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[Dreamwriter]

I'd bet holding off on price/release date announcements allows them to keep interest up - it'll make all gaming news stories when they announce the price and release date and all. So they show off the system and the games in June, announce the price in August, release date and exact launch titles in September, and then release the system in October. Once they do the whole E3 reveal they'll want to keep momentum going until release.

 

[BY2K]

THEY NEVER ANNOUNCE PRICE AND LAUNCH DATE AT E3! EVER!

 

[ViewtifulJC]

GiantBomb at E3 2011. No one would play Skyward Sword, and they gave no real reason. They were basically just "LOL ZELDA LOL WII".

Ok, we now have one media outlet that show showed disdain for Zelda/Wii(the article/video in question not linked, notwithstanding). I suppose I'll ignore the very positive review from the Editor-in-Chief from that website who praised the game's motion controls and art direction, and thought it was the best Zelda in many years.

So...we now have that.

 

[BlackJace]

Ah, I wasn't really aware Nintendo had their own events for release date info. My point essentially was that if the Wii U price was announced at E3 (assuming it is competitively priced) it gives yet another reason to start saving and being launch day buyers. The console needs as many "boxes" checked off as it can.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What journalists? Let's point them out. Let's see if Nintendo was in the GotY nominations/discussions. Lets get to the bottom of this. Back-up your argument.



I'll ask again: Explain your argument so the point won't be missed again.

Well, that's not asking me, that's demanding I explain something again for a point you have clearly gotten and are choosing to ignore because you have made it clear you dislike Nintendo fans, but alright. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here that you will at least attempt to understand what I am saying.

Game of the Year awards are about rewarding serious games. There are videos and podcasts of many places including IGN and Giant Bomb saying that it should go to serious, artistic games. The fundamental disagreement between game journalists and Nintendo is that Nintendo doesn't and refuses to make those games. It isn't that Red Dead Redemption is considered the best game of 2010 over Mario Galaxy or Skyrim over Zelda, I don't actually disagree with those choices (well, maybe Skyrim, since I would have said Portal 2). It's that those games are rarely even considered in competition. They are not serious endeavors that push the mediums of video games forward, they're just...video games.

To put it another way, I consider a lot of Pixar movies to be genuinely some of the best movies of the years they're released in. The Oscar committee went out of their way to ensure those movies don't end up in the same categories as the big boys. Game journalism does that to Nintendo games by waving them off. I don't actually care, I came in to the argument halfway and seriously don't give two shits what game journalism does, I'm just stating that's what happens.

 

[chris3116]

I wonder why Nintendo won't announce the price and release date of the Wii U at E3? Sony did with the Vita, and the competitive pricing alongside the 3DS made a huge positive impact. If they price it competitive as well, it gives people a lot more incentive to be launch day buyers.

And it can shut up IGN and their "Wii U Price Headache" nonsense.

They did the same thing with the Wii. E3 2006 : no release dates and no price. Nintendo made a fall conference. They give every information for the Wii release.

Expect the same thing.

 

[VariantX]

Sample IGN review:

Having a map on the subscreen doesn't add anything to Call of Duty. Forcing players to control the UAV on the Wii U remote forces them to look away from the main screen which leaves the player vulnerable to attack. Score:8.0

I'm looking forward to that review from whatever publication/reviewer so I can laugh a little. Calling up airstrikes or aiming mortars obscures the whole damn screen anyway to bring up the interface in which you move the cursor around and pick your targets. Getting shot would just be making a lame excuse for the risk anyone takes in deploying those things anyway. That's the whole point in trying to find an out of the way place to deploy them anyway.

 

[BY2K]

Ok, we now have one media outlet that show showed disdain for Zelda/Wii. I suppose I'll ignore the very positive review from the Editor-in-Chief from that website who praised the game's motion controls and art direction, and thought it was the best Zelda in many years.

So...we now have that.

IIRC, he didn't. Quite the opposite, in fact.

EDIT: Well, not the EC, but the official Gamespot review still says bad controls.

 

[AceBandage]

Ok, we now have one media outlet that show showed disdain for Zelda/Wii. I suppose I'll ignore the very positive review from the Editor-in-Chief from that website who praised the game's motion controls and art direction, and thought it was the best Zelda in many years.

So...we now have that.

Doesn't matter if they latter changed their mind.
The fact that they wouldn't play the newest game in a multi million selling series at E3 shows an obvious bias.
Sorry if you're getting so upset and just feel that you have to defend gaming journalists over this, but it's been plainly obvious to most people for years now that this industry is full of man babies.

