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[Ryoku]

Epic competing with Crytek in terms of ease in game development with the engine, eh? Sounds good to me

 

[Forsaken82]

That gif does absolutely nothing for me. You could have told me that was from this gen and I'd probably believe you.

But the important thing is making the process easier for developers. Hopefully that keeps costs somewhat in check too.

You don't know a lot about particle systems then. That scene running on a current gen console would run at less than 15 frames a second

Also worth noting, the lighting in that scene is dynamic and real time if i am not mistaken.

 

[RoboPlato]

Epic competing with Crytek in terms of ease in game development with the engine, eh? Sounds good to me

Is CE3 that easy to use?

 

[Madridy]

I'm so fucking ready for next GEN!!

I hope that more devs aim to build engines that are graphical good, while also being really efficient and streamlined for the developers to reduce cost.


Hate to see more of my favorite devs go under next gen.

 

[Erasus]

Great points. I really like the performance and look of UE3, and its more diverse than people think, Borderlands, Enslaved, TERA etc

 

[Ryoku]

Is CE3 that easy to use?

Yes.

 

[ProXimity]

MS and Sony are pussin' out by not showing anything next-gen this E3.

 

[Grayman]

I don't think so, no. I haven't been impressed by a video card demo since Toy Shop and Dawn.

And what games matched Dawn that ran on those cards?

So you think you are going to be playing something that looks exactly like this tech demo when UE4 games come out?

 

[mugurumakensei]

How powerful is a 680 graphics card compared to Xenos and RSX?

In the range of 10-12x the power of Xenos and RSX which is less than half the leap compared to ps2/xbox vs xbox 360/ps3.

The jump from PS2/xbox gen to HD gen was really huge compared to all others.

GTX 680 3.1 Teraflops
Xenos .24 Teraflops
Xbox .0058 Teraflops.

 

[ll_l_x_l_ll]

Man I really want to see pics of this. Just to get an idea what next system games will look like .

 

[Branduil]

My fingers are crossed for this. I don't have any doubts that processors will be solid and I would love to see 7850 levels of performance paired up with a decent amount of RAM. I think all of these high profile interviews and statements about UE4 are a power play by Epic to get some higher specs for next gen from hardware makers. If the more of the public is aware of this as being the successor engine to what powers most games this gen and gets more exposure to the tech demos (through the GTTV special, etc) then a lot more of the public will be banking on that level of performance for next gen. It won't just be people like us on message boards.

The public doesn't care about graphics engines at all. This is all for us "hardcore" gamers.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I think they should have went with a human.

People seemed more impressed with the less proficient Samaritan demo.

Yup.

As nice as demon knight guy with flames is, the tricky thing is making human characters look good and animate just as good. If UE4 just makes nice looking humans but they don't animate well or convincingly, then you just end up in the Uncanny Valley of Robert Zemeckis movie CG.

 

[Oblivion]

In the range of 10-12x the power of Xenos and RSX which is less than half the leap compared to ps2/xbox vs xbox 360/ps3..

Really? I thought, at least from just the processor perspective, the 360/PS3 WERE around 10-12x the power of their predecessors?

 

[Oblivion]

An immense gulf. I believe the RSX is roughly equivalent to a 7000 series GeForce, but someone can better pinpoint. At any rate, once we have better equivalents look here, it's a Graphics Card hierarchy chart on Tom's Hardware.

Grazie.

 

[EatinOlives]

Anyone who says the image above can be done on current gen hardware are complete batshit insane.

"Diminished returns" phrase should be banned based on that pic alone.

"Diminishing returns" was always nothing more than a myth perpetuated by people with no imagination who couldn't look beyond current-generation technology.

Though this and the Samaritan demos are very concrete evidence, before it you could effectively just point to any Blu-Ray Pixar/Dreamworks film and easily prove that real-time graphics will always be years behind pre-rendered, giving more than ample room for significant improvements over the years. "Diminishing returns" won't at all be applicable for another decade at the very least.

 

[BigTnaples]

And what games matched Dawn that ran on those cards?

So you think you are going to be playing something that looks exactly like this tech demo when UE4 games come out?

The only thing impressive about dawn was hair. Everything else in the demo has been surpassed in real time on games running 2004-2005 hardware.

And hell, we have that now too.

Gears 3 looks better than anything we saw in early E3 tech demos. Yes.

Hell, Samaritan is probably an actual game that has not been announced yet.

Heavy Rain was first shown as a tech demo with a single on screen character.

Far Cry looked better than the first tech demos using the engine.

