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THQ in default with Wells Fargo over $50 million credit facility

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Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Can I ask then, why are Activision, of all people, still in this market? o_O

Activision spends absolutely base bottom amounts of money on them and has better licenses for that.

That said, they're still notably lowering the number of licensed games they make since even at that cost level it doesn't work so great anymore.
 

jett

D-Member
Too bad, THQ was doing good quality-wise.

I wonder what will happen to Desilets and the work he has been doing in Montreal.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Because between Skylanders, Call of Duty and Blizzard, they have enough wonga that they can basically do whatever they want.

Yeah they can do whatever they want but it doesn't mean they should.

Activision spends absolutely base bottom amounts of money on them and has better licenses for that.

That said, they're still notably lowering the number of licensed games they make since even at that cost level it doesn't work so great anymore.

So why didn't THQ put in the same lack of effort?
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
So why didn't THQ put in the same lack of effort?

Well, at one point THQ was the third largest publisher in the world thanks almost entirely to this business, so it was pretty hard for them to let go.

They also were in a much worse shape in terms of cash when trying to make the AAA transition, so they thought these games would help them make the transition instead of ultimately hurting.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
They need to release a $29-$39 Darksiders Collection and a $39-$59 Saints Row Collection stat.

Their catalog sales are decent already, but I don't think they'll ever eclipse their burn rate at this point unless they kill 50-75% of their remaining projects.

At that point they've basically stopped existing though and the termination and severance fees alone would likely drown them.
 

Stahsky

A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
Relic should be top priority. Someone save them, burn the rest if need be!
 

Micerider

Member
It's done, nothing we can do, we'll just have to watch them burn slowly. Just crossing my fingers to have Company of Heoes 2 out before it happens. They won't get anyone's money anymore.

Common sense would have other big publishers buying Relic (Take Two? Ubisoft?) and Volition (Activision : mark my word, they are in dire needs of new cash cows and they don't have any successfull GTA-like in their portfolio).
 

yurinka

Member
I think the question now is who is going to buy THQ? EA? Activision? Ubisoft? Take Two? Disney? Microsoft as a substitute of Molyneyx/CliffyB/Bungie/Bizarre?

Because in this situation, they are going to sell very cheap. And they should have a lot of interesting IPs, and a lot of talented developers and studios that with some good management could work well.

Do you think that they are going to sell the entire company to the same people? Or are they going to sell separate studios or IPs to separate companies?
 
I think the question now is who is going to buy THQ? EA? Activision? Ubisoft? Microsoft as a substitute of Molyneyx/CliffyB/Bungie/Bizarre?

Because in this situation, they are going to sell very cheap. And they should have a lot of interesting IPs, and a lot of talented developers and studios that with some good management could work well.

Do you think that they are going to sell the entire company to the same people? Or are they going to sell separate studios or IPs to separate companies?
No one is going to buy them. Individual studios maybe, but the company itself is highly unlikely.
 

duckroll

Member
I think the question now is who is going to buy THQ? EA? Activision? Ubisoft? Take Two? Disney? Microsoft as a substitute of Molyneyx/CliffyB/Bungie/Bizarre?

Because in this situation, they are going to sell very cheap. And they should have a lot of interesting IPs, and a lot of talented developers and studios that with some good management could work well.

Do you think that they are going to sell the entire company to the same people? Or are they going to sell separate studios or IPs to separate companies?

I don't think it makes sense for anyone to buy "THQ" at all. They are burdened with a ton of debt and existing overhead, so no, it's not going to be sold for "very cheap" in that sense. Why would anyone want to buy into that sort of liability? It seems like a better idea to just wait for THQ to actually die, and then pick off the pieces which seem appealing when the bank starts auctioning off their assets.
 

Petrae

Member
I don't think it makes sense for anyone to buy "THQ" at all. They are burdened with a ton of debt and existing overhead, so no, it's not going to be sold for "very cheap" in that sense. Why would anyone want to buy into that sort of liability? It seems like a better idea to just wait for THQ to actually die, and then pick off the pieces which seem appealing when the bank starts auctioning off their assets.

I agree with this, which has been what I've been speculating for some time. Unless an outside company wants to assume the debt with the potential upside of strong releases upcoming and decent IPs, it makes more sense to let THQ die and loot the corpse, picking up IPs at a much cheaper price & without the added weight of debt to deal with.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I don't think it makes sense for anyone to buy "THQ" at all. They are burdened with a ton of debt and existing overhead, so no, it's not going to be sold for "very cheap" in that sense. Why would anyone want to buy into that sort of liability? It seems like a better idea to just wait for THQ to actually die, and then pick off the pieces which seem appealing when the bank starts auctioning off their assets.

I agree with this, which has been what I've been speculating for some time. Unless an outside company wants to assume the debt with the potential upside of strong releases upcoming and decent IPs, it makes more sense to let THQ die and loot the corpse, picking up IPs at a much cheaper price & without the added weight of debt to deal with.

THQ doesn't really have an amazing line-up in terms of selling power, which is why I imagine no one wants to bite (and honestly the reason they're going bankrupt in the first place).
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
How does their $100 mil debt split up if someone buys an individual studio?

