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[Shinta]

Um, the only evidence supporting this is a article that says they're "We’re checking [Skyrim] out aggressively. We like it. We’re big admirers of [Bethesda] and the product". This could be a lot of things. I honestly doubt the game will be first person.

So instead of chasing Call of Duty, they'll chase Skyrim? I guess it's a step in the right direction if you look at it like that ... kinda.

Honestly, sounds like Kingdoms of Amalur to me. If they're looking at Skyrim, they would probably keep the Dragon Age 2 focus on action in combat, and go for a more open setting. Basically KoA.

 

[DocSeuss]

MotB was better than DA:O (not be leagues!) but only because of the things that should matter in RPGs. I hold firm that I'd rather not struggle with a poor system of interaction to get to an amazing story. An amazing system of interaction for a mediocre story is to me, far more entertaining. That's why I never could get into S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Besides, we know that Obsidian is the king of IE style games and that DA:O is even being compared to MotB is a complement to it.

I don't understand this. You like amazing interaction, but... you don't like STALKER? What?

I'll remain cautiously optimistic. Dragon Age II was shit, but it seems like Bioware has finally owned up to that and is trying to distance itself from the game.

Actually, Bioware hasn't owned up to that, and has been doing everything in their power to avoid admitting as such. Anyone remember the "a lot of people worked hard on it, so we're never going to say it was bad" statement?

Bethesda has ruined WRPGs hasn't it?

No, because Bethesda has the best RPGs on the market. They facilitate role-play better than any other games out there by taking a different tack than DnD games; instead, they rely on the elements of immersive sims, to allow the player to really become a character in another world.

I guess you could argue they've murdered the isometric RPG, or at least done it a great deal of harm, but they certainly haven't ruined RPGs.

 

[Sajuuk]

late 2013? i guess it will be delayed to march 2014 to make ea look good in the fiscal reports just like mass effect 3.

 

[AppleMIX]

Actually a lot of evidence points to it. Bioware is looking for a clear direction change with Dragon Age, and they know first person is popular right now. Bioware has a history of taking inspiration from popular franchises and incorporating their elements. I don't need to go over how drastically different Mass Effect 2 and 3 would have been if COD and Gears of War were not as popular.

First person game have be popular for a while. Oblivion, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas have all had commercial success and this was before DA1 and DA2. Considering how vulnerable the DA fanbase is right now, I honestly doubt they will do something radically different from DA:O. It even says so in the press release "This game is being made by a lot of the same team that has been working on Dragon Age since Dragon Age: Origins. It's composed of both experienced BioWare veterans and talented new developers".

 

[marrec]

I don't understand this. You like amazing interaction, but... you don't like STALKER? What?

There was a big thing in the last Steam sale thread about my dislike of STALKER. It's mostly to do with the terrible UI and Bugs and Performance Issues. If the games makes it a chore to do the most simple things, I usually won't enjoy it.

No, because Bethesda has the best RPGs on the market. They facilitate role-play better than any other games out there by taking a different tack than DnD games; instead, they rely on the elements of immersive sims, to allow the player to really become a character in another world.

I guess you could argue they've murdered the isometric RPG, or at least done it a great deal of harm, but they certainly haven't ruined RPGs.

If RPG developers are going to start copying Skyrim then we're in for a long stretch of bad RPGs. Skyrim and Oblivion are both extreme disappointments coming off of Morrowind and I'd much rather Bathesda take a step back into time to remember what made Elder Scrolls so good in the past.

That said, I put 36 hours into Skyrim before realizing how bad it was.

 

[Trigger]

I think Skyrim is a game that requires lots of skill and polish to make work. I don't think Bioware could dedicate the time and resources to doing that concept justice.

 

[Shinta]

No, because Bethesda has the best RPGs on the market. They facilitate role-play better than any other games out there by taking a different tack than DnD games; instead, they rely on the elements of immersive sims, to allow the player to really become a character in another world.

Morrowind was great, and they've kind of gone downhill ever since. They just keep remaking the same game, over and over with slight alterations. Each time, it gets a little more streamlined, simplified, and accessible to casual gamers.

I find them to be dreadfully boring. Oblivion and Skyrim are basically about being a cleptomaniac in a generic Tolkien world. In contrast, Morrowind felt fresh and extremely original - not just the art, and world, but (at the time) the gameplay as well.

