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[Tagg9]

Tell me what aspect of the simple comment 'Other than the mediocre graphics, I think some of the additions look great. Still my most anticipated game on my radar' do you believe should be changed so that a bunch of thin-skined fanboys don't freak the fuck out at the drop of a hat?

Pretty sure it was this condescending comment that actually started the attacks:

"The hell"? Ah the painfully forced pretend surprise. I've actually played games all generation, 'cause the only way this is impressive is perhaps if I played none at all. I've played games like Viva Pinata, like Banjo, like Ratchet. I know what next-gen games should look like. This game is a up-res Wii title, with some basic next-gen shaders and effects in place. The geometry and texture work is barely up to standard. Character models that are laughable. I mean, shit, it's fine if you think it looks great, but let it go that it's some shocking thing that others don't.

 

[Always-honest]

I'm gonna make this extremely simple to understand, Amir0x. You get the response you get not because of what you say, but because how you say it. It's been that way forever. Very rarely does anyone actually argue with (or necessarily even disagree with) the specific arguments you are making. It's the language. People bristle at it, feel attacked by it, and feel the need to attack back. It's antagonistic at a fundamental level, and it has virtually NOTHING to do with the opinion, and everything to do with the words used to compose it. (This isn't in response to your previous post specifically, though.)

On topic, obviously Pikmin 3 shows its Wii roots. The environmental skeleton is extremely low-poly, and you can see it in every rock and tree trunk. There is a ton of polish on top of that, though. The lighting and shadows are exceptional, the foliage is very well made, and the new enemy models are smooth, shiny, and effect-laden.

It is trivial for me to understand how someone could be more impressed by Pikmin 3 than Banjo Kazooie, since as a PACKAGE it is more visually pleasing. This Banjo shot, for example, is positively vile. And features some low-res ground textures that I'd say are worse than Pikmin 3's, actually. While you can likely isolate plenty of places where Banjo succeeds on a purely technical level, though, it's basically irrelevant if it doesn't come together.

And Pikmin 3 comes together. It is a cohesive and beautiful aesthetic that manages to transcend its technical roots. For this reason, many do not use words like "mediocre" without context to describe it, and bristle when others do. It's a matter of priorities, does a person look at the visuals as a whole, or focus more on the individual components? To each their own, but when you go through Pikmin with a laundry list of complaints about every technical aspect, you will receive disagreements not from people who don't think those aspects exist, but rather who do not draw the same conclusions from them that you do.

Again, look at this demo. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=3ioO6xRAa_c&desktop_uri=/watch?v=3ioO6xRAa_c&gl=NL. These ground textures are more detailed than MOST current gen games have showed us. U can also see a lot of small chuncks of standing grass. Now imo it makes sense that there isn't any high Kameo grass on the areas where the Pikmin must walk cause you will loose sight of too many of them. In other areas the textures are to flat. So it's a bit hit or miss in that regard.
I rarely see buttersmooth shadows as i see in the latest Pikmin 3 video. In fact, i can't remember any this gen on any console.
Were Pikmin really obviously shows its Wii roots is in the geometry. That is just very clearly visible.

Having said this all, i do think it looks really impressive. I suspect they took the time to make some final adjustments to really make it a golden seal of Nintendo experience. At 720P and 60 fps. Can only hope they leave some room for a bit of AA.

 

[Amir0x]

Pretty sure it was this condescending comment that actually started the attacks:

That might be an understandable interpretation if the comment you quoted wasn't a response to multiple people who started freaking out from the original comment I made. As always, people just try to absolve everyone else of responsibility in these things. The reason I responded angrily was because of the people once again overreacting to the idea of negativity with just silliness. "is this post serious?" "the hell!?" These comments are just unnecessary if someone is trying to have a real conversation.

Of course I'm going to state my opinion forcefully after such posts; these individuals clearly didn't think I was serious for some reason.

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter. I love Pikmin and I can't wait for this game; it just looks mediocre.

 

[Tathanen]

That might be an understandable interpretation if the comment you quoted wasn't a response to multiple people who started freaking out from the original comment I made. As always, people just try to absolve everyone else of responsibility in these things. The reason I responded angrily was because of the people once again overreacting to the idea of negativity with just silliness. "is this post serious?" "the hell!?" These comments are just unnecessary if someone is trying to have a real conversation.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my reaction was to that second post. Specifically to the "character models that are laughable" bit. "Extremely mediocre" as an overall quantifier sounded ridiculous, but when you went into detail it became clear that you really DID mean it as a generalism. It wasn't just the environment, you went on to list how you thought basically everything was mediocre. And this is where you lose me. The character models look amazing, the crab and moth in the new trailer in particular. The lighting and shadows in the final lilly-pad part of the trailer are also top-of-the line.

