Agent Ironside
Member
Also I think Epic said that at the start of next gen, UE3 will still be the go to engine and UE4 won't be til a little later.
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Unreal Engine 4 Game Informer Details
- Thread starter ImLibo
- Start date
Also I think Epic said that at the start of next gen, UE3 will still be the go to engine and UE4 won't be til a little later.
I want technical and specific details:
Are they now a fully deferred renderer?
What about in DX9? Will it drop backwards compatability with any DX variant?
How are they doing Realtime GI? Did they partner with Geomerics?
How much reprocessing will their GI require, special UVs, proxy meshes?
Has the asset pipeline changed any, like say DCC tool integrations, project skyline, etc.. or are they still pushing forward with the .FBX backbone?
Will you be able to extend this tech to lower end hardware? What have they done with mobile?
What about the node based material editor, any cool changes there?
What about the recent additions to UDK such as texture painting, is that leading anywhere in UE4?
Am I to expect any answers to even the slightly technical questions above in this Game Informer Issue?
Are they now a fully deferred renderer?
What about in DX9? Will it drop backwards compatability with any DX variant?
How are they doing Realtime GI? Did they partner with Geomerics?
How much reprocessing will their GI require, special UVs, proxy meshes?
Has the asset pipeline changed any, like say DCC tool integrations, project skyline, etc.. or are they still pushing forward with the .FBX backbone?
Will you be able to extend this tech to lower end hardware? What have they done with mobile?
What about the node based material editor, any cool changes there?
What about the recent additions to UDK such as texture painting, is that leading anywhere in UE4?
Am I to expect any answers to even the slightly technical questions above in this Game Informer Issue?
Horse Armour
Member
Hopefully it's DX11+ exclusive.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Angelus Errare
Banned
DX9?
Dice's Frostbite 2 only uses the DX11API. DX10 cards are compatible with DX11 to a point. DX9 isn't compatible at all (hence why DX10+ isn't available on Windows XP and never will be).
Wait, the build with BF3, or an unreleased future build for another game?
In what sense? Like, what do I get out of it? I got a DX10 card at home an I haven't seen any titles use any DX10 specific features, only DX11 or 9.
Angelus Errare
Banned
BF3
With a DX10 card you can (sort of) function running a DirectX 11 game, but a DX9 card can't run a DX11 only game at all.
Battlefield 3 and Just Cause 2 are two examples of games that won't run on DX9 hardware at all.
Angelus Errare
Banned
DX10 features are encompassed in DX11, any feature DX10 can do DX11 can do. So take say JC2/BF3, the very fact your game is running is means it's using what features your card supports. The ones your card doesn't support doesn't get used. Simple
Yeah, fixed
Interesting.
these two games you guys mention are multiplatform console games as well. And the PS3 doesn't even use DX. So the way I understand this is that consoles don't have a direct parralel with DX versions and don't share the same restrictions because you have such low level access to the hardware. Is this correct?
Angelus Errare
Banned
Basically, Well it still has hardware restrictions such as PS3/360 are not capable of tesselation due to it not having the hardware for it, or DX11 based effects in general. Many of the effects can be approximated in DX9 with great coders, but they'll run slower/lower than their DX11 based counter parts.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
This looks great
but no, not even close to this.
Open that level in Sandbox editor, put rain in the level, make the floor wet, add a camera that moves around the way the one in the Samaritan does, increase the camera motion blur pump up the Anti-Alisasing.
If your PC is powerful enough SuperSample it as a well....now save it as a video.
You will get a cutscene that looks just as good as the Samaritan.
Crysis 2 DX 11 + High Res Textures looks very close to the Samaritan....and the Samaritan is a tech demo.
In fact in the downsampled images Crysis 2 looks exactly the same obviously sans the wet floor.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
Just a small correction, Xbox 360 does have a hardware tesselator, although it doesn't comply with DX11 specifications.
Crosspost from the PC high-res thread.
With even more upgrades, this can look just as good as the UE3.98837928 demo. Even still, this comes close (in terms of features). That Samaritan is a tech-demo. It can look that good because it's a tech-demo, even if it's in real-time.
With even more upgrades, this can look just as good as the UE3.98837928 demo. Even still, this comes close (in terms of features). That Samaritan is a tech-demo. It can look that good because it's a tech-demo, even if it's in real-time.
I've noticed a trend in features being added to software empowering designers with tools that allow them to tweak things that would have been out of their programming skill set otherwise. That is one of the things I like about UDK. How you can do so much with kismet style features and not know much about programming language. They have really been boasting about this a lot also. That and real time editing of code, lights etc. UDK will feel so dated once UE4 UDK comes out 0_0
shinobi602
Member
I'm so fucking pumped for UE4. The smell of next gen...*sniff* mmmmm
There is a path to SM3 as well, so you can make game with DX11 that works with old 'dx9' cards.
Reason why some games do not use the SM3 path is because it really is quite far in terms of programmability when compared to DX10. (IE. no compute shader support.)
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
They look similar in screens, I will concede that.