 

[inky]

I doubt they'll make it First Person guys, makes no sense they would do that even if they want to emulate Skyrim. My guess is that they are going to make it even more of a Hack & Slash, maybe have an open leveling perk system and try to do the world and quests work more like Skyrim did, in a way in which you can progress by going through different paths.

 

[HK-47]

Playing it on nightmare (or even on hard) is the epitome of the RPG battle systems. I'd be ok if they introduced new, interesting scenarios to the fights, but if one thing, they should add more encounters.

Not even for WRPGs.

 

[Lancehead]

There was a big thing in the last Steam sale thread about my dislike of STALKER. It's mostly to do with the terrible UI and Bugs and Performance Issues. If the games makes it a chore to do the most simple things, I usually won't enjoy it.

This may sound like a nitpick but "interaction" is not a proper word for what you're describing. There's a difference between player-game interaction and player character-game world interaction. Interaction usually implies the latter one.

 

[SaberVulcan]

PLease be like DA:O
PLease be like DA:O
PLease be like DA:O
PLease be like DA:O
PLease be like DA:O
PLease be like DA:O
PLease be like DA:O

I played through DA:O 3 times on PC, it was the most interesting and fun RPG I have ever played. To top that off, it didnt hold my hand, it was difficult, and my favorite class was incredibly terrible (2H Warrior). I bought it day 1, as a collector's edition, and rebought it on Steam for ease of play.

I bought DA2 for my 360 for $20 at gamestop, and played through it on the hardest difficulty once, after reading many bad reviews but figuring I owed it to the series to get it. Getting it for the 360 was simply because my PC at the time was broken, but it was better off that I did. The game was basically Dynasty Warriors with the occasional story-aspect peeking through the mashy-styled combat. I seriously have no idea why they thought this was an acceptable sequel to such a good game.

Heres hoping DA3 blows them both out of the water.

 

[Dennis]

Noooooooo why is this thread winning......I like the other one more!

 

[marrec]

This may sound like a nitpick but "interaction" is not a proper word for what you're describing. There's a difference between player-game interaction and player character-game world interaction. Interaction usually implies the latter one.

I'm not sure if there is an official definition, but I'm talking about the Human-Game interface yes.

 

[Tex117]

I actually hope they don't follow Skyrim's lead. And I love Skyrim...even as it is a janky mess on ps3.

For starters, I'd be shocked if they switched to a first person mode. I really..REALLY don't think they would do this.

Second, Skyrim is awesome in terms of atmosphere. This is what Bethesda excels at. Best in the business. Fallout 3 and Skyrim are incredibly atmosphereic games (though game play can be pretty stiff, but thats not their strong suit).

Bioware does a good job at writing characters and creating entertaining stories. This is their strong suit. (despite the me3 ending).

Bioware needs to stop recycled enviroments entirely. Re-vamp the "another wave!" gameplay mechanic, make the entire party customizable, keep the story as a "arc" and not the puntuated crap of DA2 (which they could have had work if done correctly), and they will make a good game. That simple.

 

[Sapphire Dreams]

Did you mainly enjoy the combat?

I normally pre-order exciting games such as DA:O but this time I'll wait a few weeks to gauge the response from GAF.

I liked the combat and music, the rest wasn't bad it was just meh.

 

[HK-47]

DA2 had the best companions and companions interactions of just about any RPG I've ever played. Too bad so many GAFers were too busy screaming "shit mountain" to find out.

So you have played one rpg

 

[DocSeuss]

There was a big thing in the last Steam sale thread about my dislike of STALKER. It's mostly to do with the terrible UI and Bugs and Performance Issues. If the games makes it a chore to do the most simple things, I usually won't enjoy it.



If RPG developers are going to start copying Skyrim then we're in for a long stretch of bad RPGs. Skyrim and Oblivion are both extreme disappointments coming off of Morrowind and I'd much rather Bathesda take a step back into time to remember what made Elder Scrolls so good in the past.

That said, I put 36 hours into Skyrim before realizing how bad it was.

That's not interaction. Interaction is the way in which you interact with the game's systems and world, not whether or not it's got bugs. I believe you're referring to UX.