There's very little to say in retort to claims like that, when my eyes just literally see completely different things than yours.

 

[eternalb]

As always, people just try to absolve everyone else of responsibility in these things.

Heh, right, it's always everyone else's fault and not yours. I don't even think it's entirely about this single incident, but your long history of them.

 

[Socreges]

"extremely medicore", not merely "mediocre"

If you can't realize how aggressive language like that is going to draw responses like "The hell?" in response, and will continue to double down and whine relentlessly about what a victim you are and misrepresent the obnoxious posts that you've made, then you're a lost cause and will continue to shit up threads like you've always done.

 

[zroid]

Can mediocrity even exist in extremes?

Spoiler

Maybe if every aspect of a larger whole is perfectly mediocre

 

[Amir0x]

Heh, right, it's always everyone else's fault and not yours. I don't even think it's entirely about this single incident, but your long history of them.

Address what is being said in the topic itself, not some long history of perceived slights. If people did this, so much trouble would be avoided.

It wasn't just the environment, you went on to list how you thought basically everything was mediocre. And this is where you lose me. The character models look amazing, the crab and moth in the new trailer in particular. The lighting and shadows in the final lilly-pad part of the trailer are also top-of-the line.

There's very little to say in retort to claims like that, when my eyes just literally see completely different things than yours.

I said the lighting was a nice improvement in a comment in this topic. The enemy models look fine, the models I'm talking about are the ones for the player characters and the Pikmin themselves. They've simply failed to evolve in a way that says substantive improvement, as far as I can measure it.

But of course if that was my only problem, I'd hardly call it 'extremely' mediocre.

"extremely medicore", not merely "mediocre"

If you can't realize how aggressive language like that is going to draw responses like "The hell?" in response, and will continue to double down and whine relentlessly about what a victim you are and misrepresent the obnoxious posts that you've made, then you're a lost cause and will continue to shit up threads like you've always done.

The word "extremely" is going to cause you to lose your shit? Really? If you can't see how ridiculous it is to overreact because someone emphasized the level of mediocrity one notch too high for your tastes, then you are beyond the guidance of simple common sense. But you've been doing this same derail for ages, Socreges. As I've said before, if you don't like what I say, skip the posts. But address the points being made, not the individual. I don't know how much trouble would be avoided if everyone just addressed the WORDS being said, and not the perception or how much people don't like who is saying it.

Anyway, have to head out for real now.

 

[Neiteio]

People were probably more irked by the implication that if one thinks Pikmin 3 looks good, then they must've not have played any current-gen games, and/or they're a fanboy. But whatever, postings on the Internet, blah blah blah.

Smooth over the bottoms of rocks and trunks so they properly blend into the ground, Nintendo, and call it a day!

 

[Krabboss]

F that noise, Amir0x is right on the money. Everything about the game looks current gen (as in, what we've been seeing for a while) except for textures and geometry.

 

[Jacobi]

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter. I love Pikmin and I can't wait for this game; it just looks mediocre.

I agree. As a guy who also plays PC from time to time, the positive aspects of P3's graphics like a few enemy models, some nice effects, and so on, bringt it on an average, but nothing special graphical level... And I'm the biggest Pikmin Fan I know, I've got Pikmin wallpapers and all that shit on my ipad...

Remember there are NINE years between Pikmin 2 and Pikmin 3!

Always hoped Pikmin 3 was gonna be more like these wallpapers:

 

[eternalb]

Address what is being said in the topic itself, not some long history of perceived slights. If people did this, so much trouble would be avoided.

Unlikely, as it hasn't stopped it from cropping up as the result of a large amount of your posts.

 

[Neiteio]

F that noise, Amir0x is right on the money. Everything about the game looks current gen (as in, what we've been seeing for a while) except for textures and geometry.

You're not going to see anything that looks next-gen (in the 720/PS4 sense) on WiiU.

 

[Self_Destructive]

It's a gameplay and artistic decision for them to not cram too much detail into the scenery so the pikmin are more easily visible.

It looks on par with my expectations of an upscaled Wii game given extra polish here and there.

