• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

RedNumberFive

Banned
chickdigger802 said:
Seriously gerstmann is like the first press guy in this thread that admits that he stresses over this stuff, while everyone else is smug and loling around.

That alone is worth something.
Click to expand...

He shouldn't have any stress about this. CBS's own ethics guidelines (which I linked to about 30 pages back) make the issue pretty black and white.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Flavius said:
Serious question: Which was the foul committed by Andrea?

1. That she incorrectly included herself as part of the group she was attempting to defend during her last podcast?; or

2. That she fucked up by grabbing that carrot EA dangled in front of her?

I know precisely jack and shit about Machinima aside from the fact that they release some video content that interests me, but (and no offense intended towards Andrea at all here), I never...for one fucking second...considered Andrea as anything more than a talking head who hosted video content about games and hopped on WC to chew the fat with Garnett and company from time to time.

Her 'voice' was, in no way, authoritative to me when it comes to games, and I never considered her ethics in performing her responsibilities, because I never perceived her as being part of that group.

Interesting to read that other people considered her position differently. I just think she fucked up on that last podcast by making comments that suggested she was part of it.
Click to expand...

It's disenginous to have someone on a podcast like WC without disclosing exactly what their relationship with the publisher of a particular game is. Every time, from my experience, a gaming pod cast has had people from the developer or publisher side on a show it's stated pretty explicitly and it is part of what pushes the narrative for that particular show. They talk about the game from thay angle, rather than asking the person "so how much do you like playing your own game?" From what I understand, this was not the case with Andrea and her NFS impressions on the last WC. If I want impressions from a PR person I will read a press release.
 
G

Gomu Gomu

Member
Opiate said:
Yes, I think anyone who believes they're above influence needs to re-examine themselves or take a cognitive psychology course. Or a neuroscience class.

Influence and impression go so far beyond facile things like "I was asked to give this game 5 stars by the PR guy but I gave it 3 instead, so therefore I am impartial." The effects that others can have on you can be so much more subtle and immeasurable.

It's a classic case of "I don't see it, therefore it doesn't exist" syndrome. A huge portion of our decision making process is under the surface not just to others, but to our own consciousness. We work hide inside our own heads to convince ourselves that we are independent, clear thinking individualists because it's more pleasing to us, but virtually all science I've seen on the topic does not suggest it's actually true. For any of us.
Click to expand...
Problem is most people think what you're saying is "conspiracy theory", and dismiss it completely.
At least there are a number of confirmed cases where writers decided to take an honest look at their job and relationships and have said that they are looking into the way things work, and would want to change.

RedNumberFive said:
I have and it seems pretty consistent with what I wrote.
Click to expand...

Unlike most writers on big sites, Jeff and the gang have been extremely open with their PR connections, labeling them as "Friends of the site" and constantly reminding people who they work with. They are and have always been transparent about their job, relationships and the impact these have on their job. All this gives the reader a context to judge the material written by the writers.

Now look at other writers for big websites. Do we know anything about their connections? Do we know their friends in the industry? Do we know the level of influance these friends and connections have to their work? No, we don't. And that's a problem, considering these writers can influence an audience much bigger than GB's.

Now to another thing, Jeff has stated that he does constantly think about this subject and he "stresses over this stuff", which is a lot more than other writers are doing, unfortunately.

bigdaddygamebot said:
I didn't realize he was in the thread.

Username?
Click to expand...

The OP has the list of his posts.
 
K

krae_man

Member
Flavius said:
Serious question: Which was the foul committed by Andrea?

1. That she incorrectly included herself as part of the group she was attempting to defend during her last podcast?; or

2. That she fucked up by grabbing that carrot EA dangled in front of her?

I know precisely jack and shit about Machinima aside from the fact that they release some video content that interests me, but (and no offense intended towards Andrea at all here), I never...for one fucking second...considered Andrea as anything more than a talking head who hosted video content about games and hopped on WC to chew the fat with Garnett and company from time to time.

Her 'voice' was, in no way, authoritative to me when it comes to games, and I never considered her ethics in performing her responsibilities, because I never perceived her as being part of that group.

Interesting to read that other people considered her position differently. I just think she fucked up on that last podcast by making comments that suggested she was part of it.
Click to expand...

