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Project CARS (crowdsourcing) racing sim by Slightly Mad Studios (fully funded 3.75M)
- Thread starter markao
- Start date
I'm still not sure what the back story is here. Care to elaborate?I felt guilty about lying to you guys.
If I recall well from 4-5 years ago, original "Ferrari Project" *game* was made by Blimey! studios.
That "game" - "Ferrari Project" - was not really a game, it was just a placeholder development-software made in order to obtain financing for backthan Blimey's next-gen engine and potential deal to make a game and possibly attract Ferrari. But at the time there was probably some crazyness going on with the license, and when mock-ups started to flood the internet, SMS was gently asked to remove the Ferrari imagery because they didn't have the actual *working* license to use it.
Initial license was probably granted to 10tackle Studios (as publisher) in early 2000's and then internally transfered to Blimey! when 10tackle disputed with Simbin (probable reason why Ferrari is absent from GTR series since 2007). Since Ian Bell left Simbin and established Blimey - and then used insolvency of 10tackle and administration of Blimey! to sell both companies to himself - to new company Slightly Mad Studios, there was too much trembling with the license.
*Ferrari Project* went into some drawer, but the engine technology of Ferrari Project was used to create original Shift engine, which is now - I guess, since it shares many details - heavily modified and improved for pcARS.
BADNED should know more, but I am not sure he will be willing to share it due to some NDA I guess.
What I understood is how Atari somehow recently obtained the rights to publish *Ferrari Project* and decided to do so under the "Test Drive" name - probably with some extended Ferrari license they still hold for Test Drive Unlimited 2 - and without Atari there would be no Test Drive: Ferrari Racing Legends title at all.
What we don't know is have the SMS sold their *Ferrari Project* to Atari, or did Atari got it from someone else (maybe EA?) who was holding the rights of the project - but my bet goes to the later. There is no info to be gained anywhere, but it could be how EA obtained the rights for FP when SMS was making Shift for them, but after closure of Shift and departure of SMS, rights and actual game stayed in EA'S hands. And maybe since EA had no way to publish the game because of not having license, they've maybe sold it to Atari who still have the rights to Ferrari (to release it before this generation ends, no use of having finished this-gen game in the drawer with the new generation incoming) and earn some cash they would never earn themselves.
There is something crazy going on behind closed doors at this point, because game has only been released in US and EU release is nowehere to be seen - probably due to complication with the Ferrrari license on the EU/PAL territories or maybe even with the platforms (that crazy situation with limited licenses where publisher is granted the rights for Ferrari on year-to-year basis for particular platform).
Another strange thing is how actual game is not mentioned on the SMS web, despite SMS being credited for it. And Bell does not like to speak about it although he acknowledges they've done the (majority of) work. Which could also be point into SMS not being fond of whereabouts of the game which implies they're not the ones who sold the project to Atari.
Everything above is pure speculation of course, there is no real info to be gathered anywhere, just small details and bits.
In 2010 I tried to cover complete crazyness regarding Ferrari licensing, so feel free to see it here. However notice that recent whereabouts of the license (post 2010) are not covered.
Me too.
I presume it is internal project made for Porsche with pCARS (Shift 2) engine in the veins of similar *company internal demos* that Polyphony Digital does for Nissan and Toyota for instance. However, I hope Automaniax will be released to public, as the original web implies.
Somewhat related to pCARS -> first Automaniax trailer http://vimeo.com/45965364# <- using SMS Madness engine.
Somewhat related to pCARS -> first Automaniax trailer http://vimeo.com/45965364# <- using SMS Madness engine.
Is Virtuality an actualy word? lol
Edit: I guess it is..it's not just a crappy 90s movie lol.
Yeah, SMS definitely aren't in charge of the website and/or everything behind it, the grammar and their crappy website sure proves that, enough for Andy laught at that.
Same engine though and a same tracks.
EDIT:
I just read through the last few pages and I still have no idea what's happening and apparently so doesn't Andy. What the hell is going on?
Apparently not:
Shit seems pretty serious, I just hope everything turns out well for us and the guys at SMS.Ian Bell said:
Sure, probably at medium-ish settings, though the amount of cars will certainly make a difference and things can change weekly, but I have a stable 60fps in time trials with the settings posted a page or few back with a 5850 which is a bit weaker. Best way is to just try
Sure, probably at medium-ish settings, though the amount of cars will certainly make a difference and things can change weekly, but I have a stable 60fps in time trials with the settings posted a page or few back with a 5850 which is a bit weaker. Best way is to just try
How much is left of the photorealistic quality I see in screenshots when you lower the seetings to medium? CPU is an oced i52500k btw. 560TI is oced as well.
I wonder how they got acces to all those stuff and got the Porsches in.
Well here's how it looks for me at the moment, stable 60fps with one car in clear conditions (cloud tech needs some optimising) with a GPU weaker than yours.
Cockpit Cam
Bumper Cam
EDIT: I'll quickly natch a shot with a settings toned down just a little in case you're interested.