That said, I love the gfx style of these games. Looks great in HD!

 

[Krabboss]

You're not going to see anything that looks next-gen (in the 720/PS4 sense) on WiiU.

Irrelevant, isn't it? If it looks like what we've been seeing for years, what's with all the excitement for its visuals?

Really, the sort of realistic art style of the Pikmin games is to its detriment here. The low resolution ground textures just look crummy. It wouldn't really be a problem if it had a more stylised look, like Nintendo's other IPs.

My point here is I think the Wii U will have some fantastic looking games, but this isn't one of them.

 

[Neiteio]

Irrelevant, isn't it? If it looks like what we've been seeing for years, what's with all the excitement for its visuals?

Really, the sort of realistic art style of the Pikmin games is to its detriment here. The low resolution ground textures just look crummy. It wouldn't really be a problem if it had a more stylised look, like Nintendo's other IPs.

My point here is I think the Wii U will have some fantastic looking games, but this isn't one of them.

I wasn't disagreeing with you.

 

[Tathanen]

the models I'm talking about are the ones for the player characters and the Pikmin themselves. They've simply failed to evolve in a way that says substantive improvement, as far as I can measure it.

Well this seems... difficult to measure. They are so small. In a swarm of 100 little Pikmin, what kind of evolution are you looking for? I've played the game in person, the Pikmin all look very roundy and smooth with nice edge lighting going on. And Olimar is just a circle on a stubby little body, and he looks nice and smooth now too. It seems like a really weird thing to single out as "laughable," which is an extremely harsh thing to say, when A) it's virtually impossible to even discern an improvement in video since they're all so small, and B) they seem to me from my experience to have been improved about as much as they could reasonably be within the confines of the Pikmin art style.

So wow would you improve the Pikmin models? They are bright and colorful and round now, what else is there to do without them leaving the art style entirely? It must be something pretty significant, if they really look laughable to you now.

 

[Socreges]

The word "extremely" is going to cause you to lose your shit? Really? If you can't see how ridiculous it is to overreact because someone emphasized the level of mediocrity one notch too high for your tastes, then you are beyond the guidance of simple common sense. But you've been doing this same derail for ages, Socreges. As I've said before, if you don't like what I say, skip the posts. But address the points being made, not the individual. I don't know how much trouble would be avoided if everyone just addressed the WORDS being said, and not the perception or how much people don't like who is saying it.

Who lost their shit? Again, you posted aggressively (as you do) and got the appropriate replies. You then became even more aggressive, continually misrepresent what you've said, and then wonder how it could have ever come to this!

I did skip your post. But when your long, tiresome replies and arguments begin to take over threads, I'd like to put in my own two cents. It happens constantly. I thought you getting caught with your bullshit (editing posts) would make you less proud and more able to concede, but it's possible that your distortions and mind-numbing habits have gotten even worse.

 

[Krabboss]

Who lost their shit? Again, you posted aggressively (as you do) and got the appropriate replies. You then became even more aggressive, continually misrepresent what you've said, and then wonder how it could have ever come to this!

I did skip your post. But when your long, tiresome replies and arguments begin to take over threads, I'd like to put in my own two cents. It happens constantly. I thought you getting caught with your bullshit (editing posts) would make you less proud and more able to concede, but it's possible that your distortions and mind-numbing habits have gotten even worse.

I think you're taking him too literally with "lose your shit" here, like people did when he said "extremely."

I don't think he's being particularly condescending or abrasive. The reactions to his post seems about on par to the responses you might get for saying something negative about a game in its OT. He said the game didn't look so hot and people were like "How can you think that are you BLIND?!" and he responded accordingly. No biggie.

 

[eternalb]

I don't think he's being particularly condescending or abrasive.

Uh-huh. How about how he purports to be an expert while anyone who disagrees "played none at all"

I've actually played games all generation, 'cause the only way this is impressive is perhaps if I played none at all.

It's so damn condescending.

 

[Krabboss]

Uh-huh. How about how he purports to be an expert while anyone who disagrees "played none at all"



It's so damn condescending.

Which came after people told him to get his eyes checked because he'd have to be a blind dummy to think this game don't look gorgeous. It wasn't a big deal.

 

[Socreges]

I think you're taking him too literally with "lose your shit" here, like people did when he said "extremely."

You understand how this sentence is completely meaningless, right?

