I'm really hoping video latency (often called "controller lag") gets taken care of next gen. DF said the best responses were 3 frames at 30fps and 5 frames at 60fps - that's before any latency introduced by the TV. I know its also engine-dependent but damn this gen has had the worst playability in terms of video latency.
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
- Start date
- This generation was serious bandwith/fill-rate limited, that dont apply to next-gen
- With the industry moving towards 4K displays, I dont see how 720p 4-5 years from now is going to cut it.
- If rumors says PS4 will contain hardware not capable of 1080p with some AA on top, the rumors are probably wrong.
Because 4k TVS are still going to be "EXPENSIVE AS FUCK" 4-5 years from now. Even by Sony's own admission they are only looking at a 40%-50% price reduction in 5 years on displays that currently cost 30 grand.
The road to 4k will be very long. People are still only just upgrading to 1080p and 3D as it is and wont be willing to shell out the kind of cash needed for a 4k display in a few years.
WAR recon zero
Banned
those "in game" shots are pre-rendered...
It's called in-engine, not in-game for a reason. It uses in-engine assets with better lighting and anti-aliasing. That's is all.
Also if you've played Uncharted 3, you'd realize that there is virtually no difference between the two.
The PS3 only has a 1x BRD. Next gen will have 12-16x each spin streams more info than a DVD. It'll be a huge improvement on that front.
Doesn't the Wii U use a faster drive already?
Ah, okay, That's a huge relief haha.
I bet we see 4K TVs under $1,000 in the next 4 - 5 years
pharmboy044
Member
Doesn't the WiiU have a proprietary hard drive but is having some weird load times for their games?
I wonder if the PS4 will have the ability to install games on the hardrive from a disc like the 360 or is that patented by Microsoft?
Ryoma-Echizen
Member
You're talking about PS3's ancient BD reader. WiiU blue laser optical reader is around 3xfaster than PS3's.
WiiU 22.5MB/s 5x
PS3 9MB/s 2x
I guess the other consoles will include 6-8x versions(I bet 6x with better cache). Above that speed the drive becomes noisier (look your 360's 12x DVD...)
The PS3 has a 2x drive, a 16 x drive will be 8 times as fast (and a 16x drive is unlikely).
At the same time the PS4 will probably have 4 GB, that's 8 times the ram to fill.
So loading times would essentialy stay the same.
Btw: PS3 didn't have installs, cause the drive was "slow". It had installs cause it was a possibility due to every PS3 having a HDD and the 360 having a faster drive.
jeff_rigby
Banned
This is a really big factor in next generation designs and in the life of PS3 and Xbox360. I don't know how it's going to play out and my only clue is Sony investments in China and their getting a certification that is the first step in selling the PS3 in China.
If they sell the PS3 to third world counties it must be cheaper to produce and be more power efficient. In my opinion this requires a total redesign using modern hardware that has power saving features built in and is cheaper to produce. In my opinion the PS3 4K chassis is a placeholder till Forges can economically produce a 22nm PS3 SoC.
One more point, the current PS3 cell encryption key is broken and there is no way to correct this. Selling a game/media console with a broken DRM key in CHina is not going to happen. The only way to fix this is internal to the current Cell and a redesign and new firmware to support a fixed encryption key is likely in any case.
yurinka
Member
Oh shit, it sounds too realistic. And if it finally gets 8GB or RAM it would be worse, it would mean 2x longer loading times than in PS3.
Please noooo, include fucking bigger caches or faster drives please!
I want faster loading times in next gen!
Sony also started to manufacture PS3 in Brazil to sell it there at a way longer prize. They're focusing the emerging markets clearly. And here in the main markets like EU/PAL/Jap it's still above the $200 mark which historically mean a huge increase in sales in previous generations of consoles.
If we add PS+ and future games compatible with Vita+PS3 (Cross buy, Minis, PS1, etc) and some few remaining AAA games, clearly we have PS3 selling during some years more. So I'm pretty sure that it will complete the 10 years plan at least.
I think they'll want to sell it in the future as the really cheap 3D bluray movie player with games as long as possible because remember that they have a lot of investment to recover, and that if even they didn't burned all their PS1, PS2 and PSP profits with PS3, they need to help the finances of the company.
NemesisPrime
Banned
And noisy.
For reference, the rumour prior to the vg247 one mentioned these things which would be relevant to data loading:
PCAV, between 3.3 and 8x BD, most likely clamped to 6x
automatic background caching to HDD
HW zlib decompressor
6x seems reasonable from a noise POV. Although I'm not sure quite how much noisier faster drives are...and maybe these things might have changed if RAM was changed.
PCAV, between 3.3 and 8x BD, most likely clamped to 6x
automatic background caching to HDD
HW zlib decompressor
6x seems reasonable from a noise POV. Although I'm not sure quite how much noisier faster drives are...and maybe these things might have changed if RAM was changed.