I have a 2500k and an HD6950 which is pretty much the equivalent of a 560TI and I play with everything on max settings.
Welp, how bizarre. If the other people actually had access to source code or something and violated a contract/agreement, then SMS should presumably have no issue shutting them down though.
mclaren777
Member
Ian Bell said:
If Automaniax gets the physics/FFB right, perhaps SMS might be willing to partner with them in exchange for not filing a lawsuit.
Edit: or perhaps SMS can get the Porsche license out of this.
Yeah, a company that basically stole assets from an unfinished product and shoehorned Porsches in it are sure to have a devteam ready to perfect the physics and FFB before the company that actually owns the engine.
C'mon now.
Hm, I think the 6950 is way faster. The 6870 is more like the 560TI.
They seem to get compared a lot though. I have quite a few 560Ti vs 6950 hits on Google.
mclaren777
Member
My idea sounds crazy, but similar things have happened. Technically, Automaniax hasn't caused any financial harm to SMS yet so there's still time to salvage that relationship.
Here's a few screens with MSAA dropped to 4x, reflections to medium and blur off:
Zonda R Cockpit Cam
Zonra R Helmet Cam
BAC Mono roof cam
And here's a little comparison on what the FXAA injector does if you don't use any color correction (it's better quality version than the normal injector with post- and pre-sharpen):
FXAA Off
FXAA On
Not exactly the difference of photorealism and a game, is it? Some of those shots just looks better because of the tuned colors (which is why the game's lighting needs to balanced and polished eventually) and good compositions with possible downsampling to get good IQ, not because of some Photo Mode wizardry or heavy DirectX-modding like ENB. And yes, the game can look downright ugly at times, especially some of the pit areas look horrendous sometimes.
Edit: I also had stable 60fps in the Zonda shots even though there were a few clouds in the sky so with those settings 60fps should be no problem for your computer. Oh, and not to cause confusion, those three shots were taken whilst racing, I just had the HUD turned off and I still have to say that it looks better in motion
Zonda R Cockpit Cam
Zonra R Helmet Cam
BAC Mono roof cam
And here's a little comparison on what the FXAA injector does if you don't use any color correction (it's better quality version than the normal injector with post- and pre-sharpen):
FXAA Off
FXAA On
Not exactly the difference of photorealism and a game, is it? Some of those shots just looks better because of the tuned colors (which is why the game's lighting needs to balanced and polished eventually) and good compositions with possible downsampling to get good IQ, not because of some Photo Mode wizardry or heavy DirectX-modding like ENB. And yes, the game can look downright ugly at times, especially some of the pit areas look horrendous sometimes.
Edit: I also had stable 60fps in the Zonda shots even though there were a few clouds in the sky so with those settings 60fps should be no problem for your computer. Oh, and not to cause confusion, those three shots were taken whilst racing, I just had the HUD turned off and I still have to say that it looks better in motion
Paladin CL
Member
I remember that project, looked quite impressive for that time and Badned said that Test Drive Ferrari was made before Shift even (which could explain why doesnt look as good). Still the point remains, if they got the money for one license.. why they didnt make a deal to expand it to Pcars.
A possible answer could be that Atari hold the license of Ferrari for Test Drive series in xbox and that would have been the only way to release it, since apart from MS noone else have it in that platform.
mclaren777
Member
Big Takeover
Member
Too funny. Somewhere down the line somebody got scammed.
Automaniax's footage was just re-purposed from some b-roll vid Darren White (SMS) had on his website.
http://www.darrenwhiteart.com/reel-2011/
Automaniax's footage was just re-purposed from some b-roll vid Darren White (SMS) had on his website.
http://www.darrenwhiteart.com/reel-2011/
TJP
Member
Here are the pictures posted first on the VirtualR website - http://www.virtualr.net/automaniax-porsche-online-in-legal-trouble:
Trolling right?
On that topic, what was the reason you were banned from PCars and what did you lie about?
mclaren777
Member
Nope, no trolling. I still think pCARS could use some major improvements in those two areas and voicing that concern in an unhelpful way is what got me banned in January.
On a related note, I've really enjoyed reading through "AJ's Thread" in the physics sub-forum. It has tons of great insight and it's given me hope that pCARS might be a game that I will buy.
It's not about the relationship, I think my post was clear enough?
There's an interesting Pcars thread over on the AVForums. It starts off very positively about the game, then degenerates as a few people voice their concerns about not getting what (they perceive) they were promised when they initially invested, and about the direction the project is heading in.
I don't think I've ever seen such an about-turn in attitude towards a game before.
Is this a much wider issue or one limited mainly to that forum? I've not heard much about it from other sources.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/pc-gaming/1442975-project-c-r-s.html
I don't think I've ever seen such an about-turn in attitude towards a game before.
Is this a much wider issue or one limited mainly to that forum? I've not heard much about it from other sources.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/pc-gaming/1442975-project-c-r-s.html
A few people on there seem convinced that SMS changed the investor rewards AFTER they had signed up and paid their money. I'm not a member myself so can't comment, but they seemed to think the offer of a free game was withdrawn. Sounds like it could be down to misinterpretation/semantics, though.