Even before this happened several people in the WC threads "Caught" her trying to pass off reading PR bullet points as her own impressions/opinions of a game.
 
Quote

Quote

Member
Gomu Gomu said:
The OP has the list of his posts.
Click to expand...
OP is a little behind. I don't think they've been to GAF since Jeff posted. Even the guy a couple pages back who is helping keep it up to date is missing the new Jeff stuff, though on the "release notes" it said it was added and has 5 links, but I don't see them.
 
R

RedNumberFive

Banned
Gomu Gomu said:
Unlike most writers on big sites, Jeff and the gang have been extremely open with their PR connections, labeling them as "Friends of the site" and constantly reminding people who they work with. They are and have always been transparent about their job, relationships and the impact these have on their job. All this gives the reader a context to judge the material written by the writers.

Now look at other writers for big websites. Do we know anything about their connections? Do we know their friends in the industry? Do we know the level of influance these friends and connections have to their work? No, we don't. And that's a problem, considering these writers can influence an audience much bigger than GB's.

Now to another thing, Jeff has stated that he does constantly think about this subject and he "stresses over this stuff", which is a lot more than other writers are doing, unfortunately.
Click to expand...

I get it, you like the Giant Bomb guys. I do too, but if we're going to hold game journalists accountable, we can't exclude the GB crew. They has been just as culpable of receiving trips, freebies, etc. Just because they talk about it, doesn't make them immune to criticism.
 
C

Coen

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
It's disenginous to have someone on a podcast like WC without disclosing exactly what their relationship with the publisher of a particular game is. Every time, from my experience, a gaming pod cast has had people from the developer or publisher side on a show it's stated pretty explicitly and it is part of what pushes the narrative for that particular show. They talk about the game from thay angle, rather than asking the person "so how much do you like playing your own game?" From what I understand, this was not the case with Andrea and her NFS impressions on the last WC. If I want impressions from a PR person I will read a press release.
Click to expand...

You're right. And it's particularly peculiar because Weekend Confirmed has refrained from talking about games the crew was actively involved with in the past. I recall them refraining from judging Ratchet & Clank: All 4 One because Stevenson was on, as well as Cannata and Lee not judging one of the Pixel Junk games because of their voice work.
 
Lactose_Intolerant

Lactose_Intolerant

Member
Quote said:
OP is a little behind. I don't think they've been to GAF since Jeff posted. Even the guy a couple pages back who is helping keep it up to date is missing the new Jeff stuff, even though it one of the "release notes" it said it was added.
Click to expand...

We should give these people some swag to show how much we appreciate their great work on spreading the news.
 
B

bigdaddygamebot

Member
chickdigger802 said:
Seriously gerstmann is like the first press guy in this thread that admits that he stresses over this stuff, while everyone else is smug and loling around.

That alone is worth something.
Click to expand...


He "gets it".

I love that kid.


Also...Andrea Rene needs to fucking go and everyone else like her that doesn't "get it". Really disappointed in Garnett about this.


RedNumberFive said:
I get it, you like the Giant Bomb guys. I do too, but if we're going to hold game journalists accountable, we can't exclude the GB crew. They has been just as culpable of receiving trips, freebies, etc. Just because they talk about it, doesn't make them immune to criticism.
Click to expand...



Considering the alternative...the fact that Jeff is willing to discuss it openly and not calling us entitled, haters or that we're jealous shows me enough at this time.

They're actually acknowledging it's fucked up.

While there's others, Lauren Wainwright and Andrea Rene come to mind; that are either wildly ignorant or deliberately so.
 
A

Agkel

Member
Opiate said:
Yes, I think anyone who believes they're above influence needs to re-examine themselves or take a cognitive psychology course. Or a neuroscience class.

Influence and impression go so far beyond facile things like "I was asked to give this game 5 stars by the PR guy but I gave it 3 instead, so therefore I am impartial." The effects that others can have on you can be so much more subtle and immeasurable.

It's a classic case of "I don't see it, therefore it doesn't exist" syndrome. A huge portion of our decision making process is under the surface not just to others, but to our own consciousness. We work hide inside our own heads to convince ourselves that we are independent, clear thinking individualists because it's more pleasing to us, but virtually all science I've seen on the topic does not suggest it's actually true. For any of us.
Click to expand...

