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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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jschreier

Member
I see it as an example of similar stories that aren't reported on.
It's my interpretation based on what I've seen. In other words, I am asserting it is because the information isn't in a press release that no reporter has thought of it yet, been interested enough, or asked these questions; games journalists are conditioned to only 'report' on things in the PR cycle. I think it's a very reasonable conclusion to reach based on the current state of the medium.
Thank you. I certainly think it's a story worth reporting on and would be of interest to a large audience.

Some advice Jason: stop being so defensive or taking this so personally. I only want you (and all journalists) to be the best you can be.

I don't think it's a reasonable conclusion to reach at all if you read Kotaku, or Polygon's features, or the Penny Arcade Report, or Simon Parkin's work at Eurogamer, or any of the other great outlets/writers that consistently report stories that have nothing to do with press releases or PR cycles.

I don't think an outlet like mine could survive in 2012 if all we did was regurgitate press releases and aggregate other peoples' work. And that sure would be a miserable job!
 

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
geoffdewb3fuq.jpg
 

jschreier

Member
Some inside baseball that you guys may be interested in seeing, if you're curious about how the sausage is made.

Kickstarter project misses goal by $28 over the weekend. I e-mail Kickstarter this morning and get a statement from them, then post that statement: http://kotaku.com/5965126/kickstarter-wont-bend-the-rules-for-project-that-missed-its-goal-by-28

Website DroidGamers takes my quote without sourcing it (other than a tiny little link at the bottom alongside the word "Website referenced:"): http://www.droidgamers.com/index.ph...-by-a-mere-28-kickstarter-wont-bend-the-rules

NeoGAF makes thread with that quote, attributing DroidGamers: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502463

This is the sort of ethically murky situation that we have to deal with every day. In case you were wondering. :D
 
Some inside baseball that you guys may be interested in seeing, if you're curious about how the sausage is made.

Kickstarter project misses goal by $28 over the weekend. I e-mail Kickstarter this morning and get a statement from them, then post that statement: http://kotaku.com/5965126/kickstarter-wont-bend-the-rules-for-project-that-missed-its-goal-by-28

Website DroidGamers takes my quote without sourcing it (other than a tiny little link at the bottom alongside the word "Website referenced:"): http://www.droidgamers.com/index.ph...-by-a-mere-28-kickstarter-wont-bend-the-rules

NeoGAF makes thread with that quote, attributing DroidGamers: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=502463

This is the sort of ethically murky situation that we have to deal with every day. In case you were wondering. :D

NeoGAF user Chubigans, you mean.

Proper attribution is, in all cases, important. :p
 

jschreier

Member
Oh, no worries - I don't blame you, chubigans. You're not a reporter. It's not your job to track down original sources. (As far as I know!) I'm just pointing to an example of some of the sourcing issues that come up every day in this field (and in most media these days, I imagine).
 

Lime

Member
I thought this thread might as well be appropriate: With the news of IGN including Mass Effect 3 in their GOTY nominees list, they actively demonstrate a severe conflict of interest, given Bioware's inclusion of one of the IGN employees in the selected game. This is a perfect example of the seemingly corrupt relationship between pubs/devs/PR and journalists, yet are other gaming journalists and media going to comment on this? Or at least point it out and how it actively deteriorate the reputation of all gaming journalism?

IGN doesn't even make the conflict of interest explicit in their nomination. If any gaming journalists want to be taken seriously as professionals, they need to talk about and exhibit reflection on this "controversy".
 

Lime

Member
IGN's credibility collapsed years ago. What a joke of a website.

It's just weird that no one is commenting on or lambasting IGN for not only breaching journalistic conduct, but also damaging the reputation of game journalists in general. The non-action is telling.
 

Victrix

*beard*
It's just weird that no one is commenting on or lambasting IGN for not only breaching journalistic conduct, but also damaging the reputation of game journalists in general. The non-action is telling.

What is there to say about IGN that hasn't already been said a thousand times?
 

Lime

Member
What is there to say about IGN that hasn't already been said a thousand times?

If I worked at a game journalism site I'd continue reporting/commenting on the most blatant cases in which my "peers" were actively damaging the reputation of my profession. That shit needs to be called out.
 
I guess I'm out of the loop on the IGN in Mass Effect thing, anyone have a summary of why they would be included in the game from the beginning?
 

Lime

Member
I guess I'm out of the loop on the IGN in Mass Effect thing, anyone have a summary of why they would be included in the game from the beginning?

