TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Why? Is Publisher/PR/Editorial disaster but has nothing to do with the consumer or the enthusiast community (apart from the misogynist comments against Wainwright).
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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos
- Thread starter papersleeves
- Start date
- Status
Why? Is Publisher/PR/Editorial disaster but has nothing to do with the consumer or the enthusiast community (apart from the misogynist comments against Wainwright).
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Agreed. I don't intend to defend her for how she's handled this situation, but I don't feel that those posts are necessary relevant.
DrAndonuts
Member
Holy crap, this is gold.
Late to the party, but:
1. Good on Rab for posting
2. Unfortunate on Eurogamer for amending
3. I love that picture of Keighley
WillyFive mentioned it in our thread, but we kind of hit on (not nearly as well as Rab) and made fun of some of the points about the gaming press in our episode that hit 3 weeks ago. Pretty weird.
#freeps3
DangerStepp
Member
What the HELL is going on around here today?
It's as if everything ugly and horrible about gaming politics has decided to rear its ugly head.
JESUS.
Well, Gerstmann also "quit," right?
Well okay sure. He wasn't "fired," he was forced into a position where he felt he had no option but to leave.
Not a huge difference really. Presumably he told them that if they made these changes to the article he would have to leave, and they made them.
My point was that it was presented to the public in pretty vague terms, at least as I recall. Nothing was really clarified until the merger with CBS. (I could be remember the words used wrong, though, since it was pretty obvious what was actually going on.)
No, he was 'dismissed'.
I don't buy this. Retail is sales, through and through. Buyer beware, especially in taking sales associates word at face value.
But the onus of a game writer that provides a critical review, is to offer objectivity. Especially so from the eyes of an employer that holds objectivity as a value or upholds an ethics policy against any activities that could potentially damage the integrity of its materials.
It matters where the Oscars are going to. And as a matter of fact, would the Oscars be as bad as the Video-Games awards hosted by our dear journalist Geoff Keighley ( I know, I know. Geoff Keighley a journalist, a bad joke.) Twillight and Transformers would be the only ones with hope for winning a award.
This industry needs to grow up. And show some backbone.
I've Been accompanying this during the afternoon and holy shit. How can an opinion column explode out of proportion like this? I don't know what Lauren Wainwright expected when she started to edit all her past on the internet, this is something that usually doesn't end well, but this doesn't justify the hate that she is receiving. Hope that people come to their senses.
The Kryll automatically make Gears 1 a 7/10.
I agree. Unlike in mathematics, positives and negatives of a person's work don't cancel each other but become different facets of it.
Ehhh it had the best multiplayer out of any game I played this generation so just for that it's a 10. Haven't found anything that compares since.
Beautifully Shaped Monsters
Member
To be honest, I could see this being the case. Some legal from SE asking here to cease all mentioning of them on her page.
edit: Sorry, just realised I was several hours behind in the fast moving world of the internet on this one.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
The Oscars are currently also in a really bad state and the credibility is also fragile. Of course, is not horrible like the Spike Video Game awards but is safe to say that being in the same cultural status in this day and age is difficult specially in a industry where personalities are not as recognized.
And a couple of these facets need to be called out. Simple as fuck.
What a sad little bubble you live in.
drkOne
Member
The internet has no class. And she upset the internet.
Someone told Klepek he was glad his father died because now he was spending less time on Giantbomb. And he didn't even do anything other than being himself...
zerokoolpsx
Member
Talk about being late to the party.
That column just exploded on the internet. The damage control and the backpedaling. Wow. WTF.
That column just exploded on the internet. The damage control and the backpedaling. Wow. WTF.
VGAs are more like the MTV Movie Awards, DICE and GDC hold much greater reverence within the industry.
Just dropping my perspective into this frothing hoard.
First, I find it appalling the way some people have decided it is necessary to personaly attack someone for anything they do that is not a personal attack itself. Fight fire with fire, don't fight a damn straw house with fire.
More importantly, the larger issue is not whether or not she is a big fan of tomb raider in real life, but rather the fact she pretended to maintain an unbias opinion. I don't feel that any journalist of any merit whatsoever would agree to review Harry Potter if they were a crazy J.K. Rowling stalking fanboy. It just doesn't make sense. Gaming journalists should be fans of the medium, and certainly of the particular genre in which they review most heavily, they should not however, admittedly, own every possible version of a series and then pretend to be able to give an unbiased opinion about it.
In my personal opinion, gaming journalism should offer more critique, less absolute scores, less propaganda, and all around better sense of what it is to play the game that the reviewer is looking at.
