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[M.D]

BTW do You think that both PS and nextbox being so close with tech they are using just a coincidence or an agreement to separate Nintendo from the twins again ?

Obviously
The PS4 and Xbox 720 are the same console!

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

lol.

someone put the wiiu in there

 

[PaulLFC]

I'd also like to know this. some posts are suggesting they only have 4 cores to durango's 8.

someone needs to break and spill the beans. waiting is fast becoming impossible.

I think if they do have 4 cores the rumour is they're clocked faster than 1.6GHz - what difference that'll make to OS utilisation I'm not sure.

 

[Lord Error]

LMAO at peeps downing MS for seeming to make a machine that can do more than just games. If the machine can do games + more, why is that a bad thing? lol.

Kill the "pure gaming machine" noise. That ship clearly sailed out this gen and is never coming back.

They are putting in lots of cheaper/slower memory presumably so that they'd have lots of space for non gaming stuff, which signals too much of a focus onto that. I don't think it will be quite like that in any case, but why do you expect anyone here to cheer for that when it's a) gaming forum and b) everyone already has some kind of laptop or tablet that does all that non gaming stuff already, and better.

 

[nib95]

So if this is true, which one is better 3.5 of GDR5 or 5GB GDDR3 assuming this is what ends up being used for gaming?

If you were going only by that ram statistic, definitely the GDDR5. It has over 2X the bandwidth of DDR3.

 

[Opie666]

seriously, people are still talking about that? I mean... there is a shitload of rumour about next gen console, its juste getting ridiculous.
I prefer to wait for official word than losing my time with speculation.

 

[Ashes]

Jesus.

fine. Edited...

 

[73V3N]

No? even now the 360 and PS3 have plenty of exclusives to differentiate themselves.

I'm sure i said "console", not catalog

 

[Teletraan1]

Not really

In terms of raw compute and TDP past consoles tended to be on par with or ahead of contemporary PCs. These apparently use a lot of very low-power CPU cores and cut down versions of high-end mobile graphics chip sets, they won't come anywhere close to powerful desktops. In terms of software overhead Durango is basically going to run the Windows 8 kernel and much of the WinRT framework for apps so it's pretty directly comparable there too.

It'll be a hell of a leap over PS360 because it's been 7 years, not because they're pursuing powerful designs.

High end cards when the PS360 gen came out were not the same animal as what PC gaming currently is. I dont recall even having to think about what power supply you needed to power your videocard back then. The 8800 and forward changed the landscape tremendously in terms of TDP and power draw. Now you can do quad sli and liquid cooled with 1200w power supplies. No way in hell you can currently match that performance in a small form factor without it exploding in flames or costing over $1000. People expecting these next gen boxes to out perform the latest and greatest from pc because it happened for 5 minutes the last time are delusional. Not the same market at all.

 

[Conciliator]

Possible.

I foresee Watch Dogs and SW 1313 level visuals at launch personally. I am more than happy with that jump.

That seems extremely optimistic to me, but great if you're right.

 

[Orayn]

Well looking at the Xbox 360 and PS3, both used hot, expensive, powerful chips when they were released.

Generally the trend is the consoles use lower clocked versions of the high end PC parts. The Xbox 360 used something that was even faster the high end PC parts.

In terms of absolute performance? I don't really think so. You could run multiplat games in the 360's launch window on PC at higher framerates and resolutions if you spent enough. Xenos didn't feature a more advanced shader model that could do effects the PC couldn't or anything like that.

And before someone brings up RROD, that was much more a result of terrible manufacturing practices than any actual hardware flaw.

It was both. The lead-free solder became brittle due to high temperatures over extended periods of times. A slower 360 could have RROD'd in the same way, but a slower 360 would probably run cooler.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Yeah Sony's big studios will pull off some amazing things with that. Look at what they did with PS3's really weird 256mb RAM setup.

This is what makes the difference for me. PS3 was definitely gimped in terms of RAM and it looks like this won't be an issue for PS4. Sony's first parties are going to pull off some absolutely INSANE stuff with this hardware. MS too for that matter - I want this gen to be a crazy battle of awesome first party games.

 

[Demon Ice]

Identical CPU in both will probably make multiplat games much closer in quality across both platforms, which will be nice. I find it humorous that the current GPU in my PC is already more powerful than the Orbis GPU, but I'm sure the devs will be able to code something quite nice with it.

Thank god for a good amount of fast RAM in the PS4. Can't wait to see what the 1st Party studios whip up.

 

[Sid]

I'm sure i said "console", not catalog

They will be similar for the first time,the PS3 and 360 are completely different hardware wise.

 

[Elios83]

BTW do You think that both PS and nextbox being so close with tech they are using just a coincidence or an agreement to separate Nintendo from the twins again ?

It's not an agreement but basically these companies are making systems intended to be released at the same time, at the same price and they're using the same company (AMD) to design the core chips.
What else could be expected? Even if there are differences it's clear that we're talking about systems in the same league.
Also big publishers/developers have made it pretty clear that they need both the products to be similar and successful to be able to sell their games on their cumulative installed base. Basically it's in everyone's interest if the PS3/360 situation continues in the next gen.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Sony always innovate, they just don't commit to their innovations to see them succeed.

