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[Neiteio]

Vane, can't hurt to rent Kid Icarus. If nothing else you'd get some entertainment out of experiencing the script and scenario. I would hope you would max out the vertical and horizontal aiming speed, and max out the reticule's stopping speed. I would also just take it slow at first, drink it up, treat each encounter like a tactical back-and-forth rather than bum-rushing each baddy. Then you grow into it, rather than against it.

Prior to playing the game, I was the sharpest critic of the game, saying the stand meant something was wrong. I was attacked for thinking this in the official thread. And while I don't think I was right to be attacked for doubting, it turns out that in my case, I -was- wrong. I ended up loving the controls, without using the stand, and I had them down pat within a few levels.

Everyone's mileage will vary, but this really is a game where if you keep at it, it will in all likelihood click, even if for some people it takes longer than others.

Also note: The first time through the game, stick to Intensity 2.0 for the first few levels, and only then start slowly ramping it up. From 2.0-4.0 is medium; resist the temptation to jump straight to higher levels, because they are HARD (and intentionally so). I think one's hand tenses up when they don't know what's coming, so a 2.0 first run through any given level might be best. The game keeps you on your toes.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I go by the reviews and the complaints about the controls kept me from buying it. I have wasted too much money on bad games. I guess the reviewers may have been too critical because so many people here swear by the controls.

I won't buy it though until I rent it to try the controls for myself. This thread has been very educational.

You give reviews too much credibility.

 

[Lonely1]

I still don't follow.

Everyone makes compromises to play the games they want, don't pretend otherwise. The truth is that I haven't touched my Ps3 for very long time because of that reason. While don't play with your Wii because you don't want to close your curtains. Both requires compromises that we aren't willing to do.

Wii offered much better aiming controls than the other systems but you didn't want to shut down your curtains. The Ps3 offers great games that I'm not playing because I can't be bothered to go down to my living room.

 

[KenOD]

I refuse to play anything that doesn't let me use an intellivison controller.

Why won't someone think of traditional controls

 

[Vane_MagicCity]

Uh, let's go back to this for a second and be clear: at no time did Aonuma want to do Skyward Sword "without motion controls." The only sticking point was whether they would use MotionPlus or not. This is not a valid example to further your agenda.

Ok, fair enough. Mootion Plus was the new gimmick and Nintendo pushed to have those controls in SS.

Motion Plus is where Skyward Sword went wrong. The waggle in Twilight Princess worked much better. I just didn't like that instead of adding a swing to the usual button press, you actually had to worry about holding the Wiimote the correct way and swinging the correct way and that just took some of the fun out of it. I play Zelda to explore and the swordplay is fun if it isn't overly complicated.

If Skyward Sword were truly 1:1 and if the enemies weren't dependant on being hit a certain way, it would have been great. Why couldn't I wildy swing my arm and my sword on screen do the same thing? Why would the hit not count if it isn't done at a certain angle? If I get hit with a sword, it's gonna do damage no matter which angle I get hit from.

Vane, can't hurt to rent Kid Icarus. If nothing else you'd get some entertainment out of experiencing the script and scenario. I would hope you would max out the vertical and horizontal aiming speed, and max out the reticule's stopping speed. I would also just take it slow at first, drink it up, treat each encounter like a tactical back-and-forth rather than bum-rushing each baddy. Then you grow into it, rather than against it.

Prior to playing the game, I was the sharpest critic of the game, saying the stand meant something was wrong. I was attacked for thinking this in the official thread. And while I don't think I was right to be attacked for doubting, it turns out that in my case, I -was- wrong. I ended up loving the controls, without using the stand, and I had them down pat within a few levels.

Everyone's mileage will vary, but this really is a game where if you keep at it, it will in all likelihood click, even if for some people it takes longer than others.

Also note: The first time through the game, stick to Intensity 2.0 for the first few levels, and only then start slowly ramping it up. From 2.0-4.0 is medium; resist the temptation to jump straight to higher levels, because they are HARD (and intentionally so). I think one's hand tenses up when they don't know what's coming, so a 2.0 first run through any given level might be best. The game keeps you on your toes.

Ok thanks

You give reviews too much credibility.