.

Any reaction from the gaming media members, outside of admitting they are part of the problem (ie they understand what florence's intial argument is and accept they are an extention to PR and openly admit it, or they show signs of introspection) is bullshit.

If you are dismissive of what the problem is, your fans will be dismissive of your opinion and as stated above, we are all influenced on a subconscious level. There's a reason BILLIONS of dollars are spent on marketing and PR across the world and Millions directed at the Press(gaming or otherwise). Think about it, why would BILLIONS be spent if it only worked to influenced the morally / ethically corrupt people.
 
ElRenoRaven

ElRenoRaven

Member
PaulLFC said:
Good article. The ending paragraphs were particularly interesting:
Click to expand...

See now that I like. It's nice to see someone out there go you know they're right. We need to be better then this. They're right too if some reviews are later then people will understand. I'd rather a late honest review then an early pr guided review done at some event any damn day of the week.
 
O

Opiate

Member
A great example of the subtle ways the industry can be manipulated are in the selection process for journalists.

Consider, for example, two prospective gaming journalists, one of whom has a preference for mechanical complexity -- perhaps highly elaborate strategy games a la tabletop gaming -- and another who likes to blow stuff up a la most AAA games this generation.

It is likely that the guy who naturally prefers tabletop gaming is going to give higher scores to games like Hearts of Iron III, while the guy who loves the big titles from the current big Western publishers is likely to give better scores to games like Call of Duty or Gears of War or Killzone (and perhaps he does not review HoI at all).

I believe that second prospective journalist who is really in to AAA "blockbuster" gaming is much more likely to get and maintain a job in the gaming journalism industry. In other words, I think in some cases manipulation of journalists is unnecessary -- the journalists are essentially pre-selected because of their predilection for what the AAA Publishers are already doing. It's a lot easier to get an endless stream of 8.0s and 9.5s from people who have already bought in to the system before they're even given the job.
 
D

Dennis

Banned
Floex said:
The first 'news' article on Polygon right now



Journalism
Click to expand...

That sure doesn't look like a PR copypaste filler article.....

PR problem: How do we get our press release in front of the eyeballs of gamers?

Solution: Kotaku, Joystiq, Polygon etc.
 
I

I H8 Memes

Member
CrunchinJelly said:
Eurogamer have finally put up an Editor's column: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-30-editors-blog-lost-humanity-18-aftermath
Click to expand...



The first is that a lot of people want to know more about why I made the changes and issued an apology. The answer is that Lauren Wainwright threatened us with legal action and made it clear she would not back down
Click to expand...

There are bigger issues at play here, but I can say with 100% conviction that I will never buy another game from any company that employs Ms. Wainwright in any capacity.
 
J

jschreier

Member
Opiate said:
A great example of the subtle ways the industry can be manipulated are in the selection process for journalists.

Consider, for example, two prospective gaming journalists, one of whom has a preference for mechanical complexity -- perhaps highly elaborate strategy games a la tabletop gaming -- and another who likes to blow stuff up a la most AAA games this generation.

It is likely that the guy who naturally prefers tabletop gaming is going to give higher scores to games like Hearts of Iron III, while the guy who loves the big titles from the current big Western publishers is likely to give better scores to games like Call of Duty or Gears of War or Killzone (and perhaps does not review HoI at all).

I believe that second prospective journalist who is really in to AAA "blockbuster" gaming is much more likely to get and maintain a job in the gaming journalism industry. In other words, I think in some cases manipulation of journalists is unnecessary -- the journalists are essentially pre-selected because of their predilection for what the AAA Publishers are already doing.
Click to expand...

I have no interest in shooters. I play mostly JRPGs. Just saying. ;)
 
G

grimshawish

Banned
JABEE said:
That's a photoshop. There's no way that is real.
Click to expand...

http://www.polygon.com/
Real as fuck.

Microsoft and Pizza Hut branches across the United Kingdom have joined forces to launch a Halo 4 Legendary Prizes competition, offering the opportunity to win limited edition Halo 4-themed prizes.

Contestants who enter on the contest's official website stand the chance of winning a limited edition Halo 4-themed Xbox 360, a copy of Halo 4, and a Halo 4-themed headset. All those who enter will also receive a free code for a Halo 4 Xbox 360 avatar outfit.