Most blatant example:
Jessica-Chobot-Mass-Effect-3.jpg

Their employee was a character in the game.

There are probably thousands of other examples that we simply don't know about.
 

Shaneus

Member
Most blatant example:
Jessica-Chobot-Mass-Effect-3.jpg

Their employee was a character in the game.

There are probably thousands of other examples that we simply don't know about.
Cheapy D was in Saint's Row 3, but I'm not sure of the extent to which he's a "reviewer" and not just a personality.
 

BeauRoger

Unconfirmed Member
Any response from Geoff himself on this whole mess? It did start with him, and if you type his name in google "geoff keighley doritos" is the second most popular suggestion. He has to say something at some point.
 

Goldmund

Member
Any response from Geoff himself on this whole mess? It did start with him, and if you type his name in google "geoff keighley doritos" is the second most popular suggestion. He has to say something at some point.
If he had sniffed the chance to tell a lie about it that could put a lid on everything, he would have. So far, he would have had to tell the truth, and there's nothing more agonizing for compulsive liars than saying a true word.
 

Ledsen

Member
Any response from Geoff himself on this whole mess? It did start with him, and if you type his name in google "geoff keighley doritos" is the second most popular suggestion. He has to say something at some point.

He wrote on Twitter that he will comment on this eventually. Smart of him to sit it out quietly until it blows over.
 

BeauRoger

Unconfirmed Member
He wrote on Twitter that he will comment on this eventually. Smart of him to sit it out quietly until it blows over.

True, but sooner or later it will come up as he is a "public figure" as far as gaming media goes, so he better have, at the very least, a serviceable answer to give.
 
Lime said:
If I worked at a game journalism site I'd continue reporting/commenting on the most blatant cases in which my "peers" were actively damaging the reputation of my profession. That shit needs to be called out.

They gave the game a 95. I would argue it would be more damning against them if they didn't give one of the games they rated the highest this year a spot on the Best of list.

Now you can argue that they shouldn't have reviewed it in the first place but that ship sailed 8 months ago.

As a counter example, Giant Bomb declined to review Bastion last year because of their relationship with the developer yet they did not exclude it from end of year awards.
 

Tash

Member
I hate crap like this. I hate that Rob left Eurogamer. I think he is brilliant and one of the few writers left with high ethics.

I also haven't seen him write anything else since then..figures. The state of the industry is really sad.

On the other hand, I am supposed to do Marketing and PR for our small indie studio and I hate the fact that everything I might write or say is perceived as false propaganda or word spinning.

Is there any winning if you actually have to do the PR/Marketing side?
 

bernardobri

Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
I hate crap like this. I hate that Rob left Eurogamer. I think he is brilliant and one of the few writers left with high ethics.

I also haven't seen him write anything else since then..figures. The state of the industry is really sad.


On the other hand, I am supposed to do Marketing and PR for our small indie studio and I hate the fact that everything I might write or say is perceived as false propaganda or word spinning.

Is there any winning if you actually have to do the PR/Marketing side?

He actually wrote a great piece about Molyneux's kickstarter. http://effingarcade.tumblr.com/post/36277287313/molyneux-and-fucking-kickstarter
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Speaking of dumb IGN shit.

Why does Forza Horizon have a IGN branded DLC pack?

edit. AND forza 4. WTF?
Forza has always had car packs sponsored by various companies, not only gaming ones.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Gets us more cars and except for on the download page, you never have to look/care about the branding ever again.
 

jschreier

Member
I thought this thread might as well be appropriate: With the news of IGN including Mass Effect 3 in their GOTY nominees list, they actively demonstrate a severe conflict of interest, given Bioware's inclusion of one of the IGN employees in the selected game. This is a perfect example of the seemingly corrupt relationship between pubs/devs/PR and journalists, yet are other gaming journalists and media going to comment on this? Or at least point it out and how it actively deteriorate the reputation of all gaming journalism?

IGN doesn't even make the conflict of interest explicit in their nomination. If any gaming journalists want to be taken seriously as professionals, they need to talk about and exhibit reflection on this "controversy".

Is Jessica Chobot an IGN employee? I'm pretty sure she's a freelancer.

I actually commented on that situation way back in January: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/164384904883347456

Although that tweet was a little unfair. I should have asked Chobot for comment first.
 

Lime

Member
Is Jessica Chobot an IGN employee? I'm pretty sure she's a freelancer.

I actually commented on that situation way back in January: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/164384904883347456

Although that tweet was a little unfair. I should have asked Chobot for comment first.