You think I should just drop $40-$60 for every game I am remotely interested in?

 

[Boss Doggie]

You think I should just drop $40-$60 for every game I am remotely interested in?

Nah, I'd rather wait for opinions of people who have played it longer than a few hours. Patience is virtue, after all.

 

[chickdigger802]

O

You think I should just drop $40-$60 for every game I am remotely interested in?

You browse gaf. Quite a bit of impressions in the OT's.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I'm doing what everyone suggests. Its not comfortable, and its not fun controlling the camera with a touch screen or ABXY on ground. You are the one who did it wrong, should have just made the game have a fixed camera or just made the whole game into a rail shooter or actually give the option to use the frankenstick for camera and reticule control instead of doing this hapazard attempt at 3D movement. I don't give a shit if its not as accurate as the stylus aiming, good camera control matters to me and Kid Icarus is terrible with the globe style.

 

[rpmurphy]

I'm doing what everyone suggests. Its not comfortable, and its not fun controlling the camera with a touch screen or ABXY on ground. You are the one who did it wrong, should have just made the game have a fixed camera or just made the whole game into a rail shooter or actually give the option to use the frankenstick for camera and reticule control instead of doing this hapazard attempt at 3D movement. I don't give a shit if its not as accurate as the stylus aiming, good camera control matters to me and Kid Icarus is terrible with the globe style.

Have you tried playing using the touch screen but without the stylus? You can grip it normally. I'd recommend increasing the cursor and camera speeds very high so that you don't need big movements.

 

[FLAguy954]

Without a stylus:

How I play.

*High five*

The only way to play man .

 

[PKrockin]

I keep hearing that you have to use the stand to play the game and you have to hunch over the stand with bad posture when you use it, but that's really not true on either count, so... I guess I agree with him.

 

[branny]

The 3DS isn't comfortable to begin with. Playing with circle pad aiming and ABXY movement was the most enjoyable way for me to go through the game when I didn't want to deal with the stylus, but you'll have to pick your poison on this one.

Uprising is wonderful and worth the trouble, though. Its MP is the closest thing to a Phantom Dust sequel we'll ever get. I hope more people give it a chance. It's really a pity that the controls are causing issues for those who probably would otherwise love the game.

 

[KenOD]

The reaction to the false quote aside, I'm interested in just how much of it is really "him doing it wrong" for the style of the game. He had a purpose, and plan, a design, and creation that was followed through into the final product.

While I understand the disappointment or anger over not being able to play the game, or playing the game and having to force one's self through it due to the controls and any issues, how much of it is really "doing it wrong" from a developer and creation stand point? Not every game has to be perfectly playable by everyone in order "to do it right". As someone who has adapted and found himself okay with the controls, I have to say I'm thankful it wasn't changed so that anyone could play it or create a different game experience it. A fixed camera or just a rail shooter alone wouldn't have been as fun for me.

Do note I'm just saying for what the controls are now on ground, I still agree with the idea we should have gotten more options even if it meant a slight delay.

 

[Anonymous Tipster]

The waggle in Twilight Princess worked much better.

What world am I in?

Can you look yourself in the mirror and honestly say you believe that?

 

[GhostTrick]

He's 100% right. As I said, for many people it's a new control scheme, and new control scheme requires more or less training.
The first time I played a game with dual stick (classic control scheme: move the character with left stick, move the camera with right stick), I found it complicated, and had to stop moving to use the camera. Now, dual stick feels just so natural.
The first time I played a FPS on PC, I found it totally shitty to use ZQSD for moving, and aiming with mouse felt wrong. Now it feels more natural than dual stick.
The first time I played a FPS on DS that requires the same control scheme of Kid Icarus, I found it complicated. Once you know how to hold your console, it feel natural. I can't imagine playing a shooter with dual stick on 3DS now, even with CPP.



edit: Also, I play without the stand, with 3D to the max and I can play anywhere. It feels so natural for me to play Kid Icarus than any other game.

 

[flintstryker]

You know I haven't played this game yet but I can sympathize with the anti touch people if only for the fact that it took me a helluvah long time to get use to dual analogs for shooters and I still don't like it even now, so It could very well be the same thing a work here though.

