cpp_is_king
Member
They actually played the original version of Fortunate Son in one place. There was a tear and the music was coming out of the tear. booker says "Wow, Ive never heard that song before" and Elizabeth says "I dont think anybody has"
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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
They actually played the original version of Fortunate Son in one place. There was a tear and the music was coming out of the tear. booker says "Wow, Ive never heard that song before" and Elizabeth says "I dont think anybody has"
SpartanForce
Member
can anyone help
This is the interpretation I'm going with. It's a happy ending, no dramatic impact is lost, and it makes the most sense.
The One Who Knocks
Member
First part, precisely.
Second part, precisely
No. He doesn't kill himself, Elizabeth drowns every Booker before a choice is made. If he killed himself, Booker would never survive the baptism and there would not be the post credits sequence. The choice at the baptism is removed by causing a paradox what will occur 100& of the time it the baptism is accepted. This is what ends the conflict and resets the timeline. A paradox cannot occur, the universes 'course corrects' and removes the choice, it makes it a certainty that Booker rejects the baptism so the paradox does not occur.
It was explained by the Luteces in audio logs that the use/research of the tears led to Comstock rapidly aging or something like that. I do know for sure it was explained in the voxophones
What thing are you talking about?
Yes but I interpreted as 2-3 main universes with thousands of minor variations.
Anna gained her tear powers because she existed in two universes (her severed pinky). Tower was sucking her power because she recalled being more powerful with her tears when she was a child. Dont know about being a God though. She's more like the Luteces, being able to now travel across multiple tears/universes.
SpartanForce
Member
Thanks
also is that horse scene in the game or did I miss it?
lastplayed
Member
There's an infinite amount of universes, one for every possible reality.
AWESOME! I love the mechanical concepts in this game. So is the whistle part of the Comstock statue? Does it slot behind the jaw and attach to the gears in the chest?I thought this was pretty cool
Looks to be cut content.
Horse scene is not in the game.
Forsaken82
Member
Could also be as simple as in Booker's heaven, Anna was never given away? Considering the overly religious undertones of the game, it wouldn't be crazy to assume his redemption got him into heaven to enjoy a happy life with Anna. I don't agree with the happy ending tear simply because if there is a tear that exists where Anna didn't go through, doesn't that remove one of the biggest constants required to keep the story going?
Up for debate
He was born 1874, that makes him 38 in 1912
Booker is obviously related to Jack and/or Ryan. Or they arrived at some point in Rapture when it wasn't in lock down.
There are Infinite number of alternate universes
She had powers to see outisde her current dimension. The tower was siphoning her power. She is god-like, she is omniscient. This also hinted at the twice repeated dialogue, "Booker, are you afraid of God?" "No. But I am afraid of you."
sssstententen
Member
So has it been agreed on whether the Elizabeth alternate design shown in the ending is just a convenient use of an old model, or is it all all possible that the reason Elizabeth went through all those changes represent different versions of her.
I mean wouldn't it have been brilliant if the marketing and demo campaign for the game had various versions referencing the 'infinite' number of possible "Elizabeth's".
Either way, it was a nice easter egg regardless.
I mean wouldn't it have been brilliant if the marketing and demo campaign for the game had various versions referencing the 'infinite' number of possible "Elizabeth's".
Either way, it was a nice easter egg regardless.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I have a vision in my head of Booker moving to Paris with Kid-Anna and teaching her how to be an excellent detective and lockpick. Happy endings galore in my brain.
Not in the game. Which is a shame. I wanted more of that kind of stuff. A lot of the demo stuff wasn't in the game (some of the Vox stuff like the Postman choice). That stuff was cool.
Anna's not God, but at the end she's outside of time and space and capable of manipulating it. I read somewhere here that she has the ability to create tears because of the Lutece's experiments and a piece of her being left in another universe (her pinkie)
Not in the game. Which is a shame. I wanted more of that kind of stuff. A lot of the demo stuff wasn't in the game (some of the Vox stuff like the Postman choice). That stuff was cool.