Bring on the noise. I won't be able to hear the noise, whilst play with headphones on.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
No there needs to be less noise. I have no idea what they did in between the OG PS3 and the Slims but the whir whir whir WHIR WHIR WHIR wonk noises on the slim are really terrible. Never had that issue with my phat (or maybe it was the jet engine fans that blocked it out).
Bomber Bob
Banned
what they still manufacture optical media????
NemesisPrime
Banned
Sadly yes.
I would not buy an optical media console if I had the choice. My PC doesn't have an optical drive and has been fine for the last few years games wise.
Current rumour suggests speed of up to 16x (in the current dev kits).
That's fine for people that have fast internet but with my 3 Mbit connection I don't want to download all my games.
systemfehler
Member
Cable companies offer a shared bandwith (hope you don't have too many people on your line) now imagine release day and a 20-50GB (next-gen assets) download - your line might be out of capacity and the publisher servers aswell. I don't want to talk about all those cities with less than 8MBit connections...
Sadly we still need a physical medium but offering both ways is certainly no disadvantage for either party. Prices will always stay the same or go up but certainly not go down just because we go all digitally.
I'd rather have physical media given the shitty situation the industry is in pertaining to regulating access to DD in case of console ban.
For context: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497472
For context: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497472
phosphor112
Banned
32x BD doesn't exist.
And for good reason.
Thing would spin so fast it would create it's own gravitational field.
Risk Breaker
Member
I wonder if a PS4 Go! SKU would be well received, less noise, a little bit cheaper and smaller in size.
Obviously I'm counting on them releasing every game on PSN just like with Vita. One would say that such a model would be relatively successful amongst hardcore gamers, but on the other hand the PSP Go was a huge failure so I don't think Sony is very confident about a move like that.
Obviously I'm counting on them releasing every game on PSN just like with Vita. One would say that such a model would be relatively successful amongst hardcore gamers, but on the other hand the PSP Go was a huge failure so I don't think Sony is very confident about a move like that.
Would quite literally be the console around which entertainment revolves.
phosphor112
Banned
I lol'd.
Why does a game need to be that big? Wasn't Skyrim like 6GB?
bigboss370
Member
yeah but imagine a Skyrim with much better graphics, textures, animations, etc.
MGS4 with uncompressed audio took up ~25 GB i think. or was it 50?
iceatcs
Junior Member
There will be no matter what. I suspect we will see more 10gb+ games in next gen ever before.
you confuse the size of the games area etc with the size of the game.
old games where vast and enormous,they fit on 500mb cd....
but you can make a single room with highres rextures etc and be 3gb
Blu Ray offered the possibility to fill the disc with huge datas even if they weren't vital for the game. Uncompressed audio, big videos etc.
It's really nice btw.
360 was limited by the DVD size.
One could think PS3 model will be the norm for next gen, but despite next gen both having a BD drive(most likely), it will focus on downloadable games, and thus will certainly impose big limits of size. I'm 100% sure devs will be more limited in size with the PS4 than with the PS3.
That said the necessary datas will also increase in size, so we'll more likely end up with 10GB+ games nevertheless. Just not with uncompressed audio aund such.
As for drive speed, it's irrelevant since all games will certainly require an installation. The buffering of datas will be handled by the HDD.
It's really nice btw.
360 was limited by the DVD size.
One could think PS3 model will be the norm for next gen, but despite next gen both having a BD drive(most likely), it will focus on downloadable games, and thus will certainly impose big limits of size. I'm 100% sure devs will be more limited in size with the PS4 than with the PS3.
That said the necessary datas will also increase in size, so we'll more likely end up with 10GB+ games nevertheless. Just not with uncompressed audio aund such.
As for drive speed, it's irrelevant since all games will certainly require an installation. The buffering of datas will be handled by the HDD.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
Precisely. I've done a few basic models and levels that far exceed 1TB even. Without compression of course, but still.
Talking about data size, I wonder why no video game company has adopted the Hyper-CD yet. That holds up to 1PB. It could be quite expensive, but it's described as the opposite on the webpage:
Not that it's really needed, Blu-ray should be viable for next generation as well, especially considering BDXL (write-once on 100GB and 128GB, rewritable on 100GB discs). If not, there's the Holographic Versatile Disc and Protein-coated disc, but I doubt that is going to be used any time soon, for consumer applications anyway.
The OP mentions Orbis is gonna have Blu-ray, but not which type.
Hell no Batman AA/AC looks parsecs better at 1080p/60fps on PC.
