No. They're both bad for you, some would argue rice is worse because it's generally much denser than bread so you'll end up eating more of it.
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Is bread really THAT bad for you?
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
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It's good cholesterol, plus saturated fat helps lower cholesterol by producing large fluffy LDL's. Back in the day they thought there was only one type of LDL, small tight ones. They saw saturated fat spiked them, and figured it was bad for you. Thus began low fat diets.
IN actuality, there are two. Saturated fat spikes the good kind, carbs spike the awful kind.
Bacon and Eggs in the morning are good. A nice cheese omelet with Spinach is good as well. Celery with Salmon and Cream cheese is also a good morning food.
The only fats you want to stay away from a trans-fats and partially hydrogenated oils (vegetable oils).
Fine, I agree with you there but I disagree that low carb paleo, less than 30 a day, is anything but bad news for someone doing anything other than a sit down job. That was the original point I was trying to argue.
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Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Low-carb Paleo doesn't have to be < 30 g per day. That's pretty extreme. Not everyone on Paleo is trying to get into ketosis.
Less than 30g a day is keto diet. I've said numerous times to keep your carbs between 30g to 150g or so. You can't even eat fruits if you are on keto. It's quite extreme.
Paleo isn't even a low carb diet but due to the food choices it allows, it ends up being kinda low carb. But things like potatoes are paleo, whereas for a keto person it's straight up cancer.
So I don't disagree with your post at all
I like to mix things up - if I have a meal with a decent amount of fat in it, I won't have any bread. Example being the lush salmon cutlet I had last night with grilled mushroom and asparagus on a bed of rocket and baby spinach. Sometimes I'll feel like bread, such as the tuna and tomato sandwiches I just had, but there was no butter or dressing on it.
I think mixing fats and carbs in meals leads to problems, at least in my case. I've tried ketosis in the past and I felt like crap for close to a month until I stopped it - with a bottle of Coke. I never reached that breakthrough moment where my energy levels picked up again and almost passing out whilst driving home isn't cool. I only ever feel truly healthy when I eat a good mix of stuff in moderation and workout at least three times a week.
Everyone is different, but I will say that getting plenty of protein is important and helps you feel fuller for longer.
I think mixing fats and carbs in meals leads to problems, at least in my case. I've tried ketosis in the past and I felt like crap for close to a month until I stopped it - with a bottle of Coke. I never reached that breakthrough moment where my energy levels picked up again and almost passing out whilst driving home isn't cool. I only ever feel truly healthy when I eat a good mix of stuff in moderation and workout at least three times a week.
Everyone is different, but I will say that getting plenty of protein is important and helps you feel fuller for longer.
How much worse? I would assume bread, especially American white bread be more terrible than rice since it is filled with nothing, but sugar.
To further that common sense debate, how the hell would most people (Americans) know that eating too much bread can hurt you. Do people not remember that old food pryamid from the 90s? Heck, scientists are still arguing the positives and negatives of caffeine every month.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
If you're eating brown rice you might be able to argue that it's "better" for you because of the miniscule amount of fiber that's in it, but really, both eventually end up pumping sugar into your bloodstream.
Yup. Shit is ingrained in the minds of many people still, I really can't imagine how much damage it has caused. My parents stuffed me full of bread when I was a kid, and it certainly did me no favors.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
White rice is fine. While it's nutritionally blank, white rice is completely toxin free (no lectins, phytic acid, or harsh proteins) and contains zero fructose. In general, it's a great delivery vessel for other foods and nutrients.
Brown rice contains a pretty good bit of phytic acid. Unless you really need the fiber, avoid.
Brown rice contains a pretty good bit of phytic acid. Unless you really need the fiber, avoid.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
From what I've seen it breaks down into three groups or so that say things like this:
1. I want to continue believing what I've been told for the last twenty years, so fuck all of you people with your new-fangled crap! High-carb, low-fat for life!
2. Eat everything in moderation! Consume less and move more! Look at me, I'm effectively saying nothing!
3. Hey, a lot of what you've been told over the last few decades has been complete bollocks with zero scientific evidence backing it. There are a lot of compelling arguments over here about how to get healthy by consuming less processed foods, sugar, carbs, and manufactured vegetable oils, and instead eating lots more fat and protein and foods found in nature.
blame space
Banned
eating bread is like declaring jihad on your body.
krypt0nian
Banned
Unless this bread has no grain, it sure does.
Green Mamba
Member
Real talk, what the fuck are you supposed to eat.
Just eat whatever the Internet tells you to eat and shut up.
Bread itself is not inherently bad for you, but the mass produced stuff is nothing like the bread of old for two reasons:
Modern Wheat - This stuff is a 42-chromosome monstrosity and is brimming with toxic elements and harsh proteins. Since it's birth in the 1960s, it now accounts for more than 95% of wheat products today.
