Lovely Salsa
Banned
what is not going to happen? 1080p WILL be standard next gen
Current pc gamers are already playing games at 1080p and have been doing it for awhile. 1080p wasn't normal in 2005 but it is now
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Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM, [Up: RAM 43% slower than 360/PS3 RAM]
- Thread starter Horse Armour
- Start date
what is not going to happen? 1080p WILL be standard next gen
Current pc gamers are already playing games at 1080p and have been doing it for awhile. 1080p wasn't normal in 2005 but it is now
Bad argument, as always. There are plenty of developers making PS3 games on budgets smaller than some Wii games. I'm sure all of the Gust games on PS3 had a lower budget than Xenoblade.
Just because the upper limit rises doesn't mean you can't use the same budget as before to achieve a significantly better result.
MadeInBeats
Banned
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Sorry to distract you people from twisting the knife, but anyone read the above? Anyone?
Next-gen engines will be scalable, so the WiiU should be able to run your average game. Though I can't see it getting the big budgets titles without some modifications.
Even then, the current engines running on the WiiU are most likely ported 360 engines of already outdated engines built around outdated hardware. WiiU games will look better and run better when they are actually developed with engines taking advantage of modern architecture and native features not found in older hardware.
Forgot about that. It does seem to make sense when coupled with this news. It's more about how the WiiU's architecture was put together, not just raw numbers. That was a big focus on Iwata's Ask too.
To be honest i would have been perfectly satisfied with 10 more years of wii level tech and bunch of more wii__ titles instead of financial adventures like metroid prime, zelda or pikmin... Sure i love those games but one zelda game is equivalent to ten Wii__ games in terms of manpower and financial investment...
Gemüsepizza
Member
Epic said: compared to the beginning of last generation. Launch games won't be much more expensive than current games.
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
PS3 hasn't exactly proven inferior to the 360 or anything, ports have gotten a lot better (although different architecture alone can lead to issues regardless of how good it is, as there are issues between AMD and NVIDIA cards based on what a given developer focused on, ie, money, not tech and know how) and exclusives are plentiful too. Not that anyone here is waiting for the majority of devs to chime in, instead just claiming it's worse than the PS360 for a fact without any dev input considered, just the numbers.
wait... how did we get to the 17 GB/s number....
suppose the max clock speed is 1066 MHz so 2133 MT/s b/c it's DDR, with a 16-bits/transfer
2133 MegaTransfers/s * 16 bits/Transfer = 34128 Mbit/s -> 4.166 GB/s?
let me know if i'm way off my rocker here...
if Nintendo configured the 4 chips in parallel so that they run on a 64-bit bus which is the same bit width as the GC/Wii memory controller (quad-channel), it would actually be...
16.66 GB/s
is this how 17 GB/s was reached? by rounding up?
suppose the max clock speed is 1066 MHz so 2133 MT/s b/c it's DDR, with a 16-bits/transfer
2133 MegaTransfers/s * 16 bits/Transfer = 34128 Mbit/s -> 4.166 GB/s?
let me know if i'm way off my rocker here...
if Nintendo configured the 4 chips in parallel so that they run on a 64-bit bus which is the same bit width as the GC/Wii memory controller (quad-channel), it would actually be...
16.66 GB/s
is this how 17 GB/s was reached? by rounding up?
Well at least on those 2 they could decide to release a game on an established download service like XBLA or PSN instead of deciding how to incorporate a gamepad screen functionality or tread the fledgling Nintendo Network
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
ofcourse 720/ps4 is going to be 1080p.
its going to be pr goal in it self.
Later gen games will sacrifice resolution for graphics.
its going to be pr goal in it self.
Later gen games will sacrifice resolution for graphics.
I'm just marely pointing that any mid range hardware can play anything in 1080p/60fps this day. In normal console cycle new consoles are able to do what high spec PC do or yet can't thanks to closed platform structure.
720p on new consoles will be super rare thing if at all will be used.
PS3 is good for devs. It is just different.
Let's wait what mayority say first.
And those devs will not release their games on eshop because?
Gemüsepizza
Member
Isn't this just an improved 3DS port? The game has some nice effects, but we don't now how important RAM is here.
Huh? I didn't say that. I was countering the statement that better hardware always requires higher investment across all titles.
I think we'll be seeing more 720p/60fps games.
That was as rare as 1080p games this gen.
amen. leave the guy alone, hes dead.
Bookmark your own post. It's not going to be standard.
1080p was already a PR goal this gen, if you recall. You can't play that card twice.
You'd be better of posting what the Trine 2 devs have said because they've actually worked on different hardware. Namely that they are able to get better graphics out of the Wii U than they could the PS3/360.
