The eDRAM is the main RAM. It's called MEM1 for this very reason.
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Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM, [Up: RAM 43% slower than 360/PS3 RAM]
- Thread starter Horse Armour
- Start date
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
And again, what part of my posts disputed the RAM specs? Are you sure you're quoting the posts you're replying to? Or at least reading them in full and not instantly resorting to fanboyish kneejerk reactions?
I merely gave a quote from EatChildren who was paraphrasing developers with actual hands on experience with the hardware, having a game in development, and how they actually said the system altogether avoids typical bottlenecks like RAM latency. How it does so is not for me to say as no details were given beyond that. It's also not for anyone to say before knowing the rest of it and how the system is actually utilized in practice. It could in fact be an issue after all is revealed (though what that issue results in isn't necessarily worse performance than the PS360). But it may not be the whole story. Where do you see denial exactly? I should run in circles telling everyone it's 100% worse than the PS360 based on this thread to be considered rational by the likes of you?
Edit: actually, some slight vague details were given beyond the statement previously paraphrased.
Perhaps Shin'en were pulling things out of their ass. Perhaps all knowing you can explain how this is in fact nonsense and gibberish.Shin'en said:
I mean, they had no reason to take this apparent major flaw nobody had even heard of at that point in time and turn it around into a positive with nonsense that don't actually stick out of the blue but who knows, maybe they did in fact do that. Please explain it.
Edit: Oh well, you seem to have stopped replying now. Too bad, I was looking forward to getting a little educated on the matter.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Why should I care about sales if they have no baring on the support a console gets?
Should I just masturbate to the first sign of Nintendo's stock reversing it's decline?
gamergirly
Member
Aren't next gen budgets expected to double? Wii U will continue to get more support than Wii did, especially if developers cant afford AAAA titles.....
Nintendo's problem with third party support has always been about the perception of demographics way more than it has been about hardware, though the Wii massively complicated the issue by having hardware that was so unfamiliar to the vast bulk of western developers. Most of whom have come over from the PC side since the launch of the original Xbox.
Because that is where the new games would be.
umm the ps3 model has 250GB hard drive, uncharted 3 GOTY bundled (I believe this is what you refer to) and is sold at a profit.
the wiiu came around 6-7 years later and still has issues with ports of last gen consoles
yay?
Well, rumors lately have the PS4 as an APU only architecture.. Which can't be that powerful.
I really hope for either MS or Sony to go crazy and build a powerful system at a high cost.. But I'm skeptical because sony is in financial distress and MS probably will include a Kinect update and sacrifice power to compensate costs...
Horse Armour
Member
If you're not interested in tech then why post in this thread?
Like noted they may push for better effects (or FPS) and thus forsake 1080p. Even if we don't see 720p games frequently we'll probably see a lot that are in between 720p and 1080p, much like a huge chunk of current HD games are somewhere in between 480p (SO4 battles at the closest) and 720p.
And... yeah, 1080p looks WAY better, especially on a 1080p display (obviously), but the gulf isn't quite as bad as 480p versus 720p so long as the games are actually 720p, and BLOPS2 is reassuring there.
I wonder if it's possible the wi-fi hardware actually IS more expensive than most normal tablet hardware? Though I expect better screen/build quality too.
and why were they there? because of the newer better tech.
shinra-bansho
Member
With the exception of the present generation (or do we say former now) generational transition's have been marked by significant increases in hardware capability.
New generation hardware has been significantly more powerful - as a selling point - over the preceding generation. Ergo yes, it has been about tech.
Again, WiiU has 1 GB of usable RAM for games, other 1 GB is reserved for OS.
So correct answer would be WiiU has only 2x of usable RAM which is slower than XDR and GDDR3 in PS3 and is a 6 years younger console. And that is pretty pathetic.
There's a difference between saying the CPU runs at a lower clock or the volatile secondary memory has less GB/s than current generation consoles, and saying the system overall is less powerful.
It'd be a bit like when the transition from Netburst to Core 2 Duo happened and saying the lower clock speeds of the new CPUs meant PCs were getting slower.
I think for Wii U, the tech AND the demographic (or whatever the percoeve s one is) is the issue. The marketing for this thing is borked this far. Nintendo's confusing casuals and doing a half-assed, seemingly reluctant job to appeal to the hardcore.
I don't at all expect it to be much different than the Wii.
So if sales have no baring on support why is vita getting no games in comparison to 3ds?
