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Adam Orth no longer with Microsoft
- Thread starter Wario64
- Start date
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I have literally no idea what you think would be so bad in that that you fear for my account safety, but thanks?
If you post on GAF and blame "GAF" for causing issues, then you're not really thinking things through. This is not a ban worthy comment.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Gies spews shit left and right and people may hate his opinion, but in the end its fun to have someone being so straight-up ignorant about a lot of things that it makes it looks hilariously silly. I don't think anyone wants him to be fired (unless they had a virtually personal altercation with him). We just want a different person to represent the voice of reason, but there aren't a lot of them stepping up who also post here.
Palette Swap
Member
This was mostly a joke about how bought these guys are.
But to answer your question, I think you'd be surprised.
I'm pretty sure the people here gobsmacked about someone getting fired over this have never had a job in a corporation.
Companies are incredibly strict with any kind of leak information, and they make it extremely clear to everyone that they are not supposed to public comment at all about unannounced projects. Many of them also explicitly state you will be fired if you comment in public about anything they tell you is forbidden.
So, that is the reason he was terminated.
Companies are incredibly strict with any kind of leak information, and they make it extremely clear to everyone that they are not supposed to public comment at all about unannounced projects. Many of them also explicitly state you will be fired if you comment in public about anything they tell you is forbidden.
So, that is the reason he was terminated.
mentalfloss
Banned
BronsonLee
Member
Orth Screwed Orth.
Ballmer is McMahon confirmed
Ballmer is McMahon confirmed
Orth certainly seemed to lack empathy for all the people out there who would be negatively affected by always online. But now we should feel sorry for him because the things he voluntarily stated in a public forum cost him his job?
Well, I'm not convinced. Sorry. If you would like to explain, feel free.
mentalfloss
Banned
Gies is a pretty good comparison point.
Gies makes comments that some people consider as douchey and inaccurate. Those comments could actually have a direct affect on his journalistic integrity.
Should Gies get the axe from polygon or whoever it is that he works for?
The crux of the argument is that it really depends on how much his employer gets affected by his twitter comments.
So, by comparison, we have to ask the question - did this incident (on its own) truly have negative repercussions for MS?
Take your assumptions and answer them with "No."
It might not work. If you're in game credits and such and you have a decent sized profile and you say something the detective folks out there can trace it back to you.
Look how many leaks come from sites liked LinkedIn where the people did nothing "classically" wrong, they're effectively updating their CV/resume maybe because they're looking for a job. You put something on it like, "Unannounced project." Tomorrow on your favorite gaming site you wake up and read, "Developer X is working on an unannounced title, publisher refuses to comment."
If you work for an employer where a community like the gaming community might care about what you're doing the only really safe strategies are to avoid places you can get into hot water or really pay attention to what you're doing. It's a shame because part of the reason these social sites are so popular is that they provide some great benefits and entertainment.
Another site where people tend to slip a lot is Facebook because there the information is normally not public. Jay Wilson (and other Blizzard employees) discussions from Facebook being a recent, painful, example. All it takes is for one of your co-workers to go to a GameDevDrinkUp and friend a journalist and then blam all of your game-related comments are going straight into their office.
Employees with access to sensitive information and/or a high profile on the net should be given some training or training materials on the use of these tools much like professional sports leagues are beginning to do. Such training would have helped Matt Mitrione in recent days.
JrBaconCheeseburger
Member
It's pretty crazy that twitter has gotten so many people in some serious trouble and fired.
Think twice before you post anything
Ha Ha
Think twice before you post anything
Ha Ha
blitzcloud
Banned
This comment seemingly got a gaffer banned in this thread.
I would avoid talking about gaf as an individual altogether, specially trying to put some burden over it. But maybe the ban was unrelated.
Yeah, not the best rhetorical device. One of my assumptions was that you were a human. Another was that you have a reasonable level of intelligence. Got a better argument?
Interfectum
Member
Good. The more people that ruin their livelihoods over fucking Twitter the sooner that shit show fades away into irrelevancy. Hope that 144 characters was worth it.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Yeah, I would too. Which is what both my posts say. "Don't act like GAF is a homogenous hive mind and certainly do not act like you're somehow above that if you post here." For clarity's sake. Good looking out though
publicpwnerer
Member
It speaks more to the integrity of "news" sites and blogs, than the fault of GAF.
If one was so desperate to lay blame, GAF was perhaps the catalyst, but it can't be held accountable for what 30-40 major sites take away and post for all to see. They're just fishing for hits after all, searching for the next big controversy.