As of last E3 they were aiming to get the game running closer to how the PC version ran.
As of last E3 they were aiming to get the game running closer to how the PC version ran.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Well saw this coming but was hoping otherwise 
Sure. I have to say I don't think Bayonetta is coup. Ditto any partnership with Namco be it for Smash Bros, Tekken, whatever. Bayonetta tanked on two platforms with massive install bases and Namco's games just don't typically do that well the past few years.
But you're right. If they can get that stuff - those discussions - going with the big guys, they'd be in a good place. I don't think they're go-getters in that way unfortunately, but that has more to do with how the company and it's branches are run.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
sure. but 720p was the target. Nextgen is guaranteed to be buildt around 1080p.
To me personally..Mikami was the reason why I loved Platinum, without him I really don't care. But yea I think they are banking a lot on MGS:R, and Bayo. Time will tell if they end up being a success for them or not
Well I was thinking Nintendo can give some 'incentives' if needed to get a few exclusives on board. I think Japanese companies will be more supportive of the wiiu than the west though. I think the initial sales of the hardware + 3rd party software are gonna be key for future support.
It really will be interesting if both msony reveal their consoles next E3. Then Nintendo will really need to step it up or the other two will need to mess up real bad
Yes, and it means effort
you have to rewrite cpu heavy code for the gpu and what not, effort means more money spending.. for ports that's a big NO.Oh I'm not suggesting it's a coup or anything, just the sort of thing they should be doing.
I never said otherwise, but when people talk about the Wii U being left behind they don't consider that either.
The idea that the Wii U is going to be left to die by Day One Durango and Orbis projects that blow the U away from the moment those systems launch, is in my opinion wrong and a weak argument in itself.
Whether those lower budget Durango and Orbis games achieve "significantly better results" than what can be done on Wii U remains to be seen.
Right, right. Completely agreed.
Especially when they are told long enough and hard enough by marketing to be wowed. Microsoft in particular is really good at that.
The "experts" on GAF are mostly people who know that 22 is larger than 17. The idea of different memory pools with different characteristics is as meaningful to them as a Farsi cookbook.
Durante said:
The general perception of those low-budget Japanese PS3 games is that they are poor, in part because they seem to be basically PS2 games.
The context of your discussion was the claim that the PS4/720 would have a lot of big-budget AAAA games being made for it - not upscaled PSP Disgaea. Sure, developers can make games for those systems without spending a lot, but they can't make AAAA blockbusters.
A lot of mid-tier games are moving in the direction where they rely more on art style and gameplay and run on pretty much anything.
MadeInBeats
Banned
And that's exactly why PS360 ports seem so poor. Means nothing for next gen development.Yes, and it means effort
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
OMG what a shock!!!
Wii U runs on Korean Pikmins!!!!!
Wii U runs on Korean Pikmins!!!!!
I've never thought of Microsoft as one to get people excited about rendering resolution. Apple, sure, but not Microsoft.
Is durango and orbis even announced? Somehow i think we will not be seeing both platforms until 2014 on shelves
Until ps4 and 720's specs are revealed.
Consumers aren't going to want to pay for the costs of the next Xbox/Playstation if they're huge upgrades from the present. 4K requires 4K compatible TVs. For 1080P to look good, it requires 1080P televisions- and as common as you think they are, in a few years a lot of people will still have those 720p systems they bought on black friday this year, last year, next year, etc. Not to mention the cost of the consoles themselves is going to be outrageous. The PS3 is like 6-7 years old. We consider it a steal right now that it's going for $200. The Wii U is old hardware. It's $350. Next gen won't launch for under $499 unless there's something stupid alongside it like proprietary memory cards.
You can quote me next year, 2 years down the line, 3 years down the line- The WiiU is winning this "next-gen" battle and it won't even be close. It will sell far more. It will be more well received (by the general public). And it will be praised for being a machine that appeals to wide audiences at an efficient price point.
Nintendo has four huge advantages:
1) Launched first
2) WiiU Pad
3) Strong software portfolio
4) Has the ability to dramatically reduce price by the time the next Xbox/Playstation come to market. Next year (or the year after) let's say the next Xbox launches at $499. Not too pricey compared to the WiiU right? Wrong. The WiiU Deluxe could easily drop down to $249 or $299 by then granting a massive price difference.
You can quote me next year, 2 years down the line, 3 years down the line- The WiiU is winning this "next-gen" battle and it won't even be close. It will sell far more. It will be more well received (by the general public). And it will be praised for being a machine that appeals to wide audiences at an efficient price point.