Seconded. Also, Mikey Jr. first meltdown of the reveals?

 

[Orayn]

Identical CPU in both will probably make multiplat games much closer in quality across both platforms, which will be nice. I find it humorous that the current GPU in my PC is already more powerful than the Orbis GPU, but I'm sure the devs will be able to code something quite nice with it.

Thread insiders are suggesting that Durango doesn't use a Jaguar CPU, oddly enough. Piledriver is probably too hot and power-hungry, so we're kind of at a loss as to what it is.

 

[MWS Natural]

Kinda disappointed in the NeXtbox specs, hope they do something amazing with all of that memory.

 

[Killthee]

Oh lawd.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

Rumors have Durango reserving CPU 1-2 cores for the OS. Is it assumed Orbis will do the same? What limits on multitasking would there be if Sony didn't?

Richard Leadbetter doesn`t think so:

There'll be a relatively high CPU overhead too, with potentially two cores reserved for the customisable apps Microsoft wants to run in parallel with gameplay. Orbis has no such ambitions and may power past the new Xbox simply because it focuses its resources on out-and-out games power.

 

[Ashes]

CPU: Eight-core AMD processor running at 1.6GHz
Graphics core: Radeon HD hardware, 18 compute units at 800MHz
Additional hardware: GPU-like Compute module, some resources reserved by the OS
System-on-chip codename: Liverpool
Memory: 4GB GDDR5, 512MB reserved by the OS

Btw, what happened to Thebes?

Why is this Liverpool now?

 

[TheOddOne]

That is really bizarre, first we barely get any hinted PS4 info and now it's all out there. Yet, the XB3, which we have heard tons about is a mystery? Whut.

 

[Insane Metal]

I can't wait to see next gen games footage. I'm sure it will look great. I'd love to see racing games for example.

 

[Elios83]

Better than that I think. Not as better as Proelite suggested earlier. Somewhere in the middle I think. Sony was apparently telling devs '10x RSX+PPE' in real performance and that sounds about right to me. The paper spec isn't 10x on those fronts but throwing in 6 years of architectural improvements and efficiencies etc. etc.

Though it's difficult to sum something like that up in one number. Some things will benefit better than that, some not much like that at all.

10X RSX+PPE sounds right to me too, but that's 5-6X the whole PS3

 

[Orayn]

I can't wait to see next gen games footage. I'm sure it will look great. I'd love to see racing games for example.

Look at Project CARS and imagine some better scenery on the courses and you're most of the way there.

 

[AgentP]

I'd also like to know this. some posts are suggesting they only have 4 cores to durango's 8.

someone needs to break and spill the beans. waiting is fast becoming impossible.

Depends on what the cores are doing. Dedicating 100% of 1/4 of those cores is a waste, 1/8 is more reasonable.

3.2GHz 4-core (original rumor) vs 1.8GHz 8-core? Heat, die size, cost, etc. are all trade offs. I wonder if dedicating a single 1.8GHz core is easier for Sony to control rather than part of one 3.2GHz? Too bad they can't have a small ARM co-processor for the OS.

 

[rdrr gnr]

That is really bizarre, first we barely get any hinted PS4 info and now it's all out there. Yet, the XB3, which we have heard tons about is a mystery? Whut.

Yeah. It's weird. I think there is still plenty of doubt.

 

[grimshawish]

That is really bizarre, first we barely get any hinted PS4 info and now it's all out there. Yet, the XB3, which we have heard tons about is a mystery? Whut.

Spoiler

2014

Sony are revealing in a few weeks, I suspect their allowing the airways to fill to try and stop MS riding in to bother them.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Sony always innovate, they just don't commit to their innovations to see them succeed.

On consoles? Honest question, but what innovations?

I could write a whole list on shit they have taken from Xbox and to a lesser degree, the Wii.

They have not done one thing that Xbox 360 has taken from the PS3 though.

Thats why I said the PS4 needs an equivalent ram of the 720. MS will put some stuff in, Sony fans will cry out that they want it as well, Sony will realize that their ram is WAYYYY too fucking low for that, and then nothing will happen, or we'll get it, but it will be a crappier version of it. Like some Chinese knockoff.

I mean, look at the OS of the 360 versus the PS3. It is night and day. NIGHT AND DAY.

 

[derFeef]

That is really bizarre, first we barely get any hinted PS4 info and now it's all out there. Yet, the XB3, which we have heard tons about is a mystery? Whut.

Yeah, all of the sudden Durango is a mystery and the weaker one.

 

[grimshawish]

I could write a whole list on shit they have taken from Xbox and to a lesser degree, the Wii.

Wait...what?

 

[Neo C.]

It seems Orbis is the gamer's console while MS has other targets as well. Sony must hope for Orbis being the standard for devs though, otherwise all the (possible) hardware advantages are useless. It all comes to this: Which console will be the "standard"?

 

[Insane Metal]

Depends on what the cores are doing. Dedicating 100% of 1/4 of those cores is a waste, 1/8 is more reasonable.

