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[MetaCircular]

The idea that games should be enjoyable to everyone seems like a trumped-up strawman to me.

What people in this thread are saying is that they like most of the aesthetic and mechanical choices in Dark Souls, but would prefer if there was, say, a checkpoint right before boss fights to limit repetition (e.g. a screen that asks if you'd like to try the boss again or go back to a bonfire).

Being more inclined to play a future Souls game (or perhaps an aesthetically and mechanically similar game with a different name, so the Souls monicker stays "pure") if it had some optional assist like that doesn't seem at all close to saying every game should be for everyone. It also doesn't read like a demand, or entitlement. It's simply a reasonable statement of preferences, and I don't see why it merits so much derision.

 

[RangerX]

As has already been stated I have no problem with From making the underlying systems more understandable. That makes sense, some of dark souls secrets are maddeningly obscure. Touch the difficulty of the gameplay or the the combat and I'll have a problem. Also the art style of the souls games are majestic. please keep this relatively similar.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

difficulty is entirely subjective. What may be difficult you may be really easy for me and vice versa and when it come to videogames neither is mutually exclusive. both types of players should be able to enjoy your game.

No they most certainly should not.

They can get better at the game or move on.


Dark Souls has difficulty levels anyway.

It starts out on "normal" and when you beat it, new game plus is more challenging.

 

[denshuu]

Oh wow I cracked up so hard reading that sequence.

What a great way to start my day!

Seriously, every time I think Dark Souls looks interesting, I read posts from Dark Souls players like Serra and TUSR and am immediately turned off by it. I've never seen a community so insecure and up its own ass in my life. It's pathetic.

 

[CitizenCope]

I'm all for the pussification of this game if that is indeed what is happening. Sorry hardcore bros. I haven't even dabbled in the first two games because of what I've read about the difficulty. I'm all for a weak sauce DS2.

 

[Misterinenja]

I'm all for the pussification of this game if that is indeed what is happening. Sorry hardcore bros. I haven't even dabbled in the first two games because of what I've read about the difficulty. I'm all for a weak sauce DS2.

How about actually try them before potentially ruining it for others because of your stupid prejudices?

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

I'm all for the pussification of this game if that is indeed what is happening. Sorry hardcore bros. I haven't even dabbled in the first two games because of what I've read about the difficulty. I'm all for a weak sauce DS2.

Then stick to Assassin's Creed. Sounds like it's more your speed.

 

[CitizenCope]

How about actually try them before potentially ruining it for others because of your stupid prejudices?

No thanks! I'm part of old GAF and I blame that on why I'm starting to suck at some of these games. I just don't have it like I used to. Thanks for understanding.

 

[Phonomezer]

I'm all for the pussification of this game if that is indeed what is happening. Sorry hardcore bros. I haven't even dabbled in the first two games because of what I've read about the difficulty. I'm all for a weak sauce DS2.

They aren't difficult games once you understand the systems in place. You should give them a try, at least Dark Souls.

 

[wutwutwut]

I'm all for the pussification of this game if that is indeed what is happening. Sorry hardcore bros. I haven't even dabbled in the first two games because of what I've read about the difficulty. I'm all for a weak sauce DS2.

Dark Souls at least is not a very hard game for a cautious player.

 

[Misterinenja]

No thanks! I'm part of old GAF and I blame that on why I'm starting to suck at some of these games. I just don't have it like I used to. Thanks for understanding.

There's always Farmville!

 

[CitizenCope]

Then stick to Assassin's Creed. Sounds like it's more your speed.

LOL Outland. I couldn't even finish that. Well that may have been because I didn't want to, I forget.
Seriously MetaCircular said it all for me.

 

[UrbanRats]

I'm all for the pussification of this game if that is indeed what is happening. Sorry hardcore bros. I haven't even dabbled in the first two games because of what I've read about the difficulty. I'm all for a weak sauce DS2.

