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[Devolution]

That was more a grip I have with this kind of thing. Like I said, I'm a canon and fact guy. Thinking that somewhere I may have an argument about somebody who think that Link is a girl, or that the sun turns around earth, which already happened, is kind of bad for me. Not a people person for that.

Do you have an aneurysm when something gets retconned or a timeline changes?

 

[Aquamarine]

Find me a Feminist group that work so that Males have the same rights as female when it comes to childs.
Or a Feminist group that push for more days of Parental for the male when a kid is born.
Or a Feminist group that push for mens to get jobs in "Women" jobs like Waitress, Nurses or Boarding agents?
Feminist groups do not prone equality as they only push on one side. And the word Feminist also prevent them to ever push on the other side.

Oh wow. This deserves no further comment. It speaks for itself.

To be honest I find this more close minded then if he just left it how the game was made. I just feel that pushing the identity that Link is a girl onto his daughter feels very pretentious and closed minded that she can't play a game with male protagonists and not aspire to be a hero.

She can aspire to be a hero with male protagonists. But what about female protagonists? It's not like there's much to choose from that would be appropriate for a three year old girl.

It's either Barbie, a badass, or walking fanservice.

 

[Rubius]

Out of curiosity, what types of activism have you done to push these issues? Since they're so important to you.

I'm a introvert white guy with no social skills, as this thread showcase, who lived in a small village far from any big city.
I did not push for any of those or any cause either. I hate being around people most of the time.

 

[Pau]

Sex was never an issue for me. I'm me. You can call me, He, She or It, I dont really care. It does not diminish me to play a female in a video game, so I do not see why it diminish a girl to play a man.

Sex has probably never been an issue for you because you're included in almost any time of media you care to consume. The same is not true for women. So yes, that makes it a big issue for us. And it's only diminishing because girls are almost always given no alternative. This discussion wouldn't be taking place if there was a healthy amount of alternatives of games with female protagonists. The issue here is that there isn't, especially not for young girls.

To be honest I find this more close minded then if he just left it how the game was made. I just feel that pushing the identity that Link is a girl onto his daughter feels very pretentious and closed minded that she can't play a game with male protagonists and not aspire to be a hero.

Girls shouldn't have to settle for never seeing their gender as the hero and always having to play as a boy if they want to be the hero. No one is saying that they should never play a game with a male protagonist.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

It's either Barbie, a badass, or a fan service trap.

Wah...

 

[Jackson]

The common logic with commercial game development is as follows...

The majority of male gamers will play male protagonists
The majority of female gamers will play male protagonists
The majority of male gamers will not play female protagonists
The majority of female gamers will play female protagonists

Thus... male protagonists almost always are made.

And the majority of female protagonists that do exist (like Samus, Bayonetta and Lara Croft) are still aimed at the male audience. Zero Suit Samus is clearly aimed at males, and power suit Samus could easily be a guy, in fact you didn't know she was a woman until the first game ended.

From what I see it's a lot less about the publishers being sexist and more about the audience not wanting to play as women.

 

[Aquamarine]

Wah...

Gah you beat my edit.

 

[stupei]

No, I did not say inclusiveness for women is militant. But I don't think Zelda needs to change to be inclusive for women. It's already got a ton of positive female characters. You don't have to make Link a girl in order to make it appealing to girls.

At the same time, I agree that having a protagonist that looks or sounds like you does make a difference. I just don't want people to take an iconic character who is dear to me and change him to be more palatable to another group of people. Find or make your own character and let that character be dear to you.

The socio-political shit is thinking that it's cool and desirable to work on socially engineering a toddler into fighting academic battles about gender equality before they can fucking read. There is a group who descends on any discussion of gender and lobs the words sexist and misogynist like bombs to shut down any kind of discussion and tar the people they're fighting with. The kind of people who were become such a bloc of thought police that Evilore had to step in a few weeks back and tell them to tone it down. A lot of them are in attendance here. That's the kind of "socio-political shit" I mean. Every goddamn discussion with people like that is a no-holds-barred, zero sum, exhausting shit fest. Like this has become. Is that clear enough?