Is she a freelancer? I always thought she was an IGN employee, even with her own IGN blog and all. Anyway, thanks for reminding me. It must be irritating as a journalist to see your profession get smeared by your peers.
 
It really angers me that gaming journalists can be taken advantage of and can have bias'. Their job is so important, just think, I could buy a game that I might actually not like because IGN was paid to write a good review! This would be a travesty, if only reviewers had no bias' so I can just listen to exactly what they tell me to buy. And now even TV Show HOSTS have products sponsored on their shows? WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!? How am I suppose to know if Keighly is talking to me honestly or reading from a prompter?

WW3 happening right now.
Then again, we don't need his comment. He made sure what he did was well documented and obvious.

Yea! He should be banned from all gaming events and TV channels. Who knows if he could just be feeding us a bunch of lies from DORITOS!?! And all those reviews he wrote? HOW CAN I EVEN TRUST THEM!? This is why he always suggest the Dorito's game on Twitter as his favorite game of all time. Man, us Gaf detectives sure got to the bottom of this one... dodged a bullet!
 

Oersted

Member
Is Jessica Chobot an IGN employee? I'm pretty sure she's a freelancer.

n 2006, Chobot was hired full-time by IGN.com to take over hosting responsibilities for the network's IGN Weekly show which is still running.

I actually commented on that situation way back in January: https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/164384904883347456

"I actually commented" - refers to Twitter update.


Slow clap. gif


Other ways to do it:


In one of the more grotesque instances, IGN host/entertainer Jessica Chobot was included in BioWare’s Mass Effect 3 as a fully-voiced NPC. Chobot had previewed the game on G4TV and written that she was a huge fan of BioWare.

The conflict of interest isn’t hard to spot even though both G4TV and IGN made sure to point out that Chobot would not review the game in an official capacity after its release, as did Chobot herself. *

source
 

jschreier

Member
Yes, Oersted, I commented on Twitter in January. I'm sorry that isn't sufficient enough for you. And are you really trying to prove me wrong by citing a Wikipedia article? I'm pretty sure Chobot is a freelancer because she works for both IGN and G4TV. I can't imagine a full-timer at IGN would also be allowed to host videos for a competing network.

BTW, correct me if I missed some earlier posts, but I am surprised nobody in this thread has talked about these recent Kotaku stories:

http://kotaku.com/5960657/metacriti...that-gamespot-admits-was-factually-inaccurate
http://kotaku.com/5961147/reviewer-apologizes-for-factual-inaccuracies-in-pulled-gamespot-review

Especially since we've been accused of being afraid to cover stories about other people in games media.
 

Oersted

Member
Yes, Oersted, I commented on Twitter in January. I'm sorry that isn't sufficient enough for you. And are you really trying to prove me wrong by citing a Wikipedia article? I'm pretty sure Chobot is a freelancer because she works for both IGN and G4TV. I can't imagine a full-timer at IGN would also be allowed to host videos for a competing network.

Don´t try to turn this into something personal. You are better than this and you know that calling someone out on Twitter as long you are not the pope or something, is not a big deal.


Also;

Console Monster: Thank you very much, Jessica, for agreeing to help us out.

First of all, let's get to know more about you. Tell us a little about yourself

Jessica Chobot: I currently work full time as an on-camera host and as a staff writer for IGN. com Entertainment. My main focus and love is videogames, but I've also covered everything from red carpets to movie junkets to manga and anime reviews to a dating column.

http://www.consolemonster.com/newspost.php?id=0000003699

BTW, correct me if I missed some earlier posts, but I am surprised nobody in this thread has talked about these recent Kotaku stories:

http://kotaku.com/5960657/metacriti...that-gamespot-admits-was-factually-inaccurate
http://kotaku.com/5961147/reviewer-apologizes-for-factual-inaccuracies-in-pulled-gamespot-review



Especially since we've been accused of being afraid to cover stories about other people in games media.

After the whole Keighley-incident you said the reason why Kotaku is not covering it, is that the average Kotaku-reader is not interested and Kotaku is normally not doing media coverage.
 

JABEE

Member
A story I would be interested in is a story on how much pull Metacritic has on gaming outlets and how they determine scoring scales, timeliness of reviews, and whether to include scores in reviews at all?

How big of a commercial incentive do sites have to cater to Metacritic? I know Giant Bomb said in the past that they received copies of games later because their 5 star review system made dissuaded companies from risking their Metacritic score at launch. Also, I know reviews make up a large percentage of page views for traditional gaming websites. How much of those page views are generated from links on Metacritic?

