Hot Coldman
Banned
My body is ready to be beaten by a SWAT team
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
- Status
My body is ready to be beaten by a SWAT team
Except Visually, which is all I was talking about. Also I did forget about Oblivion, but that did come a year after launch, so my point still stands I believe.
Yeah, that's something I never really understood. On the other hand, Factor5 had atmospheric light scattering in a Gamecube launch title.
Factor 5 should of stayed with the Cube, would of been interesting to see what they could of pulled off on the Wii... Now we will never know.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Cow Mengde
Banned
I see, so Kameo is an Xbox 720 launch game huh?
:lol
No, he's just a really big fan of Kameo and thinks it looks better than anything else on the 360. Bar none.
Refreshment.01
Member
It is visually that Kameo and PD Zero are a generation ahead of the 6th (PS2/XBOX/GC). But for example in terms of play mechanics, simulations or control methods then no, they are basically upgraded PS2/XBOX era games.
Factor 5 did the scattering effect for the sequel Rebel Strike, i think wsippel. But in any case it was an approximation and Eggbert never disscussed how they achive it. Its similar to Shadows of the Colossus case, Team Ico did an approximation of HDR but it is not exactly it nor it means the PS2 is capable of doing it in game scenarios. They had to manually make bounding boxes for differnt bloom factors if im not mistaken. A very time consuming process.
And yea, is too bad some of the IQ effects some of us expected at the beginning of this cycle took a significant hit or were missing altogether. Remember how good the IQ was on some of those early 360 ports? They actually featured a good amount of aniso filtering, some of the AAA stuff dropped a lot of IQ enhancing stuff to get some of the other in vogue effects cause the consoles couldn't handle them.
Typing mistake, it was xbox 1 not 360
This is true except that wii U or the latter machines are "the same" than this generation. There is no need to make new development tools (or not too different) to work with the new machines as all the companies had to do with x360/ps3. Basically the architecture will be very close.
So in theory you could have better (much better) things at launch in this machines than in other generations.
Besides I don't think we will see things like uncharted 3 (or better) at wii U launch. It's my personal opinion, I hope I'll be wrong.
It is visually that Kameo and PD Zero are a generation ahead of the 6th (PS2/XBOX/GC). But for example in terms of play mechanics, simulations or control methods then no, they are basically upgraded PS2/XBOX era games.
Factor 5 did the scattering effect for the sequel Rebel Strike, i think wsippel. But in any case it was an approximation and Eggbert never disscussed how they achive it. Its similar to Shadows of the Colossus case, Team Ico did an approximation of HDR but it is not exactly it nor it means the PS2 is capable of doing it in game scenarios. They had to manually make bounding boxes for differnt bloom factors if im not mistaken. A very time consuming process.
And yea, is too bad some of the IQ effects some of us expected at the beginning of this cycle took a significant hit or were missing altogether. Remember how good the IQ was on some of those early 360 ports? They actually featured a good amount of aniso filtering, some of the AAA stuff dropped a lot of IQ enhancing stuff to get some of the other in vogue effects cause the consoles couldn't handle them.
Typing mistake, it was xbox 1 not 360
Yes, the console hardware was next gen, but if features of the graphics card alone tells you that it's a next gen console, 3DS is a full generation beyond PSP, and PSV is a full generation beyond 3DS, that just isn't how we measure it, Kameo looks like an xbox game with added effects, just look at the links above to black and ninja gaiden, sure Kameo is better looking, but not "10x" better looking, and certainly not as good looking as Oblivion or uncharted.
If this gen unlocks the full potential of a console at launch, that would be very surprising to me, even if it's basically the same hardware only more of it, they should find extra power in using these new features, a balance comes into play with visuals I would assume, and you have a give and take for what you are doing that might be more obvious the second or third time you develop a full game on the hardware... I mean they should all have their strength and weaknesses that I would assume isn't blatantly apparent to your average developer.
It is visually that Kameo and PD Zero are a generation ahead of the 6th (PS2/XBOX/GC). But for example in terms of play mechanics, simulations or control methods then no, they are basically upgraded PS2/XBOX era games.
Factor 5 did the scattering effect for the sequel Rebel Strike, i think wsippel. But in any case it was an approximation and Eggbert never disscussed how they achive it. Its similar to Shadows of the Colossus case, Team Ico did an approximation of HDR but it is not exactly it nor it means the PS2 is capable of doing it in game scenarios. They had to manually make bounding boxes for differnt bloom factors if im not mistaken. A very time consuming process.