Not sure if this was thread worthy but
http://dualpixels.com/2012/11/29/ru...y-hardware-and-third-party-softwear-next-gen/
Sony is near the middle end part of their Project Orbis, their next generation PS4. It will not be called Playstation 4, teams have started to call the final name as Omni. Omni will reflect their new hardware and content delivery philosophy. Omni will be very capable of doing modern day graphics compared to a Direct X 11 level of technology like Unreal Engine 4 and Frostbite 2. Compared to Wii U, it is better, but not the biggest leap in the world according to developer friends of mine. The key is the Omniviewer, a thin, lite and slick head mounted autosteroptic display that can track the users head and presents a 360 image view with semi transparent AMOLED screens. This can turn any TV into a 3D TV, as well as add extra augmented reality information outside of the TV screen. One application from an entertainment perspective seeing movies in 2k, 4k or IMAX resolutions as their original size where you have to move your head to look at the full picture being displayed. Can also synch with the Vita. The new controllers weather its the Duo-Moves or the Classic DuoShock will have pulse sensors in the grips for biofeedback gameplay. Plans are a Basic Unit with 160 gigs and just the system with controller at $350-$399 and one with the Omniviewer and a pack-in game for $450-$499. Aims are for a September 2013 launch.
Omni is also part of their philosophy with the new OmniCloud, the new version of Gaktai. This service will not only cloud stream PS1, PS2 and select PS3 games to Playstation Certified devices but will also allow every digital and retail purchase to have access to a copy on the cloud. Basically, you buy one game, you can use it on any Plyastation device. Direct hardware Backwards Compatibility will be available by a $70 $99 dongle that is plugged into the Omni that contains a PS3 on a chip with Cell to run games.
http://dualpixels.com/2012/11/29/ru...y-hardware-and-third-party-softwear-next-gen/
Sony is near the middle end part of their Project Orbis, their next generation PS4. It will not be called Playstation 4, teams have started to call the final name as Omni. Omni will reflect their new hardware and content delivery philosophy. Omni will be very capable of doing modern day graphics compared to a Direct X 11 level of technology like Unreal Engine 4 and Frostbite 2. Compared to Wii U, it is better, but not the biggest leap in the world according to developer friends of mine. The key is the Omniviewer, a thin, lite and slick head mounted autosteroptic display that can track the users head and presents a 360 image view with semi transparent AMOLED screens. This can turn any TV into a 3D TV, as well as add extra augmented reality information outside of the TV screen. One application from an entertainment perspective seeing movies in 2k, 4k or IMAX resolutions as their original size where you have to move your head to look at the full picture being displayed. Can also synch with the Vita. The new controllers weather its the Duo-Moves or the Classic DuoShock will have pulse sensors in the grips for biofeedback gameplay. Plans are a Basic Unit with 160 gigs and just the system with controller at $350-$399 and one with the Omniviewer and a pack-in game for $450-$499. Aims are for a September 2013 launch.
Omni is also part of their philosophy with the new OmniCloud, the new version of Gaktai. This service will not only cloud stream PS1, PS2 and select PS3 games to Playstation Certified devices but will also allow every digital and retail purchase to have access to a copy on the cloud. Basically, you buy one game, you can use it on any Plyastation device. Direct hardware Backwards Compatibility will be available by a $70 $99 dongle that is plugged into the Omni that contains a PS3 on a chip with Cell to run games.
With the name change I don't know if it'll be detrimental to its success but my god, if these rumours are true, I'm stepping off from buying one the first month (if at all).
SolidSnakex
Member
Dual Pixels is one of the biggest bullshit gaming rumor sites out there.
Do a new thread but include also the 720 infos.
Oh :-\
kinda contradits with every rumour though
Seriously, this rumour, given what we know so far, sounds too much of BS.
I have doubts about it also but the craziest thing is the amount of detail in it. For example this is what they say about the game line up
"
Next Gen Uncharted, Next Gen Siren, The Boydguard, Wipeout Omni, Bump In the Night, Killzone 4, Gran Turismo Prologue, Next Gen Media Molecule, Omni Fitness.
Ni-Oh is being completely remade from the ground up in Unreal Engine 4 exclusive for PlayStation Omni.
Square Enix is preparing to bring biofeedback zombie hunting game Judecca to the Omni at launch"
Also a ton of info on xbox/wiiu/vita and other hardware/software. But yea I thought I should ask you guys before making a thread.
"
Next Gen Uncharted, Next Gen Siren, The Boydguard, Wipeout Omni, Bump In the Night, Killzone 4, Gran Turismo Prologue, Next Gen Media Molecule, Omni Fitness.
Ni-Oh is being completely remade from the ground up in Unreal Engine 4 exclusive for PlayStation Omni.
Square Enix is preparing to bring biofeedback zombie hunting game Judecca to the Omni at launch"
Also a ton of info on xbox/wiiu/vita and other hardware/software. But yea I thought I should ask you guys before making a thread.