However, run a couple dynamic lights through the scene, and this changes.
Also, the ground was wet in my initial screen... not wet enough I guess?
Crysis 2 is a thing of beauty, don't misinterpret me. But it does not do everything that Samaritan accomplishes. The sheer amount of dynamic lights, the subsurface scattering, the reflections (yes DX11 patch has amazing reflections in SOME places, but you still have many many puddles of water everywhere that reflect low res skyscrapers and a blue sky, even when the puddle is indoors...) the transformations, the character models, etc)
When and if Samaritan turns out to be an actual game(the art and assets were very realized for an Unreal Engine 3.9 showcase, when all other UE3.x upgrades they just showed Gears because the assets were done. Not even the UE4 unveiling demo is as realized as Samaritan art wise.), I would bet money that it blows Crysis 2 out of the water visually. There will be no contest, even if they can at times look similar in screenshots.
That said, CryENGINE 3 is very competitive, and it will be amazing to see it compete with UE4 next gen. I really wish that they waited for Crysis 3 until next gen consoles were out. Although Crytek has said it will be better and DX11 support out of the box etc etc. The game is still being made with the console limitations in mind. The Crysis IP will be glorious (once more) when next gen arrives and Crysis 4+ can be made to the best of Crytek's ability for all platforms.
However, run a couple dynamic lights through the scene, and this changes.
Also, the ground was wet in my initial screen... not wet enough I guess?
Crysis 2 is a thing of beauty, don't misinterpret me. But it does not do everything that Samaritan accomplishes. The sheer amount of dynamic lights, the subsurface scattering, the reflections (yes DX11 patch has amazing reflections in SOME places, but you still have many many puddles of water everywhere that reflect low res skyscrapers and a blue sky, even when the puddle is indoors...) the transformations, the character models, etc)
When and if Samaritan turns out to be an actual game(the art and assets were very realized for an Unreal Engine 3.9 showcase, when all other UE3.x upgrades they just showed Gears because the assets were done. Not even the UE4 unveiling demo is as realized as Samaritan art wise.), I would bet money that it blows Crysis 2 out of the water visually. There will be no contest, even if they can at times look similar in screenshots.
That said, CryENGINE 3 is very competitive, and it will be amazing to see it compete with UE4 next gen. I really wish that they waited for Crysis 3 until next gen consoles were out. Although Crytek has said it will be better and DX11 support out of the box etc etc. The game is still being made with the console limitations in mind. The Crysis IP will be glorious (once more) when next gen arrives and Crysis 4+ can be made to the best of Crytek's ability for all platforms.
Freezie KO
Banned
That .gif looks like PS3 to me, but I'm no graphics/tech-head. I'm sure there's some shaderflop or something going on.
And I'm sure it'll be really important to gameplay...
And I'm sure it'll be really important to gameplay...
Sounds fair. It also doesn't help that Crysis 2 is basically a console port, which may explain the lack of certain features that are available in CryEngine 3. It can only look amazing with mods.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
What features are missing from Crysis 2 but were present in CryEngine 3.0....dont mention 3.4 stuff cuz when Crysis 2 was released CE3.4 wasnt out.
Backfoggen
Banned
I hope it will be DX11 only. By the time the first games come out that should be doable.
TUROK
Member
What kind of drugs have you been doing?
i'm guessing he doesnt know about the dx11 and texture pack? original release crysis 2 is kinda lame for CE3
I'm pretty sure it won't be scalable. They mentioned earlier on a computer hardware site that it would need a Keplar based video card or better to run.
I hardly doubt you'll find many (if any) answers in Game Informer.
As for your questions... there really isn't much information out there but regarding:
(1) The lighting isn't baked so you won't need a second UV like before. As for proxy meshes, I guess that depends on your scene, but you will most likely want to have them in an actual released title, unless you're going for simple backgrounds... I mean, even games right now use proxy meshes for shadows, reflections, etc.. so I don't think that's changing anytime soon (until we reach a point where things just look too good and we just keep getting more processing power to do the same...
).(2) I don't think they're moving away from .fbx, though if they stopped supporting .ase, you never know what might happen in the future.
(3) Haven't heard anything, but hopefully it has some method for organizing things better. When you get a huge material, it can get so ugly, hahah
It could also use speeding up of the material editor, in DX11 is painful to use compared to DX9.
Regarding lighting, I don't think they're using Geomerics (first time I saw support for moving objects in Enlighten was at this years GDC), also it doesn't have reflections using GI data.
Regarding lighting, I don't think they're using Geomerics (first time I saw support for moving objects in Enlighten was at this years GDC), also it doesn't have reflections using GI data.
specialguy
Banned
So I'm getting next gen=particles lol (or to more GAF meme it up, "sparks")
The gif does look a lot better than the stills, though I/m still not sure it's what I envision as next gen.
Edit: Actually, imagining playing that gif in real time would be pretty impressive.
The gif does look a lot better than the stills, though I/m still not sure it's what I envision as next gen.