That is actually half the problem with this franchise.
The way the press (and the gamers) hyped up its difficulty to a parody level.
Yes they are challenging, cryptic and punishing games, but with a little bit of online reading they can get quite easy to handle, the same cannot be said for most of the NES/SNES era monsters.

 

[params7]

Dark Souls at least is not a very hard game for a cautious player.

Yeah, this, even for Demon's. The most difficult level, or the level I died the most in Demon's Souls was....1-1.

Basically I figured out you 1) can't rush into new areas, and 2) you can't lower you shield in front of the enemy until you figure out its weaknesses. In world 4 I killed all of the world bosses in my first attempt.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

LOL Outland. I couldn't even finish that. Well that may have been because I didn't want to, I forget.
Seriously MetaCircular said it all for me.

I'm still trying to beat Outland but just because a game is difficult, doesn't mean I want the dev to compromise their vision just so that I can pound through it without being challenged.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Isn't this contrary to the first game's "statement"?

It's as if they're admitting they went about the first one wrong.

I guess they saw Skyrim getting all them GOTY awards and want some of that prestige. Shame.

 

[Parakeetman]

Yeah, this, even for Demon's. The most difficult level, or the level I died the most in Demon's Souls was....1-1.

Basically I figured out you 1) can't rush into new areas, and 2) you can't lower you shield in front of the enemy until you figure out its weaknesses. In world 4 I killed all of the world bosses in my first attempt.

But can you beat the game without a shield? And I dont mean running around with the drake sword in Dark Souls.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Isn't this contrary to the first game's "statement"?

It's as if they're admitting they went about the first one wrong.

I guess they saw Skyrim getting all them GOTY awards and want some of that prestige. Shame.

They would love it if Dark Souls had sold as well as Skyrim but I'd like to think they are smart enough and believe enough in their IP that they won't turn Dark Souls II into something it isn't.

In this case, a shallow, meaningless, inclusive mess.

 

[params7]

But can you beat the game without a shield? And I dont mean running around with the drake sword in Dark Souls.

And why would you do that? Why even play any game that doesn't have 'Press X to win' as objective. And in Demon's you can pick the magician class and do very well again, no shield needed. Don't know about Dark, I've only played melee in this game.

 

[Totobeni]

:/

I don't like the sound of this.

Dark Souls was already easier and more new comers friendly than Demon's Souls,hell the only way to make Dark Souls really hard for you is to play offline and use melee only.

 

[Orayn]

Isn't this contrary to the first game's "statement"?

It's as if they're admitting they went about the first one wrong.

I guess they saw Skyrim getting all them GOTY awards and want some of that prestige. Shame.

No? They said they wanted to make Dark Souls more accessible and player-friendly, and they accomplished that through better game design. Why would you assume they're talking about dumbing it down this time?

 

[Parakeetman]

And why would you do that? Why even play any game that doesn't have 'Press X to win' as objective. And in Demon's you can pick the magician class and do very well again, no shield needed. Don't know about Dark, I've only played melee in this game.

No its just because Ive noticed everyone who goes patting themselves on the back always seems to be one who uses a shield.

Its quite interesting really.

Its always the one stop solution folks give out USE A SHIELD LOL. And to use something you have said, this becomes the 'Press X to win' item so to speak. Instead of folks actually telling people go try out what works for you. It always boils down to SHIELDSHIELDSHIELDSHIELD

 

[params7]

No its just because Ive noticed everyone who goes patting themselves on the back always seems to be one who uses a shield.

Its quite interesting really.

I won't artificially create a challenge for myself. My aim is to beat the game. The people who do solo runs at level 1 might be more into self-handicapped runs.

 

[Red Liquorice]

I'm all for the pussification of this game if that is indeed what is happening. Sorry hardcore bros. I haven't even dabbled in the first two games because of what I've read about the difficulty. I'm all for a weak sauce DS2.

So you're not actually interested in playing the games in the series, you just want in because you think you're missing out on something popular.