I disagree. Skyrim is a fantastic game--unbalanced in some ways, to be sure, and in need of improvement, but still fantastic. It is the goal that Bethesda has been working towards ever since they first laid their eyes on Ultima Underworld. They've been getting rid of the unnecessary systemic interactions while improving the way players interact with the world.

If they made combat a bit more Dark Messiah-influenced, the game would skyrocket in quality.

 

[Trigger]

I played through DA:O 3 times on PC, it was the most interesting and fun RPG I have ever played. To top that off, it didnt hold my hand, it was difficult, and my favorite class was incredibly terrible (2H Warrior). I bought it day 1, as a collector's edition, and rebought it on Steam for ease of play.

I bought DA2 for my 360 for $20 at gamestop, and played through it on the hardest difficulty once, after reading many bad reviews but figuring I owed it to the series to get it. Getting it for the 360 was simply because my PC at the time was broken, but it was better off that I did. The game was basically Dynasty Warriors with the occasional story-aspect peeking through the mashy-styled combat. I seriously have no idea why they thought this was an acceptable sequel to such a good game.

Heres hoping DA3 blows them both out of the water.

My understanding is that DA2 was in development before they saw how successful Origins was.

 

[Digoman]

So the response to criticisms of DA2 is to make the sequel in first person, even less tactical, and just try to copy the "hit" next door? Well... ok, that sound like something Bioware would try to do.

I liked both DA:Origins and Skyrim... doesn't mean I want them be the same game

On the other hand, it would probably be a disaster that would be fun to watch...

 

[subversus]

So you have played one rpg

this made me chuckle

 

[marrec]

That's not interaction. Interaction is the way in which you interact with the game's systems and world, not whether or not it's got bugs. I believe you're referring to UX.

Human-Game Interaction, I suppose I need to make this clear next time I talk about it. In games like NWN2 and STALKER though it goes further than just Human-Game Interaction and into Character-Game Interaction. Almost everything in STALKER was unnecessarily obfuscated and obtuse because the UI was awful and it made it difficult for the Character to interact. In NWN2 the awful camera and general bugginess did the same.

I disagree. Skyrim is a fantastic game--unbalanced in some ways, to be sure, and in need of improvement, but still fantastic. It is the goal that Bethesda has been working towards ever since they first laid their eyes on Ultima Underworld. They've been getting rid of the unnecessary systemic interactions while improving the way players interact with the world.

If they made combat a bit more Dark Messiah-influenced, the game would skyrocket in quality.

The problem with Skyrim is the opposite of STALKER and NWN2. It's so polished and easy to do what you want, but it's generic and boring. The 'atmosphere' is engaging until you realize how empty the world is and the antagonists you face are not varied at all. The actual story is probably the worst in any WRPG (besides maybe DA2) and the variability of equipment stats and equipment aesthetics is poor.

It's polished as hell though.

 

[Sipowicz]

In the age of the kickstarter is this game really necessary?

we have the creme de la creme of the WRPG world making games, most of which are PC exclusive

then we have this laughable series getting a new entry from terrible developers that are a shadow of their former selves

and then there's EA. officially the worst company in america, unofficially the worst and most destructive videogame company of all time. they will overcharge you. they will dumb this game down and rush it. they will charge you big money for stuff that should have been in the game to start with. they will charge you big money to play this game second hand.

seriously. what's the point?

 

[Lancehead]

seriously. what's the point?

There's an audience and they're being catered to.

It's no different than kickstarters catering to certain audiences.

 

[Dennis]

It goes up it goes down.

A few years ago Bioware was on top of the RPG world with Mass Effect (sci-fi) and DA:O (fantasy). Then they crashed with Mass Effect 2 and DA 2.

Maybe they are on their way up again.

 

[Stallion Free]

I would say two main benefits:

1.) It's vastly faster to create content in Frostbite 2, so you can in theory have a lot more of it.
2.) It handles memory vastly better than their own engine, so they can fit a lot more in any given scene/thing, ranging from graphics to more enemies to more variety among classes and enemies.

Whether they actually do that is of course to be determined.

Last I read, the content pipeline for Frostbite was still pretty bad. That came up when they were explaining the mapping process and why it was too difficult to release mod tools I believe. And possibly as an explanation for why the DLC took so long to come out for BF3.