Women should be included in gaming. I brought my wife and sister in gaming because I enjoy the hobby so much that I wanted to share it with them. (Tried it with my mom and dad, too. But that didn't stick.) They don't always like the same stuff as me but we have gaming in common and it's a way to bond. Much like the father in the original post is trying to do with his daughter.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with this guy hacking the hex code to say milady instead of my lad. I think it's silly, but I'm not railing against that. My problem is more with the way any discussion of gender is always the exact same histrionic, hateful garbage within ten pages.

I guess my confusion is that you say what upsets you most is the level of discourse, but you opened by calling other people militants and telling them that they're doing it wrong. But at the same time, you left it entirely open to interpretation who you were referring to. If you think the thread is nothing but nastiness and histrionics, what precisely was that achieving?

It just seems like a lot of your contributions to the thread are to disagree with its tone rather than the points being made, but you do it with rather incendiary language that feels intended to provoke. Like I said, you're implying that other people are extremists who use buzz words to end productive dialogue, but you do so with words like "militant" and "socio-political shit" and by mocking the concepts of privilege and heteronormativity. Those are academic concepts. Implying that anyone who refers to them is somehow a militant extremist disinterested in genuine conversation seems like a pretty effective way to end any real discussion. If that's a real concern, you might want to reconsider your approach to it.

Specifically in regards to "engineering a toddler into fighting academic battles," I'm not sure what that refers to. A father and daughter bonding together over a shared interest is hardly academic for the two of them. Her gender is a reality, not a theoretical, and her experience and feelings about it and how she sees it reflected in the world around her are obviously very real. Here in a message board discussion composed primarily of men, the idea might seem abstract and politicized, but I doubt that's the case for them. Do you really think he had some ulterior motives in doing this for his daughter? If so, what are you basing that on?

Or does this not actually have anything to do with the specific father and child referred to in the article and I'm missing something here?

 

[Devolution]

The common logic with commercial game development is as follows...

The majority of male gamers will play male protagonists
The majority of female gamers will play male protagonists
The majority of male gamers will not play female protagonists
The majority of female gamers will play female protagonists

Thus... male protagonists almost always are made.

And the majority of female protagonists that do exist (like Samus, Bayonetta and Lara Croft) are still aimed at the male audience. Zero Suit Samus is clearly aimed at males, and power suit Samus could easily be a guy, in fact you didn't knot it was a woman until the first game ended.

From what I see it's a lot less about the publishers being sexist and more about the audience not wanting to play as women.

Depends on game. I played as males in MMOs to avoid harassment.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

Gah you beat my edit.

I really didn't know where that 'handsome trap' came from.

 

[Chuck]

Did he have to blog about it and send the blog off to websites so they would publish his story and bring more traffic to his blog? Couldn't he have just done the nice thing to do the nice thing?

This has probably been brought up. I'm just sayin'...

 

[faceless007]

I'm a introvert white guy with no social skills, as this thread showcase, who lived in a small village far from any big city.
I did not push for any of those or any cause either. I hate being around people most of the time.

But you expect feminists to carry the burden of not only the issues that impact them directly and negatively but the ones you're afraid will impact you as well? That seems a little unfair.

 

[Jackson]

Depends on game. I played as males in MMOs to avoid harassment.

MMOs, by their nature, do not have clearly defined protagonists. You play as thief/jedi/warrior/mage #1214543.

 

[CambriaRising]

Depends on game. I played as males in MMOs to avoid harassment.

I don't know that you needed to. I play as a female in every MMO and have never gotten harassed. More group invites, or trade requests? Maybe, I don't know that that had anything to do with my avatar's gender.

 

[Devolution]

MMOs, by their nature, do not have clearly defined protagonists. You play as thief/jedi/warrior/mage #1214543.

Then I would say your post is based in circular logic. If all the female protagonists are quite crappy or in mediocre games then playing as a male is not really preferred as a singular issue.

 

[Drugula's Wrath XXX]

He's an idiot for thinking his daughter can't look up to Link if he wasn't a she, girl or guy she should be able to look up to him regardless.

You guys are idiots for getting uppity over a fucking mod, who cares? If Nintendo made a Zelda game with a female Link would you be so up in arms? If not then shut the fuck up.