Once someone is liquidated, the money publishers spend buying studios goes to the creditors.

Any debt that isn't paid off by this is simply a loss for the lenders because they were willing to give money to a risky company.
 
I'm playing Darksiders II at the moment, and when I booted it up it had an ad for the DLC, with a bit about the season pass, which has me thinking, what of people who did buy season passes for DLC where there is now no quarantee, or likelihood of future content?

Edit: Should probably point out, I didn't buy the season pass. This is just curiosity, not 'omg they took my money'.
 

DTKT

Member
I'm playing Darksiders II at the moment, and when I booted it up it had an ad for the DLC, with a bit about the season pass, which has me thinking, what of people who did buy season passes for DLC where there is now no quarantee, or likelihood of future content?

There is probably a disclaimer somewhere : "Buying this product is not a guarantee of content"
 

TheNatural

My Member!
THQ doesn't really have an amazing line-up in terms of selling power, which is why I imagine no one wants to bite (and honestly the reason they're going bankrupt in the first place).

Truth. Any strength they have is in a couple of studios like Volition and licenses they don't even own - just what they have the rights to (WWE and South Park.) They're basically a publisher that had no franchise of their own that defines them, and those are the types of companies that are, or have already went dead.
 
I don't think it makes sense for anyone to buy "THQ" at all. They are burdened with a ton of debt and existing overhead, so no, it's not going to be sold for "very cheap" in that sense. Why would anyone want to buy into that sort of liability? It seems like a better idea to just wait for THQ to actually die, and then pick off the pieces which seem appealing when the bank starts auctioning off their assets.

No one will buy THQ, it would be very bad business. They have one big IP worth buying, Saints Row, and a couple of medium sized ones, Homefront and Darksiders. Buying the company and taking on around $100m in debt, $50m of which is due makes no sense as none of these IPs is worth anywhere near that much money.

My guess is that Saints row will sell to EA for $20-25m and Darksiders to Square-Enix for $7-10m. I'm not sure anyone will buy the rest.
 

eyeless

Member
is there a scenario in which their catalogue will still be on steam and also they'll still go on sale

i've been holding out for saints row 3 complete for 7.50 and space marine for 5
 
No one will buy THQ, it would be very bad business. They have one big IP worth buying, Saints Row, and a couple of medium sized ones, Homefront and Darksiders. Buying the company and taking on around $100m in debt, $50m of which is due makes no sense as none of these IPs is worth anywhere near that much money.

My guess is that Saints row will sell to EA for $20-25m and Darksiders to Square-Enix for $7-10m. I'm not sure anyone will buy the rest.

Would that just be IP rights, or buying the studios responsible as well?
 

duckroll

Member
Would that just be IP rights, or buying the studios responsible as well?

I think buying Saints Row along with the studio makes sense. With Darksiders it's a harder call, since so much talent has left the studio and they're left with dudes who were working on a failed MMO for years.
 

legend166

Member
Everyone points to uDraw, I guess because it falls into the easy narrative of 'damn dirty casuals not buying games', but the failure of practically every single 'core' release over the last 3-4 years probably has more to do with it.
 
Company of Heroes, Darksiders, Red Faction and Metro are not super valuable IPs. COH is a PC centric game with no potential on consoles, Darksiders 2 bombed, Red Faction died with Armageddon both at retail and with critics and Metro barely sold 1.5 mil during it's lifetime.

Those are not high value franchises.

Actually what Nintendo need most are not superseller franchises but a continuous stream of good games even if they are not AAA
 
Actually what Nintendo need most are not superseller franchises but a continuous stream of good games even if they are not AAA

Nintendo will not buy THQ. THQ do not fit to Nintendo's business profile at all. THQ's best selling franchise, Saints Row, is diametrically opposed to Nintendo's kid friendly image and most of the other games are aimed at mature gamers. Only uDraw was aimed at Nintendo's consumer base and there is nothing stopping Nintendo from buying the uDraw IP and porting it to the Wii U and 3DS, though I think Draw Something has pretty much cornered the gaming via drawing market.
 
is there a scenario in which their catalogue will still be on steam and also they'll still go on sale

i've been holding out for saints row 3 complete for 7.50 and space marine for 5

Catalogue will probably still be on Steam, if the continued presence of the STALKER games and Kingdoms of Amalur are any indication. That said, there is a definite risk of them opting out of any future sales: Amalur will be full price until the day it get removed, yet STALKER got discounted recently. Who knows?

Nintendo will not buy THQ. THQ do not fit to Nintendo's business profile at all. THQ's best selling franchise, Saints Row, is diametrically opposed to Nintendo's kid friendly image and most of the other games are aimed at mature gamers. Only uDraw was aimed at Nintendo's consumer base and there is nothing stopping Nintendo from buying the uDraw IP and porting it to the Wii U and 3DS, though I think Draw Something has pretty much cornered the gaming via drawing market.

Yeah, and the WiiU Gamepad makes the uDraw hardware kinda academic. I can't see Nintendo buying the uDraw IP, considering they can just port Flipnote Studio to the Wii U and more or less get the same result.
 