 

[Sipowicz]

There's an audience and they're being catered to.

It's no different than kickstarters catering to certain audiences.

and i wonder how much of an audience remains for this terrible franchise from a terrible developer owned by a terrible publisher

i genuinely do

 

[DocSeuss]

Human-Game Interaction, I suppose I need to make this clear next time I talk about it. In games like NWN2 and STALKER though it goes further than just Human-Game Interaction and into Character-Game Interaction. Almost everything in STALKER was unnecessarily obfuscated and obtuse because the UI was awful and it made it difficult for the Character to interact. In NWN2 the awful camera and general bugginess did the same.

Yes, it's called UX. User Experience. Your experience using NWN2 was bad because it had an awful camera and bugs.

I don't understand what you mean about the UI being awful, though. Can you expound?

The problem with Skyrim is the opposite of STALKER and NWN2. It's so polished and easy to do what you want, but it's generic and boring. The 'atmosphere' is engaging until you realize how empty the world is and the antagonists you face are not varied at all. The actual story is probably the worst in any WRPG (besides maybe DA2) and the variability of equipment stats and equipment aesthetics is poor.

It's polished as hell though.

I wouldn't call it generic. When exploring the world, I was driven by a constant sense of "what the hell is that?" Buildings, monsters, whatever. I saw it, it made me curious, and I explored it.

The world is pretty damn populated too--you say it's empty, but nearly everywhere you go in the game, you've always got about three map markers to something interesting nearby.

The plot itself is interesting, but extremely poorly told. Many of the elements that hold Skyrim back are technical in nature (such as having a very small number of enemies on screen at any given time), or control-related (combat does not feel satisfying). There's also the issue of them recycling content.

I wholly disagree about the equipment aesthetics--they feel very much like items one might actually find in an actual world. Perhaps you find them mundane (I won't pretend to know what your tastes in game clothing are). For my part, there was very much a "yup, people would wear this" feel.

These are areas they can improve upon, but I wouldn't say any of those areas specifically make it a bad game.

 

[Lancehead]

It goes up it goes down.

A few years ago Bioware was on top of the RPG world with Mass Effect (sci-fi) and DA:O (fantasy). Then they crashed with Mass Effect 2 and DA 2.

Maybe they are on their way up again.

I agree with you. As far as visuals are concerned.

 

[subversus]

There's an audience and they're being catered to.

yeah, I'm really not sure about this.

Too nerdy for mainstream, too dull for former audience (if we talk about DA)

 

[Dennis]

Buyerbeware is no worse than Betashed

 

[Lime]

and i wonder how much of an audience remains for this terrible franchise from a terrible developer owned by a terrible publisher

i genuinely do

I like this post.

 

[Taruranto]

But i though Skyrim, ME3 and DA2 had all the same audience!

 

[Lancehead]

yeah, I'm really not sure about this.

Too nerdy for mainstream, too dull for former audience (if we talk about DA)

Well, you can't deny there's an audience for their romances and characters. Combat they've been trying to appeal to mainstream.

 

[Kinyou]

I don't think you understand how much more Mass Effect I want/need.

Well there's that anime coming up.....

Spoiler

I'm so sorry

 

[Wanny]

Errr I personally still consider ME2 as the best of the series... They didn't really start to fail there.

 

[Trigger]

In the age of the kickstarter is this game really necessary?

we have the creme de la creme of the WRPG world making games, most of which are PC exclusive

then we have this laughable series getting a new entry from terrible developers that are a shadow of their former selves

and then there's EA. officially the worst company in america, unofficially the worst and most destructive videogame company of all time. they will overcharge you. they will dumb this game down and rush it. they will charge you big money for stuff that should have been in the game to start with. they will charge you big money to play this game second hand.

seriously. what's the point?

To make love to elves. Brooding elves.

 

[Dennis]

Errr I personally still consider ME2 as the best of the series... They didn't really start to fail there.

Yes they did.

I truly felt Bioware was at the top of their game. Imagine releasing the best old-school fantasy RPG at the same time you are releasing the 70s technicolor sci-fi technooptimist masterpiece that is Mass Effect.

 

[Goodacre0081]

why was the first game called Dragon Age:Origins and not just Dragon Age?