First, I find it appalling the way some people have decided it is necessary to personaly attack someone for anything they do that is not a personal attack itself. Fight fire with fire, don't fight a damn straw house with fire.
More importantly, the larger issue is not whether or not she is a big fan of tomb raider in real life, but rather the fact she pretended to maintain an unbias opinion. I don't feel that any journalist of any merit whatsoever would agree to review Harry Potter if they were a crazy J.K. Rowling stalking fanboy. It just doesn't make sense. Gaming journalists should be fans of the medium, and certainly of the particular genre in which they review most heavily, they should not however, admittedly, own every possible version of a series and then pretend to be able to give an unbiased opinion about it.
In my personal opinion, gaming journalism should offer more critique, less absolute scores, less propaganda, and all around better sense of what it is to play the game that the reviewer is looking at.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
This girl shoud have a great time getting work in the industry now.
And even before all of this happened my original thoughts stand and I'm glad Geoff is getting pointed out on this. He is everything that is wrong with gaming journalism. He's the Ryan Seacrest of the gaming world, except the difference is people give him integrity. He's so far beyond just being a sheep following the herd it's disgusting. Until this guy gets the fuck out of the industry, we won't see anything change. Absolutely nothing.
And even before all of this happened my original thoughts stand and I'm glad Geoff is getting pointed out on this. He is everything that is wrong with gaming journalism. He's the Ryan Seacrest of the gaming world, except the difference is people give him integrity. He's so far beyond just being a sheep following the herd it's disgusting. Until this guy gets the fuck out of the industry, we won't see anything change. Absolutely nothing.
Gaining atleast a glimpse of reputation the Oscars got would be a start. Hack, even a glimpse of the reputation of the Golden Globe awards would be x100.
Okay. I don't see any contradiction with what I said.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Yeah, but VGA gets way more exposure, and DICE and GDC are not even taken in consideration within the average forum gamer
Hasn't this whole thing been blown way out of proportion? Going on some kind of witch hunt against a person, just because they were angered by the insinuation that they were not good at their job is quite frankly puzzling to me. Is it any wonder that all those writers tweeted that hashtag when PR and advertising has such a stranglehold on the games journalism industry as a whole? Why are there people haranguing this single person as though she is now suddenly a bad writer and bad at her job, when there's at least 20 people who did the exact same thing she did but just weren't called out in that article for doing it?
As much as the suggestion of libel seems an overreaction to the circumstances, so is the reaction of the gaming communities who are scapegoating somebody they hardly know anything about and have probably never heard of before today.
As much as the suggestion of libel seems an overreaction to the circumstances, so is the reaction of the gaming communities who are scapegoating somebody they hardly know anything about and have probably never heard of before today.
Ken Masters
Banned
So a fanboy writing about their favorite series. I'm sure that's going to lead to objective accurate articles
Risible
Member
HOLY FUCKBALLS. Are you kidding me? Jesus Christ, if that's not the mark of a sociopath I don't know what is.
Yeah, reading the original piece I did feel like it was somewhat overlooking the good work Geoff has done, particularly with Final Hours. Agree with you and StuBurns on that much.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Because is still a shit thing to do.
GillianSeed79
Member
The VGA's are still on Spike though. I can't imagine the ratings are all that great since it's on a pretty niche, basic cable channel. GDC and DICE are actually good award shows, but they choose to stream them on the web because they probably realize they'd get lower ratings than even the VGA's. Half the reason people watch the VGA's is for the trailers and reveals. Everything else is usually a train wreck or the man child equivalent of the Nickolodeon Viewers Choice Awards.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Threatening to sue a publication for insinuating something that turned out to be true is a pretty large error
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
That doesn't contradicts what I'm saying
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
It's a bit easier to understand if you read the whole thread as well as the Eurogamer article.
All signs point to "this single person" as threatening some kind of legal action against Eurogamer as a reaction to being called out about her poor actions. This then triggered Eurogamer to edit the original article, which led to the writer's firing or voluntary resignation.
In short, not only was she a particularly shitty journalist, but she tried to stifle the words of an actually good journalist and ignorantly threatened legal action over what turned out to be hard facts regarding her person. Not only that, but she then arrogantly posted about how she accepted Eurogamer's apology.
She absolutely deserves [most] of what she's getting, in my opinion.
FlutterPuffs
Member
To be fair, Wainwright does seem like a total Tomb Raider fanboy than a shill.
I kind of find that hilarious, since she was pretty much a sex object during the PS1 years.
I kind of find that hilarious, since she was pretty much a sex object during the PS1 years.
