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Rayman Legends coming to Xbox 360/PS3, all versions releasing in September
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
People don't want to support a company that treats them like shit. It's that simple. If the game wasn't ready and it was delayed, that's one thing. For them to spit in our face and then slap us is completely different. The game's done. The game is being delayed because they don't have faith in us as consumers. The game's being sent to die and something that was supposed to be a gift to Nintendo fans was taken away. They're providing a product and they have the right to delay it. But we also have the right to be pissed at them for doing it.
Poimandres
Member
That's fine, but really all of the major publishers have pulled major dick moves in the past. I would never let the actions of a publisher prevent me from supporting a developer I like, or allow me to miss out on a great game.
And how do we know that the developers aren't going to use this extra time to polish up the game or add more content? Or, like I said in my previous post, add an alternate control method for the Murfy levels?
Just to be clear, if by "the Wii U version was done", people think the game was already submitted to Nintendo, pressed, etc, then no, it wasn't done.
Even if Ubi intended to release Legends on Wii U first, it wouldn't have been at the end of February, they were far (at least 1 month of delay) from ready.
A little insider news.
Edit: to be more clear, maybe the game was finished, but as it still wasn't submitted to Nintendo in February, it couldn't have been released at the scheduled date.
Even if Ubi intended to release Legends on Wii U first, it wouldn't have been at the end of February, they were far (at least 1 month of delay) from ready.
A little insider news.
Edit: to be more clear, maybe the game was finished, but as it still wasn't submitted to Nintendo in February, it couldn't have been released at the scheduled date.
People bought the system in many cases to play this game. It's not so hard to comprehend. Publishers have a responsibility to cater to their consumers and treat them with respectand in turn we pay them with our hard earned money. They announced a date (after a delay) and now they are releasing the title months after what they stated not to better the product but for arbitrary reasons that have no bearing on the consumer. They are protecting their interests (or so they think) and so are we.
If you want to support the developer, send them a check. If you want to play the game, buy it used. Buy it for $30 used and then sending the developer a check for $30 would give them more money than buying the game new and you get to play the game without supporting shitty business decisions. If Ubisoft thinks they can disregard WiiU owners, we have to show them that we have a voice.
And don't hold out hope that they're going to change stuff in the WiiU version. They ended development. A lot of workers who worked on the project have already left the company (temp workers just to get the game done?). The game probably already went gold.
really Ideaman? a March or Abril release instead?
They obviously didn't decide the delay yesterday. But as far as we know development was completed.
doniewhalberg
Member
Hey, people can only go by Ubi's official word right? Literally jsut had to link this to someone else denying this being Ubi's stance.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...r-completing-wii-u-version-blames-men-in-ties
That's why everyone is saying that.
That seems to contradict
and
The developer, who quit the company at the end of last month, blamed the decision on Ubisoft's "men in ties" and explained that the Rayman Legends team had just finished a crunch period to get the Wii U version ready (until yesterday it had been due to launch on 26th February).
"If you're pissed, imagine how we feel," wrote the developer on Spanish forum EOL, using the alias Zeta69 (translated by NeoGAF). "Think on the situation, we've been making overtime with this game practically since May preparing E3, and then almost a demo per month (Gamescom, Wii U presentation, shops, eShop, etc...) and at the same time trying to actually finish the game.
"We had a first delay because it was obvious we couldn't finish on time but we gave it all to be there on February. What face do you think we had when the week we had to close the game we're being told it's not going to be released? I couldn't believe it.
"For us, this means we've spent six months barely seeing our wives, kids, and friends for nothing because, after all, such a haste wasn't needed. Believe it, it was a hell to swallow this news."
"Believe it, it was a hell to swallow this news."
The developer wrote a message last month celebrating the project's completion, presumably before the news of the game's delay was handed down.
"Today is a great day! We've closed Legends [development]" read a post dated 9th January. "See what you think next month!"
It's unclear who the Zeta69 account belongs to, but years worth of posts point to an ex-Ubisoft Montpellier employee who worked at the company for some time. The developer left on 31st January after the end of Rayman Legends' Wii U development.
No it wasn't ready.
As far as i know, the game haven't hit the submission to Nintendo phase even in February. When you take into consideration the average time for the submission process, and after you have the production phase, then clearly, they weren't ready for a February release.
EDIT: well, to be more correct, it's possible that men in ties blocked the decision to hit submission, WHEREAS the game was indeed ready.
