (but they are definitely up there)... What I said is that I haven't seen any 3DS games that looked significantly better to me. YMMV, but I think if you take the average joe public and hand him a 3DS running RE:R and a PSP3000 running GoW:GoS, they're not going to have a strong preference in terms of graphics either way...

I tend to agree with this, realistic worst case scenario right now would probably be nothing changing. And if that's the case, I think we'll see a Gamecube like response to the system in general from the industry and consumers; a couple years of steadily decreasing relevancy and support followed maybe by a platform/direction rethink.

What the hell? Dude, you do know you're posting on GAF don't you? Get outta here with that well reasoned and feasible analysis...

 

[H_Prestige]

I don't buy the same game across different formats, I just don't see the issue with treating a Handheld & a Console as separate things(especially as there are very few games available on both platforms, & I expect my Wii VC games to be playable on the Wii U), it's not like Nintendo are the only company that thinks like that.

The consoles are different, the games are not. It's exactly like playing FFVII on ps1, ps2, and ps3. You don't pay for the game three different times. Yet Nintendo feels differently about SNES ROM files.

 

[heringer]

Gamecube at least had a fairly strong first party support as well as some multiplatform games.

Neither seem to be a sure thing with the Vita. So, honestly, I think the worst case scenario would be a system even more underwhelming than the GC. Not that I think that's what's actually going to happen.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

The consoles are different, the games are not. It's exactly like playing FFVII on ps1, ps2, and ps3. You don't pay for the game three different times. Yet Nintendo feels differently about SNES ROM files.

I expect Wii VC games to be playable on the Wii U(as I keep saying), until that is shown not to be the case I don't think you can make that claim.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

The consoles are different, the games are not. It's exactly like playing FFVII on ps1, ps2, and ps3. You don't pay for the game three different times. Yet Nintendo feels differently about SNES ROM files.

Nintendo only allows you to pay for SNES ROMs once. 3DS doesn't have any.

 

[Saint Gregory]

uh, because it was still hackable and you could run CFW on it? Can't think of any reason why you wouldn't upgrade to the 3000, otherwise... (ProTip: you can rip your UMD ISOs and load them on the PSPgo running 6.60pro CFW now: have every game in your library in your breast pocket!)

I just CFW'd my PSP for the first time a few months ago and if you re-read my post you'll notice that I said I upgraded to the 2000 as soon as it came out so the 3000 would have been a difficult buy at that point don't you think? I didn't upgrade to the 3000 due to the impressions I read about 2D graphics on the new screen and I didn't even consider the Go at all due to the UMD omission.

My point is still that you can't just assume that everyone is as willing as you are to buy an expensive new handheld that doesn't support their existing library.

Straw man argument. I never said the GoW games were the best looking on the PSP (but they are definitely up there)... What I said is that I haven't seen any 3DS games that looked significantly better to me. YMMV, but I think if you take the average joe public and hand him a 3DS running RE:R and a PSP3000 running GoW:GoS, they're not going to have a strong preference in terms of graphics either way...

You seem to be throwing this term around a lot. Do you even know what it means?

 

[UncleSporky]

You seem to be throwing this term around a lot. Do you even know what it means?

Straw man argument. You're trying to make it look like he doesn't know what he's talking about to discredit him.

 

[Henry Jones Jr]

I really enjoy my Vita and hope it pulls out of its poor start. But, if it does end up bombing and games just stop coming out for it, I'm planning to buy up every game released on the system. I always thought it would be cool to own a system as well as every game released on that system

 

[massoluk]

Straw man argument. You're trying to make it look like he doesn't know what he's talking about to discredit him.

That's not it...

 

[Saint Gregory]

Straw man argument. You're trying to make it look like he doesn't know what he's talking about to discredit him.

I think he's doing a fine job of that on his own without my help

 

[UncleSporky]

I really enjoy my Vita and hope it pulls out of its poor start. But, if it does end up bombing and games just stop coming out for it, I'm planning to buy up every game released on the system. I always thought it would be cool to own a system as well as every game released on that system

That's not really feasible these days. You'd still end up with a lot of cross platform port garbage from Ubisoft and budget companies, and do digital releases like Minis count?

That's not it...

Actually it is. Literally setting up a "straw man" of his opponent and his ideas, easy to knock over.

The problem is that an overzealous person can apply the phrase to anything at all. Any argument for or against something can be seen as an oversimplification of the issue and thus an attempt to make the target an easy one to argue against.

And talking about the meta-issue of what properly constitutes a straw man distracts from the real problem, such that the phrase probably shouldn't be used at all in this context. It's essentially a useless insult, intended to make yourself appear intelligent when all you really wanted to say was "your argument is stupid."

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I expect Wii VC games to be playable on the Wii U(as I keep saying), until that is shown not to be the case I don't think you can make that claim.