There are a ton of tech demos that are out done by games. And even the tech demos that are still super impressive are only such because they used ALL of the hardware resources to pull off one effect such as Hair or SSS.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Really? I thought, at least from just the processor perspective, the 360/PS3 WERE around 10-12x the power of their predecessors?

It was actually closer to 70x improvement if you consider processor alone. 77 GFlops vs 1.5 Gflops.

The xbox 360 was over 40x the xbox in raw performance.

I can't directly compare PS3 cause the gpu at least has a weird statistic.

 

[Branduil]

"Diminishing returns" was always nothing more than a myth perpetuated by people with no imagination who couldn't look beyond current-generation technology.

Though this and the Samaritan demos are very concrete evidence, before it you could effectively just point to any Blu-Ray Pixar/Dreamworks film and easily prove that real-time graphics will always be years behind pre-rendered, giving more than ample room for significant improvements over the years. "Diminishing returns" won't at all be applicable for another decade at the very least.

Diminishing returns doesn't claim that games won't keep looking better, though. Just that the improvement over the previous gen will not impress as many people as much as the last leap.

 

[Kinyou]

The only thing impressive about dawn was hair. Everything else in the demo has been surpassed in real time on games running 2004-2005 hardware.

And hell, we have that now too.

I'd say that Nalu's hair is still more detailed than Alice's. But I also have to say that the mermaid doesn't look as impressive as I remembered her.

 

[-PXG-]

I wish Gears of War Judgement was on UE4

 

[Insane Metal]

Well the first showings of UE3 got me REALLY impressed. The first UE4 didn't, though. Neither did that Samaritan tech demo.

Give something awesome.

Epic pls

 

[low-G]

So heres my next question.

This is running on a gtx 680 card.

What will be needed for next gen consoles to meet this requirement give the advantages of a consoles closed architecture and the speculation on very high powered CPU's to compliment the graphics cards?

Hopefully with when the next gen is coming out, if it's anything like last gen it should be a piece of cake to top that performance in a closed platform.

I just hope we don't get underpowered consoles next gen. (and don't give me any of that BS about consoles always being underpowered, I mean compared to last gen)

 

[BigTnaples]

Diminishing returns doesn't claim that games won't keep looking better, though. Just that the improvement over the previous gen will not impress as many people as much as the last leap.

Which will be proven wrong the second the casual masses see a next gen Call of Duty, Gears, Uncharted, Killzone, ElderScrolls, Grand Theft Auto, Assassins Creed etc...

People say this every gen, " I am satisfied with what we have" "Can it really get much better?".

This will last up until the first holiday season of Next Gen consoles, when we are amazed by experiences we would not be able to have with current gen tech.

 

[D4Danger]

I wish Gears of War Judgement was on UE4

What's going on with Fortnite? is that UE4?

 

[RoboPlato]

The public doesn't care about graphics engines at all. This is all for us "hardcore" gamers.

I was trying to say that they're trying to get more people to care beyond the usual people who would.

 

[BigTnaples]

I'd say that Nalu's hair is still more detailed than Alice's. But I also have to say that the mermaid doesn't look as impressive as I remembered her.

Ah that's what I meant to say, Dawn itself was not all that impressive to me and has definitely been surpassed.

Nalu's hair was and is impressive, but as I said, the rest has been surpassed, and Alice's hair is still on par with that tech demo, which was specifically made with the sole purpose of showing off hair, where as Alice is an entire game-world, AI NPC's, environments, physics, etc. The hair is not even a bullet point on the back of the game.

(that said I wonder what Alice's in game hair would look like blonde and under water in game...)

 

[kevm3]

That gif in the original post reminds me with a next gen dark souls could be.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Which will be proven wrong the second the casual masses see a next gen Call of Duty, Gears, Uncharted, Killzone, ElderScrolls, Grand Theft Auto, Assassins Creed etc...

People say this every gen, " I am satisfied with what we have" "Can it really get much better?".

This will last up until the first holiday season of Next Gen consoles, when we are amazed by experiences we would not be able to have with current gen tech.

In terms of pure specs, the jump will never be as high as xbox to xbox 360.

It would require roughly 4x GTX 680s with a 3.9 TFLOPS CPU.

It certainly won't be the case with real games.

Ram is probably the easiest to match in jump since you would need only 4 GB of ram combined.

 

[rdrr gnr]

I know this is absurd and the epitome of pseudoscience, but I can't help but feel tech demos should attempt to emulate evolutionarily scenic environments. Attempt to recreate plains, mountains, sun, and wind. Things that are almost biologically attractive.