 

[Rubius]

But you expect feminists to carry the burden of not only the issues that impact them directly and negatively but the ones you're afraid will impact you as well? That seems a little unfair.

I do not expect a lot from groups. I will support them if I happen to go near them, but I will not participate as they do not really affect me.

 

[Aquamarine]

I don't know that you needed to. I play as a female in every MMO and have never gotten harassed. More group invites, or trade requests? Maybe, I don't know that that had anything to do with my avatar's gender.

If you have a feminine name + avatar it definitely makes it a lot worse...at least it did for me. I received countless harassment when I tried it. Switched over to a male protagonist and never looked back.

Depends on game. I played as males in MMOs to avoid harassment.

Female character models are frequently sexualized in MMORPGs to pander to the fanservice crowd.

 

[Platy]

Nice then. And I do know that its not all Feminist groups who are doing that, but the word Feminist means Women. It does not means Equal.
"First recorded in English 1894, from French féministe (1872). Ultimately from Latin fēminīnus, from fēmina (“woman&#8221"
The movement is not for mens.

It came to my notion by looking at your GAF profile that you are from Quebec.

Quebec wants to separate itself from Canada in a movement known as Quebec Nationalism

Nationalism means by your definition

1250&#8211;1300; Middle English < Latin n&#257;ti&#333;n- (stem of n&#257;ti&#333; ) birth, tribe, equivalent to n&#257;t ( us ) (past participle of n&#257;sc&#299; to be born) + -i&#333;n- -ion

Wich obviously means that the Quebec Nationalism is a movement to increase the birth rate on Quebec

But you can say it is also a Separatist Movement. wich obviously comes from the worsd separation, wich has this origin

1375&#8211;1425; late Middle English < Latin s&#275;par&#257;ti&#333;n- (stem of s&#275;par&#257;ti&#333; ), equivalent to s&#275;par&#257;t ( us ) separate + -i&#333;n- -ion

OH MY ! Separation means separation !
Wich, unless you have that powerfull Bugs Bunny saw that he used on California, I think those people will have problems to literaly separate Quebec from the rest of Canada

 

[CambriaRising]

If you have a feminine name + avatar it definitely makes it a lot worse...at least it did for me. I received countless harassment when I tried it. Switched over to a male protagonist and never looked back.

I don't know. I never had an issue.

 

[Jackson]

Then I would say your post is based in circular logic. If all the female protagonists are quite crappy or in mediocre games then playing as a male is not really preferred as a singular issue.

I'm not saying they are crappy. I'm saying those protagonists are created for a male audience. Zero Suit Samus is aimed at men, Lara Croft is aimed at men. And the rest of the main characters in the vast majority of mainstream games are already male.

Also, as I just said, an MMO has no protagonist. But you said, as a female, that you rolled a male character. Which is in line with my initial post that females have no problems playing male characters. But the vast majority of men don't roll female characters.

I'm not arguing here, I'm just explaining the commercial mindset behind why things are the way they are when it comes to protagonists.

 

[Kazerei]

Find me a Feminist group that work so that Males have the same rights as female when it comes to childs.
Or a Feminist group that push for more days of Parental for the male when a kid is born.
Or a Feminist group that push for mens to get jobs in "Women" jobs like Waitress, Nurses or Boarding agents?
Feminist groups do not prone equality as they only push on one side. And the word Feminist also prevent them to ever push on the other side.

You'll find that feminists groups support all of these ideas. Let me expand on the issue of paternity leave, 'cause I know that issue made some real progress in the U.K. It's not completely equal yet, but feminist groups have indeed fought to extend both maternity and paternity leave.

http://www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=451
http://www.maternityaction.org.uk/workingparents.html

Edit: And over the past decades, feminists have fought to encourage men in nursing. Here's some more stuff you can read.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=gbWy8qIHbI8C
http://folk.uio.no/olegmo/Men in Nursing/Evans J 2004.pdf

More broadly, you can look up "third wave feminism" as Platy mentioned.

I think it's time to move past the idea of evil feminists trying to oppress men and deal with reality.