But what i mean is that as legends wasn't submitted in February, well in no way it could have been released at the scheduled date.
As far as i know, the game haven't hit the submission to Nintendo phase even in February. When you take into consideration the average time for the submission process, and after you have the production phase, then clearly, they weren't ready for a February release.
EDIT: well, to be more correct, it's possible that men in ties blocked the decision to hit submission, WHEREAS the game was indeed ready.
But what i mean is that as legends wasn't submitted in February, well in no way it could have been released at the scheduled date.
doniewhalberg
Member
Exactly. I mean, we all know what this is, and there is no poiint in the people disappointed making it into something it isn't, but there's also no point in point blank doing the same the other way aorund. Ubi have taken their stance, they've been clear. According to the devs, they've crunched, and they're done. According to Ubi, the devs are done, and this is purely for multi-format release. If we're then going to *insider info* that that's not the truth, this is just ridiculous. It's the same as me comnig in here and spouting some moneyhat rubbish. It is what it is.
You're trying to bend this round to be about the submission process. Of course they didn't submit it if they were going to delay it. According to both groups, the game is done. It hasn't been submitted or produced, because they're holding it back til September. (They being Ubi, not the dev)
I understand what you are saying. But development was done. Obviously this decision affected production schedule. As far as they where concerned they are not releasing till september. Why submit anything now? That changes nothing.
nintendo's submission process is longer than sony's right? sony can take about a month to six weeks sometimes depending on the game, right?
Well according to one of the Dev, The game was ready by January 8 or 9? I don't remember and they got the news about the delay shortly after.
Does that mean the game's not done or that Ubi execs didn't submit it to Nintendo? You clearly have a developer saying the game's done and even leaving his job BECAUSE the game's done. You also have a PR person saying there's no delay in development. I find it much more likely that the devs submitted the game to Ubi but Ubi didn't submit to Nintendo. Unless you're sure that the game just straight up wasn't done? Either way, there's no reason why the game couldn't be released in March, April, May, June, July, or August.
They didn't submit it because they were holding on releasing it until the other versions were done. No shit it wasn't submitted, we know why. It has nothing to do with the Wii U version not being ready.
Projectjustice
Banned
No they arent at all. Have you even played the demo that's out now on Wii U?
Well, i'm sorry but the submission process + production is a part of a game development in my view, so it wasn't ready by definition. There's is a sizable period between end of content development and being ready to hit the shelves.
People working at Ubi knew since January that the game wouldn't be ready for the scheduled date, as the executives haven't greenlighted the submission process at the time.
Now of course, in terms of content, the game was surely done. This story is a real pity.
People working at Ubi knew since January that the game wouldn't be ready for the scheduled date, as the executives haven't greenlighted the submission process at the time.
Now of course, in terms of content, the game was surely done. This story is a real pity.
doniewhalberg
Member
So it's done, thanks for second insider verification.
They had time from January to now to get the title submitted. I don't think it's fair to equate that in saying a game is finished, seeing as they came up with the decision of delaying the Wii U version shortly after that build was finished for the PS360 versions.
It's hard to be ready and submitted when the company doesn't want to submit it for other reasons, you know.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
Funny, I don't have a WiiU, nor do I plan on getting one anytime soon, but all I could think of after this announcement was "I'm waiting for the PC version, now", because I'm so over playing games on PS360.
doniewhalberg
Member
What Idea Man doesn't know is he just failed the hidden Ubi GAF PR audition, he's out the running for the new position </3
Like i said, and it's illustrated by our little chat, the way we understand "done" is different for people.
For me, "done" is when the game is pressed and shipped to retail. And Legends was far from that, as it hasn't enter the submission process (with sometimes a round-trip, meaning at least 1 submission to Nintendo, that send back the build for corrections, then another submission) + production. And both can be quite lengthy in time.
Herb Alpert
Banned
Why are they anouncing it in a manifest rush, with no site or youtube channel updated, without telling retailers, juste 20 days before release? They shoulds have figure it earlier.
Yeah I presumed that the game wasn't even in the shipping cycle once the delay was decided on. The choice to send it to September was really short-sighted, and there was no way they could have predicted GTA V would be moved to there either.
If Ubi knew about that I think they'd have tried aiming for another month.
If Ubi knew about that I think they'd have tried aiming for another month.