VC games can't even transfer from one Wii to another on a consumer level. Doubt you'll be able to pass from Wii to WiiU.

 

[cw_sasuke]

DsiWare games can't even transfer from one DSi to another on a consumer level. Doubt you'll be able to pass from DSi to 3DS.

fixed, same story it already happened.

 

[Lonely1]

Can't help but feel let down by Vita so far. The main reason is that I bought into the "A Ps3 in your hands" hype, despite of my best knowledge.

Not necessarily only from a tech point of view, but based on software library too. I would love to play Flower and Journey on my vita, a SHP and Dragon's Dogma ports even if they look like a Ps2 game. Even UC:GA and Wipeout were a bit of a letdown. I hate the mission structure introduced in Wipeout Pulse, and UC definitely feels weaker than the Ps3 games (at least 1&2, I have yet to play 3). Plus I don't like sports and fighting games, which seems to be the strongest point for Vita so far.

Also, i was expecting more ports form mobile games in the short term.

 

[Bullza2o]

Worst case scenario "for the Vita" is that the Vita is cancelled.
That might be a best case scenario for Sony as a whole, though.

Sony is dead if it doesn't have Vita.

 

[dreamer3kx]

Sony is dead if it doesn't have Vita.

 

[Cerebral Assassin]

VC games can't even transfer from one Wii to another on a consumer level. Doubt you'll be able to pass from Wii to WiiU.

You can transfer from DS to 3DS, which is a better comparison than Wii > Wii.

 

[UncleSporky]

[IM G]http://ablebrains.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341ca86d53ef0133f581ef1c970b-800wi[/IMG]

Because Vita means life, get it!

 

[Xplatformer]

Worst case? Well, that would end up being the best case for Sony.

The system dies and they put all their R&D and future spendings into making sure the PS4 is a success. That should have been the thinking a year ago, but there is a MOBILE GAMING sony division that wants to stay affloat.

They completely disregarded the fact that a mobile gaming device with the same power as their current system ends up fighting a two border war.

Fighting against PS3 (game $$$)
Fighting against other mobile gaming devices (iPod Touch, Kindle Fire, iPad)


Where is the viable market for the Vita???

I'm looking for a mobile gaming device to supplement my other gaming habits (PC + PS3), not surpass it..or take available disposable revenue from those other two gaming habits. I think more people feel that way than those that want a portable PS3 gaming platform.

 

[sublimit]

As many others i'm sure have already said it all depends on this year's E3 and TGS.Sony for once should put their hands deep into their wallets and buy some third party exclusives as well as support it with top quality first party games.
If they don't then i'm afraid the system will be dead by next year regardless of a price cut or not.

 

[Blue Submarine No. 6]

I think he's doing a fine job of that on his own without my help

Okay, lets see how this conversation has played out so far:

Me: GoW on PSP looks as good as anything I've seen on 3DS

You: GoW aren't even the best looking games on PSP! You smoke dope.

Me: uh ya... okay...

And talking about the meta-issue of what properly constitutes a straw man distracts from the real problem, such that the phrase probably shouldn't be used at all in this context. It's essentially a useless insult, intended to make yourself appear intelligent when all you really wanted to say was "your argument is stupid."

It's a straw man argument because, rather than argue against my assertion (admittedly difficult, since it's only an opinion, but others may choose to disagree) he just makes some irrelevant comment about the quallity of the PSP GoW games relative other PSP games and says " yeah, that's all that needs to be said about that" - he's basically stating that he thinks I'm obviously so clueless my opinion isn't worth consideration. And I do think that argument is "stupid", I'm just too polite to say so.

But all this is derailing my original point, which was never more than simply this: the 3DS graphics aren't some revolutionary leap over the graphic quality of the PSP, despite a 7 year difference in thier date of introduction to the market.

 

[Schobeleth]

I think Sony delivered on a really awesome launch and they spread out the upcoming big releases (Gravity Rush, Resistance, MGS HD, Zero Escape) through this year. What will be really interesting is if the other big contenders like Warrior's Lair (Ruin) and CoD Vita make it this year. The Vita also desperately needs a true Monster Hunter game.

I love it and I've generally only heard great things from other friends who own one or want one, a lot of which were never really into the PS brand of hardware or games. I can't see it failing as people say it will, they've really focused on building a great channel with developers and their dev. kits/tools so..

Right now we're in a bit of a dry spell because it's just after a big launch but the launch was at the tail end of February too mind you - most game releases are either in February-March or Fall. There are usually rarities peppered in here and there but usually releases get clumped together.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

I still have hope that the Vita will pick up, but looking at Gamestop's coming soon section for the rest of the year, it's not looking so hot right now.

Maybe there will be more games announced or revealed at E3.

The PSP took awhile to take off so I expect the same, although the Vita's success will depend on how viable it is in Japan.