Eusis

Member
Nintendo will not buy THQ. THQ do not fit to Nintendo's business profile at all. THQ's best selling franchise, Saints Row, is diametrically opposed to Nintendo's kid friendly image and most of the other games are aimed at mature gamers. Only uDraw was aimed at Nintendo's consumer base and there is nothing stopping Nintendo from buying the uDraw IP and porting it to the Wii U and 3DS, though I think Draw Something has pretty much cornered the gaming via drawing market.
Nintendo's been willing to dive into more mature games, but I don't think Saints Row is the kind of mature they want. More like Eternal Darkness at an extreme, and more often Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Xenoblade, and Metroid.
 
I quite like THQ (mostly because of Relic). I was hoping they'd manage to sort everything out but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

I hope someone buys the Metro, Darksiders, Homeworld, Company of Heroes, Saints Row and Dawn Of War (although they don't really own that) franchises if it gets worse but i really hope it doesn't go to anyone like EA or Activision as they will just ruin them all. I'd be happy if Valve bought them but that isn't going to happen.
 
mMTpM.jpg


So if it were up to you guys, which publisher would be best for any of THQ's properties? Saint's Row and Red Faction should go to WB Games, and Darksiders should end up with SE. Those be a great fit for them.

I think SE should buy all of them. They've proven to be very respectful of the western developers they've worked with.
 
Bayonetta is also the exact opposite of Nintendo's image. Not that I think they will do it for other reasons, but the whole Nintendo protecting their kid image just isn't true anymore, or it's not true to the extend that they wouldn't publish a M rated game. Hell just look at the ii U launch. Ninja Gaiden 3 is bloody as hell and they are publishing and marketing.
 

Binabik15

Member
GW finally gave the Warhammer IP to someone good and then they go belly up before I get another Space Marine :/

Metro, DoW, CoH were good games as well, SR is more fun than GTA for dicking around and better than vanilla GTA4 (haven't played the add-ons, even though I own them) if you ignore AMD performance, I got a copy of RF:Guerilla with Metro, but it won't install. I have Darksiders 1+2, but for my brother, haven't played them myself so far.

Overall, I like what I bought from THQ and they got some good teams, I hope they make it out okay and get new homes instead of getting butchered for talen.
 

Rich!

Member
So uh, if THQ goes under, what happens to the digital copies on Steam? Will they be taken down? Will people lose their purchases?

Worrying.
 

Glass Rebel

Member
I think I've bought almost every THQ game on Steam, except for some minor stuff and Darksiders II.Fingers crossed for a "clearance" sale.

So uh, if THQ goes under, what happens to the digital copies on Steam? Will they be taken down? Will people lose their purchases?

Worrying.

Probably to the former, no to the latter.
 

KissVibes

Banned
So uh, if THQ goes under, what happens to the digital copies on Steam? Will they be taken down? Will people lose their purchases?

Worrying.

They'll go down until the rights transfer to another publisher or holding company. You wont lose the ability to download those games, though. Just like on XBLA where some games get pulled but those that bought them can still download them.
 

dionysus

Yaldog
Other than Saints Row, I am not sure any of their IP is valuable. THQ has admitted most of the games in these IPs were break even or slightly profitable. That means going from past performance the net present value of these franchises going forward is basically zero.

In bankruptcy, most companies can maintain operations once they are allowed to postpone debt payments, pensions, accounts payable, etc. Their cash flow will cover salaries, rent, and the other bare minimum expenses needed to keep the lights on.

THQ may be one of the few bankruptcies where under no scenario will cash flow cover the bare minimum expenses. This means we may be looking at a liquidation, and for a game company with no physical assets other than offices, it is not good. To keep the company out of liquidation the major creditors or a new creditor would have to agree to extend more financing, and I think that is doubtful except to keep the Saints Row developer open.

Temporarily shuttering Volition while trying to sell the studio would destroy all its value. Already every day the studio loses value as I am sure most employees are job hunting, to shutter it completely would mean it would be almost impossible to get those employees to stay at Volition without serially offering retention bonuses.
 
So I've been asking around today, there are at least 4 interested parties in Saints Row, 1 interested party in Darksiders and 1 interested party in Company of Heroes.

Our guy says the banks will be able to recover around $40m from asset sales and a further $10m from the sale of offices, equipment and leases.

Even though THQ are done for, their major IPs are going to survive as will a couple of the studios.

If anyone has questions about the future of other IPs I can ask our guy who is advising one of the interested parties as to what the prospects are.
 

sTeLioSco

Banned
So I've been asking around today, there are at least 4 interested parties in Saints Row, 1 interested party in Darksiders and 1 interested party in Company of Heroes.

Our guy says the banks will be able to recover around $40m from asset sales and a further $10m from the sale of offices, equipment and leases.

Even though THQ are done for, their major IPs are going to survive as will a couple of the studios.

If anyone has questions about the future of other IPs I can ask our guy who is advising one of the interested parties as to what the prospects are.

hope company of heroes 2 gets completed by the studio...

can you check "metro last light"?
 
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