Nice then. And I do know that its not all Feminist groups who are doing that, but the word Feminist means Women. It does not means Equal.
"First recorded in English 1894, from French féministe (1872). Ultimately from Latin f&#275;min&#299;nus, from f&#275;mina (&#8220;woman&#8221"
The movement is not for mens.

Feminism has greatly evolved to encompass not only women's issues, but men's issues as well, as the goal is gender equality.

 

[CorvoSol]

Do you have an aneurysm when something gets retconned or a timeline changes?

I do. Three Timelines had me comatose for a month.


Anyway, I can't believe this is such a heated discussion. The guy edited a game for his daughter. Whatever. It's harmless. Well, I mean, I don't think I'd do it, but I can't see how or why this effects any of the rest of us.

He's playing a video game with his daughter and changed some aspects of the story for her. Oh no!

 

[stupei]

What experience are you talking about?

This:

Where the hell are you getting this from? In my first Zelda game I named the character after myself and pretended that I was the hero. This guy just wanted to give the same opportunity to his daughter, and took some additional steps to accommodate that.

And also:

The problem amounts to this: The game pops up and asks Dad and Maya what to name Link. Dad asks Maya what they should call their character, since they can pick any name they want. Maya says, "Maya, like me!"

Does Dad then:

A.) Use the name Maya, and just keep calling Maya a "he", leading to "But Daddy, Maya's a girl's name!"

B.) Tell Maya, "We can't do that sweetie, this is a game about a boy." thereby diminishing (however slightly) her sense of engagement with the game.

C.) Say "Okay", name the character Maya, and just pretend the androgynous self-insert character voiced (IIRC) by a female is, in fact, a female, doing roughly 0 damage to the story of Wind Waker?

The game encourages a very specific, "You too can be the hero!" fantasy, but at the time it wasn't taken into account that a female gamer might want to be one too.

Whether or not that's how you specifically chose to play the game, naming the hero after yourself was very clearly intended to be a (popular) option. But one only available for men.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Quoting for this page.

Edit: It kind of reminds me of the granddad reading the story to Fred Savage in The Princess Bride. The story the kid hears is tailored to what he likes, parts are omitted that he finds boring ("the kissing stuff"), but in the end they have a good bonding experience. Fictional Granddad totally altered Fictional Morganstern's story, and probably could have picked a better Fictional Story to read to a sick kid that would have required no alteration, or written his own, but the end result is something special and sweet.

 

[CorvoSol]

This whole thing is less harmful than Fionna and Cake in Adventure Time.

 

[Rubius]

It came to my notion by looking at your GAF profile that you are from Quebec.

Quebec wants to separate itself from Canada in a movement known as Quebec Nationalism

In fact right now, it seems that its canada who want to separate himself from Quebec, or at least have the middle provinces be a different country.

 

[brian!]

Like i get where Rubius is coming from and how it's easy to derive female-centrality from feminism. and he(?) is also stating that he acknowledges that feminism is not completely about that notion, that's just what he feels like the mood of it is at this point in time (debatable)

and like it's hard to think of the "female protagonist" as not secondary to an overarching male protagonist

but talking about switching words in Zelda, going against it's initial programming, that is an action that is directly addressing a real issue in video games in a very personal and meaningful way, I really really think it's hard to argue against that

any bringing up of "example of the female in videogame"...you're gonna have a problem. you're gonna have a female in male world, developed by male tastes, etc. what this dad does in literally addressing the problem physically is really really important! it's not something that changes the male-natured industry, it's about navigating around it! it makes me really happy :O

 

[Aquamarine]

Like i get where Rubius is coming from and how it's easy to derive female-centrality from feminism. and he(?) is also stating that he acknowledges that feminism is not completely about that notion, that's just what he feels like the mood of it is at this point in time (debatable)

and like it's hard to think of the "female protagonist" as not secondary to an overarching male protagonist

but talking about switching words in Zelda, going against it's initial programming, that is an action that is directly addressing a real issue in video games in a very personal and meaningful way, I really really think it's hard to argue against that

any bringing up of "example of the female in videogame"...you're gonna have a problem. you're gonna have a female in male world, developed by male tastes, etc. what this dad does in literally addressing the problem physically is really really important! it's not something that changes the male-natured industry, it's about navigating around it! it makes me really happy :O

It's quite bold, promoting androgyny to a young, impressionable girl. Usually most parents would be content letting their daughter wallow in countless Barbie products that instruct young girls "how to go shopping, take care of the home, cook, etc."