Vita's Japan's success = success here. But I hope western developers start developing titles for it soon. Even if it's just enhanced ports of console games, anything to bring more titles to it.

 

[Henry Jones Jr]

That's not really feasible these days. You'd still end up with a lot of cross platform port garbage from Ubisoft and budget companies, and do digital releases like Minis count?

Just physical releases. And I also wouldn't pick up yearly sports titles. Cross platform ports could make things tricky. This is only my plan is the system bombs hard and games literally stop coming out for it in the next year or so. Sony will probably never let that happen and keep trickling out titles for the next 4-5 years.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Where is the viable market for the Vita???

Both. It's entirely possible to appeal to both types. The core console experience in portable form -and- low priced potato chip games. Problem is they're shooting themselves in the foot in regards to pricing for the latter.

Why is Plants vs Zombies $3 on iOS yet it's $15 on PSN? That's a 5x price increase between platforms. Shit like that is why PSN won't be a decent focus for smaller studios.

 

[JumpJeff84]

I really, really like the Vita. I hope games keep comin' out.

 

[UncleSporky]

Okay, lets see how this conversation has played out so far:

Me: GoW on PSP looks as good as anything I've seen on 3DS

You: GoW aren't even the best looking games on PSP! You smoke dope.

Me: uh ya... okay...

This is the exact definition of a straw man argument. Oversimplifying your opponent's statements to make him look foolish - setting him up as a straw man to be easily knocked over. Don't you agree?

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

fixed, same story it already happened.

Pretty much. Anyone who claims Nintendo isn't likely to have a transfer path just isn't paying attention. We're most likely going to be able to bring 99% of our VC/WiiWare content over to our Wii Us.

 

[Oppo]

Guys the system is 9 weeks old in North America.

You don't need to panic just yet.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Okay, lets see how this conversation has played out so far:

Me: GoW on PSP looks as good as anything I've seen on 3DS

You: GoW aren't even the best looking games on PSP! You smoke dope.

Me: uh ya... okay...


It's a straw man argument because, rather than argue against my assertion (admittedly difficult, since it's only an opinion, but others may choose to disagree) he just makes some irrelevant comment about the quallity of the PSP GoW games relative other PSP games and says " yeah, that's all that needs to be said about that" - he's basically stating that he thinks I'm obviously so clueless my opinion isn't worth consideration. And I do think that argument is "stupid", I'm just too polite to say so.

But all this is derailing my original point, which was never more than simply this: the 3DS graphics aren't some revolutionary leap over the graphic quality of the PSP, despite a 7 year difference in thier date of introduction to the market.

See, that's where you're your wrong. My comment about your choice of game was simply to point out that I don't believe that the GoW PSP games are the best choice to compare graphics with other systems. Can you find a 3DS game that looks worse, sure but there are several already that look better so I'm not sure what your point was other than to reference how bad your eyesight is apparently.

Also, the entire exchange that you summarized in your post never happened. I was mocking your comment that anyone who chose not to pick up the Vita at launch because of the lack of UMD support was making excuses, or "strawmen" using your context, when I suggested that you quit smoking... whatever it may be.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Yeaaaaaaaaah plenty of 3DS games look better than anything the PSP can produce. You find me a Kid Icarus/Resident Evil/Street Fighter IV equivalent.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Guys the system is 9 weeks old in North America.

You don't need to panic just yet.

The sales in Japan are dismal though. And that's the one market where Sony can make a tidy profit free from currency issues brought on by the strong Yen.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

The sales in Japan are dismal though. And that's the one market where Sony can make a tidy profit free from currency issues brought on by the strong Yen.

Are there any games on the system that appeals to that market?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Pretty much. Anyone who claims Nintendo isn't likely to have a transfer path just isn't paying attention. We're most likely going to be able to bring 99% of our VC/WiiWare content over to our Wii Us.

Why would you say that when DSi content can't be transfered to 3DS?

Guys the system is 9 weeks old in North America.

You don't need to panic just yet.

The "new to me" excuses don't work with gaming systems. Look at the PS3. Even way before launch MGS4 and FFXIII were announced.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Are there any games on the system that appeals to that market?

I don't know, I typically don't follow Japanese games. But there should be games that appeal to that market. It's been out for almost 6 months now, right?

It's a problem.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I don't know, I typically don't follow Japanese games. But there should be games that appeal to that market. It's been out for almost 6 months now, right?

It's a problem.

Agreed. That *is* a problem.

 

[BigDug13]

I don't buy the same game across different formats, I just don't see the issue with treating a Handheld & a Console as separate things(especially as there are very few games available on both platforms, & I expect my Wii VC games to be playable on the Wii U), it's not like Nintendo are the only company that thinks like that.

You do not see the issue. I do. I doubt that I am alone. So between me and others, that is lost sales in the eshop.