MadeInBeats
Banned
ShadowFox08
Member
But Wii turned off core games and 3rd party devs a like(mostly western devs)
. has done horribly in regards to 3rd party sales. And part of it, really was due to hardware limitations.
Actually, iirc PS3 is rocking 256 MB of RAM, but still. What a strange console so far.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
The latest I've read is that Sony is aiming to make the console powerful enough to run most games at 1080p@60fps
It doesn't come with Uncharted and whether or not it is sold at a profit does not change the value to the consumer.
Are we really going to pretend that the PS3 is an engineering wonder? Sony went from first to last place in the hardware race on the back of a system that came out a year late, $200 more expensive and was weaker.
It's running Black Ops 2 at 720p isnt it?
The PS3 is a pretty bad comparison since it doesn't have eDRAM (but it also has ~2.5x the total external memory bandwidth). 360 is a better comparison, but the eDRAM in Wii U may be more flexible (and it's obviously larger).
and the wii u is significantly more powerful over the wii. what's the problem?
And you are forgetting that Nintendo is just a small software company and not a big hardware/software company like Sony and MS is that can take those kind of losses (well Sony is having trouble with that ATM lol)
It is getting games like NFS, CoD and Assasins Creed mainly because of the potent hardware i would guess.
Newer better tech doesn't have to be more powerful. Systems can be designed more efficiently, new controls lead to new gameplay, developers don't have to start at the ground floor with new architecture.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Well it depends on the clock speed.
If Ninty clock at 800Mhz due to heat and energy consumption then overall bandwidth is 12.8GB/s
If they clock at 1066Mhz then it's 17GB/s.
For comparision.
360: 22.4 GB/s
PS3: 25.6 GB/s
That says basically nothing about performance, though.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
The problem is Nintendo act like simply having a system that can output HD graphics means it's modern. The second the next systems come out, this system is dated, and supporting it becomes a chore. You either take a risk on a system with an unproven userbase or you just make the same game for both PS4 and 720, while also being able to put out a PC port.
It's one thing to say you don't want to get drawn in to rising dev costs and shit. The problem is Nintendo doesn't control the industry. If they want to make games for their own system that don't cost too much to make, that's fine, but it ends up compromising the long-term potential of the console for people who aren't Nintendo. If someone wants to make a low budget game, they'll make it for iOS or digital distribution.
It's one thing to say you don't want to get drawn in to rising dev costs and shit. The problem is Nintendo doesn't control the industry. If they want to make games for their own system that don't cost too much to make, that's fine, but it ends up compromising the long-term potential of the console for people who aren't Nintendo. If someone wants to make a low budget game, they'll make it for iOS or digital distribution.
MatthewB92
Member
I mean this is a very crappy example but isn't the fact Black Ops 2 is 720p while on the 360/PS3 is onlt that sub HD resolution enough proof that somewhere the Wii U is more powerful than the 360/PS3?
Don't matter but it means something atlease. Even if it's 0.4x more powerful
Though doesn't matter my PC even though not the most powerful thing in the world can be them all.You guys who orgasm over numbers are irritating. Yes Nintendo is about cutting costs, but those costs are passed down to the consumer as well. All costs are passed down to the consumer. You know how the Vita is $250? Yeah, well have fun with your $100 32 megabyte memory cards. Have fun with your dead system that noone wants even though it plays nearly current gen stuff on a handheld.
For everyone complaining about how the WiiU costs $350 with 7 year old tech, yet are almost willing to line up today for the 720/PS4- how much do you think those systems are going to cost? If you don't think Sony learned from their mistake of the $600 PS3 launch, do you think the PS4 will be much better? Sony's bleeding money- I have no clue why they'd want to go heads up with Microsoft considering how strong the yen is compared to the dollar.
Specs mean nothing. People buy games to have fun. What Nintendo offers is brilliant. If you want to play a game on the WiiU Pad, you HAVE to buy a WiiU. If you want to play Call of Duty, then you have a choice between the systems. There is nothing that the other systems offer that the WiiU can't offer. If the biggest selling point of the next Xbox or Playstation is that it has better graphics, it will be DOA. Maybe not completely dead, because each brand has large fanbases- but growth will be minimal especially if costs are high.
For everyone complaining about how the WiiU costs $350 with 7 year old tech, yet are almost willing to line up today for the 720/PS4- how much do you think those systems are going to cost? If you don't think Sony learned from their mistake of the $600 PS3 launch, do you think the PS4 will be much better? Sony's bleeding money- I have no clue why they'd want to go heads up with Microsoft considering how strong the yen is compared to the dollar.