Preparation - Traditionally, sourdough was the defacto bread that everyone consumed. The longer fermentation process breaks down toxins in the wheat to make the bread easier to digest and improve the bio-availability of its nutrients. This, combined with the already lowered toxin content of traditionally available wheat (especially einkorn) flours, yielded a product that was nutritionally robust and easy on the stomach. This is why even most celiacs can tolerate more strongly fermented sourdough breads.
Modern Wheat - This stuff is a 42-chromosome monstrosity and is brimming with toxic elements and harsh proteins. Since it's birth in the 1960s, it now accounts for more than 95% of wheat products today.
Preparation - Traditionally, sourdough was the defacto bread that everyone consumed. The longer fermentation process breaks down toxins in the wheat to make the bread easier to digest and improve the bio-availability of its nutrients. This, combined with the already lowered toxin content of traditionally available wheat (especially einkorn) flours, yielded a product that was nutritionally robust and easy on the stomach. This is why even most celiacs can tolerate more strongly fermented sourdough breads.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
If you want to easily lose weight, get healthy, and get strong, I suggest at least giving these two books an honest read:
Why We Get Fat
The Primal Blueprint
That's a good starting point!
What about Light Thomas Whole Grain English Muffins? I dont like bread slices, so I use these for a small turkey sandwich.
Ive been drinking only water and/or sugar free drinks for years.
I sometimes think my obsession with sugar intake is having an adverse effect on my body and mind.
Ive been drinking only water and/or sugar free drinks for years.
I sometimes think my obsession with sugar intake is having an adverse effect on my body and mind.
If you must eat bread, whole grains are probably the way to go. However, no matter what kind of bread it is, it's still bad for you! Please keep that in mind.
What makes you think that? Sugar is poison, nothing more.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
I think everyone can agree that when you're eating something and someone you don't know tells you that its bad for you, that person is an asshole. Right?
Don't listen to this guy. The existence of bread is NOT bad, but rather the proportion of bread.
CornBurrito
Member
This is such bullshit. Explain how Asia has had such low rates of obesity and diabetes with rice being a huge part of their diet?
What study shows rice being anywhere as harmful as wheat?
What hyperbole. Sugar is not poison. Fruit is not poisonous. What definition are you even fucking using.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
"AHLAHT AHFBREAD!"
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Good for you to dismiss it as such. My vastly improved health and 80 pounds of lost fat disagree that the diet changes I made were "rubbish."
I took a look at the intro to your link, and I have no idea where he's going, so I stopped.
What do CAM/IM, rejection of modernity, etc. have to do with paleo?
ClassyPenguin
Banned
It is based on flawed science and the naturalistic fallacy.
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/03/25/paleo-and-woo-bad-company-until-they-day-they-die/
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/new_scientist/2013/04/marlene_zuk_s_paleofantasy_book_diets_and_exercise_based_on_ancient_humans.html
Also, anecdotes aren't evidence.
Lots of people have terrible diets and they attribute their weight loss success on a number of different things. One thing is having a varied diet and cutting out junk food.
CornBurrito
Member
You do realize that could be due to the things you cut out that coincides with the actual science, and not due to the sketchier claims made by Paleo... right?
Except that the wheat husk is where most of the phytic acid and lectins are found. Depending on your body's tolerance of these compounds (and some people can tolerate them very well), whole grain can be worse for you than white.
Sugar is not poison, the toxicity of sugar is entirely contextual. Sucrose is just a disaccharide that's one part glucose and one part fructose; both are found in nature and both can be processed fairly easily be the body given that they're coming from unrefined sources.
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Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The part about "eating like a caveman?" I don't think you were supposed to take that so literally... That rhetoric is used to be catchy, but I don't think many people are seriously claiming that we try to replicate our ancestors' lifestyles to a T.
What sketchier claims? If you're going to attack something, at least point out specifically what you are attacking--not some nebulous "THE PALEO!" that really doesn't even have an agreed upon definition.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
That's their premise and they follow that as their dietary guideline which is arbitrary since humans ate whatever was available and we have evolved to eat a variety of different foods including wheat and other stuff that they claim is unnatural for us to eat. Also, different cultures develop different evolutionary advantages such as lactose tolerance due to selective pressures. The diet is great if you have celiac's.
The problem is that the modern Western diet is overrun by starchy and carb heavy foods primarily due to fast foods and sugary drinks. Cut that and eat more proteins and veggies, home cooked meals and bam! weightloss. That's what dietitians have been saying for the longest time.
CornBurrito
Member
Well that sugar and rice are poisonous for one. Fruit contains sugars and is hardly poisonous based on any sane definition. Though I am not certain if that is Paleo or Izayoi, so forgive me if it is just him.