I'm pretty sure Ubi had at least a decent relationship with Nintendo, who's been bending over backwards to help companies with the WiiU. Most devs talk about how they can call Nintendo up and get help on their problems. Plus it's not like there's a flood of WiiU games out right now; I'm sure it wouldn't have taken that long for Nintendo to greenlight the game to print. And I heard that it takes roughly a few weeks to a month for a game to print and be packaged once it goes gold. It totally could've been in stores around the release date and the devs didn't say they were behind schedule at all.
There IS the possibility that this isn't completely Ubisoft's fault and is, in fact, Nintendo's fault- but that seems unlikely considering the developer blamed it on Ubi suits. But hypothetically Nintendo could have had some sort of financial exclusivity agreement that they backed out of to make their fiscal report look better in terms of profits. Or Nintendo could've denied processing the submission till later to save money (once again for their fiscal report). I find it extremely unlikely for them to do that though.
EDIT: This is based on some jibber-jabber I heard about Nintendo saving as much money as possible to end the fiscal year on a high note. This is why we haven't seen ANY advertising in a long time.
There IS the possibility that this isn't completely Ubisoft's fault and is, in fact, Nintendo's fault- but that seems unlikely considering the developer blamed it on Ubi suits. But hypothetically Nintendo could have had some sort of financial exclusivity agreement that they backed out of to make their fiscal report look better in terms of profits. Or Nintendo could've denied processing the submission till later to save money (once again for their fiscal report). I find it extremely unlikely for them to do that though.
EDIT: This is based on some jibber-jabber I heard about Nintendo saving as much money as possible to end the fiscal year on a high note. This is why we haven't seen ANY advertising in a long time.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
IdeaMan, moving goalposts like Ubisoft moves release dates. Can't wait to hear about the philosophical intricacies of what "done" truly means. I mean, is anything ever really done, or are we just perpetual slaves in this mortal coil, moving from one activity to the next at junctures of transition conveniently labeled as done, although closure only exists as an abstraction which placates the ego and obscures death fear? Oh, unless you mean the dev team completed their work on the software. Well yeah, sure, it's done if that's what you mean.
doniewhalberg
Member
This is ridiculous though. Literally do correct me if I'm wrong, but when you stuck your oar in, I'm not sure anyone was at any point discussing done in terms of discs waiting to be pressed in factories, and it was extremely clear that we discussing it exactly in the terms both the devs, and Ubi have stated themselves. If you're going to try and go this route, you effectively have to pay more attention to the discussion before posting.
Of course though, you're backtracking, and that's fine. Like I said, stop trying to make it something that it isn't. We are very clear here on what's happened and why it's dissatisfying.
IdeaMan, moving goalposts like Ubisoft moves release dates. Can't wait to hear about the philosophical intricacies of what "done" truly means. I mean, is anything ever really done, or are we just perpetual slaves in this mortal coil, moving from one activity to the next at junctures of transition conveniently labeled as done, although closure only exists as an abstraction which placates the ego and obscures death fear? Oh, unless you mean the dev team completed their work on the software. Well yeah, sure, it's done if that's what you mean.
Oh man hah. I laughed.
This is the real question.
Basically, they knew since the second-half of January i would say, considering the time for submission + production, that they wouldn't hit the scheduled date.
So they could have announced this decision since nearly one month. Why waiting so much ? Maybe they wanted to do it during their recent event, maybe they were still hesitating on the course to the follow (a two stage launch, one earlier for Wii U then the others in September), etc.
phew
It's not only a matter of discs being pressed, i talk about submission here, and it could be quite lengthy.
Now of course, it's not because they haven't hit this stage that we won't have Legends at the end of February. It's because of the higher-ups decision to not hit this stage.
Herb Alpert
Banned
THIS is what is despicable in that mess. A loss of exclusivity? Fine, expected. A delay? Fuck, but OK... The way it is anounced : such contempt!
Linkstrikesback
Member
Oh, clearly you know more than the people working at ubisoft. If Ubisofts idiotic PR says it was ready for release on Wii U, that being the absolute worst thing they could have said (Barring outright cancelling the Wii U version), then nobody has any reason to believe anything otherwise.
We know for a fact that game development is "done". The fact that suits decided not to submit it for release is what we're all pissed about. What you're saying doesn't change a thing.
Thing is, people working on other Ubi projects that are already available on Wii U, were called up to help finishing Legends in time. They were really pressed by time, but still planned to release it like announced (Wii U, end of February).