I do find it annoying though that a scheme I hate is held in such high esteem thereby preventing games from properly progressing to the superior pointer method for consoles.

 

[jgkspsx]

I've put a lot of hours into it and barely used the stand, though sometimes it helps. I just haven't had a problem with the controls. But then, I don't play for hours on end.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Alright let's put this to bed already. If you aren't holding it like this:

you're doing it wrong.

No stand, no legs, just stick the bottom-right corner of the system in your right palm, so it rests on the bottom-left corner of your palm. Curl stylus around to success. This is how I played Metroid Prime Hunters, and it works just as fine for Kid Icarus.

(Warning: may not work with baby-hands.)

Lol. This reminds me when Steve Jobs said this is how you need to hold your Iphone 4. If one needs a special way to play a game, or a peripheral than the controls are less than apt.

 

[GhostTrick]

Alright let's put this to bed already. If you aren't holding it like this:

you're doing it wrong.

No stand, no legs, just stick the bottom-right corner of the system in your right palm, so it rests on the bottom-left corner of your palm. Curl stylus around to success. This is how I played Metroid Prime Hunters, and it works just as fine for Kid Icarus.

(Warning: may not work with baby-hands.)

THIS MAN tell the truth ! Except I prefer have the fourth/ring finger with the two other fingers.

 

[vanty]

The first time I played a FPS on PC, I found it totally shitty to use ZQSD for moving, and aiming with mouse felt wrong. Now it feels more natural than dual stick.

That's either a very weird typo, or it is the definition for "doing it wrong".

 

[GhostTrick]

That's either a very weird typo, or it is the definition for "doing it wrong".

I mean the "Z, Q, S, D" buttons on the keyboard + I'm using a french keyboard.
So the buttons are not in the same place than yours.

 

[vanty]

Ah I had no idea French keyboards were that different from qwerty. No problem then ahah.

 

[GhostTrick]

Ah I had no idea French keyboards were that different from qwerty. No problem then ahah.

You can see the differences here

 

[RockmanWhore]

If I play with the stand, I get cramps after an hour or so, without it, I have cramps after 2 minutes. It's a shame because I really love the game outside of the controls

 

[boiled goose]

It may or may not be a vocal minority who dislike the controls, but I think it's guaranteed that the minority's vocalizing is scaring off potential buyers.

Sakurai:
I don't disagree with you that your input method is faster and maybe ultimately 'superior'

yet,

you have get of your high horse and offer options.
Making a game more accessible by giving players more options is rarely a bad thing.
'but but then they wont experience the game like I want them too'
w/e get over it.

If the game is too difficult with an inferior input method then players will eventually try to use the new input method.

Shoving a control scheme down a gamer's throat is not the answer.

 

[udivision]

Sakurai:
I don't disagree with you that your input method is faster and maybe ultimately 'superior'

yet,

you have get of your high horse and offer options.
Making a game more accessible by giving players more options is rarely a bad thing.
'but but then they wont experience the game like I want them too'
w/e get over it.

If the game is too difficult with an inferior input method then players will eventually try to use the new input method.

Shoving a control scheme down a gamer's throat is not the answer.

This post about lack of options is directed at Sakurai.

 

[Ghost_Protocol]

Lol. This reminds me of the Lair review guide that was sent out to reviewers "teaching" them how to review the game. If control issues become so prevalent that they force the creator to defend them, he fucked up. End of story.

 

[boiled goose]

If technically, you are able to play with both Circle Pad as cursor and move the character (but in separate configurations), now with the latest 3DS firmware, they can just do a DLC in this game, just to able to play with both Circle Pad to move the character with one Circle Pad and the cursor with the other, and viceversa in the same configuration.
I don't know why IGN didn't asked this.

E-fucking-xactly
There is no excuse
This is simply a case of developer ego

This post about lack of options is directed at Sakurai.

cmon
you know what I mean. I love the control options in brawl. Full customization is lovely.
yet in icarus
The one option ppl were asking for from the beginning was not included.

as quoted above. both movement and aiming are possible with the circle pads in separate configurations. why not offer an option of using both? why sakurai? why?????