 

[Dyno]

I'm sure the fights will be just as hard or even harder. That is where the true essence of the Souls lay. But what if instead of getting a line or two and needing to go to the internet to put the story together they had a few ten page books scattered about a la Elder Scrolls to give you a better grasp of the story while you're in the game?

I'm not saying they are going to do that but that is one of the ways the game can be made more accessable without dumbing down the experience. There are lots of ways to open up a world, its lore, and the players place in it without sacrificing the difficulty.

 

[ced]

This forum is full of the biggest over-reactions on the internet, only a conspiracy forum comes close.

There is nothing wrong with making the stats, effects etc more clear.

 

[params7]

I'm sure the fights will be just as hard or even harder. That is where the true essence of the Souls lay. But what if instead of getting a line or two and needing to go to the internet to put the story together they had a few ten page books scattered about a la Elder Scrolls to give you a better grasp of the story while you're in the game?

Yeah, something like that is what I think will happen in Dark Souls 2.

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

This forum is full of the biggest over-reactions on the internet, only a conspiracy forum comes close.

There is nothing wrong with making the stats, effects etc more clear.

If that's all that it is...then fine. Great even.

 

[Parakeetman]

I'm sure the fights will be just as hard or even harder. That is where the true essence of the Souls lay. But what if instead of getting a line or two and needing to go to the internet to put the story together they had a few ten page books scattered about a la Elder Scrolls to give you a better grasp of the story while you're in the game?

I'm not saying they are going to do that but that is one of the ways the game can be made more accessable without dumbing down the experience. There are lots of ways to open up a world, its lore, and the players place in it without sacrificing the difficulty.

Actually the fights got easier in Dark vs. Demon's. They changed the damage system too so that damage taken both the player and enemies during an animation is no longer increased. That was one thing I noticed about Dark Souls. Since in Demons you had to be careful about your attacks as getting hit in mid animation was pretty painful, vs being in a neutral stance. Also weapons seemed to be less effected by the physical surroundings. It still existed but just did not seem as refined. Am guessing they toned it down since folks must have complained that it was overkill.

 

[NekoToshiro]

But we like it how it is. It sucks when a good game changes to make it easier for other. Plus I enjoy a game were stuff isn't clear, its so hard to find them like that. I like that there is no map. I found an area and monsters my friends have never seen before. The only problem I have with the game is the frame rate, but it did help me when fighting

Spoiler

Okami goddess dog with her giant sword

till I got out from under her and died.

 

[TheMink]

So you're not actually interested in playing the games in the series, you just want in because you think you're missing out on something popular.

Thats exactally what it is. People see that a huge amount of gaf is raving about Demons/Dark souls, they say "i wantz to play toooo!"

Then they go and be adventurer two

And cry and scream the game is to hard, and that it should be made easier.

Bunch a punk ass gamers. Play a different freaking game dammit! This one is like this, changing it would be a great sin.

Spoiler

i love that comic

 

[Orayn]

Actually the fights got easier in Dark vs. Demon's. They changed the damage system too so that damage taken both the player and enemies during an animation is no longer increased. That was one thing I noticed about Dark Souls. Since in Demons you had to be careful about your attacks as getting hit in mid animation was pretty painful, vs being in a neutral stance. Also weapons seemed to be less effected by the physical surroundings. It still existed but just did not seem as refined. Am guessing they toned it down since folks must have complained that it was overkill.

Dark Souls definitely has critical hits when players hit enemies during certain animations. Player vs. Player has them as well.

 

[Verelios]

:/

I don't like the sound of this.

Dark Souls was already easier and more new comers friendly than Demon's Souls,hell the only way to make Dark Souls really hard for you is to play offline and use melee only.

That's actually what I did. I was pure melee because I disliked buying from vendors, my weapons broke repeatedly so I just used what I picked up, and after a while magic seemed unnecessary.

Except for the rats. Fuck. I play using a small shield (can't get used to tower shields) and they just crowd around and smash me, inflicting pestilence. Horrible creatures even when I know they;re lurking. They're worse than the hunting dogs in Demons Souls. I prefer boss fights more to trudging in the dark with them.