And yea, is too bad some of the IQ effects some of us expected at the beginning of this cycle took a significant hit or were missing altogether. Remember how good the IQ was on some of those early 360 ports? They actually featured a good amount of aniso filtering, some of the AAA stuff dropped a lot of IQ enhancing stuff to get some of the other in vogue effects cause the consoles couldn't handle them.
Typing mistake, it was xbox 1 not 360
This post is like... Deja vu
True but we'll see things like Assassin's Creed III at launch, which is fine for me to begin with from a tech' pov.
lherre: I also wanted to say that while that might be true for XB3/PS4, if given what we are hearing about fixed functionality shaders being part of the Wii U's otherwise very normal unified shader architecture is true, wouldn't that be a big change and allow Wii U games to look better and better in the generation like we are more used to?
It also might mean that it takes a shorter amount of time to push the boxes, but I would figure that games on all 3 next gen consoles will look better in their 3rd and 5th years than at launch.
It also might mean that it takes a shorter amount of time to push the boxes, but I would figure that games on all 3 next gen consoles will look better in their 3rd and 5th years than at launch.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I think Iherre was essentially referring to the general pipelines, so your point still stands. That, plus software advancements during the course of a console generations are not to be underestimated either. For instance, we did not have deferred shading at the start of this passing gen. Now many competent titles use it across the board, and as a results, titles have much richer lighting, while little-to-nothing changed in the hw or dev's understanding of hw.
Smiles and Cries
Member
Refreshment.01
Member
For some reason you are ignoring my past comments on why visually both Kameo and PD Zero sported next generation visuals at the Xbox 360 launch. To make a summation, both games featured a collection effects/technics or amounts of them that just weren't possible in the previous consoles. This is contrasting with the ports, say something like King Kong which were just upresed projects with better IQ settings.
And regards to Uncharted, what's the point? Of course game visuals improve as the generation goes on. That's deviating from the point. Im not claiming Kameo is the best looking game on 360.
Anyway, to prove my original point is valid (true next gen launch games) , if you wan let's forget about Kameo and PD Zero. Project Gotham 3 was a next generation game not buts about it
Hot Coldman
Banned
And I think you are very optimistic for launch games hehe (Uncharted is a "beast" in some ways).
But basically blu is correct about my thoughts. I'm not saying that this machines won't have any progress at all, but I think developers will be more adapted/comfortable to them at first that they were with x360 and ps3.
Disorientator
Member
I'm pretty sure the rumor that FOXCONN will be manufacturing the WiiU was brought up already but anyways, I guess this confirms it. (if it wasn't already confirmed)
It's an old-ish financial forecast by HSBC for FOXCONN (Mar. 27, 2012), basically saying that they are expecting a strong 2nd 2012 half, mainly from the launch of WiiU and Iphone 5.
(economics is def. not my thing - I hope I'm not reading it all wrong)
Old?
It's an old-ish financial forecast by HSBC for FOXCONN (Mar. 27, 2012), basically saying that they are expecting a strong 2nd 2012 half, mainly from the launch of WiiU and Iphone 5.
(economics is def. not my thing - I hope I'm not reading it all wrong)
Old?
For some reason you are ignoring my past comments on why visually both Kameo and PD Zero sported next generation visuals at the Xbox 360 launch. To make a summation, both games featured a collection effects/technics or amounts of them that just weren't possible in the previous consoles. This is contrasting with the ports, say something like King Kong which were just upresed projects with better IQ settings.
And regards to Uncharted, what's the point? Of course game visuals improve as the generation goes on. That's deviating from the point. Im not claiming Kameo is the best looking game on 360.
Anyway, to prove my original point is valid (true next gen launch games) , if you wan let's forget about Kameo and PD Zero. Project Gotham 3 was a next generation game not buts about it
http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=EpykEFAplVskuCnPNW I think Project Gotham Racing 2 looked pretty damn good, I didn't ignore your points about effects, I'm not taking away from the FACT that they are on "next gen hardware" at the time that they released, but those games, visually didn't produce a full leap in graphics, the effects did move the bar, just not as far as Assassin's creed or even Oblivion, which were that full generational leap graphically (or "10x" better) and that is just an opinion of mine I guess, we can both agree hopefully that launch 360 games didn't look as good as present ones, which I guess is my whole point... people expecting that huge leap in visuals (obviously not you if you are expecting kameo vs conker) will be disappointed by the PS4/XB3 and of course Wii U as well... but as the generation goes on, those consoles will likely hit where they are expecting them to be.
That to me just means that the gap between 360 and Wii U will be pretty small at launch, but should grow, while XB3/PS4 at launch will not look that much better than Wii U, especially as they have the same capabilities when it comes to graphical effects.