 

[Roo]

all platforms pretty much

expect some exclusive wii u features

treyarch have nailed the wii remote controls, so this is going to be great !

Let's wait to see if we're even getting the game at all

 

[Deguello]

Well if you want me to get bitter about it...

Major game media publications have a reputation, since 2008, for deriding Nintendo pretty regularly for the sin of making games that aren't the same games as the games that they would like to see Nintendo make or games that their competitors make. Or in layman's terms, (their terms), casual grandma whatever.

Deserved or not, backed up by evidence or not, this is their reputation as a whole, and thus, being in full control of their perceptions and reputations, it is up to them to fix it.

 

[Nilaul]

You realize they did the exact same thing with the 3DS, right?

And some countries were getting really really really ripped off. In greece all the retailers made a deal between them and decided that they were going to sell it 270 instead of 230.

 

[test_account]

Edge are somewhat of an anomaly in that they're unrepentant in their love of Nintendo and their franchises. Bunch of luddites.

I just checked many of the more famous gaming websites, and i see that many of them had Super Mario Galaxy 2 as a nominee for GOTY 2010. From what i can see, it doesnt seem that the broader pictures of gaming sites are ignoring Nintendo games.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

GiantBomb at E3 2011. No one would play Skyward Sword, and they gave no real reason. They were basically just "LOL ZELDA LOL WII".

XD

those guys love Wii

oh those guys... nevermind

 

[Medalion]

We sure it was lol zelda wii lol and not just lol motion control zelda lol?

 

[AceBandage]

We sure it was lol zelda wii lol and not just lol motion control zelda lol?

I believe one of them said he wouldn't play it because "he was tired of the Zelda formula".

 

[Smiles and Cries]

We sure it was lol zelda wii lol and not just lol motion control zelda lol?

I cannot blame them I did not even purchase Skywards Swords yet... I am hoping to play it on my WiiU... I have Xenoblade sitting here waiting too

 

[ShockingAlberto]

The real point is that Portal 2 should have won over Skyrim.

 

[AceBandage]

The real point is that Portal 2 should have won over Skyrim.

Not "epic" enough.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I am listening to Bombcast right now... lets give them a chance when WiiU comes out... these guys seem to like games they do have some bias still they are fun guys

 

[MisterHero]

We sure it was lol zelda wii lol and not just lol motion control zelda lol?

Well, there was Fi, so they took her presence and magnified the supposed annoyance factor X100.

That time, motion controls and Wii's horsepower weren't the only excuses!

 

[udivision]

Let's wait to see if we're even getting the game at all

really?
This is the only game you can be sure is coming to Wii U.

Heck, CODBLOPSII has a better chance of coming out on Wii U than Pikmin 3 I bet.

 

[Heropon]

I believe one of them said he wouldn't play it because "he was tired of the Zelda formula".

I wonder why people mention so many times the "zelda formula". It isn't like it's much more repetitive than other series.

Why are reviewers being discussed, are they that important?

EDIT: Zelda isn't my 2011 GOTY.

 

[11redder]

Not really.

Many people blindly quote 'Halo 3 [10]' in an effort to undermine Edge. No matter what bandwagon route the Edge critics take, their efforts are always futile.

You got me all wrong, I love Edge. I think they score games fairly regardless of platform based on the gameplay and experience any individual title offers. Do I necessarily agree with all of their scores? Of course not, but I certainly don't think they're unfairly biased towards or against any one platform.

I was trying, and obviously failing, to make the point that they score Nintendo games highly when deserved, based on the fact that they value the great gameplay on offer, rather than crying about jaggies, lack of HD output etc.

 

[BurntPork]

Christ almighty, BurntPork.



It's decent. Not extraordinary, but holding up reasonably. No reason to be shouting from the rooftops, but not selling like shit.

You see that? Moderation of opinion, without jumping to extremes and absurdities. Maybe try it some time.

So when we find out that it only sold 160k in April, will you call it decent?

The economy still isn't great and despite what GAF says, it's quite obvious that people aren't clamoring for new systems right now.

The fact that 360 sold well over 100k more negates that. The economy can handle 50-60k 3DSs per week on average.

 

[AceBandage]

I wonder why people mention so many times the "zelda formula". It isn't like it's much more repetitive than other series.

Why are reviewers being discussed, are they that important?

EDIT: Zelda isn't my 2011 GOTY.

They aren't worth the bandwidth they use, so no.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't really care if anyone has a bias.