Right, on the Internet it is.
Raitosaito
Member
Well, I think we can all conclude she is a big fan of Tomb Raider before this whole debacle.
Some of those post existed before her job with S-E from what I can tell, though what is currently happening now is up for discussion.
Getting banned though seems a bit much.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
The average forum gamer doesn't get exposed to the VGA's either.
Ragingbegal
Member
There's some disappointing comments in this thread worth weighing in on. Specifically, those who have dismissed the controversy because it's just "games journalism" and not worth further consideration because it's about toys.
Film was once looked on in this way. It was juvenile. Made for the poor masses and below any serious study. Then people started seeing the impact moving images could have and movies started invoking new emotions in their audiences. Do we not see the same in breath of themes in video games? And at a faster pace than in film?
Of course, if we choose to regard video games as mere toys then we'll likely repeat the same mistakes as those who disregarded the impact of early film.
The film industry eventually got thoughtful critics like Pauline Kael who pioneered film journalism. There are already some excellent writers like Tom Bissel who are doing this. There needs to be more.
Eventually, film critics did begin winning Pulizter prizes. For writing about movies. Even sports journalists — who are possibly the closest to video game reporters in that they're typically enthusiasts — are honored with the same award won by those who covered the Gulf War and life in Haiti. Should we not too demand the same level of thoughtfulness in the industry we enjoy?
There are strong stories out there worth telling. From the often deplorable working conditions of those who make the games we love possible to how a studio's vision can be too ambitious and come crashing down — and taking taxpayers with it. We need well-trained journalists to deliver these deserving stories.
Not demanding that kind of quality has enabled the kind of thing that has gone down during the past two days. Boiled down, video games may just be toys, but they're also a growing medium that continue to become more and more important to our cultural identity. That makes them worth writing about and giving serious consideration. This buddy-buddy club that has journalists in bed with PR and publishers undermines that, and it should be rooted out. So cheers to guys and gals like Rab Florence who see the state of things and do not so easily accept them — and let all us readers do the same.
Film was once looked on in this way. It was juvenile. Made for the poor masses and below any serious study. Then people started seeing the impact moving images could have and movies started invoking new emotions in their audiences. Do we not see the same in breath of themes in video games? And at a faster pace than in film?
Of course, if we choose to regard video games as mere toys then we'll likely repeat the same mistakes as those who disregarded the impact of early film.
The film industry eventually got thoughtful critics like Pauline Kael who pioneered film journalism. There are already some excellent writers like Tom Bissel who are doing this. There needs to be more.
Eventually, film critics did begin winning Pulizter prizes. For writing about movies. Even sports journalists — who are possibly the closest to video game reporters in that they're typically enthusiasts — are honored with the same award won by those who covered the Gulf War and life in Haiti. Should we not too demand the same level of thoughtfulness in the industry we enjoy?
There are strong stories out there worth telling. From the often deplorable working conditions of those who make the games we love possible to how a studio's vision can be too ambitious and come crashing down — and taking taxpayers with it. We need well-trained journalists to deliver these deserving stories.
Not demanding that kind of quality has enabled the kind of thing that has gone down during the past two days. Boiled down, video games may just be toys, but they're also a growing medium that continue to become more and more important to our cultural identity. That makes them worth writing about and giving serious consideration. This buddy-buddy club that has journalists in bed with PR and publishers undermines that, and it should be rooted out. So cheers to guys and gals like Rab Florence who see the state of things and do not so easily accept them — and let all us readers do the same.
As long as she doesn't make OTs the most she'll have to worry about is mocking. Being a huge fan of the series isn't bannable.
chickdigger802
Banned
it's irrelevant if wainwright is a shill or not at this point.
She pretty much started in a really minor pothole, but she kept digging for no reason.
And now this.
She pretty much started in a really minor pothole, but she kept digging for no reason.
And now this.
There is nothing automatically wrong with this. Since people are mentioning Giant Bomb I'll point to Jeff's assessment of MK9 and Brad's assessment of Starcraft 2. Both things they're fans of but they are capable of both acknowledging it as well as detaching themselves from it in order to write useful reviews.
The problem is when someone is working as a PR 'consultant' for a publisher and then out and out lies about it by saying she never reviewed games from said publisher even though she did. And then she tried to cover things up by removing S-E from her profile on that journalism site.
TemplaerDude
Member
Hear hear. Fantastic post.
I don't think there's been any defamation, but yeah, could've been better.
On the plus side, I'd hope at least one media outlet distances themselves from PR influence after this.
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