Transcending traditional gender roles is definitely an alternative way to bring up a young girl...and through video games, especially.

You're right. Video games is a male-dominated industry. Nintendo has always been good about this, letting people impress their own likeness onto the characters. This is just taking that impression one step further.

 

[Platy]

In fact right now, it seems that its canada who want to separate himself from Quebec, or at least have the middle provinces be a different country.

It gets even better when you think about Nintendism, specialy because Nintendo has lots of possible explanations

So it can mean a movement of people who is in favor of human beings who :

1) Leave luck to religion
2) Leave luck to the clouds
3) Are part of a Hanafuda Company
4) Leave one's fortune in the hands of fate
5) Are part of a religion that happens to give Free Hanafuda

What ?
Are you saying that it means people who are Nintendo hardcore fans ? =O

Or gamers ... wich comes from game wich is

before 1000; Middle English gamen, Old English gaman; cognate with Old High German gaman glee

Wich means .... delightfull people ?
People who sing ?

 

[stupei]

I'm not saying they are crappy. I'm saying those protagonists are created for a male audience. Zero Suit Samus is aimed at men, Lara Croft is aimed at men. And the rest of the main characters in the vast majority of mainstream games are already male.

Also, as I just said, an MMO has no protagonist. But you said, as a female, that you rolled a male character. Which is in line with my initial post that females have no problems playing male characters. But the vast majority of men don't roll female characters.

I'm not arguing here, I'm just explaining the commercial mindset behind why things are the way they are when it comes to protagonists.

This is a self-perpetuating cycle.

The majority of media that anyone of either gender will engage with in their lifetime is presented from a male point of view. Therefor women, if they wish to engage with television, books, and film, will learn to experience the world through the eyes of male characters just as readily as female. Because the female perspective is less dominant, a man will never be required to engage with a female pov in order to have any media to experience at all. He will have options and alternatives that the woman will not.

It's not because of anything inherent to the male or female psyche that women are more readily accepting of protagonists of the opposite gender. It's because of the options available and exposure to difference.

Obviously video games are a business and a cycle is better than nothing, because at least it keeps moving, but it's not like Nintendo has done poorly by acknowledging the existence of female gamers.

When given the choice, I tend to pick a female character. I guess sometimes when it's something without real character like SSX or Diablo, I pick whoever I think looks the coolest, regardless of gender.

 

[Jackson]

Like i get where Rubius is coming from and how it's easy to derive female-centrality from feminism. and he(?) is also stating that he acknowledges that feminism is not completely about that notion, that's just what he feels like the mood of it is at this point in time (debatable)

and like it's hard to think of the "female protagonist" as not secondary to an overarching male protagonist

but talking about switching words in Zelda, going against it's initial programming, that is an action that is directly addressing a real issue in video games in a very personal and meaningful way, I really really think it's hard to argue against that

any bringing up of "example of the female in videogame"...you're gonna have a problem. you're gonna have a female in male world, developed by male tastes, etc. what this dad does in literally addressing the problem physically is really really important! it's not something that changes the male-natured industry, it's about navigating around it! it makes me really happy :O

From a commercial perspective it's not really an industry issue, it's an audience issue.

Simply put -- The average male gamer has a stronger aversion to playing as a female protagonist than a male protagonist. But the average female gamer has far less aversion playing as a male protagonist, even though they would prefer a female protagonist.

Strong aversions vs less aversion. This all equates to the bottom line. Sales. It's that simple.

Why do you think male Shepard is on the cover of the Mass Effect series?
Why do you think male Dovahkiin is the face of Skyrim?

You can create male or female characters yourself in these games, but marketing would rather show the male version.

I'm not saying it's the best way to go, but from a commercial perspective its what publishers think.

 

[brian!]

From a commercial perspective it's not really an industry issue, it's an audience issue.

Simply put -- The average male gamer has a stronger aversion to playing as a female protagonist than a male protagonist. But the average female gamer has far less aversion playing as a male protagonist, even though they would prefer a female protagonist.