As long as it's known and they're not trying to trick people for whatever reason, it's fine. I'm not going to listen to Jeff Gerstmann about Mortal Kombat games because he loves them too much to be objective.

No one looking for an unbiased opinion on Mortal Kombat games should listen to me because I hate them a lot.

 

[NateDrake]

So when we find out that it only sold 160k in April, will you call it decent?



The fact that 360 sold well over 100k more negates that. The economy can handle 50-60k 3DSs per week on average.

If the 3DS moves that figure, it comes out to 200-240k a month, right where the system has been in 2012.

 

[DrWong]

Interview: Trent Oster about MDK2, the WiiWare, Wii U...

 

[HylianTom]

Skyrim definitely became more popular and had longer lasting coverage by the media and the fanbase than Skyward Sword did. Viral videos about Skyrim spread around, while Skyward Sword doesn't even get that many Let's Plays.

Skyrim simply connected more with people.

Yeah, I can't complain one bit about Skyrim winning. I love Elder Scrolls games almost as much as I do the Zelda series, so I can see how Skyrim could win.

And I completely forgot about Giantbomb pulling that stunt with Skyward Sword.

It reminds me of when I stopped listening to 1Up's podcasts when Luke Sm!th would shit-up lots of their episodes with his Wii bashing; he openly wished for third-party status, calling his Wii a "Zelda playing machine." In very stark-as-can-be contrast, one would never, ever hear a gaming media personality wishing for the equivalent for MS or Sony.

I pretty much gave-up on the main sites' podcasts after 1Up's nonsense. Matt Cassamassina leaving IGN was the final nail in that coffin. The majors either looked down their snooty, elitist noses to Nintendo content - or they outright lied and claimed that there wasn't enough subject matter to discuss every week, instead electing to discuss in detail the different weapons in the FPS-of-the-week.

What kills me is that every week, there are several Nintendo-centric podcasts that fill over an hour of fresh discussion. Out the window goes that "there's nothing to talk about Nintendo-wise" argument!

I find it pretty interesting that, right around when I gave-up on the major sites, fan-run Nintendo-centric podcasts began to spring-up around the internet. Apparently, for some reason strange reason, Nintendo fans were seeking podcast programming elsewhere. Very interesting, eh?

I do not see this as mere coincidence.

I don't really care if anyone has a bias.

As long as it's known and they're not trying to trick people for whatever reason, it's fine. I'm not going to listen to Jeff Gerstmann about Mortal Kombat games because he loves them too much to be objective.

No one looking for an unbiased opinion on Mortal Kombat games should listen to me because I hate them a lot.

Exactly!
Don't profess to be a site "for gamers" and then proceed to alienate a huge population of gamers because they like something you don't.

I have no problem with fanboys, as I am one myself (and I don't apologize for it). But I do have a problem with fanboy journalists who try to pass themselves off as Neutrals. Just be honest about it so that I don't have to waste my time.

 

[BlackJace]

The real point is that Portal 2 should have won over Skyrim.

Thank you. Why games are taken at face value is beyond me.

Portal 2 demonstrated many facets of a well-rounded game. It had the best script of the year IMO, the story was fun and interesting, the core mechanics worked flawlessly, etc.

Skyrim, a game riddled with flaws, glitches, and bugs, is deemed the better game? Because of what?

 

[one_kill]

Everyone injects a host of assumptions in whatever they do. No one is free from bias.

What's important is to keep one's bias in check.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't really care if anyone has a bias.

As long as it's known and they're not trying to trick people for whatever reason, it's fine. I'm not going to listen to Jeff Gerstmann about Mortal Kombat games because he loves them too much to be objective.

No one looking for an unbiased opinion on Mortal Kombat games should listen to me because I hate them a lot.

I feel slightly different. I prefer to listen to people who are fans of a game (and therefore might have a level of bias towards it) if I am a fan of the series as well, because then if it's disappointing I know it's more likely to be disappointing because a fan said so. Whereas an unbiased person could go either way and may not capture my feelings.

Hard to explain. But at the same time I don't want some slobbering fanboy or ignorant hater reviewing my shit. Balance.

Actually you might be saying the exact same thing

 

[one_kill]

Thank you. Why games are taken at face value is beyond me.

Portal 2 demonstrated many facets of a well-rounded game. It had the best script of the year IMO, the story was fun and interesting, the core mechanics worked flawlessly, etc.

Skyrim, a game riddled with flaws, glitches, and bugs, is deemed the better game? Because of what?

It had dragons!

 

[AceBandage]

Everyone injects a host of assumptions in whatever they do. No one is free from bias.