I don't think he's being particularly condescending or abrasive. The reactions to his post seems about on par to the responses you might get for saying something negative about a game in its OT. He said the game didn't look so hot and people were like "How can you think that are you BLIND?!" and he responded accordingly. No biggie.

....Amir0x alt?

 

[Gummb]

Can we stop attacking eachother? Where is a mod to get this back on track? Ami, your words are often deadly accurate and come accross as condescending because it appears like you believe you alone possess reason. For everyone else hurt by ami, get over it. He clearly wont change, but maybe you can.

 

[eternalb]

Which came after people told him to get his eyes checked because he'd have to be a blind dummy to think this game don't look gorgeous. It wasn't a big deal.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[dwu8991]

hudless game world hopefully, fingers crossed !

 

[Nekki]

Whoa, so much controversy over so little. I don't see what's wrong with the game. Sure, it could look better, but that could be said for most games.

Not every game has to be a technical marvel, and if the gameplay's as excellent as pikmin is assured to be.. well..

 

[zroid]

You guys really like arguing about graphics, don't you

 

[Krabboss]

You understand how this sentence is completely meaningless, right?

Brother, it's lucky you're in company or such condescension would not stand. You'd get the verbal whip cracked on your big booty til it was red raw, I tell ya.

Nah, it ain't meaningless. It means you're taking the flavour he sprinkles on his sentences to heart. When he said "lose your shit" he meant "you reacted unfavourably to what I said because I used an adjective."

And I'm no alt. I'm just the boss of all krabs.

 

[grimshawish]

Maybe this thread needs locked...gone a very bad place...
Its fucking Pikmin people...and its coming back...

And I think everyone arguing is excited about the game :/

 

[eternalb]

Nah, it ain't meaningless. It means you're taking the flavour he sprinkles on his sentences to heart. When he said "lose your shit" he meant "you reacted unfavourably to what I said because I used an adjective."

Ami shouldn't need a translator to see through the hyperbole.

 

[Always-honest]

Maybe this thread needs locked...gone a very bad place...
Its fucking Pikmin people...and its coming back...

And I think everyone arguing is excited about the game :/

True. But it's also a forum. Discussion is unavoidable.
But i guess this one is leading nowhere.

 

[Socreges]

Brother, it's lucky you're in company or such condescension would not stand. You'd get the verbal whip cracked on your big booty til it was red raw, I tell ya.

Nah, it ain't meaningless. It means you're taking the flavour he sprinkles on his sentences to heart. When he said "lose your shit" he meant "you reacted unfavourably to what I said because I used an adjective."

And I'm no alt. I'm just the boss of all krabs.

Yes. Yes, it's meaningless. You can't take the word "extremely" too literally. It means what it means. It's an adjective that he chose to use in order to communicate his impression (and potentially elicit a reaction?). And you can't take "lose your shit" too literally unless you actually think he means that people are shitting their pants. He's exaggerating people's reactions.

Not much else to say. It's been fun, guys.

[edit]

Oh btw Pikmin 3's graphics are disappointing. I still think it looks great in some respects and is saved by some excellent art direction, but Nintendo could certainly do better.

 

[Hero of Legend]

I think reflections are in during gameplay, go back to where the crab comes out of the water and look at the water as the camera pans.

 

[Mlatador]

This game is gonna be sooo good. I looks fantastic, too.

Also... pointer controls ftw!

 

[StreetsAhead]

So, Pink Pikmin, huh? I wonder if it'll just be Pink & Rock?
Or, will they go for more types? I hope there are no really late game types you don't get much chance to use.

 

[eternalb]

So, Pink Pikmin, huh? I wonder if it'll just be Pink & Rock?
Or, will they go for more types? I hope there are no really late game types you don't get much chance to use.

Not just Pink, but Flying Pink Pikmin!

http://youtu.be/4-MV73GU84Q

I am really curious to see how they are incorporated into the game.

 

[CoconutTank]

So, Pink Pikmin, huh? I wonder if it'll just be Pink & Rock?
Or, will they go for more types? I hope there are no really late game types you don't get much chance to use.

:3

It'd be neat if Pink Pikmin could air lift treasure and resources, but it'd also be interesting if they can carry other Pikmin and/or captains around in the air as well. If they do fly, or at least continue flying after being thrown in the air, they might be really good for combat if they can attack from above, since doing so lets them avoid being within immediate attack range of most big monsters, and most big monsters have weak points that are higher up on themselves. Assuming they have those kinds of advantages, they're probably going to be weaker in terms of raw power (such as 2 Pink Pikmin having the carrying strength of 1 normal Pikmin and dealing less damage than Yellow/Blue Pikmin).