Strong aversions vs less aversion. This all equates to the bottom line. Sales. It's that simple.

Why do you think male Shepard is on the cover of the Mass Effect series?
Why do you think male Dovahkiin is the face of Skyrim?

You can create male or female characters yourself in these games, but marketing would rather show the male version.

I'm not saying it's the best way to go, but from a commercial perspective its what publishers think.

yeah for sure, and maybe not even consciously. so it's really sad to think of certain magical experiences not being translated the way you want them to be.

but i mean in terms of culpability and position of power, it's probably simplistic to think of things as a product of the consumer or to take away the active role the industry and developers play in framing specific instances that are meant to appeal to the market

 

[Jackson]

This is a self-perpetuating cycle.

The majority of media that anyone of either gender will engage with in their lifetime is presented from a male point of view. Therefor women, if they wish to engage with television, books, and film, will learn to experience the world through the eyes of male characters just as readily as female. Because the female perspective is less dominant, a man will never be required to engage with a female pov in order to have any media to experience at all. He will have options and alternatives that the woman will not.

It's not because of anything inherent to the male or female psyche that women are more readily accepting of protagonists of the opposite gender. It's because of the options available and exposure to difference.

Obviously video games are a business and a cycle is better than nothing, because at least it keeps moving, but it's not like Nintendo has done poorly by acknowledging the existence of female gamers.

When given the choice, I tend to pick a female character. I guess sometimes when it's something without real character like SSX or Diablo, I pick whoever I think looks the coolest, regardless of gender.

From an entrenched commercial standpoint... I'm not saying females are more accepting of male protagonists. I'm saying males are less accepting of female protagonists. Thus the default stance for a publicly traded company that wants to make as much money as possible is to remain male (or go create your own character) and market the male one (or the sexed up female one).

yeah for sure, and maybe not even consciously. so it's really sad to think of certain magical experiences not being translated the way you want them to be.

but i mean in terms of culpability and position of power, it's probably simplistic to think of things as a product of the consumer or to take away the active role the industry and developers play in framing specific instances that are meant to appeal to the market

That's where indie games come in! They don't care about money.

 

[brian!]

yeah indie games are probably responsible for some of my most visceral reactions

but you ever see that indie game developer documentary? they kind of seem like dicks

 

[Pau]

From a commercial perspective it's not really an industry issue, it's an audience issue.

If it's an audience issue, how would you suggest the audience show that their wants have changed (or just that a more diverse audience exists now) when companies don't put out the product?

 

[Jackson]

If it's an audience issue, how would you suggest the audience show that their wants have changed (or just that a more diverse audience exists now) when companies don't put out the product?

There's no suggestion. I'm just simply stating what is going on in the mind's of publishers.

The only way it will change is if male dominated protagonist and sexed up female protagonist games stop selling units. Then the industry will be forced to try something else.

And this trend is apparent in some other corners of the market where females have way higher % (mobile/social/casual). But it's starting to swing back to males with the whole new "mid-core" trend of Kabam and Kixeye like games.

yeah indie games are probably responsible for some of my most visceral reactions

but you ever see that indie game developer documentary? they kind of seem like dicks

Phil Fish is... an interesting fellow.

 

[Fahrenheit]

Lots of mad in this thread. What I don't get is why Links gender would make anyone else feel like a 2nd class citizen? If this was really getting at this little girl she's in for a rude awakening when she gets into the real world.


Guess we can file this in the everyone is a winner category...


Also I wounder if the same people that are praising this edit are the same people that said that no change to Mass Effect 3s ending was needed due to art never being wrong or some such thing.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

It's quite bold, promoting androgyny to a young, impressionable girl.

 

[Le Singe]

Sex has probably never been an issue for you because you're included in almost any time of media you care to consume. The same is not true for women. So yes, that makes it a big issue for us.
Girls shouldn't have to settle for never seeing their gender as the hero and always having to play as a boy if they want to be the hero. No one is saying that they should never play a game with a male protagonist.

This is a self-perpetuating cycle.