Entrants must reside in the U.K. and be 16 years of age or over. The competition ends Dec. 30, while Halo 4 releases on Xbox 360 on Nov. 6.
Click to expand...

This is actually a PR set. Nothing more. Doesn't sound like the avatar outfit is exclusive either.
What the actual fuck.
 
F

FINALBOSS

Banned
Uh, has anyone seen this? I'm guessing it's some sort of satire but lol


Square Enix Admits Creating Lauren Wainwright Persona to Promote Tomb Raider



In a shocking turn of events, Square Enix has announced that Lauren Wainwright, a supposed video game journalist, is fictional and that her love of everything Square Enix was just a marketing ploy.




Recently, Eurogamer posted an article that condemned sponsorship in video game journalism and had briefly mentioned Wainwright. The article was eventually edited to remove her mention in the article. It sparked a firestorm that caused many to look for more information about Wainwright. A notable detail that was discovered is that she was once employed by Square Enix and has written extremely positive reviews about their games.

Today, a Square Enix representative has publicly admitted that Wainwright is not real and was created to promote Square Enix games. Robert Peeler, Square Enix community manager, responded to a series of posts on its forums asking about the employment of Wainwright.

“I don’t think I have permission to post this, but I will do so anyway. Lauren is not a real person and is actually a character created by Square Enix’s marketing department. I deeply apologize for anyone who was swayed by her commentary or reviews.”

Many were in disbelief by this revelation, but Peeler continued to explain, “In the Eurogamer article, they mention she tweeted the following: ‘Urm… Trion were giving away PS3s to journalists at the GMAs. Not sure why that’s a bad thing?’. This was marketing’s way of convincing people that this was not bribery, but just something innocuous. In the marketing circles of many video game companies, they watch each other’s backs.”

“Her love of everything Tomb Raider, as evidenced by her Twitter account, was the real reason she was created,” Peeler explains, “Square Enix knew that Tomb Raider was dead and had to find a way to promote hype for the series again. Her love of Tomb Raider is not genuine and the actress who played her was coached on what to do say when going out to conventions and other public events.”

At this point, the thread was deleted by Square Enix and they have not officially commented on the situation. Robert Florence, the author behind the original Eurogamer article, has said on Twitter, “I knew it! Fuck Square. They haven’t made a good game since they merged.”
Click to expand...
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Floex said:
The first 'news' article on Polygon right now



Journalism
Click to expand...
Huh, coincidentally somebody asked that very same writer (also based in the UK) if they were going to cover the Florence story. Her reply:

Emily Gera said:
Hey Joe,

The short answer is no. The reason is partly down to not having a system for opinion pieces yet (although it's coming) and - in my case - a slight feeling of discomfort over using one games website to offer commentary about another, and commentary about individual journalists. You're right to think of it as an interesting case study, but we'll leave it for the forums to dissect.
Click to expand...
Link
 
Clear

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Question: If you're a fan of a particular game series or genre, would you rather it be reviewed by someone who is also a know fan, or somebody who has an established dislike of games of that type?

Assuming all else is equal, who is going to give you a report most relevant to your interests and expectations?
 
P

PaulLFC

Member
Gowans said:
Wow it's in the Guardian (fantastic paper).

Link?
Click to expand...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2012/oct/30/video-game-journalism


I find it interesting that sites like GAF, GameTrailers and wosland are rehosting the original, unedited version of the article and Wainwright hasn't threatened to sue them. To me that says that the original threat was made on the strength of what libel threats can do, rather than any genuine belief that an actual libel case would be successful.

It makes me angry every time I read about it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Rumor: Switch 2 Reportedly Delayed to 2025
Rumor Hardware 6 7 8 9 10
480
29K
Robb replied
Dragon's Dogma 2 only had 1/4 of the people credited for working on the game compared to the last few titles by Capcom
2
56
3K
KyoZz replied
  • Poll
Rate The Game Awards 2023
News 2 3
107
5K
Shakka43 replied
EuroGamer's Top 10 Games of 2021
2
84
5K
FunkMiller replied
Phil Spencer interview - Says that their intent is for all Xbox games, including Call of Duty, to be available on Xbox Game Pass Day One
2 3
102
6K
Kenneth Haight replied
Top Bottom