 

[subversus]

Well, you can't deny there's an audience for their romances and characters. Combat they've been trying to appeal to mainstream.

I really doubt that. If we follow this logic then DAII must have been a hit. It was not.

 

[Dennis]

why was the first game called Dragon Age:Origins and not just Dragon Age?

 

[Rad-]

I want to believe that this will be more like DA:O and way less like DA2. For one, DA:O sold a crap load more so even EA should think that way.

 

[BeesEight]

If RPG developers are going to start copying Skyrim then we're in for a long stretch of bad RPGs. Skyrim and Oblivion are both extreme disappointments coming off of Morrowind and I'd much rather Bathesda take a step back into time to remember what made Elder Scrolls so good in the past.

That said, I put 36 hours into Skyrim before realizing how bad it was.

Certainly you mistyped and meant to say Daggerfall.

Honestly, I think Skyrim is their second best outing in the Elder Scroll's series. I don't think it will ever top anyone's first introduction (whether that be Daggerfall or Morrowind) but each iteration removes aspects that made the previous one so enjoyable to the fans.

But if you can approach them as separate games without the legacy of the ones before them I think you can find them more enjoyable.

It would be absolutely hilarious if BioWare attempted to follow the format of TES, though. They don't have the experience with that type of game and it does not play to what little strength the company still has left.

 

[Nirolak]

Last I read, the content pipeline for Frostbite was still pretty bad. That came up when they were explaining the mapping process and why it was too difficult to release mod tools I believe. And possibly as an explanation for why the DLC took so long to come out for BF3.

I thought that was almost entirely a "we pipe through a lot of middleware we don't want to pay public licenses for" issue as opposed to a "it's too hard too pipe for anyone else" issue?

I haven't read every article about it however, so I could be wrong.

 

[Mxrz]

Not sure what I want. I didn't like DA:O very much. Awful story, weird sex-starved characters, but the combat was ok. DA2 was great for those first two chapters, with even better combat, but then the last half was so godawful.

I guess DA2's adventure/mercenary/exploration plot set in a bigger area like DA:O would work for me. But we all know its going to be more Mages vs Templars crap, this time with multiplayer.

 

[Lime]

I want to believe that this will be more like DA:O and way less like DA2. For one, DA:O sold a crap load more so even EA should think that way.

You forgot the most important factor of why this game most probably will be a pile of shit:

Bioware.

 

[SerRodrik]

You forgot the most important factor of why this game most probably will be a pile of shit:

Bioware.

I would go with EA over Bioware, but I suppose they're basically the same entity at this point.

 

[Kinyou]

Errr I personally still consider ME2 as the best of the series... They didn't really start to fail there.

ME2 was the game where they said "iventory? different armors? fuck it"

So yeah, that was definitely the beginning of the end for me.

 

[Stallion Free]

I thought that was almost entirely a "we pipe through a lot of middleware we don't want to pay public licenses for" issue as opposed to a "it's too hard too pipe for anyone else" issue?

I haven't read every article about it however, so I could be wrong.

Ah the wiki says this:

"Frostbite 1.5 games are built using a complicated chain of compilers, version control and distributed caches, making it very difficult to install to a new environment: it took a week for one DICE employee to set the system up outside the company's offices.[17]
Frostbite 2 is said to greatly improve this "flaky" pipeline, and DICE has not ruled out the feasibility of releasing mod tools for it.[18]"

 

[Lancehead]

I really doubt that. If we follow this logic then DAII must have been a hit. It was not.

DAII failed because they tried to appeal to largely incompatible audiences, namely those who wanted classic tactical combat and those who like action combat. Audience that likes BioWare characters and romances can be compatible with audience that like action-oriented combat, I think.

 

[Nirolak]

Ah the wiki says this:

"Frostbite 1.5 games are built using a complicated chain of compilers, version control and distributed caches, making it very difficult to install to a new environment: it took a week for one DICE employee to set the system up outside the company's offices.[17]
Frostbite 2 is said to greatly improve this "flaky" pipeline, and DICE has not ruled out the feasibility of releasing mod tools for it.[18]"

Yeah, I remember Frostbite 1 being a nightmare that no one else wanted to use.

I think that one setup outside of the office was Criterion, since Chameleon is a mod of Frostbite 1.X IIRC.