It's all about moderation, personally I try to stay away from eating too much bread right now as I'm cutting. I get carbs in to meet my allotted macro nutrient intake. I need carbs, because I do a lot of resistance training so I don't think eliminating bread/rice/oats from my diet is ideal. But I will start eating more of the stuff once I reach my goal weight, both for satiety sake and so my muscle bellies are full of glycogen and I don't look so drained.
It's not so black and white to say something is bad for you, something might seem inheritely bad, but has it's uses. Low fat diets for example are shit, because it would throw you out of homeostasis. You need fats to produce testosterone and regulate horomnes as a result fats is probably one of the most crucial macros when it comes to how you feel/your mood.
It's not so black and white to say something is bad for you, something might seem inheritely bad, but has it's uses. Low fat diets for example are shit, because it would throw you out of homeostasis. You need fats to produce testosterone and regulate horomnes as a result fats is probably one of the most crucial macros when it comes to how you feel/your mood.
It depends on lifestyle. You can consume a moderate amount of carbohydrates if you're active and not see any major negative effects. It does not change the fact that it's sugar!
It certainly seems that many people in this thread feel that way!
I wonder what people would think if I told them that sitting on their ass all day was also bad for them?
http://www.livestrong.com/article/356371-comparison-of-nutrition-in-rice-flour-vs-wheat-flour/
http://ramanuj.blogspot.com/2009/02/wheat-vs-rice.html
Carbs are one part of a diet, there are a lot of other contributing factors that help Asia when it comes to health. You also need to consider portion sizes, lifestyles, and other parts of the diet (especially the consumption of fish).
http://www.hookedonjuice.com/
Please educate yourself. The fact that you get so offended about someone confronting you about your diet should be enough to make you take a step back. I'm trying to help.
It was a not a literal statement. Obviously sugar is not a toxic substance. What it does to your body when consumed in the amounts that most people consume it, on the other hand, is absolutely poisonous.
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
Reminds me of this 60 minutes segment.
http://cdn17.castfire.com/video/305...cbsID=7403942&track1=CBSNews&track2=MobileWeb
CornBurrito
Member
Notice how I said FRUIT. I did not say fruit juice. I never claimed fruit juice was healthy, so yeah fuck off with your patronizing "please educate yourself."
I did not get offended by you criticizing "my diet" when I don't even drink fruit juice. I did get offended at your fucking stupid claim that sugar was poisonous.
A glass of apple juice is like eating 4 or so apples without any of the things like fiber.
That's quite a bit different of a claim than "sugar is POISON."
A single apple is not poisonous to the human body. How can that be when apples contain sugar, and you claim sugar is a poisonous substance?
But yes shift the goal post... fuck actually you aren't even shifting the goal post around the same field. You completely changed the field, switching your claim from sugar is poison to juice is bad.
Just what nutrition threads need, speaking in hyperbolic "not intended to be taken literally" statements. That certainly makes it easy for people to ascertain the validity of your statements.
The reason Rice/bread is 'bad' for you is because it causes your insulin to spike. If you eat carbs with proteins, the protein mitigates the insulin spike, so it can render GI of some carbs moot. This is the chief reason that many believe a carb is indeed a carb. I don't really have a stance on that personally. But I don't feel like a carb is a carb, the science says otherwise.
chickdigger802
Banned
shit... what am i suppose to eat out then at your typical 'american grill' or any restaurant for the most part if I'm not much of a salad fan?
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
Is there a healthy eating/living thread in gaf?
I've been looking into eating healthier but it's hard to know what to believe, any good non pseudo scientific books or websites that anyone can recommend?
I'm fairly active in work (7 hours a day on my feet), I'm a vegetarian (I eat dairy though), according to my Doctor I'm within my BMI but want to lose a few pounds on the belly.
I've been looking into eating healthier but it's hard to know what to believe, any good non pseudo scientific books or websites that anyone can recommend?
I'm fairly active in work (7 hours a day on my feet), I'm a vegetarian (I eat dairy though), according to my Doctor I'm within my BMI but want to lose a few pounds on the belly.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
See a dietitian for a professional opinion. Should be covered by your insurance.
Dietitian is the legally protected term. Anybody can call themselves a nutritionist.
CornBurrito
Member
You should also add that a nutritionist is NOT a dietician.
edit... beaten by your edit!
Femmeworth
Banned
All of my snack foods are carb heavy, need to do something about that. :\
ClassyPenguin
Banned
The reason I say go to a professional is because they can work with you on the foods you like and no like for a personalized plan. Takes a lot of the headache of trying to find reputable sources, especially with the diet industry making bank off this confusion.
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