I think this gen both will be easy to develop for. MS always went this route and now Sony does it, too. "easier to work with" is not up to devs - they get their tools and start working. And I doubt that 3rd-parties will leave out neither nextbox nor PS4 because otherwise they would say goodbye to a lot of money.
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Kotaku Rumor: Microsoft 6 months behind in game production for X720 [Pastebin = Ban]
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
I think this gen both will be easy to develop for. MS always went this route and now Sony does it, too. "easier to work with" is not up to devs - they get their tools and start working. And I doubt that 3rd-parties will leave out neither nextbox nor PS4 because otherwise they would say goodbye to a lot of money.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
You're dreaming.
Ouya has an off the shelf tegra - nothing custom.
Durango is a completely custom APU and bespoke memory (and memory management) system.
it is like comparing lego to building the space shuttle.
But what this post shows is you are willing to ignore logic to believe in your dreams. I salute you.
statham
Member
They will favor the company where they can make the most money.
PS2 vs Dreamcast
PS3 vs 360
You really think ease of development significantly affects what developers choose to develop for?
Remember PS Vita ?
Either the "Easy to develop for " is highly exaggerated or your logic only suits console, not for game industry ?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Most of the visual difference from this generation came for the differences in architecture and having to work around the split pools of ram and all that jazz. The architectures are so similar this time around the differences should be negligible. Dead Space 3's parity between platforms should be the norm next gen
True said...the Vita is amazing to develop on...
What has the PSVita's "easy to develop for " led to ?
Scarce 3rd party support ? The pre launch developer praise eventually gone into dust, produced nothing but embarrassed situation what Vita has now.
The truth is the development tool between Xbox 720 and PS4 is comparable at best,especially when you know AAA studios have been heavily relied on
middleware for a long time on game development.
Scarce 3rd party support ? The pre launch developer praise eventually gone into dust, produced nothing but embarrassed situation what Vita has now.
The truth is the development tool between Xbox 720 and PS4 is comparable at best,especially when you know AAA studios have been heavily relied on
middleware for a long time on game development.
Risk Breaker
Member
Wouldn't 2 more working CUs produce more, you know, heat?
Disagree that third party will go for parity. The spec difference is too great. They'll have to gimp Durango or they leave money on the table for the ps4.
I mean we're looking at 30 to 50 percent more powerful. That is huge.
BruiserBear
Banned
and that one that provides them the best sales. You forgot that small detail.
Remember how all those 3rd party devs made more games for the Dreamcast?
I don't get how devs going for parity will result in leaving money on the table for the PS4...PS4 owners will not get the PS4 versions of the games if they're not better than the Durango ones?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Why would they have to gimp Durango? Its not like PS2 vs Xbox here. There's still a plenty capable gpu in that box. As long as Durango is capable of using the same type of AA the visual differences are going to be microscopic.
I find it short sighted and ill thought that some people can't figure out the many scenarios as to why insiders won't post anything they are given in cofidence by their friends in the gaming industry. Especially when they give the information to get their non gaming industry friends excited or maybe they had a shitty day because of problems at work or whatever reasons they tell a friend in confidence.
While in the military, we were told to not give the where abouts of a certain plane that had to land for maintenance. Never would have seen the damn thing close up otherwise. This happened a few times for different aircraft. What were we supposed to do, blab it to everyone just because we knew? On top of that, this wasn't rumor, the thing was there!
At the time, everyone wanted to know everything about said aircraft, from enthusiasts to actual countries whom would have loved to have known where it was, what happened to it, when it was leaving etc,etc..
Do I believe every rumor? No, but sounds like some you would get or get someone court marshalled. Be it by any military or MS, Ninty or Sony.
While in the military, we were told to not give the where abouts of a certain plane that had to land for maintenance. Never would have seen the damn thing close up otherwise. This happened a few times for different aircraft. What were we supposed to do, blab it to everyone just because we knew? On top of that, this wasn't rumor, the thing was there!
At the time, everyone wanted to know everything about said aircraft, from enthusiasts to actual countries whom would have loved to have known where it was, what happened to it, when it was leaving etc,etc..
Do I believe every rumor? No, but sounds like some you would get or get someone court marshalled. Be it by any military or MS, Ninty or Sony.
Actually, they'll just do whatever their publishers tell them to do.
For multiplats I think it'll be more likely next gen than in others that the more powerful console will get some visual boosts since the architectures are so similar that they won't have to specifically program and optimize much differently. They can just turn up the multipliers. Granted, I don't think the difference will be as big as some people think but I have a feeling there will be differences. The scaler chip combined with the hardware planes in Durango makes me think Microsoft knows it may have issues with 1080p but good scaling combined with a sharp HUD will make it so many people won't notice. It could be the only differences wind up being native 1080p on PS4 and sub-1080 on Durango.
specialguy
Banned
I doubt that. Those will only come into play if you know the competition, and MS didn't. The hardware planes are likely for overlaying stuff on a TV feed.