For those that were able to play the Pikmin 3 demos, could you tell if the angle/distance for throwing Rock Pikmin was any different compared to say Red Pikmin?

 

[Gahiggidy]

To everyone...

You must watch this from the eShop feed. So much more crisp and detailed than the YouTube versions.

 

[The Boat]

Can mediocrity even exist in extremes?

Spoiler

Maybe if every aspect of a larger whole is perfectly mediocre

I like my pizza extra medium.

 

[StreetsAhead]

:3

It'd be neat if Pink Pikmin could air lift treasure and resources, but it'd also be interesting if they can carry other Pikmin and/or captains around in the air as well. If they do fly, or at least continue flying after being thrown in the air, they might be really good for combat if they can attack from above, since doing so lets them avoid being within immediate attack range of most big monsters, and most big monsters have weak points that are higher up on themselves. Assuming they have those kinds of advantages, they're probably going to be weaker in terms of raw power (such as 2 Pink Pikmin having the carrying strength of 1 normal Pikmin and dealing less damage than Yellow/Blue Pikmin).

For those that were able to play the Pikmin 3 demos, could you tell if the angle/distance for throwing Rock Pikmin was any different compared to say Red Pikmin?

Oh goodness, I didn't think about the possibility of carrying other Pikmin or the captains. You can see in the Game Explain video where they talk about the stalk on the flaoting jellyfish monster being out of reach of regular Pikmin, but maybe within reach of flying ones. I would bet money on them being weaker.

I did think only the flowered ones could fly after the e3 trailer, but looking back I see that that is not the case.

Now I wonder if the captains will get jet packs. Haha.

Also interesting is GE's hypothesis that we may have only seen 1 or 2 levels and both likely from challenge mode rather than story mode.

 

[Medalion]

I am watching the NIntendo Direct on the Wii-U Eshop on my HDTV

The game looks so much better there than on my computer monitor via youtube

 

[Rentahamster]

This might be considered an insult, but our brains are similar.

This is how I feel.

It's a prettier version of a series I already find pretty.

Yep. Graphics aren't my main concern for a Pikmin game. It already looks good enough as far as I'm concerned, but I realize that others have a higher priority on graphics.

When I think Pikmin, I think good gameplay, involving strategy, and time/resource management that comes together for an entertaining experience.

I'll give Nintendo the benefit of the doubt that all of that is still there; I'm just concerned about difficulty nerfs in the name of accessibility.

Arguing about graphics at this stage is kinda pointless.

 

[Neiteio]

I want Nipple Pikmin that lactate nectar to power up the other Pikmin.

SUCKLE, MY MINIONS.

 

[Pseudo_Sam]

I want Nipple Pikmin that lactate nectar to power up the other Pikmin.

SUCKLE, MY MINIONS.

Too easy

 

[Neiteio]

Too easy

Ha! Commendable strength...

 

[Hero of Legend]

WOW, I was watching the end part where you're on the lilypad and just look at this! :O

The lighting, the depth of field, the shadows, god I'm really considering taking back everything negative I've said about the graphics.

Also, at that part you can see dynamic shadows!

Didn't think they'd do that due to the changing time in the game!

 

[daakusedo]

The yellow pikmins in the cave is the thing I keep thinking of.
That's not a color I like much, but in this situation and how the lighting alter their color and the contrast with their eyes, it gives them a lot of credibility.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

was this posted?
Not a new video but the guy knows how to play the game and makes it really fun to watch

Bitblock Pikmin 3

Also shows some of the improvements from the previous games, like streamlined automation and a 3D cursor, as well as nectar being slightly different and being able to highlight objects.
Most importantly it just looks really FUN to play!

 

[Always-honest]

was this posted?
Not a new video but the guy knows how to play the game and makes it really fun to watch

Bitblock Pikmin 3

Also shows some of the improvements from the previous games, like streamlined automation and a 3D cursor, as well as nectar being slightly different and being able to highlight objects.
Most importantly it just looks really FUN to play!

Yeah i posted it. Especially to show better groundtextures and small chuncks of standing grass.

 

[Dereck]

was this posted?
Not a new video but the guy knows how to play the game and makes it really fun to watch

Bitblock Pikmin 3

Thank yoooouuuu