3.2GHz 4-core vs 1.8GHz 8-core? Heat, die size, cost, etc. are all trade offs. I wonder if dedicating a single 1.8GHz core is easier for Sony to control rather than part of one 3.2GHz?

Absolutely.

I'm betting on 1 core from the PS4 and 2 cores from Durango (for the OS), more from Durango due to its alleged multitasking feats. More RAM due to that too.

 

[2San]

That is really bizarre, first we barely get any hinted PS4 info and now it's all out there. Yet, the XB3, which we have heard tons about is a mystery? Whut.

Might have something to do with the MS mafia? :O

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508412

 

[Midnight Phoenix]

Btw, what happened to Thebes?

Why is this Liverpool now?

In honor for the Studio Liverpool.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Spoiler

2014

Sony are revealing in a few weeks, I suspect their allowing the airways to fill to try and stop MS riding in to bother them.

None of this seems deliberate. It doesn't have that flair. Speculative still.

 

[Orayn]

Depends on what the cores are doing. Dedicating 100% of 1/4 of those cores is a waste, 1/8 is more reasonable.

3.2GHz 4-core vs 1.8GHz 8-core? Heat, die size, cost, etc. are all trade offs. I wonder if dedicating a single 1.8GHz core is easier for Sony to control rather than part of one 3.2GHz?

I'm still finding 3.2GHz hard to believe. Aren't AMD's only current CPUs with those kinds of clock speeds nearly 100 watts TDP? It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[HoodWinked]

It seems Orbis is the gamer's console while MS has other targets as well. Sony must hope for Orbis being the standard for devs though, otherwise all the (possible) hardware advantages are useless. It all comes to this: Which console will be the "standard"?

the one with better dev tools.

 

[War Eagle]

Significantly. We dont know exactly how much, but every HW part of PS4 is much faster than its PS3 counterpart.

We will find out more about both consoles when they are revealed between GDC and E3.

Thank you!

 

[SneakyStephan]

For the "gimped" 7970M (800Mhz and 18CU) vs RSX

RSX 13GT/s
7970M 57GT/s (4.3x)

RSX 4.4GP/s
7970M 23GP/s (5.2x)

PS3 GDDR3 22GB/s
PS4 GDDR5 150GB/s-192GB/s (6.8-8.7x)

Also the APU design means the CPU cores can share data with the GPU much faster. So is this enough for 1080P@60fps?

Well 720P->1080P is 2.25x the number of pixels. 30->60fps is another 2x, so 4.5x the pixles to render in a given amount of time. Seems like Sony is at least aiming for 1080P @ 60fps, maybe 30fps with 3D?

This makes no sense, there is no universal amount of bandwidth , pixel pushing or compute power 'to 1080 p'.
portal 2 will run at 1080p with 8x msaa at 150-200 fps on a gtx 560 ti (bit less powerful than 7970m), crysis 2 dx11 with the texture pack with no AA will barely hit 40 fps.

with 4GB gddr5 and this much bandwidth devs could aim for any resolution and framerate, it just depends on how many operations they plan to do per pixel.

 

[SapientWolf]

Yeah, the GPU is good, but it's no beast. Far behind high end PC hardware. Not in the same league as a GTX 680 or something.


It's certainly not like the Xbox 360 GPU which blew away everything on PC for a year until the X1900 series was released

I think that's more a testament to the insanely talented first party devs than the hardware. Source engine games ran maxed out at 1080p/60fps on the x1800XT released in 2005. But console Source ports didn't hold up so well. There wasn't enough power to brute force good performance on an engine designed for PCs.

 

[PaulLFC]

On consoles? Honest question, but what innovations?

I could write a whole list on shit they have taken from Xbox and to a lesser degree, the Wii.

Go on then. I'm intrigued.

 

[rdrr gnr]

the one with better dev tools.

Which is Microsoft undoubtedly. But if Sony launches months earlier that might a difference. And, of course, games will be programmed to the lowest common denominator.

 

[onQ123]

Btw, what happened to Thebes?

Why is this Liverpool now?

PS4 Rumors , APU code named 'Liverpool' Radeon HD 7970 GPU Steamroller CPU 16GB Flash

 

[gofreak]

10X RSX+PPE sounds right to me too, but that's 5-6X the whole PS3

For some developers more than others I guess depending on how they used PS3

Thing is, it's not 5-6x on the CPU side (less!) and it's not 5-6x on the GPU/memory side (more!) so trying to sum it up in one number can lose a bit of accuracy.

 

[pcostabel]

Shouldn't the reflection be mirrored?

 

[artist]

Orbis also features Radeon HD graphics hardware. We've previously suggested that AMD's mobile "Pitcairn" design

I called this almost a year ago; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=465532

 

[R1CHO]

Shouldn't the reflection be mirrored?

Not enough tflops.

 

[antitrop]

I wouldn`t call them monster machines. They are more modest machines.

Modest Monsters.

 

[michaelius]

It seems Orbis is the gamer's console while MS has other targets as well. Sony must hope for Orbis being the standard for devs though, otherwise all the (possible) hardware advantages are useless. It all comes to this: Which console will be the "standard"?

Faster GPU can always be used to provide more fps or higher AA levels