Anna's not God, but at the end she's outside of time and space and capable of manipulating it. I read somewhere here that she has the ability to create tears because of the Lutece's experiments and a piece of her being left in another universe (her pinkie)
What makes you certain that Elizabeth only killed the Bookers who chose baptism and not all of them?
The way I read it, they went full looper and that the only way to really solve the paradox is for all Bookers to be dead before the baptism, rendering the post-credit sequence some kind of afterlife dream thing.
1. The post-credits scene is open to interpretation. Booker is in his late 30s.
2. Comstock is actually in his late 30s. The exposure to the Letuces "Tear" machine aged him considerably. It also made him sterile and proved to be cancerous.
3. No. It's not meant to be anything revelatory.
4. Yes, but there are also constants and variables. 122 Bookers had tried prior to the events of the game. Of those attempts, there were things that always happened and things that changed. For instance, Booker being unmasked as a "false shepherd": constant; Booker and Elizabeth discovering they can control Songbird: variable.
4. Her pinky finger was left behind in Booker's universe. Rosalind Letuce postulates that Elizabeth's abilities were a way of the universe correcting itself as a result of her being caught in two worlds. The Syphon was inundating her by sapping her powers. Without it, she was able to open tears and go between universes at a whim.
The One Who Knocks
Member
First, he has a debt in the post credits scene since that was removed by selling Anna to Comstock.
Second, Booker is 37 (I believe).
Third Comstock is 37 also (he's the same age as Booker). The Luteces' device ages him rapidly, have him tumours and rendered him sterile.
"The Prophet is dying. The metastasis has aged him so quickly. Why does this Comstock decay, while a Comstock in another world remains fit? If genetics are destiny, what accounts for the difference? Perhaps exposure to the contraption? Hm. It merits further study."
Fourth, the bathysphere's genetic keys were not perfect. It is mentioned in an Audio Diary that any type of distant relative can use them. Alternatively, to avoid the issue, Elizabeth brought them to an alternative universe where no genetic keys were implemented. Ultimately it's irrelevant.
Fifth, not thousands, infinites of infinties. There are an infinite number of infinite subsets of subsets of subsets of universes, where every single thing spawns an infinite number of alternative universes.
Sixth, the siphon is like a leash, it limited her power. At the end she basically becomes like a god in that she can alter the probability space and can see every potential universe. However, she is not a god in that she doesn't exist outside the probability space. If you mean the source of her power, her simultaneous existence in two universes:
"What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is, and rather more with what she is not. A small part of her remains where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas mixed with its porridge."
Incendiary
Banned
I thought this was pretty cool
Where was this in the game?
The One Who Knocks
Member
No, I'm saying she killed them all. She states she kills them all. A paradox is only created if she murders them all. Otherwise there would still be a probability of Comstock and thus, her. Killing every Booker that exists only occurs if a Booker accepts the baptism which starts the chain of events leading her to murder every Booker. Booker accepting no longer is a possibility, because it would lead to every Booker's death. As a result, rejecting the baptism becomes a constant, because no paradox occurs if every Booker rejects, it only occurs if a single Booker accepts.
sssstententen
Member
Well if you consider it, the genetic key worked because Booker technically COULD be Jack. In an alternate time. Hence the Man, Lighthouse, Mission thing.
So it would make perfect sense that he could operate it. After all, Elizabeth doesn't touch the controls, you do. And you almost do it like you've done it before (although this is me stretching).
Ah okay gotcha. That's what I thought but was a bit confused by the wording.
Just curious what your thoughts were on if Anna was born before or after the baptism. I assume after, since if it was before, that meant that Comstock would've had an heir and the entire plot of the game wouldn't have happened.
So that means Elizabeth/Anna wiped herself out of existence for the sake of preventing Columbia and Comstock right?
Just curious what your thoughts were on if Anna was born before or after the baptism. I assume after, since if it was before, that meant that Comstock would've had an heir and the entire plot of the game wouldn't have happened.
So that means Elizabeth/Anna wiped herself out of existence for the sake of preventing Columbia and Comstock right?
lastplayed
Member
Going through my 800 (lol) screenshots now. This bit kinda freaked me out.