Nintendo has four huge advantages:
1) Launched first
2) WiiU Pad
3) Strong software portfolio
4) Has the ability to dramatically reduce price by the time the next Xbox/Playstation come to market. Next year (or the year after) let's say the next Xbox launches at $499. Not too pricey compared to the WiiU right? Wrong. The WiiU Deluxe could easily drop down to $249 or $299 by then granting a massive price difference.
Next gen will be promoted as 4k. 1080p is no brainer.
720p is already ugly as fuck.
btw what is framebuffer for 1080p image with 4msaa ?
Unless the PS4 gets further delayed, they'll both be on shelves at the end of 2013.
Perkel said:
Nevermind 1080p standards, but 4K now? Oh GAF... You never cease to amaze me.
Maybe instead of doing measurements of framebuffer size of a 1080p image with 4xmsaa (LOL like you're going to get MSAA next gen... it's going to be blur "AA" filters), you should do some calculations as to how you're going to fit the equivalent to 2xGTX 680's inside a console box to achieve the fillrate you'd need to play a typical AAA game at anywhere near a 4K resolution.
(Side note: just because the display adapter inside the console supports 4K, doesn't mean you won't see a lot of 720p titles. The Wii U GPU supports a 2K resolution, but the vast majority of its titles will be 720p outside the simpler forays)
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Bookmark your own post. It's going to be standard.
Yeah, that must be it. Or you know, maybe we already discussed those comments in their own thread, and are now more interested in newly released concrete information than vague feel-good messages by developers.
I'm confused by all that techy talk. Concretely, if indeed, the WiiU has more ram but slower, hos does that balance the potential result ??
What really matter in the end is the perceived things. Does that balance, and the modern gpu allow for some better perceived visuals than the average PS360 game... Like you know, some 3ds game poly count is incredibly cheap, even compared to psp, but still look better.
I think when you're talking about next gen games. it will e a matter of perception. If you can do something that's "enough", it could do the trick. I'll still take the exemple of some mid next gen games like Battlefield 3 or The witcher 2. Are the console version doing the trick to most people ? Will the WiiU have just the amount of extra ram to make the diminishing return effect effective ?
If you take the Star Wars game, sure there are some crazy models and light (not even sure about the light). A downgrade of that with good enough IQ wouldn't shock most people i think. If things are clean. So will the WiiU be able to offer just enough so kids don't really see the difference from a certain distance in a store ? And will dev matter and try anyway... We'll see.
What really matter in the end is the perceived things. Does that balance, and the modern gpu allow for some better perceived visuals than the average PS360 game... Like you know, some 3ds game poly count is incredibly cheap, even compared to psp, but still look better.
I think when you're talking about next gen games. it will e a matter of perception. If you can do something that's "enough", it could do the trick. I'll still take the exemple of some mid next gen games like Battlefield 3 or The witcher 2. Are the console version doing the trick to most people ? Will the WiiU have just the amount of extra ram to make the diminishing return effect effective ?
If you take the Star Wars game, sure there are some crazy models and light (not even sure about the light). A downgrade of that with good enough IQ wouldn't shock most people i think. If things are clean. So will the WiiU be able to offer just enough so kids don't really see the difference from a certain distance in a store ? And will dev matter and try anyway... We'll see.
Refreshment.01
Member
WiiU Specs threads should be social studies about a person insecurity and complexs.
I don't get how hard is to just disscus the technical aspects of the system while leaving the BS defensive statements outside. The irony these threads always get invaded by people who suposedly don't think technical merits are the important part of videogames.
Regarding the memory, it seems the "slowness" will be offset by the eDRAM. The bad part is that if Nintendo went with cheap DDR3 then more of it should've been included.
I don't get how hard is to just disscus the technical aspects of the system while leaving the BS defensive statements outside. The irony these threads always get invaded by people who suposedly don't think technical merits are the important part of videogames.
Regarding the memory, it seems the "slowness" will be offset by the eDRAM. The bad part is that if Nintendo went with cheap DDR3 then more of it should've been included.
MadeInBeats
Banned
A similar thing was said about the Wii, albeit differently.
The Wii U is a bit of a joke in my opinion.
Where does that information come from?
When was the last time a system was shown on E3 and released that same year?
We can't pin point the difference until they are revealed.
shinra-bansho
Member
$499? lol.
...Microsoft aren't stupid enough to launch a console at $499 entrypoint and if Sony are stupid enough to do it again, they deserve to go down in flames.
...Microsoft aren't stupid enough to launch a console at $499 entrypoint and if Sony are stupid enough to do it again, they deserve to go down in flames.
Lovely Salsa
Banned
Xbox 360