The majority of media that anyone of either gender will engage with in their lifetime is presented from a male point of view. Therefor women, if they wish to engage with television, books, and film, will learn to experience the world through the eyes of male characters just as readily as female. Because the female perspective is less dominant, a man will never be required to engage with a female pov in order to have any media to experience at all. He will have options and alternatives that the woman will not.

It's not because of anything inherent to the male or female psyche that women are more readily accepting of protagonists of the opposite gender. It's because of the options available and exposure to difference.

All great points.

There's no suggestion. I'm just simply stating what is going on in the mind's of publishers.

The only way it will change is if male dominated protagonist and sexed up female protagonist games stop selling units. Then the industry will be forced to try something else.

Wow, can you imagine a medium where this would also rule? Sorry - books with male protagonists just don't sell well so there's never going to be very many anymore. Cheers!

Doesn't anyone look upon that fact as it being a little limiting for video games? It's killing the variety of what could exist.

 

[Femmeworth]

The internet is never bereft of this lol.

The cycle begins anew.

 

[Parallax]

This:



And also:



The game encourages a very specific, "You too can be the hero!" fantasy, but at the time it wasn't taken into account that a female gamer might want to be one too.

Whether or not that's how you specifically chose to play the game, naming the hero after yourself was very clearly intended to be a (popular) option. But one only available for men.

So the enjoyment of a game diminishes if you can't visually immerse yourself in said character? Minority gamers don't seem to have that issue.

 

[Vermillion]

So the enjoyment of a game diminishes if you can't visually immerse yourself in said character? Minority gamers don't seem to have that issue.

^.

 

[WaterChroma]

So the enjoyment of a game diminishes if you can't visually immerse yourself in said character? Minority gamers don't seem to have that issue.

Majority of hero's in video games is male. Finding a GOOD female hero in a game is harder. If you were a girl who were to see only males be hero's, you might come to the conclusion that only males can be hero's. This might lead to you feeling a bit sad or wishing their were more female hero's. The same can apply to someone who is not white. When a character is similar to you biologically that you can play as, it can lead yto you feeling good that you don't have to be generic, steroid using, white guy 65332.

Hi Franklin Rossevelt

 

[SoulPlaya]

Link's a boy.

Get over it.

 

[etiolate]

yall realize that Nintendo got back into being #1 by targeting women and other ignored demographics with the Wii and DS

 

[Vermillion]

Majority of hero's in video games is male. Finding a GOOD female hero in a game is harder. If you were a girl who were to see only males be hero's, you might come to the conclusion that only males can be hero's. This might lead to you feeling a bit sad or wishing their were more female hero's. The same can apply to someone who is not white. When a character is similar to you biologically that you can play as, it can lead yto you feeling good that you don't have to be generic, steroid using, white guy 65332.

Parallax is black, for the record.

 

[vidcons]

So the enjoyment of a game diminishes if you can't visually immerse yourself in said character? Minority gamers don't seem to have that issue.

Sometimes I lay on the couch, close my eyes and pretend I'm white.

My favorite places to go during these daydreams are super markets. Walking through a Safeway, hand basket in tow, picking between which curry sauce will accompany my vegetable and tofu selections best.

Or maybe I'm at a car dealership and I hop in a Honda Civic for a test drive. We're about halfway through the tank, the salesman is beginning to sweat and I reach over and grab their hand, make eye contact, and shout "LET'S RUN THIS SUCKER EMPTY." The thrill.

When I struggle to close my eyes, I throw in my favorite videogame, Guitar Hero, and pick the heavy metal, black nail polished, rocker. I'd say the name but I really like to envision myself as them so it's better that I don't break immersion. Once I really get the jams going, fingers warmed up to probably 80 degree F, I'll swap discs to Bioshock. Then I just lean back into the couch and shoot the others. I just keep blasting these other people with my rocket flame hands and tommy gun. Sink a little further back, breathe deep, and disappear into The White Man.

 

[vidcons]

really, there is nothing better than being a white male and i'm glad that there is an entire media dedicated to letting me live out my fantasies.

 

[Kazerei]

So the enjoyment of a game diminishes if you can't visually immerse yourself in said character? Minority gamers don't seem to have that issue.

Look at the flipside of it. Would your enjoyment of a game increase if you're more immersed in the main character? Generally, yeah, I'd say that's true.