Specs mean nothing. People buy games to have fun. What Nintendo offers is brilliant. If you want to play a game on the WiiU Pad, you HAVE to buy a WiiU. If you want to play Call of Duty, then you have a choice between the systems. There is nothing that the other systems offer that the WiiU can't offer. If the biggest selling point of the next Xbox or Playstation is that it has better graphics, it will be DOA. Maybe not completely dead, because each brand has large fanbases- but growth will be minimal especially if costs are high.
But practically every single developer has said it's at least as powerful as the 360 and the PS3.
As for the argument as to how this effects 3rd party support, that's something completely different. I think Nintendo are just desperately hoping that 3rd parties might finally just say "Crap, we really can't afford another bump in dev costs. Let's reuse our engines, use the new system as an opportunity to launch some new IPs and add some novelty with the second screen."
I think they'll get it from Japanese publishers, but there's no hope with western publishers.
Backfoggen
Banned
Guys, you can't compare console RAM with PC RA.. oh..
It runs ME3 and NG3 sloppily. Dunno about Blops II, but 2/3 is a losing game.
Sony is financial services company with several money losing electronics side businesses.
Transitionwise (lastgen to next gen), yes
For the competition within the same gen, no
But compared to wii the wiiu has better tech anyways ...
Selling any hardware is and always be about software.
for those that believe 1080/60 will be any kind of standard next gen over 720, bookmark your posts. More common? Sure. Standard? No. Elimination of 720? Not a chance in hell.
As we discussed in the thread for it, if its an indication of the final product then the PS4 will be quite the beast.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Ofcourse it does. If they're aiming for a 1080p@60fps standard then the machine must be much more powerful than the current gen
I feel pretty comfortable in saying that if there wasn't the perception of "our franchise doesn't really fit the Nintendo hardware-owning audience" then Nintendo would have almost no problem with third-party support this generation. I suppose their hardware focus plays its part, but it's not the most significant part in my view.
Further to this, I've been saying for a while now that I expect a whole lot of cross-generation game engines for the first couple of years of the next generation. With how companies are bleeding they don't want to give up that PS3/360 audience unless they absolutely have to, or see it in their best interests to do so.
well, specs will mean something when developers and publishers alike skip out on bringing over future and current games. in the long run, it's bad for consumers who buy the wii u, when they can't get even get something comparable to what will be found on other next gen systems.
This is true of basically every system ever. Maybe not the Neo-Geo.
That's nice, but you're being naive to think that developers will care about that. Have a look at what happened this generation - resolution and frame rate sacrificed in the name of geometry and explosions. That's exactly what will happen next generation, unless 1080p is mandated.
Admittedly launch ports aren't the best way to gauge how capable a system is. Maybe how easy it is to port, but it doesn't sound like those two are THAT far ahead (with NG3 possibly preferable for other reasons), just that for anyone who already has an HD console they're not really worth getting.
Well, this IS something of a chicken/egg problem since many of those people either A. ARE on other platforms rather than on Wii, or B. have both, and if they're the same game will get the HD version instead unless something went wrong or Wii Remote controls are essential, or they offload a clearly inferior (or at least very different) spinoff on Wii. Then when you have the best unique/"mature" stuff be very niche, yeah, it's kind of risky.
Also, I think a lot of it is porting ease. The GC shared many PS2/Xbox multiplats and the Wii didn't get shafted in PS2 games while they still came, the Wii U will probably see plenty of 360/PS3 multiplats, and if GTAV doesn't show up while other games do it could well be developer bias. If the Wii were at least reasonably close to the 360/PS3 in raw power most developers would've probably ported to it, even if they phoned in Wii Remote controls and expected players to just use a Classic Controller.
I see most people don't realize that 1080p is standard resolution for games on PC for few years. Go to durante DS fix and some people are downsampling it from resolutions above 4k.
I predict next gen consoles will do 1080p/30/60fps with decent AA , some simpler games being 4k just for show and ports of current games in 4k.
For example Gran Turismo 5 was already showed in 4K with 4ps3 linked together
I predict next gen consoles will do 1080p/30/60fps with decent AA , some simpler games being 4k just for show and ports of current games in 4k.
For example Gran Turismo 5 was already showed in 4K with 4ps3 linked together