So we can assume it's a January decision from the higher-ups, and i can say that even a lot of developers inside Ubisoft weren't officially aware of this decision until very recently (nearly the same time as us), but anticipated it because of all this submission+production thingy i explained.
Well, after having read some pages of this thread and the other one (titled "was done"), i've seen a lot of people nearly believing that the discs were pressed and just retained in factories. In other words, that they were so close to put their hands on those. But like i said in my first post, it wasn't the case, at least two phases, really important, including one that can have consequences (albeit generally minor) on the game content, remained.
Anyway, the result is the same for us
Salz01
Member
If anybody at ubisoft is reading this, the marketing team not the devs, know this, I will not purchase your game at the 60 dollar price point. I will wait till it hits the bargin bin. Because of your stupid choice to delay the game, you saved me 40 bucks. Maybe I should say thank you. I will take the 40 bucks I saved and purchase perhaps a next gen game, or collectors edition of GTA assuming they release one.
Well, after having read some pages of this thread and the other one (titled "was done"), i've seen a lot of people nearly believing that the discs were pressed and just retained in factories. In other words, that they were so close to put their hands on those. But like i said in my first post, it wasn't the case, at least two phases, really important, including one that can have consequences (albeit generally minor) on the game content, remained.
Anyway, the result is the same for us
I know people don't understand how long it can take to get a game approved and then printed/packaged, but people aren't that dumb. People understand that being done with your homework doesn't mean that you've turned it in. Noone (and I'm sure there's one or two idiots out there invalidating this slightly) thinks that companies regularly print their games and then sit on them for a month for no reason before they send them to retailers.
Due to the dire need of quality U software and Nintendo's obvious reliance on the product to fill a software drought, would it be naive of me to think Nintendo would have expedited this usually lengthy submission process? Nintendo needed this product on time just as much as Ubi. Or moreso, as it turns out.
Buy it used. Publishers still get money if you buy it new.
Projectjustice
Banned
Just checked oit the Uplay community on Miiverse. Ubisoft is getting ripped on there. Some very funny post and drawings. Miiverse is just too amazing. I really hope Ubisoft is watching whats going on over there. Lots of unhappy Wii U owners.
Poimandres
Member
That's actually not a bad idea, giving money directly to the developers. The only problem is that might hurt the chances of future Rayman games.
I can understand waiting to play the game used to not support Ubisoft, but people who were excited for the game should still find a way to play it when it releases... because I'm sure it will be great!
uPlay hit the warawara (mii plaza) this evening too, since that system uses board activity to decide which tiles to display. So even more casual U owners are currently being organically informed about the situation when they boot up for some Mario, Nintendoland, Netflix etc..
It's more important that having your homework done and waiting in your bag. It's like rushing to finish those homework, then close the 10 pages of essay, 5 pages of math exercises, without checking/re-reading/proofing it. Submission isn't a trivial thing. This ultimate phase in a game development is all the more important nowadays as studios aren't idle while waiting for manufacturer/publisher's checking, they still refine their build, even prepare day one patchs, etc.
I think some posters here thought that i was saying the developers were late in the content creation, and because of this they couldn't hit submission in time, sorry for the confusion, but i haven't said that one time, just that the idea that the game was done is false, when you take into consideration submission + production.
No it's a pretty standard procedure, with lotchecks, stability measurements after a fixed number of hours, etc. They can't say "ok we need this game so screw the submission, go go press the discs !", it would be irresponsible.
Well, they don't even need to read these reactions, as their own employees are vocal against this decision.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Yeah, but they could put more people to work on it than a normal title would get to speed up the process, because really, the Wii U division for that can hardly be busy right now. And the Wii U really needed Legends.
doniewhalberg
Member
Maddening that you kept going back to this, and trying to have it both ways. The game was done in exactly the manner the devs, Ubi, and how everyone else discussed it being *done*. Of course it wasn't submitted when they finished it in Jan, it's not coming out til September. End of. You're attempting to subvert what we're discussing for the pure sake of being *right* about something silly you said a page or so back, and that none of us bought into. Get over it or move on, this is only coming up now because your dragging it up. No-one is under the impression Ubi had submitted it to Nintendo. We understand why. This is not insider info or a surprise. Cheers though.
I meant expedite as in prioritize, not irresponsibly skip over, but thanks for the response. My uninformed assumption was that games generally may sit a while before getting looked at. Or that the submissions team could double/triple up to get the process done asap.