What's important is to keep one's bias in check.

Which is the exact opposite of what gaming journalists do.
See: How IGN Nintendo was handled after Matt and Bozon left.
It was a fucking mess. They, literally, trolled their viewers.

 

[BlackJace]

It had dragons!

That get caught in mountains and can't escape!

 

[Luigison]

Portal 2? Great game, but what are the chances of Valve on Wii U?

-Pyromaniac-, your avatar needs updating... as does mine.

 

[HylianTom]

Everyone injects a host of assumptions in whatever they do. No one is free from bias.

What's important is to keep one's bias in check.

These creatures are very, very rare. Most everyone has a preference.
But we have a lot of folks who like to pretend otherwise. And they like to claim that having a preference is wrong.

 

[BurntPork]

Let's wait to see if we're even getting the game at all

95% chance.

Also, there's this article from last year that I just remembered. http://www.gamespot.com/news/next-gen-call-of-duty-in-works-at-treyarch-6338153

No other new console launching this year, and last October is too early to start work on CoD 2014, so...

If the 3DS moves that figure, it comes out to 200-240k a month, right where the system has been in 2012.

Not in January, February is always an up month, and March has 5 weeks meaning 250-300k at that rate. April will reached 180k in the absolute best case.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I feel slightly different. I prefer to listen to people who are fans of a game (and therefore might have a level of bias towards it) if I am a fan of the series as well, because then if it's disappointing I know it's more likely to be disappointing because a fan said so. Whereas an unbiased person could go either way and may not capture my feelings.

Hard to explain. But at the same time I don't want some slobbering fanboy or ignorant hater reviewing my shit. Balance.

Actually you might be saying the exact same thing

yeah this is about right...

its fun to listen to someone who just has love for games too and if they are down on a game for a good reason then I'm all for that too

if there is a game you love and enjoy it feels better when you hear from others who have that same feeling for the game

I guess that is the whole reason we are here in this thread too to share in the experience

 

[BlackJace]

Portal 2? Great game, but what are the chances of Valve on Wii U?

-Pyromaniac-, your avatar needs updating... as does mine.

Pretty decent if Nintendo is open to having Steam integration. Take the Steam app on Android. The Wii U controller could handle that excellently. Chat with your steam buddies on the controller, browse your library, add items to wish list..

 

[Agent Unknown]

I wonder why Nintendo won't announce the price and release date of the Wii U at E3? Sony did with the Vita, and the competitive pricing alongside the 3DS made a huge positive impact. If they price it competitive as well, it gives people a lot more incentive to be launch day buyers.

And it can shut up IGN and their "Wii U Price Headache" nonsense.

Funny how you don't see any IGN headlines about "Sony's Vita Headaches" or "Sony's Potential PS4 Problems."

 

[Medalion]

Gaben believes in the Wii-U... and U should too!

 

[Deguello]

Which is the exact opposite of what gaming journalists do.
See: How IGN Nintendo was handled after Matt and Bozon left.
It was a fucking mess. They, literally, trolled their viewers.

This is true. I wonder if IGN's readership loss was a direct result of this. I mean nobody wants to go to a website and be called an idiot as the top story.

This is not to say that other console manufacturers don't ever get their noses tweaked by the big game media, but there are certain indignities Nintendo usually suffers that the others are spared. For instance, EGA quite publicly refusing to review Endless Ocean as they view it as a "non-game." This was not simply the absence of a review. It was space in the magazine dedicated to not review something. And when the readers complained, as would be normal for anybody who paid for non-content (irony), they essentially mocked the game again. Endless Ocean is a spiritual sequel to Everblue, and EGM previously had no compunctions with reviewing it. Why the sudden jabs at the game, the Publisher Nintendo, and the Wii?

Who can say? But one does wonder.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Well, that's not asking me, that's demanding I explain something again for a point you have clearly gotten and are choosing to ignore because you have made it clear you dislike Nintendo fans, but alright. I will give you the benefit of the doubt here that you will at least attempt to understand what I am saying.

Game of the Year awards are about rewarding serious games. There are videos and podcasts of many places including IGN and Giant Bomb saying that it should go to serious, artistic games. The fundamental disagreement between game journalists and Nintendo is that Nintendo doesn't and refuses to make those games. It isn't that Red Dead Redemption is considered the best game of 2010 over Mario Galaxy or Skyrim over Zelda, I don't actually disagree with those choices (well, maybe Skyrim, since I would have said Portal 2). It's that those games are rarely even considered in competition. They are not serious endeavors that push the mediums of video games forward, they're just...video games.

