wakajawaka
Member
interesting stuff
Thanks a lot for the answer, seems pretty reasonable.
interesting stuff
so compared to xbox360, ps3 how is the wii u?
It's actually very possible if MS opts for a large pool of DDR3.
COD Black Ops 2 is a port and it looks and plays better on Wii-U than 360 as I have both versions and stopped playing 360 version as it was not as sharp looking and more lag.
Thats honest as well man some willl disagree cause it's nintendo but it really is better.
most of these games are ports.... Give Nintendo time to make a real Wii U game even Mario was started on Wii and they adpated for Wii-U. Still to this day some of Nintendo's Wii games look better than PS3 and 360 games so imagine the level of detail and quaility Wii U games will have in 4-5 months...
It's all about developers. Also looks like the Wii U will become the Indie platform of choice which will steer alot of people.
so compared to xbox360, ps3 how is the wii u?
I am big supporter of EDRAM and other fast memory techniques. But the 1GB is still a burden as evidenced by launch titles. Free roaming games with very random memory access patterns, that need to take in bigger chunks of game world in memory at once will struggle.if its 32MB of edram, the bandwidth would be significantly higher than 360 or PS3 main memory and allow the GPU to really do some decent work. But it will require optimisation.
Nintendo first parties will do that, the big question is how easy is it to do for third parties
Why are you lying? BO2 has terrible framerate problems and doesn't look as good as the 360 version. Maybe the PS3, but it still has worst framerate then that.
X360 and PS3 had specs above what they should have had in 2005, GPU's were really high range for instance, RAM was also over the top (specially in capacity; 512 was really good, but proibitive).The rumor was "Large pool of GDDR3" which would probably end up being just as fast as whats in the 360 now, or depending on config could be slower or (likely) faster.
If the stacked GPU/Fast RAM rumor of the PS3 holds water, MS would be smart to have some decent bandwidth going on in their system too.
So you've played both version i assume?
I did see the screenshot where the dynamic shadows in MP didn't look too hot. And the cushions were missing (which seems rather trivial).
So you've played both version i assume?
I did see the screenshot where the dynamic shadows in MP didn't look too hot. And the cushions were missing (which seems rather trivial).
of all the games with shite framerates Chasing Aurora hurts the most.
I am big supporter of EDRAM and other fast memory techniques. But the 1GB is still a burden as evidenced by launch titles. Free roaming games with very random memory access patterns, that need to take in bigger chunks of game world in memory at once will struggle.
Also Arkam confirmed the GPU wasn't too impressive just has more modern features. In a couple of years the WiiU will running the iPad versions of major multi plat games - it will a be a lot closer to that than PS4/xbox720.
COD Black Ops 2 is a port and it looks and plays better on Wii-U than 360 as I have both versions and stopped playing 360 version as it was not as sharp looking and more lag.
Thats honest as well man some willl disagree cause it's nintendo but it really is better.
Why are you lying? BO2 has terrible framerate problems and doesn't look as good as the 360 version. Maybe the PS3, but it still has worst framerate then that.
So you've played both version i assume?
I did see the screenshot where the dynamic shadows in MP didn't look too hot. And the cushions were missing (which seems rather trivial).
I picked up the Wii U version last night after picking up the 360 version and I have to say I find that Wii U version pic a little misleading. First of all, the shot at the top looks far more sparse because the pillows have been shot away. They're interactive elements in the environment and can be moved. I tested it myself in a multiplayer match. It gives the impression of there being "less" detail in the Wii U screenshot even though both have equal amounts of content.
The Wii U shot shows shadows in the game at their worst. They definitely aren't as good as they are on the 360 (the 360 isn't that great mind you) but I went into that same area and moved around and found that the shadows were noticeably better at the right angles.
Also, there seems to be a design in the lower right hand corner on the Wii U shot that is missing from the 360 shot. I didn't look for that particular in either game last night.
Honestly, both screenshots here are hit or miss but I do think the Wii U shot is misleading due to the lack of pillows giving it a "less" detailed look overall.
The real issue right now is getting that player count up. I also wish I could adjust button usage slightly.
The issue is simple; the framerate is NOT stable in single player. It drops below 60 fps almost constantly with only empty areas delivering a consistent framerate. Now, most of the time it hovers around the 50 fps mark, I'd say, but there are some instances where it drops much lower. Does it ruin the game? No, but it does detract from the presentation.
Reliable posters (darkX) have played them and have said the WiiU version is the worst of the bunch.
Dark has, to my knowledge only really talked about framerates. we haven't had IQ comparisons yet to know where it falls, and what if any other differences there may be, beyond shadow detail not kicking in at the same distances in the Wii U version compared to the 360.