Others seem upset that Pcars was allegedly originally pitched as a full-blown sim in the early days, but now appears to be occupying a middle ground between GT5/FM4 and rFactor (which I am absolutely happy with, to be brutally honest).
+1 here.
I am really interested how this whole automaniaX thing will turn out, maybe they will come to an agreement after all and we will get Porsches
Yeah, Team Members were promised a free game. Then again, the problem was they had too many doors open at that time. They wanted to go f2p, so a free copy meant little. I wish they stood by their word, because there was a lot of confusion and that didn¡t help the project.
I still think the project is worth the money, but, as I've stated many ntimes, I don't like how thijgs are done business wise.
mclaren777
Member
That is actually quite common on a lot of forums. GAF is remarkably positive about pCARS, which is weird given our reputation for cynicism. pCARS isn't as well received as you might think, especially among the sim racing crowd.
Jamesways
Member
No kidding, just read the comments in any VirtualR update post on it.
mclaren777
Member
The simple fact that it's coming out on consoles is probably enough for hard-core sim racers to doubt its authenticity. Personally, I was initially drawn to pCars (knowing nothing else about the project) because of the drop-dead gorgeous visuals. Further investigation got me more excited, but was tempered with some trepidation about how accessible it might be for me - I'm a console player and a big fan of Forza and Gran Turismo, not a PC sim racer. If the game is indeed veering towards a more sim-like version of FM/GT then I can understand the sneers from the out-and-out sim fraternity, but I'm personally quite glad about the concept, especially with SMS's history with creating a decent race-day atmosphere. I'd need reassurances about the physics and handling following Shift's mixed bag, but I gather pCars is already showing great improvements in that area.
Yeah, if you look back in this thread I was also quite upset back then because of all the uncertainties (I was team member back then). Not only f2p or not, also because it wasn't clear what would be enough support to warrant a reward.
But I have to say since the decision that it will be retail the project convinced me more and more and the progress lately is really enormous. I'm not happy with the car lineup so far (especially the rate of classic cars is too high for me personally, too much emphasis on english cars and also tracks) but I'm positive that this will change with a few announcement like the BMW one (again, I wouldn't have needed the 1940 car). I'm also (positively) surprised by the huge number of tracks in general, and there are still more to come!
All my respect to SMS for managing such a huge project with such a tiny budget and I am positive that in the end even McLaren will be satisfied with the result
Was cars originally a PC title only?
If that was the case, then I can understand people getting upset about it not being a full blown sim. But if it was intended to be on all platforms, then surely people can understand that in order to reach the wider audience, some leeway had to be adopted.
If that was the case, then I can understand people getting upset about it not being a full blown sim. But if it was intended to be on all platforms, then surely people can understand that in order to reach the wider audience, some leeway had to be adopted.
mclaren777
Member
No. When it was first announced, the financial structure relied on profits from all four platforms.
As far as I can tell, there hasn't been any compromise so far due to the game being multiplatform. Console version will be inferior and that's it. The aim is to have the best version any platform can have.
I think sim purists are upset because the game doesn't feel like the game they like, or doesn't feel "sim enough", or they expected a game that would fullfill their craziest dreams; a very obscure sim with awesome graphics.
No matter how you look at it, most criticism comes from people being ignorant: the game is a year off, and people are expecting that everything can work to their desire now. There're lots of thing to be included and tweaked later on. But people passes judgement now. If you take a look at how the game was when it was first open to the public, it's crazy how much it's evolved and it hasn't even been a year ever since.
The sim racing crowd consists largely of a bunch of children who think their opinion is the only right opinion. Hence the VirtualR comment section. I think that of all communities I have 'experience' with, the sim racing crowd is the worst I've encountered.
SMS never had the luxury of having a good name in the sim community like Kunos and ISI have. Asetto Corsa for example is already held in high regard while near to no one has even tried it, while a lot people were convinced that CARS was going to be shit because SMS made it.
At least wait for the new tire model, but that seems to hard for some people to graps how much a game changes over a year in development.
TJP
Member
I agree with Dilly regarding 'experts' in the racing simulation community.
Very nearly everyone who posts on the specialist forums has an opinion on what is real based on their own experiences which usually means they've watched racing either live or on TV for X amount of years.
Very nearly everyone who posts on the specialist forums has an opinion on what is real based on their own experiences which usually means they've watched racing either live or on TV for X amount of years.
Assetto Corsa is held in high regard because of NetKar Pro and Ferrari Virtual Academy whilst many of the same people look at CARS and shout "arcade" because of Shift and Unleashed (both fun games IMO) whilst forgetting SMS also help to make GTR 1 & GTR 2 and GT Legends.
TJP
Member
I was quoted in the AVForums CARS thread by a post I made on the Strange Developments forum 8) Do you still visit the SD forums Mascot?
The RaceDepartment CARS forum is an interesting read as a few people have VERY strong opinions!