Nintendo is not the only company who thinks like that. And similar companies like that will all be crushed in their online game stores by the iOS model. Nintendo wants me to pay $5 for an NES ROM multiple times. They are smoking crack. That is my point.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Why would you say that when DSi content can't be transfered to 3DS?

???

When I picked up my 3DS I was able to transfer my games to it from two different DSis. It was slow and painful but the application works.

 

[Phife Dawg]

Are there any games on the system that appeals to that market?

Bring on the lists! From the top of my head:

Mina no Golf
Dynasty Warriors
Pro Baseball Spirits
Gravity Rush
Lord of Apocalypse (sequel to Lord of Arcana - relatively successful on PSP)
Tales of Innocence
Shinobido 2
Ragnarok

So there are quite a few, with the exception of MnG, DW and Baseball Spirits it lacks the big hitters. But if you look at successful PSP software you'll see that it's mainly MH, MH clones, FF, MGS, Gundam and KH. MH and KH are 3DS for now. In terms of appealing, successful and established software series that leaves MGS, Gundam, FF and "MH clones".

Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Battle Destiny will come in June I think.

But I think what PSV needs is more original concepts and games such as Gravity Rush

 

[boiled goose]

I don't buy the same game across different formats, I just don't see the issue with treating a Handheld & a Console as separate things(especially as there are very few games available on both platforms, & I expect my Wii VC games to be playable on the Wii U), it's not like Nintendo are the only company that thinks like that.

They should be unified though.
It is in nintendo's best interest.

It should be a single store. Single user account.
Some games can be played on multiple hardware, some games only in some.

It is the ideal solution.

We are in an era where services are the key, not hardware.

Consumers want a 'Nintendo Account'.
Consumers want to be able to transfer contacts, songs, apps, games, etc. between their different devices.
If nintendo does not modernize when it comes to online services, they will be left in the dust.

 

[gogogow]

Why would you say that when DSi content can't be transfered to 3DS?

Huh? I transferred all my DSi games to my 3DS no problem.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Why would you say that when DSi content can't be transfered to 3DS?

VC games can't even transfer from one Wii to another on a consumer level. Doubt you'll be able to pass from Wii to WiiU.

Uh, the DSi and 3DS have content transfer utilities which let you transfer your downloaded content between DSi and 3DS (and from a 3DS to another 3DS) so it's highly likely there will be a similar VC/Wii Ware transfer channel which will let us move all our VC games to Wii U. Any other blatantly incorrect statements you'd like to casually toss out there?

 

[BigDug13]

Uh, the DSi and 3DS have content transfer utilities which let you transfer your downloaded content between DSi and 3DS (and 3DS to 3DS) so it's highly likely there will be a similar VC/Wii Ware transfer channel which will let us move all our VC games to Wii U. Any other blatantly incorrect statements you'd like to casually toss out there?

Still sounds very cumbersome compared to a unified online store with purchases tied to your user account. That is the current successful model in the mobile space and has become the expectation of online game stores.

Steam, GOG, iOS, Android. All provide a record of purchases tied to an account. I don't need a "transfer utility" when I buy a new PC or iPhone.

 

[hatchx]

I tend to agree with this, realistic worst case scenario right now would probably be nothing changing. And if that's the case, I think we'll see a Gamecube like response to the system in general from the industry and consumers; a couple years of steadily decreasing relevancy and support followed maybe by a platform/direction rethink.

That's not very nice. The Gamecube always had games to look forward to and games that could break 300k in Japan.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Still sounds very cumbersome compared to a unified online store with purchases tied to your user account. That is the current successful model in the mobile space and has become the expectation of online game stores.

Oh, I agree 100% but the point still stands that while not great, at least they now have a solution for their portable systems. Hopefully the Wii U's upcoming online user accounts which won't be tied to a single system will finally streamline this.

edit: Also see UncleSporky's post below about their new digital download plans,

 

[UncleSporky]

Still sounds very cumbersome compared to a unified online store with purchases tied to your user account. That is the current successful model in the mobile space and has become the expectation of online game stores.

Steam, GOG, iOS, Android. All provide a record of purchases tied to an account. I don't need a "transfer utility" when I buy a new PC or iPhone.

At the January investors meeting, Iwata said they are making such an account. You will be able to browse to an online store and buy a game for your 3DS while at work, and your 3DS at home will download it automatically and have it waiting for you when you get home.

 

[kitchenmotors]

Why would you say that when DSi content can't be transfered to 3DS?

...

I transfered DSi software from my XL to my 3DS and when I got a Flame Red 3DS, all of that content, including 3DS and Ambassador content, from my old Aqua Blue 3DS to the new one 3DS. It was easy to switch everything over and it's bound to happen for Wii to Wii U.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Why would you say that when DSi content can't be transfered to 3DS?

lol. I pray this is sarcasm.