 

[ZeroGravity]

If the controls were really that great, you wouldn't have required the game be packaged with a stand.

 

[GhostTrick]

If the controls were really that great, you wouldn't have required the game be packaged with a stand.

So because you give choice, that sucks ?

 

[chickdigger802]

E-fucking-xactly
There is no excuse
This is simply a case of developer ego



cmon
you know what I mean. I love the control options in brawl. Full customization is lovely.
yet in icarus
The one option ppl were asking for from the beginning was not included.

as quoted above. both movement and aiming are possible with the circle pads in separate configurations. why not offer an option of using both? why sakurai? why?????

I assume life reasons?

deadlines, circumstances, other stuff? For how much say sakurai has with nintendo, they don't seem to like to keep him in the know for stuff.

I recall him being surprised that iwata announced that HE was doing the next smash bros. You usually tell the dude before announcing something... right?

 

[bon]

Sakurai:
I don't disagree with you that your input method is faster and maybe ultimately 'superior'

yet,

you have get of your high horse and offer options.
Making a game more accessible by giving players more options is rarely a bad thing.
'but but then they wont experience the game like I want them too'
w/e get over it.

If the game is too difficult with an inferior input method then players will eventually try to use the new input method.

Shoving a control scheme down a gamer's throat is not the answer.

No they won't. They'll just complain that the game is too hard and the aiming is too slow and inaccurate and they'll give up. That's why the inferior control method shouldn't be included at all. Make players get used to the good unorthodox controls from the get-go so they can play the game properly.

 

[marc^o^]

Kid Icarus controls clicked with me instantly.

I'm working on change management for a living, funny how I can relate this thread to my job.

 

[Regulus Tera]

That... actually makes a lot of sense. I stopped having problems with the controls the moment I stopped pressing the stylus against the screen and just let it slide.

 

[boiled goose]

No they won't. They'll just complain that the game is too hard and the aiming is too slow and inaccurate and they'll give up. That's why the inferior control method shouldn't be included at all. Make players get used to the good unorthodox controls from the get-go so they can play the game properly.

See, you are approaching this from the wrong way.
first you have to accept that humans are imperfect, emotional, irrational beings.

Obtuse controls prevent you from enjoying a game and you blame the controls from the very beginning.

The problem that arises with high difficulty makes you respond differently.

Games could try to encourage you to try the new control scheme if you are not doing well with an inferior control scheme. Those stubborn enough to not try it out will either power through or give up. In this second scenario, it is clear that there is a challenge, and different ways to approach it. no matter your choice, it is seen as your choice.

In the first case, you are being forced to do something you were against from the very beginning.

 

[LizardKing]

I gave this game to my girlfriend, who plays a few games but mostly stuff like angry birds and 2d mario. She is very ADD about games and has no patience. I tried getting her into things like red dead redemption but she couldn't handle the dual analog aiming and put it down after about 15 minutes. I gave her KI to play and she played it for 2 hours straight the first time and loved it.

I think as hardcore gamers many people have dual analogs engrained into them. When the first dual analog shooters came out there was a learning curve to that also, I know there was for me for my first DA aiming game. This is the first game to control like this so of course there is a learning curve and people aren't all that used to it, but I don't know how you can't conclude that they aren't superior to DA. They flat out are. It wouldn't even be possible with DA.

 

[Version 3.0]

Arguing on the one hand that Nintendo knew exactly what they were doing and the controls are perfect, and on the other hand arguing that Nintendo's decision to put a stand in the box means nothing and should be ignored is contradictory.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with Nintendo?

 

[chickdigger802]

I gave this game to my girlfriend, who plays a few games but mostly stuff like angry birds and 2d mario. She is very ADD about games and has no patience. I tried getting her into things like red dead redemption but she couldn't handle the dual analog aiming and put it down after about 15 minutes. I gave her KI to play and she played it for 2 hours straight the first time and loved it.

I think as hardcore gamers many people have dual analogs engrained into them. When the first dual analog shooters came out there was a learning curve to that also, I know there was for me for my first DA aiming game. This is the first game to control like this so of course there is a learning curve and people aren't all that used to it, but I don't know how you can't conclude that they aren't superior to DA. They flat out are. It wouldn't even be possible with DA.