 

[Kinyou]

Ah that's what I meant to say, Dawn itself was not all that impressive to me and has definitely been surpassed.

Nalu's hair was and is impressive, but as I said, the rest has been surpassed, and Alice's hair is still on par with that tech demo, which was specifically made with the sole purpose of showing off hair, where as Alice is an entire game-world, AI NPC's, environments, physics, etc. The hair is not even a bullet point on the back of the game.

(that said I wonder what Alice's in game hair would look like blonde and under water in game...)

It definitely looks like the same technology. I could imagine that they toned the streaks of Alice's hair a little down to avoid that wig look that Nalu sometimes has.

 

[BigTnaples]

In terms of pure specs, the jump will never be as high as xbox to xbox 360.

It would require roughly 4x GTX 680s with a 3.9 TFLOPS CPU.

It certainly won't be the case with real games.

The jump may not be as big with pure specs, but I think people are underestimating how tangibly better games next gen will look.

CoD while it looked great in 2006, and good in 2008, looks like horse shit in 2012.

CoD gamers are fine with this, for now.

Wait until they see a trailer for a Next gen CoD. If IW puts any effort in at all it will look 10x better than current CoD games.






As for the more graphically impressive games like Gears 3, Mass Effect 3, Bioshock infinite.

Those games look okay for consoles, but next gen, they will look godlike.

Current gen is filled with games that have a feeling of "almost". They almost reached their vision graphics wise, but were being held back.

Next gen, things will finally look closer to what we expect.


If you think that Rocksteady wont turn this

into something absolutely breathtaking with UE4 and proper Next Gen hardware then I don't know what to tell you.


Hell even if they did a straight UE4 port and added in all the new effects with the same assets it would look out of this world. Let alone being built from the ground up.

Same with Gears. Epic is going to blow people away with UE4 and the Gears and Hopefully Unreal franchises.

Just take a look at any of the current gen UE3 heavy hitters and tell me they would not look amazing with new lighting effects, bokeh DoF, Reflections, Tessellation, Volumetric effects, with the additional next gen standards like increased poly count, texture resolution and scale.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Yeah, maybe those Gears of War 3 bullshots will look closer to the actual game!

 

[Dan Yo]

Framrates have nothing to do with engines. Framerates will hit 30 regularly, and occasionally below.

For every CoD and Rage where 60fps is the focus, there will be games like Gears and Doom 3 where graphics are the focus.

It is a matter of style, and some devs and gamers will always want better graphics over 60fps. Including me. However I prefer both, which is why I own an awesome PC...

According to developers, games are getting too expensive to produce better graphics or hire people to create more assets, so it seems likely that we'll see less of that and better frame rates going into the future.

Not to mention there will always be those smart developers that will concentrate on doing both, like Rage as one of your own examples.

Frame rate is just as important to making a game look and feel realistic and immersing the player into a world. It should be paid equal attention.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Just take a look at any of the current gen UE3 heavy hitters and tell me they would not look amazing with new lighting effects, bokeh DoF, Reflections, Tessellation, Volumetric effects, with the additional next gen standards like increased poly count, texture resolution and scale.

They will look better but they won't be 10x better. More on the order of 6-7x better since the jump in specs will only be on the order of 10-12x better which is still nice, but, again, it isn't going to be a Xbox to Xbox 360 jump.

I'm saying temper your expectations cause there hasn't been something as revolutionary as multi-core processors in a while.

 

[BigTnaples]

They will look better but they won't be 10x better. More on the order of 6-7x better since the jump in specs will only be on the order of 10-12x better which is still nice, but, again, it isn't going to be a Xbox to Xbox 360 jump.

I agree, I still think people are underestimating how much we will be saying "wow" next gen.

Speaking more about people that say "Diminishing returns, it looks like a 360 game." than to anything you said.

My expectations are fine as I game on PC

 

[mugurumakensei]

I agree, I still think people are underestimating how much we will be saying "wow" next gen.

Speaking more about people that say "Diminishing returns, it looks like a 360 game." than to anything you said.

It is diminishing returns cause the advancement is far more subtle.

However, UE4 demo does not look like an xbox 360 game.

 

[danwarb]

You don't know a lot about particle systems then. That scene running on a current gen console would run at less than 15 frames a second

Also worth noting, the lighting in that scene is dynamic and real time if i am not mistaken.

Probably quite a lot less than 1 frame per second with equivalent image quality.

 

[BigTnaples]

It is diminishing returns cause the advancement is far more subtle.

However, UE4 demo does not look like an xbox 360 game.