Edit: Actually, imagining playing that gif in real time would be pretty impressive.
People are saying there aren't differences between UE4 and CE3. I just think we are reaching a point where most people just can't tell the difference. I think that when things like character models are made up of over 25000+ poly's and you get in good AA and post processing most people can't tell the difference. A human character model could be 30000 polys vs 100000 polys and doubt most people would be able to tell the difference. And that's where the next gen is heading.
(1) The lighting isn't baked so you won't need a second UV like before. As for proxy meshes, I guess that depends on your scene, but you will most likely want to have them in an actual released title, unless you're going for simple backgrounds... I mean, even games right now use proxy meshes for shadows, reflections, etc.. so I don't think that's changing anytime soon (until we reach a point where things just look too good and we just keep getting more processing power to do the same...
(2) I don't think they're moving away from .fbx, though if they stopped supporting .ase, you never know what might happen in the future.
(3) Haven't heard anything, but hopefully it has some method for organizing things better. When you get a huge material, it can get so ugly, hahah
why did they stop supporting .ase files? I'm just curious because I'm a noob and I always export my models as either .obj or .ase
(1) The lighting isn't baked so you won't need a second UV like before. As for proxy meshes, I guess that depends on your scene, but you will most likely want to have them in an actual released title, unless you're going for simple backgrounds... I mean, even games right now use proxy meshes for shadows, reflections, etc.. so I don't think that's changing anytime soon (until we reach a point where things just look too good and we just keep getting more processing power to do the same...
(2) I don't think they're moving away from .fbx, though if they stopped supporting .ase, you never know what might happen in the future.
(1) That hasn't been confirmed, I have only read that the lighting is all in realtime. While there is a difference between real-time and runtime and either method can use baked lighting, its a convenient format, and you can bake down to it fast on GPUs and save yourself a lot of processing power on the more static parts of your lighting. Geomeric's Enlighten can do everything in realtime or at runtime but still bakes everything down into lightmaps through the use of special proxies (I think you confused this with LODs) and uv maps. Check out their presentation, "rethinking game lighting pipelines" for more info, it's on MSDN with audio if you want, they clear up the sematics of realtime vs runtime in this context.
I really think they partnered with Geomerics, they already got really tight integration with UDK.
(2) Perhaps, but I am still hoping for them to really push Autodesk's Project Skyline forward and maybe use something similar to CryExporter plugins for 3ds max.
UE3 on mobile doesn't use the same renderer or material system, but it's still UE3 for other systems like game logic, physics, sound etc... It would be nice to have kismet 2 for mobile.
Oh and if they are partnered with geomerics Enlighten would allow them to have their real-time lighting on Ipad 2 class mobile hardware. It makes a lot of sense.
StoppedInTracks
Member
If UE4 still uses baked & faked lighting then it is a massive disappointment for me.
I don't think you understand. Its not important whether it is baked or not, that doesn't necessarily mean that your iteration times will be far from realtime like they are with lightmass. With the high end class hardware that UE4 is targeting, Enlighten can create fully dynamic runtime lighting, but it will still renders them out into textures/bake. Watch the presentation I mentioned If you need a more thorough explination, or at least the UDK integration video. That is all being baked into textures at runtime, dynamically!
The only disappointing part about it would be the amount of preprocessing required. But, it's still better than what we got now.
I cant wait for thursday (GTTV UE4 episode), although I don't think that even they will answer practically any of those questions.
Its still a focus. A lot of people on here can see that there's a difference in poly count between the characters Marcus Fenix and Kratos.
Apocryphon
Member
The 1 second teaser and the stills already released from the UE4 demo might seem underwhelming to some, but I'm pretty sure the final demo will impress.
Will it have the same kind of visual impact that this early UE3 demo had at the time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m7T5ay_8DI&feature=related
Maybe not, but in the hands of devs with better artists, it will be magnificent.
Also, can somebody point me to the extended version of this demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY_kTMFpQ4E&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL1F4BC3711429F3B4
There's a voiceover/some sort of explanation as to how they've implemented the Apex clothing system to eliminate clipping. I had it, I just can't find it now. Ta!
Will it have the same kind of visual impact that this early UE3 demo had at the time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m7T5ay_8DI&feature=related
Maybe not, but in the hands of devs with better artists, it will be magnificent.
Also, can somebody point me to the extended version of this demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY_kTMFpQ4E&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL1F4BC3711429F3B4
There's a voiceover/some sort of explanation as to how they've implemented the Apex clothing system to eliminate clipping. I had it, I just can't find it now. Ta!
-- This is BY FAR the most exciting thing. UDK has proven to be very popular with getting indie games on board and driving revenue for licensing, so I wouldn't be surprised at all if this means a UDK4 preview to blunt anything Crytek and Unity announce.
Apocryphon
Member
Thank you very much!
Agreed. It was absolutely mind-blowing. I had a quicksave shortly before you left the ship just for showing friends who had taken lsd or shrooms. Never failed to make jaws drop... even without the psychedelics.