Superdae said Durango dev kits mandated 1080P. Which kinda surprised me really.
I suspect the 'easier to develop for' extends only to considerations of PS4 in this instance.
ThreeSixty
December 16, 2009. 4:00 AM. THE LIGHT FIELD is the force. The mind. That guides. Controls.
Quite an epic thread this turned into. I'm skeptical of anything that Kotaku writes (I've never seen a publication with so many "sources"; it's like they have a thousand of them on constant standby) but I do believe this situation could be possible. Microsoft shed all of their studios years ago and they just can't compete on a raw resources level with Sony and Nintendo. I can see Microsoft aggressively securing third party exclusives to compensate. I mean who do they really have left after losing almost every studio. Rare?
It also seems like Sony started their PlayStation successor plans far earlier than Microsoft (given the PS3's launch disaster and initial slow sales) so I can see this situation being plausible. I just doubt the legitimacy of something from Kotaku. I mean has Kotaku ever been proven correct with an exclusive like this before?
It also seems like Sony started their PlayStation successor plans far earlier than Microsoft (given the PS3's launch disaster and initial slow sales) so I can see this situation being plausible. I just doubt the legitimacy of something from Kotaku. I mean has Kotaku ever been proven correct with an exclusive like this before?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
lives are not at stake here.
in my view if you cant say anything dont say anything. There is plenty in my line of work that i cant say publically, even with friends.
Difference is I dont hint "me too" to give myself a bit of credibitly on a online gaming forum.
People sure like doubting us. Here are just a few recent examples of major news we broke:
- Wii U having 8gb flash memory: http://kotaku.com/5797890/nintendos-next-console-will-enter-the-hd-era-but-not-the-hard+drive-era
- GTAV having multiple protagonists: http://kotaku.com/5853279/grand-theft-auto-v-will-be-set-in-los-angeles-may-star-multiple-characters
- Durango: http://kotaku.com/5885539/the-next-xbox-is-code+nameddurango
- Wii U's power problem: http://kotaku.com/5920931/the-wii-us-power-problem
- PS4 share button and controller touchpad: http://kotaku.com/5977849/the-plays...ccounts-and-impressive-specs-so-far?tag=orbis
- Other PS4 info (some of which hasn't been confirmed yet, though): http://kotaku.com/5985356/source-th...d-youll-be-able-to-control-it-with-your-phone
- Tons and tons of LucasArts stuff, including info on Star Wars 1313, Star Wars First Assault, etc: http://kotaku.com/the-last-months-of-lucasarts-472038151
Anyway, to get back on topic, I keep hearing more and more that corroborates Stephen's reporting that Microsoft is indeed behind schedule. Also, I can confirm that GAFfer thuway told me before the PS4 launch that they had upped the RAM, although he thought at the time that it was going to be 6GB. He also got the bus code-names half-right. (He said Ginger and Garlic; I corrected him as they're actually called Onion and Garlic.)
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Good for you.
One of the best things about this thread is how people are willing to basically ignore what you have said because it upsets their view of the world.
Working in Marketing and having close links with PR agencies I know that you, as 'the press' don't take publishing potentially negative stories lightly and hence there must be some conviction that what you have said has an element of truth.
Beyond that though, the most article it littered with caveats about why things might change?
I reject the implication that 'all consoles' come in hot.... they do to an extent... but what you were implying was this is coming in almost as 'hot' as the PS3 did.
We learned from that period that figuring out some of the stuff you state MS haven't worked out yet last minute has a very negative impact!
I'd be interested to know what your sources have to say about the 1.23tf vs. 1.8tf that keeps getting bandied about.
Have the spec's changed for Durango versus what's already been leaked or not?
Wasn't thuway banned because he was adamant that PS4 would only have 4GB of RAM?
Crimson_Gold
Member
No. He was banned for teasing information and not giving it. An explanation was given regarding this matter at a later date. Gotta find the post.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Although, the easy to develop for vita did result in a surprising amount of indie games so far. Where as the big devs seem to want to ignore it, indies are making some good returns for their games, and have wide praise for it.
Dev a game with a sales target from 10,000 to 100,000, and the vita seems like a good place to put it.