To put it another way, I consider a lot of Pixar movies to be genuinely some of the best movies of the years they're released in. The Oscar committee went out of their way to ensure those movies don't end up in the same categories as the big boys. Game journalism does that to Nintendo games by waving them off. I don't actually care, I came in to the argument halfway and seriously don't give two shits what game journalism does, I'm just stating that's what happens.

How was hard that? Actually articulating your perception of the basis for the gaming media's GOTY choices as an example of their negative bias towards Nintendo. You also make an excellent comparison with the way the Oscar committee works. They are old and out of touch, and many of their Best Picture awards go to similar types of films(dramas and period pieces, mostly white actors, if the protagonist is retarded or perhaps a victim of the Holocaust, it's pretty much a done deal). It's much easier to point out the Oscars because they have so much history of doing this, where this supposed "bias against Nintendo games" would have to be a recent phenom, as Super Mario Galaxy won dozens and dozens of GotY awards less then five years ago.

I'm still not very convinced. You use a lot of qualifiers that open the ground for a LOT of interpretation, and the perception of the negative bias conflicts with many other poster's ideas of what this negative bias looks like, but I understand your point of view a little more. I don't think we'll convince either of us are wrong about this mostly subjective idea, so I'll respectfully disagree, and thank you for addressing me like an actual adult.

Doesn't matter if they latter changed their mind.
The fact that they wouldn't play the newest game in a multi million selling series at E3 shows an obvious bias.
Sorry if you're getting so upset and just feel that you have to defend gaming journalists over this, but it's been plainly obvious to most people for years now that this industry is full of man babies.

And here's the opposite side of the spectrum for responses. Accusatory, character-attacking, constant decline to back up statements with any kind of substance. Oh well.

 

[Roo]

What are our chances?

 

[AceBandage]

How was hard that? Actually articulating your perception of the basis for the gaming media's GOTY choices as an example of their negative bias towards Nintendo. You also make an excellent comparison with the way the Oscar committee works. They are old and out of touch, and many of their Best Picture awards go to similar types of films(dramas and period pieces, mostly white actors, if the protagonist is retarded or perhaps a victim of the Holocaust, it's pretty much a done deal). It's much easier to point out the Oscars because they have so much history of doing this, where this supposed "bias against Nintendo games" would have to be a recent phenom, as Super Mario Galaxy won dozens and dozens of GotY awards less then five years ago.

I'm still not very convinced. You use a lot of qualifiers that open the ground for a LOT of interpretation, and the perception of the negative bias conflicts with many other poster's ideas of what this negative bias looks like, but I understand your point of view a little more. I don't think we'll convince either of us are wrong about this mostly subjective idea, so I'll respectfully disagree, and thank you for addressing me like an actual adult.



And here's the opposite side of the spectrum for responses. Accusatory, character-attacking, constant decline to back up statements with any kind of substance. Oh well.

Hmmm... Anyone see the hypocrisy here? Sorry, but when you're being horribly condescending to people, you don't really have the room to be uppity with people.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Portal 2? Great game, but what are the chances of Valve on Wii U?

-Pyromaniac-, your avatar needs updating... as does mine.

my avatar shall not change until a worthy replacement comes along, I'm very picky. I'm looking for something timeless, something I will never have to change for a long time.

 

[Snakeyes]

snip

The biased journalists have Nintendo-envy. The best franchises in the industry will never appear on their systems of choice barring a major fuck-up, so they shun Ninty's platforms on purpose to drive away consumer interest in hopes that they go third-party one day.

I hate to channel my inner BurntPork but there's really no other explanation. You don't see reputed tech sites giving Apple the same treatment.

 

[Christberg]

I'm looking forward to that review from whatever publication/reviewer so I can laugh a little. Calling up airstrikes or aiming mortars obscures the whole damn screen anyway to bring up the interface in which you move the cursor around and pick your targets. Getting shot would just be making a lame excuse for the risk anyone takes in deploying those things anyway. That's the whole point in trying to find an out of the way place to deploy them anyway.

Oh, it'll totally happen. The map part in particular is a 100% lock. Maybe not necessarily for this game per se, but count on it.

And yes, maps are an obvious use for the second screen we've seen before that games have been trashed for using on the DS. It's not revolutionary but it's damn useful. Even in a game like CoD where the map more or less amounts to a long tunnel.

I predict we'll see it within a day of review embargoes ending, or possibly even before at E3 in somebody's preview.