 

[TheMink]

That's actually what I did. I was pure melee because I disliked buying from vendors, my weapons broke repeatedly so I just used what I picked up, and after a while magic seemed unnecessary.

Except for the rats. Fuck. I play using a small shield (can't get used to tower shields) and they just crowd around and smash me, inflicting pestilence. Horrible creatures even when I know they;re lurking. They're worse than the hunting dogs in Demons Souls. I prefer boss fights more to trudging in the dark with them.

Haha thats a pretty interesting play style! I might try that

 

[Parakeetman]

Dark Souls definitely has critical hits when players hit enemies during certain animations. Player vs. Player has them as well.

It wasnt just certain animations. It was basically any sort of attack animation the player or enemy did. Nothing special, just basically if your animation got interrupted by an attack you took more damage. This is for regular enemies not bosses. Didnt pay too much attention to the bosses as couldnt be screwing around with that when a hit can kill you lol

I had first noticed it when I hit an enemy in the middle of his lunge attack animation and he pretty much died in one shot, but when i hit the same enemy again when he was standing idle took more than a single strike to kill him. Then from there just kept messing with it and noticed my own health when i got hit and such + what I was doing at the time.

 

[deviljho]

What do YOU want/expect from the experience of playing this game provided it had an "easy mode" like you describe.

I'd experience the same things as you only with less frustration for me.

You wouldn't. You just don't fucking get it. It's the same reason they keep score in sports.

 

[Eidan]

Are there any more good Dark Souls rage videos? I found the one with the British guy incredibly entertaining.

 

[lemon__fresh]

I'm fine if they provide more explanation of the various items/mechanics in the game. They should not mess with toning down the difficulty IMO.

For instance the bonfires were actually laid out pretty well in dark souls, once you understood the lay of the land it wasn't a problem to get around. There is no reason to have checkpoints right outside of boss rooms etc. The megamanesque aspects of trial/error and mastery are what's rewarding.

 

[Parakeetman]

More like they should go back to making actual REAL game manuals. that way you dont need to have all of this bullshit popping up all over the place in the game.

These days thats whats missing a lot is actual manuals.

Then at least we can all go back to telling new folks RTFM.

 

[params7]

Are there any more good Dark Souls rage videos? I found the one with the British guy incredibly entertaining.

which one?

 

[lemon__fresh]

More like they should go back to making actual REAL game manuals. that way you dont need to have all of this bullshit popping up all over the place in the game.

These days thats whats missing a lot is actual manuals.

Then at least we can all go back to telling new folks RTFM.

werd

 

[Eidan]

which one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoQxzgr9kb4&feature=g-hist

 

[params7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoQxzgr9kb4&feature=g-hist

lmao at 3:57.

 

[superbank]

:/

I don't like the sound of this.

Dark Souls was already easier and more new comers friendly than Demon's Souls,hell the only way to make Dark Souls really hard for you is to play offline and use melee only.

Wait, someone help me. I just started dark souls and my character is a knight and I'm doing melee only. What else am I supposed to use? I don't have magic. I have firebombs but I haven't mastered them, I just use my sword and shield in most situations. Bosses I figure out the weakness first it would be crazy to fight normally. I found a claymore and I use that against weak enemies for quick kills.

The difficulty is fine so far. I'm at the part past the

Spoiler

fire breathing dragon on the bridge

. It would be nice if some things were explained more. Like the weapons for example. I go to equip a weapon and there's a bunch of indiscernible symbols with stat numbers. Tell me what those mean, game. Also I'm not sure what humanity is for. When I run out of my healing flask thing if I feel like I can win I'll use a humanity to heal myself. I'm probably not supposed to do that, haha.

Oh yeah and NO checkpoints before bosses. So far, it feels very reminiscent of old NES style games where you have to run through the whole level again to get to the boss. I'm fine with that. It helps you learn the games mechanics and it's OK to be punished for losing.