ShockingAlberto
Member
That area definitely could have used fewer fights.
Elizabeth eliminated the version of herself that grew up in Columbia.
Whether she's still alive as Anna DeWitt in the post-credits scene is open to interpretation.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Theoretically, yes, but not this Booker though, since this Booker is not born in Rapture or in the same time period as Jack.
Bolded parts, exactly. Not bolded parts, you're simultaneously correct and incorrect depending on the specifics of the question. Because Booker rejecting the baptism is a constant, the probability still remains that Booker becomes an alcoholic and has Anna (this is the after credits sequence, this is the same date as Anna's abduction yet Booker awakes naturally, not by being woken by Robert Lutece knocking). You're partly correct though in that Annas/Elizabeths as we know her are indeed wiped out of existence.
Going through my 800 (lol) screenshots now. This bit kinda freaked me out.
Freaked me out too.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
It's a tossup between that area (as you can really easily run low on ammo if you haven't been upgrading the guns a lot), the multiple lady comstock fighting; once at the beginning and once at the end would have been fine, not 3(4?) times, or handymen fights.
Seriously, the rate at which handymen constantly close the gap or shockwave is ridiculous. Either that or I was missing some easy cheese factor besides aiming for the heart, but my un-upgraded murder of crows didn't seem to stun them long enough.
sssstententen
Member
Well that's what I mean.
I'm not trying to imply that they are ACTUALLY the same person tick for tac, but that they are enough alike for him to be able to operate the bathysphere. Again, he's the one who operates it, not Elizabeth.
lastplayed
Member
Incendiary
Banned
I don't know if this is sarcasm or dry humor or not (if you're referring to Comstock House in the first place) but there are only three mandatory fights in that section? The first is the very first Boy of Silence which serves as kind of an introduction, the second is the two turrets, and the third is the Boy of Silence jump scare fight. All the others, you can sneak by the Boys of Silence without alerting them/having to fight anything.
The One Who Knocks
Member
Oh right. In that case I can concur that the probability exists that Booker is a distant relative of Andrew Ryan in some universes but I still don't think it's really relevant since the simultaneous possibility that it's a different version of Rapture exists. Going to Rapture was merely a way to exploit Songbird's weakness, to introduce constants and variables, as fan service and to justify the presence of "Bioshock" in the name.
EDIT: These pictures are beautiful. Regardless of everything else, the designs and implementaions of Columbia and its inhabitants were absolutely superb.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I wasn't able to successfully sneak past anyone (first person stealth isn't my forte), so I was getting annoyed with those fights by the end. They all felt very bullet sponge-y.
Or his way of internally dealing with the atrocities he committed.
XANDER CAGE
Member
The chameleon activation sound is the "bwooo" sound, not the distant screeching.
SpartanForce
Member
So how do you guys think the DLC's will be? Another "Booker" in Columbia for other mission?
Also not only the horse thing was not in the full game but I think elizabeth tits were way smaller that in the trailers, I think levine got pissed because of people were only focusing on that lol
Also not only the horse thing was not in the full game but I think elizabeth tits were way smaller that in the trailers, I think levine got pissed because of people were only focusing on that lol
lastplayed
Member
Quite a few western nations had the same attitude at the turn of the century, Columbia just seems to fit into its time.
We talked about this a couple pages back in more detail, but it's essentially that Booker could either think he's a bad person for what he did at wounded knee (player Booker) or he could rationalize what is right and what is wrong to accomdate his actions. So as Comstock he built a religion that says white men and America are all that matter and that God will destroy all else, believing that absolves him of the guilt from wounded knee.
Google 'cognitive dissonance' for more
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
There is a voxophone where Comstock is ranting about how people mocked him for having Sioux blood in him. He's called the White Injun of Wounded Knee cause of his habit of taking grisly trophies. It seems to be a combination of his own repressed guilt and hatred manifesting on the minorities around him.
Booker didn't wind up succumbing to this like Comstock. He just turned into an alcoholic wreck guilty over Anna.
fatigues_gasolini
Member
Watching Star Trek TNG "Parallels" helps with some of this stuff