MP is 60 fps locked, near enough, according to Dark. SP framerate gets very choppy in places (mission 1, end of missions 2... not sure if he's played much further than that yet), according to him also.
make of that what you will... he certainly didn't say it was worst of the bunch overall. he did say SP has lower framerates than the others though.
I am big supporter of EDRAM and other fast memory techniques. But the 1GB is still a burden as evidenced by launch titles. Free roaming games with very random memory access patterns, that need to take in bigger chunks of game world in memory at once will struggle.
Also Arkam confirmed the GPU wasn't too impressive just has more modern features. In a couple of years the WiiU will running the iPad versions of major multi plat games - it will a be a lot closer to that than PS4/xbox720.
Hey i like bologna
Well, not a rosy "akin to PS4/Xbox720" level of power, clearly.
But rosy as a "more distinguishable step over current gen, visually, than what we're witnessing now", yes.
There are released launch day games on Wii U, exclusives, that could be compared to the good-looking xbox360 titles, with in addition 720p resolution, steady 30fps, and intricate use of the gamepad on certain sequence (so another 480p to render). And the teams behind managed to greatly increase what they could do just from a v4 dev kit context to a v5 one, a few months ago. Moreover, they clearly indicated that the learning curve (like any other platform you could say) and potential is here, so what they achieved for their first projects will be noticeably surpassed by their second.
Now, for the ports, it's another matter, undoubtedly disappointing, i expected more.
No problem
can you tell us anything about the Embedded Ram? I'm still wondering if it will be used like the the Embedded Ram in the PS2 as the Vram.
Yeah... fortunately that goes both ways ofcourse. This post was just as much about you as it was about BGassassin. Whichever side of the fence you're on.
I don't know the details but like i said, i never once heard problems concerning the supposedly slow DDR3 ram, on the contrary, a lot of compliments on the memory layout, so i guess the eDram plays a huge role in that.
I don't know the details but like i said, i never once heard problems concerning the supposedly slow DDR3 ram, on the contrary, a lot of compliments on the memory layout, so i guess the eDram plays a huge role in that.
The Wii U should sell well based on the brand alone. Downloadable indie titles like World of Goo and Trine will do well on the platform.IF tablets and ipads keep going up and console sales keep going down ipad ports might actually be a good thing for nintendos business.
COD Black Ops 2 is a port and it looks and plays better on Wii-U than 360 as I have both versions and stopped playing 360 version as it was not as sharp looking and more lag.
Thats honest as well man some willl disagree cause it's nintendo but it really is better.
most of these games are ports.... Give Nintendo time to make a real Wii U game even Mario was started on Wii and they adpated for Wii-U. Still to this day some of Nintendo's Wii games look better than PS3 and 360 games so imagine the level of detail and quaility Wii U games will have in 4-5 months...
It's all about developers. Also looks like the Wii U will become the Indie platform of choice which will steer alot of people.
Can we just simplify all this stuff for us commoners please? Between the next Xbox, PS4, and Wii U...
What's all this in DBZ power levels?
There's no "supposedly" slow about it.
That depends on how much of your game world you can fit in 32MB. And how quick you can swap assets like huge textures from Mem2 to Mem1. Memory usage on fighting games is very predictable.free roaming games don't have random access patterns, you just need to cover what you can see as much as possible in edram, and stream in from main ram as you move around the map
something like GTA should have less problems with this setup than eg Tekken Tag which ideally would spunk the entire 1GB on glorious models and textures every frame, but will be choked.
Yes. Seeing guys like ideaman and lherre continue to be given credence on here is super annoying. I mean what the hell people.In hiding after getting exposed? Margalis summed it up best:
Convenient he 'left' the forum right before launch, too.
Yes there is. Slow for what ? Slower than PS360 ram for sure. Does it mean it's slow for playing games ? I dunno.
How are they selling at a loss if it's specs aren't that crazy 0_o?
Nothing I've said about my 'speculation' on the system has been wrong. Unlike some folk.
And yes, I'm not a dev but we are allowed to discuss the merits or not of the system on this 'discussion' board.
The funny thing is that I think that our overall assessment of WiiU's performance is not that far from each others. I'm just more prepared to state my utter disappointment then you are.
Are you less positive about the overall performance potential of WiiU since launch? Has you're opinion changed?
COD Black Ops 2 is a port and it looks and plays better on Wii-U than 360 as I have both versions and stopped playing 360 version as it was not as sharp looking and more lag.
Thats honest as well man some willl disagree cause it's nintendo but it really is better.
Maybe. That might be because of my age, and the fact that i was a Wii-only gamer. I don't have the same time to play games like i had 10 years ago when i was in college. I have a family and have to share my tv. So the WiiU is both a huge leap for me as well as the solution to needing to give up the TV to play. Further more, i'm not "ok" with all the decisions Nintendo made. I can't wrap my head around needing 1GB for the OS, the fact that the OS is rushed and borderline broken. The fact that only a select range of HDD seems to be working and furthermore, the fact that they didn't go through greater lengths to ensure decent 3rd party ports.