 

[Malio]

Completely new people making the game.

Making it "more approachable".

The news guys talk about making Dark Souls II a "great pre$ence, like Skyrim".


This has bad news written all over it, folks.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

VG247 is currently making this statement:

Speaking with Edge – via Shacknews – it was confirmed that Dark Souls 2 would be developed under the keen eyes of co-directors Tomohiro Shibuya and Yui Tanimura.

Shibuya said on the matter of the game’s ambiguity, “I personally am the sort of person who likes to be more direct than subtle. [Dark Souls 2] will be more straightforward and more understandable.”

However he added that this wouldn’t result in the game being any easier. That’s it. Not the biggest quote ever, but we haven’t got a copy of the magazine yet.

I'm not sure how they know the first bolded considering the second bolded, but there you go.

 

[Grief.exe]

VG247 article on the matter:

Shibuya said on the matter of the game’s ambiguity, “I personally am the sort of person who likes to be more direct than subtle. [Dark Souls 2] will be more straightforward and more understandable.”

However he added that this wouldn’t result in the game being any easier. That’s it. Not the biggest quote ever, but we haven’t got a copy of the magazine yet.

Seems that they agree with what we have been saying.

That they are going to make some of the underlying systems more transparent but easier to understand, without effecting the difficulty or game balance.

Source: http://www.vg247.com/2012/12/10/dark-souls-2-will-be-more-understandable-without-being-easier/

VG247 is currently making this statement:



I'm not sure how they know the first bolded considering the second bolded, but there you go.

Wow literally beaten by seconds.

Completely new people making the game.

Making it "more approachable".

The news guys talk about making Dark Souls II a "great pre$ence, like Skyrim".


This has bad news written all over it, folks.

Edge magazine wrote that, not the new developer. Read the article again.

Its not completely new people making the game, its not like they fired the entire team.

They most likely hired some new people, but the core team is still there. The Demon Souls/Dark Souls Director got promoted to Supervisor and they brought in a new Director.

We don't really know what the role of Supervisor means in a Japaneese context.

 

[Axelstream]

Wait, someone help me. I just started dark souls and my character is a knight and I'm doing melee only. What else am I supposed to use? I don't have magic. I have firebombs but I haven't mastered them, I just use my sword and shield in most situations. Bosses I figure out the weakness first it would be crazy to fight normally. I found a claymore and I use that against weak enemies for quick kills.

The difficulty is fine so far. I'm at the part past the

Spoiler

fire breathing dragon on the bridge

. It would be nice if some things were explained more. Like the weapons for example. I go to equip a weapon and there's a bunch of indiscernible symbols with stat numbers. Tell me what those mean, game. Also I'm not sure what humanity is for. When I run out of my healing flask thing if I feel like I can win I'll use a humanity to heal myself. I'm probably not supposed to do that, haha.

Oh yeah and NO checkpoints before bosses. So far, it feels very reminiscent of old NES style games where you have to run through the whole level again to get to the boss. I'm fine with that. It helps you learn the games mechanics and it's OK to be punished for losing.

You can learn miracles/magic/pyromancy as you go along; your starting class doesn't really matter all that much. There a plenty of enemies with different resistances, so it's wise to be able to wield a variety of different attack types. However, you can get along in this game just fine by having that "variety" solely in your weapons, i.e. a fire sword and a lightning spear. It definitely helps to have the buffs and range that come with learning spells, though.

I believe that there is a way to look up what each stat does in-game. Mess around a little bit in the menu and you should be able to bring up a cursor which highlights each stat and what it's used for. Don't bother with Resistance.

It's true that there are no checkpoints right before bosses, but you usually don't have to go through an entire level to get back to a boss -- the game often places shortcuts nearby which allow you to reach the boss within five minutes or less.

 

[luca1980]

Fair and difficult is a soul selling point. They won't forsake it imho

 

[TheMink]

Fair and difficult is a soul selling point. They won't forsake it imho

Yeah, despite the worry i think it wont be forsaken.