Indeed, the misuse or exaggeration of Diminishing returns is what gets me.

I am not saying next gen will look like Avatar. But it will definitely look a lot better than what we are currently playing. A lot.

That's really all I am trying to get across. I agree it wont be as big a jump, if only because we now have poly counts in current gen games that can already show the human form just about as accurately as we need it to right now. The improvements will come from lighting and effects this gen. Where as last gen the jump got us from character models that looked like this.

to this.

We are already close enough that a big jump in that area is not needed.

 

[Dark Octave]

Looks like one of those generic monsters on the front of a graphics card box. The graphics quality looks good. The real proof will come when there are dozens of characters on the screen to interact with and and all kinds of stuff for the system to keep track of behind the scenes.

 

[Branduil]

Which will be proven wrong the second the casual masses see a next gen Call of Duty, Gears, Uncharted, Killzone, ElderScrolls, Grand Theft Auto, Assassins Creed etc...

People say this every gen, " I am satisfied with what we have" "Can it really get much better?".

This will last up until the first holiday season of Next Gen consoles, when we are amazed by experiences we would not be able to have with current gen tech.

The popularity of most of those games is not based on graphics tech.

 

[Souther]

I'd love if all games for the next gen consoles were 60FPS Standard. No more 30FPS.
Even if they were only able to output 720P @ 60FPS I would take that over 1080P @ 30FPS Standard.

 

[SeanNoonan]

Is CE3 that easy to use?

Easiest tech I've worked with and some of the fastest results.

 

[MWS Natural]

The popularity of most of those games is not based on graphics tech.

Which will be proven wrong the second the casual masses see a next gen Call of Duty, Gears, Uncharted, Killzone, ElderScrolls, Grand Theft Auto, Assassins Creed etc...

I respectfully disagree.

 

[Branduil]

There's a reason all three of those games are shooters.

 

[lowrider007]

His swing doesn't seem to have any impact on the fire embers which is a little disappointing.

 

[Pandemic]

The video on the Unreal Engine 4 with the truck crashing into objects was pretty awesome.

 

[RoboPlato]

The video on the Unreal Engine 4 with the truck crashing into objects was pretty awesome.

That was CryEngine 3. We haven't seen video of UE4 yet.

 

[BigTnaples]

There's a reason all three of those games are shooters.

Many more as well.

Heavy Rain, Uncharted, Forza 4, Gran Turismo 5, LA Noir, Red Dead Redemption, Skyrim, God of War, Batman Arkham City/Asylum, The Witcher 2, Bioshock, Assassins Creed, Dead Space, Mass Effect.

While some of those have shooter elements, ALL of them are graphically high tier and or graphically competitive games.


No CoD does not owe all of its success to graphics, though it does owe some.

I was a CoD1 fan from PC, and it was not until CoD4 that a bunch of casuals would say to me, " Have you seen that new game Modern Warfare? Looks like real life man, its sick!" or some variation of said statement. The back of the box for CoD4, (along with many of the previews) said "The most photo-realistic game I have ever seen"..

Trust me, if you dont think CoD fans will flock to a next gen CoD, you have another thing coming.

Casuals are awed by graphics first, gameplay later. When they see a game that "looks like the movies" they want it. Then they play it, and the dangling carrot gameplay keeps them coming back.

 

[DSN2K]

360, PS3 games could substantially look better with simply more ram, if you bring in a better CPU, GPU you get some dramatic improvements.

 

[Eusis]

Indeed, the misuse or exaggeration of Diminishing returns is what gets me.

I am not saying next gen will look like Avatar. But it will definitely look a lot better than what we are currently playing. A lot.

That's really all I am trying to get across. I agree it wont be as big a jump, if only because we now have poly counts in current gen games that can already show the human form just about as accurately as we need it to right now. The improvements will come from lighting and effects this gen. Where as last gen the jump got us from character models that looked like this.

Isn't that the definition of "diminishing returns" though? There's still the angle it'll be a big enough to appreciate, yes, just looking at how much nicer console games looked on an GeForce 8800 GT shows that, nevermind a more modern card like a 560 Ti or the 680 used for the UE4 demo. But it IS probable the jump will be more subtle, and something that we'll appreciate but maybe not the masses at large. Hell, this generation was a bigger jump in raw numbers than this next one is likely to be, yet the jump in my eyes for polygonal models from the PS1 to PS2 dwarves your example there.

Frankly, my bigger hope is more with larger, more seamless/active areas if technology's seriously pushed. We may get that even without, just a jump in ram from 512 to 2 GB, nevermind 4 or 8 would do a lot.