Are there any articles that examine how Metacritic affects the way writers perform their job and what editorial concessions must be made to be listed on the site. Considering bonuses often depend on Metacritic scores, you would have to imagine being eligible to be placed on Metacritic as well as following traditional scoring guidelines would place an outlet in a better position to gain access to review copies.

I know Kotaku isn't part of that mess since they don't give scores, but how exactly does that process work behind the scenes. There have been stories on how it affects publishers and developers. How does it affect the editorial content many consumers use to base their purchases off of and many analysts and investors use to determine which publisher has a title that has the potential to be a cash cow franchise.
 

Oersted

Member
Having some with Jessica Chobot quotes:

1. First that Gamespot bio

Jessica Chobot is IGN's Weekly Wood and Strategize host. She is most famous for licking PSPs, which landed her a job at IGN. She is one of the most respected female game journalists who actually is knowledgeable about video games.

2. Consistent opinions. We are beginning with a quote from "IGN Babes Interview: Jessica Chobot ":

JC: Oh, I am very passionate with my videogames. That, and then the whole downloading all games into the Revolution. We all know that we can mod our Xboxes and do that anyway. So, what are you bringing to the table? Nothing. The thing looks like a PlayStation, to start off with. So that's that.

Later our most respected female game journalist was interviewed by Maxim:
Answer this however you interpret it: What is the sexiest console?
If we're defining "sexy" on its looks alone, then I would have to choose the Nintendo Wii. The PS3 looks like a grill and the Xbox 360's shape and weird matte finish acquire dirt like no one's business. The Nintendo Wii just looks slick. Plus, it glows such a lovely shade of blue—how can you possibly resist?


3. We come to the most fun part.

First it started here:

The conflict of interest isn’t hard to spot even though both G4TV and IGN made sure to point out that Chobot would not review the game in an official capacity after its release, as did Chobot herself. *

Update:

* The above two paragraphs have been edited for clarity and links have been added that were left out of the original copy.

I originally described Chobot as a “writer” for IGN. She has pointed out on Twitter that she is in fact a host/entertainer. I have seen blog posts by her, as well as videos, posted at IGN in the past – hence the term “writer.” However, I did not claim she was a reviewer for either site, only that the sites in question said she would not review Mass Effect 3. See the links to those sites above for quotations.


The tweet he is referring to:

Not a writer for IGN or reviewer for G4.I'm a host/entertainer. This should be called: How Erik Kane should fact check. http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkai...how-video-game-journalism-went-off-the-rails/ …

Before that, Chobot did, like Geoff Keighley, a interview answering questions about videogames journalism. Some quotes:

Jessica Chobot: I currently work full time as an on-camera host and as a staff writer for IGN. com Entertainment. My main focus and love is videogames, but I've also covered everything from red carpets to movie junkets to manga and anime reviews to a dating column.

JC: I kind of already answered this in the first question, but boiled down to the barest of bones: I report on videogames and the videogame culture/lifestyle.

JC: Many people would reference the infamous "PSP lick" picture as the starting point. I would refer to that as more of a crossroads where I could have either vanished into internet obscurity or ended up along the path that I'm traveling now. Therefore, I like to think of my starting point as being a combination of writing for Brian Crecente of Kotaku fame and hanging out with the IGN crowd in Tokyo during TGS of 2005. That face-to-face time with the IGN editorial staff and the developing videoteam proved to be invaluable to landing my current job.

JC: Working for Crecente in exchange for games helped me to develop a voice within my writing and get used to things such as deadlines, how to embed an article, how to deal with both good and bad reader responses, etc... Hanging out with IGN in Tokyo gave me the chance to show them my personality and knowledge of the videogame genre first hand and eventually led me to freelancing with them on IGN Insider, both as a contributing writer and as a video host. From there it was a short while before it became my full-time gig.

CM: What things are essential to do well in games journalism?

JC: My biggest gripe (and what I often see certain game journalists do) is to avoid the fanboy mentality as much as possible. You HAVE to be as objective as you can when reporting on these games, whether you're giving it a good or bad review.

CM: Finally, do you have any advice for our readers on what to do to get their reviews or articles published?

JC: Hold yourself to a high standard. Like I said previously: avoid the fanboy mentality. Give examples and back up your opinions. Do your research. Most of all, keep plugging away. You never know who might be reading your stuff!
 
speaking of metacritic. Something I just realized recently, but 1up had requested to have their reviews off of metacritic due to how they fuck with their letter scores.
 
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