I can't see big devs ignoring the ps4 though. Ps3 put up some good sales numbers and was quite popular worldwide.
again im not dreaming about anything ...this r the last days where we can still speculate about an unveiled console and we all r just saying what we think no?
imho if i look at ms they have all the right cards to hit hard on a struggling rival (sony) after the success of kinect that cost (i mean the retail price) as an half of a console and have low production cost (in sales 20 millions pieces i think) after the great xbl income...and the good sales of the x360
while if we look at sony they had a late start with the ps3 ...enourmous cost of r&d for the cell cpu.......high cost of production for the ps3.....vita sales going bad....move/pseye combo that didnt worked as they wish....4 years and still in red.....well isnt a good moment for sony we all know this
for this reason TO ME sound crazy that ms is givin a free win generation to sony ...coz having a 1.2tf against a 1.8tf ..in the long run..in 3 or 4 years.....mean just that
i still think that ms this time did their work good.. hiding the console in a unprecedented way...and really if i look at that specs sound more and more crazy to hide a console that barely could been called next gen (always ihmo and always taking as good that performance) compared to rival console (sony) that was pointing at a x10 next generation performance from years
sound crazy that no one tried to stop all this waves of rumors that r showing the ps4 already as the winning generation console (pretty much in every site) if u dont have an ace in your pocket...
after this there r millions of things that dosnt add...
multiple skus rumors
multiple design rumors
lots of weird patents from ms
the yukon diagram
the r&d ms is spending on this console
the thuway 7970 devs kit rumor
etc etc
all of this to come out with a meh..1.2tf console followed by bold words like "we will dominate the living room"...
sorry but see that we can still speculate...i just dont drink this 1.2tf scenario against that ps4...sorry
would be like if tomorrow nvidia and amd release their top end card...and one have more than 40% performance over the other......i could trust in a rumor that give an advantage of 5%/10% ..not 40
or maybe ms lost their way for real....but i need to see it before i trust in this
Although it's a poor comparison in many ways, the Wii shows this is a dangerous assumption to make.
... as did the Wii.
May as well just wait for the 21st. Or the next leak, which is probably going to come sooner.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
To be fair, it did happen once, ATI Radeon 9700 PRO was a lot more powerful than NVIDIA's top GeForce FX models when it launched (even up to 300% more, if I remember correctly). But when it comes to real life processing power, I don't think that there will be as much difference between PS4 and the next Xbox as most people seem to believe either.
true but in fact we need to look at real life performance
and btw yeah on paper the ps3 cell was 2tf and we all know how it end
shinobi602
Member
I know you didn't break the Durango name. That was in a pastebin. As was PS4's code name Orbis.
2 months before your breaking news: http://pastebin.com/j4jVaUv0
Might have even been the first time Durango was said to be 1.2 TFLOPS.
We were the ones who found that pastebin in the first place, by googling "durango orbis" once we learned both names (from a different source). We first alerted everyone to the pastebin's existence in this story: http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details
I have not seen any evidence that that pastebin was seen by anyone until *after* we broke the names. If you google around, the only mentions of that pastebin on any website are after March 28. (If you find something earlier, of course, please do let me know.)
Punkster_NY
Member
Oh shit. RROD 2.0?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Cell was also much harder to dev for, so outside of scientific number crunching, good luck getting that number in real world performance.
The ps4, on the otherhand, seems to be getting loads of developer praise. Wouldn't be surprised if getting at the performance was much easier then with the ps3.
Same should hold true for the xbox.
If they do have a major performance gap, I could see it as MS thinking they had some otehr advantage, and that sony wouldn't go to the bleeding edge spec wise, to save costs. IE, they bet stuff like cable and kinect and their 8 gigs od ddr3 would make up for anything sony had.
XtremeXpider
Member
Conclusion from a premature hardware months before final hardware? LOL.
can i ask a technical question?
ps4 bus
http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/lvp2.jpg
durango diagram
http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/durango_memory.jpg
i read that the ps4 cpu bus is <20gb/s while durango should be 40gb/s
how much this could influence the performance of the system...and still
that ps4 20gb/s ....is for each module of 4 cores....? or is for the total ?..and in the durango diagram the 40gb/s is the summa or the total is 80gb/s for both group of 4 cores (from the diagram seem that each module of 4 cores have 40gb/s)
ps4 bus
http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/lvp2.jpg
durango diagram
http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/durango_memory.jpg
i read that the ps4 cpu bus is <20gb/s while durango should be 40gb/s
how much this could influence the performance of the system...and still
that ps4 20gb/s ....is for each module of 4 cores....? or is for the total ?..and in the durango diagram the 40gb/s is the summa or the total is 80gb/s for both group of 4 cores (from the diagram seem that each module of 4 cores have 40gb/s)
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Who knows,maybe some of your list is FUD
Punkster_NY
Member
It's a little silly of me to jump to conclusions like that, I mean it's not like they released defective hardware in the past right. :lol
Which would suggest its a mistake they would be keen not to make again. Having said that, if hardware design mistakes were easily predictable, they wouldn't be made in the first place.
statham
Member
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Retailer source = bullshit
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
That's pretty lame and non-trustful rumor
statham
Member
thats why I didn't make a thread. seems fake.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
I expect more wired "rumors" coming until May 21
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah that seems like BS to me.
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