Dude, PGR3 is the game that invented pixel counters. It ran at 600p and you could tell.Anyway, to prove my original point is valid (true next gen launch games) , if you wan let's forget about Kameo and PD Zero. Project Gotham 3 was a next generation game not buts about it
Balls
Franchuzas87
Member
Someone wants to participate?
bgassassin
Member
While I do believe the Upad has some potential for certain things, I also preferred refining the Wiimote over that decision. IMO the Upad is another one of Nintendo's overreactions that I mentioned not too long ago. I felt and still feel that dual pointer controls could have been the proper replacement of dual analog. Every now and then I still wish the screen was detachable from a dual Wiimote setup.
Yeah that was just taking from the article that mentioned UE4 and intended platforms.
Nice find. Back during some of the earliest Cafe rumors Foxconn was mentioned at that time I believe.
So what you're say is, from a multiplat dev's standpoint, it's a current-gen machine, but it's easy enough to develop for that devs can put out graphics from 2012 current gen multiplats (possibly even marginally improved) somewhat easily?
I am a bit hopeful that a game comes forward from a studio in the first year of Wii U's life, I think if Retro was working on something with realistic graphics, they could pull off uncharted's visual fidelity, and I would expect them to push the box a bit better than others at launch.
And yes, I agree 100% with what you are saying about XB3 and PS4 now, they might actually push graphics a bit beyond Wii U at launch, but I think by Wii U's end life, they will look pretty similar (at lower resolutions and effects turned down, expecting around half the power here)
Multiple teraflop performance? Hah. I doubt we'll see 2 TFLOP from Sony or Microsoft next gen.
AceBandage
Banned
No. He's saying devs don't have to rewrite the book with the Wii U, PS4 or Durango.
Nintendo fans are friggin' incredible.
Example that I have noticed recently:
Go on etsy and do a search for, say, "Zelda." Count the results.
Next, go on and plug-in any IP from one of the other console makers. Count those results.
We're crazy-passionate about the product. It's one reason I'm always pretty comfortable about Nintendo's future - we (the crazies) simply won't allow them to go away, even if it's just for an unremarkably little corner-of-the-market, GameCube-like existence.
Oh, I thought he was only talking about Wii U.
That sentence was poorly worded, btw, so I edited.
It's somewhat confusing, though, because from what he said you could infer that Uncharted 3 would push Wii U's limits somewhat.
I think if they focus on asymmetric gaming, and add a Wiimote in the box, it will become a standard controller, I mean MKwii and Smash use all available controllers, there is something like 4 options for both, 5 if you count ccp as it's own. I am hoping that COD uses Wiimote controls as well as Upad. We will have to wait and see, but my fingers are crossed... btw I don't think the tablet is in anyway pointless, there is a lot of gaming designs that can be pushed into reality thanks to that controller, a lot are asymmetric, but it's by no means the only one.
I guess you're basing this on the console performance itself, cause you don't know about nintendo games and other third party stuff.
No mention of Microsoft I take it.
Sorry, but this
Sounds like WiiU. When did developers get their new kits?
Just recently right?
bgassassin
Member
Z0m3le buddy. I don't think you really read my posts at times. That wasn't my point. My point was the step that I preferred over Upad was a refined Wiimote control with emphasis on dual pointing.
I think a part of that is because of how long Nintendo's history is in gaming.
But you are definitely right about how passionate we are about Nintendo. And I'm proud of that passion. Great company. They make a few boneheaded decisions once in a while, but still a great company.
Disorientator
Member
Refreshment.01
Member
Runing sub HD doesn't disqualified as a next gen gaming. Resolution is just a part of the visual's equation.
You are purposely dancing around the issues z0m3le. If in your opinion Kameo or PD Zero are not generational leaps. You had Project Gotham at launch which represents a clear show case of a generational leap in visuals.
This part of your post i have issues with because plain and simple is self constructed so you can give some type of reply. First because is so obvious, "the visual in games improves as a generation goes by" "so 2 later released games (Creed and Oblivion) look better". That's never being up for debate in the first place.z0m3le said:
bgassassin
Member
Awhile back wsippel began mentioning that the Semiaccurate rumored Oban chip for the next Xbox console may actually be for Wii U. Quite a few things since the rumor was released point to the notion being fairly possible.
What!?
I think this might be true simply because of the schedule and timing.
Yup. And the best advice I would've given Sony or MS is to create and nurture the hell out of a select number of widely-appealing, core IPs so that they'd have what would essentially be guaranteed income. In rough times, it could make a very critical difference. Imagine how different the Vita's fate would've been had Sony continued to nurture and evolve their earlier mascot characters.
Nintendo fans are clinical because we have a whole vast universe to be insane for.
- Status