Those things bother me a lot more than the hardware being only 20% "next gen" (performance wise). Initially i expected a bit more, but i'm not bothered that much by that.
PS: And i'm bothered by Reggies overall incompetence and arrogance. Check that box.
Read the comments i made today on this matter My opinion hasn't changed on the overall performance potential. But it may have changed on the accessibility/easiness of the dev kits/sdk/whatever for small teams with low to moderate resources to tailor/adapt code thought for current gen HD.
Put it differently: i'm confident when i see ZombiU, some NintendoLand themes, combined with what i know and could partially revealed on the development (hence learning curve and potential for the future), but at the same time disappointed by ports.
How are they selling at a loss if it's specs aren't that crazy 0_o?
Read the comments i made today on this matter My opinion hasn't changed on the overall performance potential. But it may have changed on the accessibility/easiness of the dev kits/sdk/whatever for small teams with low to moderate resources to tailor/adapt code thought for current gen HD.
Put it differently: i'm confident when i see ZombiU, some NintendoLand themes, combined with what i know and could partially revealed on the development (hence learning curve and potential for the future), but at the same time disappointed by ports.
How could i describe this even simpler ?
1 >>>>>>2>>>>>>>>>>3 - My stance before release
1 >>>2>>>>>>>>>>>>>3 - Now
1= Current gen HD performances
2= What i thought lazy/small/with low-to-moderate resources teams could achieve on the system without too much efforts, thanks to the additional power (2x memory, etc)
3= Overall performance potential, that some games will reach later in the lifespan of the system, and which represent roughly a technical 2/2,5x leap from Xbox 360 (1x in the main screen + 0,5x in the gamepad + 0,5 to 1x of bonus thanks to the more modern architecture + memory/cache etc, so effects lacking on current gen hd games + better textures, IQ, etc).
free roaming games don't have random access patterns, you just need to cover what you can see as much as possible in edram, and stream in from main ram as you move around the map
something like GTA should have less problems with this setup than eg Tekken Tag which ideally would spunk the entire 1GB on glorious models and textures every frame, but will be choked.
It appears that all the Nintendo talk about building a machine that would allow easy ports from current next gen machines was just that. Talk.
I'm also hacked off by all the interviews by the devs saying it's so easy to port games over etc... and then we see the final results. Total bullshit PR speak from them.
I'm sure in the right hands, with enough time and resources, WiiU is capable of some amazing results but I fear that Nintendo doesn't really care about putting in the time and cash to achieve those results.
Nothing they have shown at launch would lead me to think they are willing to really push the hardware.
I of course don't have any proof otherwise but this sounds like a bunch of bs to me. For example, he references 2x memory when mentioning additional power but ignores the dreadful speed/bandwidth of said memory. Whole post sounds bs-ish.
I'm not trying to draw any conclusions, but it's still an amusing note. While the WiiU was rumored to be architecturally similar the the 360 much of the early conversation sounds eerily reminiscent of the rhetoric surrounding PS3. 'It's still early. Developers need to stop being lazy. Games need to be built from the ground-up.' I'm wondering how long it will be until we finally reach WiiU/360/PS3 games need to be built with WiiU as lead platform.It appears that all the Nintendo talk about building a machine that would allow easy ports from current next gen machines was just that. Talk.
I'm also hacked off by all the interviews by the devs saying it's so easy to port games over etc... and then we see the final results. Total bullshit PR speak from them.
I'm sure in the right hands, with enough time and resources, WiiU is capable of some amazing results but I fear that Nintendo doesn't really care about putting in the time and cash to achieve those results.
Nothing they have shown at launch would lead me to think they are willing to really push the hardware.
I don't think anybody is saying this is the ceiling for Wii U but it does not have the brute force to make ports look better without much work .
Do you think that PS4\720 is going to have trouble with last gen ports , chances are that is not going to happen .
Wii U games should look better in time but the question is how much and if it going to matter along with other things .
IdeaMan, I'm not saying you don't have some inside info, but as far as development and Wii U's capabilities go, I don't think you have any idea what the fuck you're talking about.
No offense or anything though.
But why do you always have to express your opinion in such bitter and angry posts ? It's really a waste.
For the 2x memory, it's because the memory layout is built in such a way that even if the 1GO of ram for games could be slow, it's alleviated by other elements (like eDram).
And i don't understand why i would "bs" about all this Wii U story since February, with a track record of maybe 20 correct infos, some very precise, and without anything to gain. Hell, there are other data i revealed, real silent mini-bomb that will be confirmed someday.
Please stop this weird vendetta against me, we could be friends and share cookies