Makes sense. stylus control is comparable to a laptop trackpad or even your standard pc mouse.

What is a real world comparison to... analog sticks? The control thing on a BMW computer?

 

[Tathanen]

Lol. This reminds me when Steve Jobs said this is how you need to hold your Iphone 4. If one needs a special way to play a game, or a peripheral than the controls are less than apt.

Well it's not really a "special" way, I actually hold it like that any time ANY game asks me to use the stylus. It's nothing weird, it's just "how to use the stylus while still holding the system." Been that way since 2004.

If Skyward Sword were truly 1:1 and if the enemies weren't dependant on being hit a certain way, it would have been great. Why couldn't I wildy swing my arm and my sword on screen do the same thing? Why would the hit not count if it isn't done at a certain angle? If I get hit with a sword, it's gonna do damage no matter which angle I get hit from.

Wow really? You're arguing that it would have been "great" if things were 1:1 but it didn't actually matter how you hit anything? You are a curious fellow alright.

 

[Mzo]

Controls are definitely awkward. First time you get to an on-foot sections it's totally like "Ew."

Then you either stick with it and improve through practice, like anything else in life, or you write it off, say the controls suck, and miss out on a great game. I can understand both decisions.

I stuck with it. I love the game. I can see why people dislike it. Oh well.

 

[thetrin]

I seriously don't get the love for dual analog. I'm not saying that the game's controls are infinitely better or something. I get it. You get cramps. But dual analog is WORSE. You'd have to put in aim assist, aim acceleration, a bunch of assists just so you don't miss shit constantly.

Why do you think dual analog shooters give you liberal aim assist? Because shooting shit with two sticks is fucking awful.

Personally, I wish the game had Mouse and Keyboard control.

(all the same, the actual controls are actually pretty awesome once you play with it for a bit. The default sensitivity should have been at max, though.)

 

[MuddyDonut]

Judging by forum postings alone, most people who played the game and gave it at least a good two hours found the control scheme eminently usable, if not excellent.

Err no

 

[thetrin]

Honest question. Of those in this thread who hate the controls, or could never get used to them: Did you ever adjust the sensitivity?

I'm not saying you're an idiot for not just looking in the options. Not in the least. In fact, I HATED the controls when I first started playing the game, and turning up the sensitivity and turning the drift to 0 made a world of difference.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Have you tried playing using the touch screen but without the stylus? You can grip it normally. I'd recommend increasing the cursor and camera speeds very high so that you don't need big movements.

Yes, I decided I didn't want smudge my screen just to play the game. Yes of course I played with the settings.

 

[RawkHawk2010]

By that logic, why include the control scheme where you can run and aim with the face buttons and left stick? You'll get "dominated" there, too.

The controls aren't bad, but I'd still like to be able to access my powers with a shoulder button(which a dual analog scheme would make possible).

 

[Laughing Banana]

Discussion about Sakurai's "you doing it wrong" when he's not actually saying it --> discussion about Kid Icarus control schemes --> Skyward Sword control schemes --> Wii control schemes --> Wii destroying the video game industry.

The circle of life.

 

[SaintMadeOfPlaster]

I'd just like to throw another vote into the "I love the controls" hat.

Took a handful of chapters for them to click, but I can't imagine another way to play a game as frantic as this.

 

[NinjaBoiX]

In the Eurogamer article, they mention that he commented "dual analog control would've been technically impossible". That's bullshit right? How would mapping aim to a round plastic disc rather than a rectangular screen affect performance? I mean, if you didn't want to do it, that's cool. But don't make up some bullshit reason.

 

[Boss Doggie]

In the Eurogamer article, they mention that he commented "dual analog control would've been technically impossible". That's bullshit right? How would mapping aim to a round plastic disc rather than a rectangular screen affect performance? I mean, if you didn't want to do it, that's cool. But don't make up some bullshit reason.

It's not just about that though - the gameplay is fast paced and strict. As people mentioned, dual analogs will fail due to being slower and harder to aim precisely.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Yeah read this last night

....didn't know if should laugh or be pissed.

In the end, I just shook my head and moved-on