As it stands today, gaming "journalism" is 20% news, 10% reviews and 70% controversy and speculation.
Isn't it funny how the character limit actually limits people's character on Twitter?
blitzcloud
Banned
Yeah well, i got another whole meaning from it (as always, english not being my first language), so that's why I tried to warn you. Now it's much more clear!
mentalfloss
Banned
I like what you did there.
Omegasquash
Member
Another smart thing to do is have employees sign NDA's with some pretty extensive no-no's. I think it's always been safe to assume that once you sign any confidentiality agreement with an employer (and I'm pretty sure we all do when we get hired anywhere), an NDA that you can print a few hundred copies of and hand out as a reminder would serve as a refresher.
Training that you mention is part and parcel as well...inform or remind people that they can't talk about this stuff in public and you'll be able to exercise greater control. None of this is applicable to Orth, I suspect. Pretty sure he had nothing to do with Durango.
Palette Swap
Member
Nice!
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
good night sweat prince
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Hell, I barely speak English. lol
akidnamededdy
Banned
If Gies were fired then that would mean Polygon would no longer be the perfect storm of shitty industry personalities that it is today, so obviously I don't want him to be fired. It's just too funny with him there.
Seriously, this. Anyone who didn't see this coming a mile away is just clueless.
I mean...imagine a crowded stadium. Everyone in the audience is chatting amongst themselves in small groups, asking if other people have heard the rumor about the next XBox needing an internet connection to play games.
Somebody walks out to the pitcher's mound/50 yard line/center ice/what have you, microphone in hand and a big "I WORK FOR MICROSOFT" hat on head.
*tap tap* on the mic to make sure it's on.
"THE INTERNET IS GREAT, YOU PEOPLE SHOULD REALLY CONSIDER GETTING IT. POWER GOES OUT SOMETIMES, GUESS I JUST WON'T BUY A VACUUM. I WISH EVERYTHING WAS ALWAYS ONLINE. MAYBE YOU SHOULD MOVE TO AN ACTUAL CITY."
Then as soon as the crowd turns on him and starts booing, he gets flustered. "No, no, that was meant for my friend over there!" as he points to someone up in the nosebleeds.
Is this not essentially what he did?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why are you so mad? Didn't he disrespect people first online? Why aren't you mad at him for what he said?
Lessons 1,2 & 3: Don't be a dick
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
True/exactly/etc
The guy was a dick to customers. The guy was commenting on something he shouldn't have. No one "got him fired" and firing him wasn't exactly a necessity. It was MS' call.
I'm not really sure how I feel about this. Yeah he was incredibly stupid to post that crap and he created a PR-nightmare for Microsoft. However, he's still a human and we all make mistakes or say dumb shit sometimes. I don't think someone should be fired if he fucks up 1 time, but I have no idea how he did at work.
People should realize the power of social media though. Twitter and Facebook can destroy your careers.
People should realize the power of social media though. Twitter and Facebook can destroy your careers.
Even taking that out of the equation.
You went out and basically confirmed a feature on an unreleased product. A feature that was going to be controversy and instead of allowing the company to present it in a good light. You childishly insult people against it.
He is destructive to the company on top of it who now have to deal with a PR nightmare and already have a severe negative stigma going into it when its finally announced.
This is why he was fired and it is completely his fault.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
I think we're at a point that if you work for Apple, MS, Google, Samsung, etc, you should know that its a bad idea to go fucking with and insulting your consumer and market base.
If you're a hip employee of a tech company, you should know how to behave in the social media sphere.
MehsterChief
Member
He acted stupidly, sure. He went over the line, I'll give you that. And I didn't like his comments as well, they were disrespectful, especially to those who don't have the kind of Internet connection apparently needed for the next Xbox.
But think about it this way:
your (our) reaction about his comments: being mad/disagreeing with his comments
longterm consequences for him: unemplo<ment + a story that won't make it easy to get another job in the business.
Not really balanced, right?
Therefore, I think that it is absolutely ok to disagree with him, even be mad about his comments.
But enjoying him being fired? That's crazy. Just try for a minute to walk in his shoes. A few tweets that weren't thought through and your career is over and the Internet is celebrating it.
mentalfloss
Banned
Yea, I'm also kinda curious about his reputation as a 'creative director'.
Maybe the guy was just really good at his job.
These sound like questions that a journalist might ask though.
Mammoth Jones
Member
This. This. This.
Do not comment. Do not say anything. They drill that into your head over and over again.
Especially in this day and age of twitter, instant communication and internet outrage and manufactured controversy. Anyone will take nearly any comment and attempt to twist it to get those webviews.
Palette Swap
Member
Looking back at that quote, the irony is palpable considering how much he didn't get it.
I realize I might come off as glad he got fired. I'm not, I'm just really surprised at how little people care for or know the contents of their work contracts and their responsibilities as employees.
dragonflys545
Member
sunhi being sunhi
Holy shit!!! This is amazing!
Petrae
Member
While we can debate on how "GAF" is responsible for what happened to Mr. Orth, I think it's more telling that more than 50 news pieces on sites of varying reach and importance amplified the situation.
The noise became deafening. All kinds of people across the Web responded to those news stories outside of our little corner of the Internet here. Microsoft sees all of this, sees the vitriol, the comments about "no way am I buying the new Xbox", and what should they have done?
Truthfully, we don't know HOW it went down. Perhaps he resigned, knowing that he made a mistake. Perhaps Microsoft HR gave him an option to leave or be termed.
This was a BIG deal. It was bigger than Orth having a conversation with another developer and whether or not he was "trolling". It got picked up here, and then it got picked up worldwide and linked to being supportive of Microsoft's official position by gaming press and others.
If we're looking for people to blame-- other than Orth for not recognizing that he's always a representative of his employer, like it or not-- then folks need to be pointing to all of the news sites that spread the "word" and fanned the flames.
That very much includes gaming press websites who employ some of the very same people who are now angry about Orth's separation.
The noise became deafening. All kinds of people across the Web responded to those news stories outside of our little corner of the Internet here. Microsoft sees all of this, sees the vitriol, the comments about "no way am I buying the new Xbox", and what should they have done?
Truthfully, we don't know HOW it went down. Perhaps he resigned, knowing that he made a mistake. Perhaps Microsoft HR gave him an option to leave or be termed.
This was a BIG deal. It was bigger than Orth having a conversation with another developer and whether or not he was "trolling". It got picked up here, and then it got picked up worldwide and linked to being supportive of Microsoft's official position by gaming press and others.
If we're looking for people to blame-- other than Orth for not recognizing that he's always a representative of his employer, like it or not-- then folks need to be pointing to all of the news sites that spread the "word" and fanned the flames.
That very much includes gaming press websites who employ some of the very same people who are now angry about Orth's separation.
This cannot real. Then again, you're unable to recognize outright theft, so perhaps you are just that daft. Incredible opinion though.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You have to remember that he was loosely talking about a product that they haven't even announced yet.
Fixed. It doesn't even matter that the guy was being a dick on Twitter. He was spreading either misinformation or unauthorized information about the company he works for, negatively affecting the purchasing decisions of a large group of potential customers.
Petrae
Member
It depends on the severity of the offense. When your comments get picked up by business-related message boards and news sites and manufacture thousands of "I'm not buying your product anymore" comments, your employer really doesn't have a choice but to discipline you harshly-- including termination (although it's unclear as to if that happened here).
It is unfortunate that Orth got separated. I don't revel at all in it. But I 100% understand it. Regardless of intent, his comments led to a PR nightmare for his employer. Separation is the only correct option here.
Gies also throws bombs from his protected ivory tower of Twitter, where has has no accountability and nobody can actually refute his ignorant claims/ideas. I'd love to see him step back into NeoGAF in a heavily moderated thread to keep out the obvious trolls, where he can defend his position in a public forum.
Petrae
Member
In the gaming press business, controversy is good. The more you anger your readers, the more hits you get-- and the more revenue that you bring in. He's doing his job, unfortunate as that may be.
He has nothing to gain from continuing discourse in here.
Diablohead
Member
The dude did nothing to help himself in the situation at all and in a way, let it get as wild as it did because he did not give reason or try to fix things. If you are going to troll someone on twitter make it obvious, as he did not.
MehsterChief
Member
First of all: why would that make someone feel happy about him being fired as long as you are not a higher up at Microsoft? As an individual, why would you see things from a corporate perspective and not from your own (probably being an employee of some kind as well)? That I don't get.
And secondly: I thought that Microsoft's reaction statement was basically a confirmation of their always-on strategy. If not, they could have just said: "Nope, don't have to be online." Instead, they talked around it so that when they reveal the console they can sugar talk it.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Why do people hate Twitter so much? It's like hating video cameras people people do dumb things in front of them.
I think he means how much weight people give to Twitter posts, not Twitter itself and I agree. People use Twitter too much as some kind of official source.