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So, about the Wii U 50hz VC...
- Thread starter Neff
- Start date
Cosmonaut X
Member
There's no point in *not* complaining for all the time it takes to do, though.
I'm hopeful that the fuss about Balloon Fight will see its "official" release changed to the 60Hz version, and I'm prepared to keep on supporting good releases and not supporting bad ones, and making my opinion heard in the meantime.
Balloon Fight is currently not available for purchase in PAL land, so I think they will release an updated 60Hz version.
Complaining on Miiverse and elsewhere got us at least some 60Hz versions, so we shouldn't give up just yet.
Garou
Member
Maybe those 60Hz-versions were planned to be released as such from the beginning? The original Wii-VC was also a mix of 50/60Hz.
Cosmonaut X
Member
IIRC, the only 60Hz games on the Wii VC were "import" titles. Anything that had a European release was always the European version.
The original Wii was a 50Hz shitty fest. Only games released working at 60Hz were the Hanabi Festival ones (originally unreleased in Europe) and Turbografx games because the original PAL console made the 50Hz output conversion itself and it was not hardcoded into games, which were exactly the same as the NTSC releases.
In fact, the Wii VC is better than the Wii U with the 50Hz games because the Wii would just set its output to 50Hz and games would be perfectly represented frame-by-frame while in the other hand the WiiU draws the 50Hz game on a 60Hz output so it adds extra choppiness and unresposive controls (on top of the choppiness that badly called "PAL optimized" versions added as they had to strip animation frames in order to work at the original speed) because it has to repeat every 5th frame in order to create a 6th
fabricated backlash
Member
I wish I had your confidence in NOE. But I don't. They are just too dense to care. A puzzle game at 50 hz, who cares, but a game that is reliant on frame accuracy? That's just contempt for your customers.
care to point me to it?
Hanabi Mega Drive games were also 50Hz. What was Sega thinking?
Come on, don't give up just yet.
Wii U UK
https://www.facebook.com/WiiU.co.uk
NOE Twitter
https://twitter.com/NintendoEurope
Nah. You could instruct the Dreamcast and Gamecube to display at 60hz.
With Virtual Console the problem is that the European language versions of the those games are hard coded at 50hz.
Ironically back in the day I had a NTSC SNES. And my friend had a PAL one. Super Mario World on my SNES had plenty of slow down, especially with lots of koopas on screen, his Pal version of SMW had a more consistent frame rate.
Neon_Icarus
Member
This is truly disgusting. My all time favourite game being treated like this. 
Nintendo should just offer both versions for download. Problem solved. Of course, that might require a tiny amount of effort on their part...
Nintendo should just offer both versions for download. Problem solved. Of course, that might require a tiny amount of effort on their part...
If their main reasoning for putting out the 50hz PAL dumps is because they are localized, wouldn't a better angle be for people in countries affected by the localization telling NoE they don't care about losing the localization?
So less "We don't want 50hz!!!", more "We don't care about localization if it affects our games negatively". Unless that's the approach taken?
So less "We don't want 50hz!!!", more "We don't care about localization if it affects our games negatively". Unless that's the approach taken?
Ban Puncher
Member
This is truly disgusting. My all time favourite game being treated like this.
Nintendo should just offer both versions for download. Problem solved. Of course, that might require a tiny amount of effort on their part...
"Please understand."
I think that you can still download the game, but as long as you never run it, the icon won't show up.
There are a lot of people that care more about a localized product than about the improvements that 60Hz brings, so that angle doesn't make much sense. The best solution I can see is to offer the choice between the localized PAL and the English NTSC version when you buy the game.
When the only stuff localized in this game is A LINE OF TEXT at the end and some menus, it makes zero sense. And take into account they only did German and French so people in the rest of Europe get fucked over a couple of lines that don't affect them directly at all.
Is there a list of old NES/SNES/N64 games that Nintendo localized? Just in order to manage my own expectations about the VC service...
fabricated backlash
Member
And every ingame text is still english, despite the translated starting monologue. Pathetic.
scarybore
Member
Super Metroid will be 50 Hz
All localized Nintendo SNES games confirmed useless.
I'm fucking livid over this. If there was one game I finally wanted to experience in 60hz, it was Super Metroid. I can only assume Nintendo doesn't want my money, as they sure as fuck ain't getting any for this.
Robin64
Member
Yeah, absolutely. But now, the pirates will have a better gaming experience than legitimate customers. This is SO backwards it boggles my mind.
I guess it's more of a general stance. If there's a version that was in some way translated they'll use that. For Super Metroid that wasn't much, for other games like LTTP it'd make a huge difference.
I don't think so. But from the top of my head (so for German translations) this will affect basically every RPG, Zelda games from SNES onward, Yoshi's Island (if they ever release that), DKC games (if they rerelease them), basically everything published by Nintendo that has a few lines of text. One of the bigger Nintendo games this should not affect is Super Mario Kart.
It will be interesting to see how they will handle the Contra games.
That's more of a theory than a fact.
DKC games aren't really that borked in 50hz thanks to Rare being Europe based they had the oversight to make sure the PAL versions run as intended, even in 50hz. They aren't even letterboxed. So despite losing 10 frames per second the actual game speed is identical.
Did they also create new animation frames to match 50Hz?
That's true, but from what I heard WiiU emulation introduces a few new problems for 50Hz games.
frankie_baby
Member
i do wonder if it might not be possible (with a future update) for the wii u to switch to actually outputting in 50hz for the relevant vc games
Pro tip: just about everything in this life is just a theory.
KojiKnight
Member
The Wii U won't magically turn 50hz into 60, the only "updates" that will fix that will be ones that replace the EURO versions with USA/JPN versions... and since translations were made with PAL TVs in mind, it seems quite unlikely that they'll redo every game they release. That said, there are certainly some games that don't require the translations/are the same despite region.
frankie_baby
Member
you misunderstood what i meant, i meant for a 50hz game for the wii u to output to the tv in 50hz thus avoiding this extra problem
That's your theory.
You're catching on my friend!
frankie_baby
Member
yeah i'm pretty sure my copy was english only (and it was before noe started doing real english translations) so hopefully we'll be lucky
Actually, a little search made me just find out that a 60Hz French version of LttP was released exclusively in Canada, so they could use that version for the European French release.
frankie_baby
Member
good idea, watch them saddle us all with 50hz so the poor germans aren't missing out though
No, everyone should submit to the British empire so we all speak common
You will all go down with us. Fair's fair.
frankie_baby
Member
no arguments here
So I read around some and apparently there are games that work just as intended on modded PAL SNES consoles with a 60hz switch. As in, they run at the intended speeds and everything, no letterboxing. Seems to be the case for a lot of titles at least.
So why NoE can't just see which games actually work like that and add a 60hz switch for the games that do work right with it is just weird. Then again who knows if it's up to NoE at all? Maybe NCL are the true dicks here.
So why NoE can't just see which games actually work like that and add a 60hz switch for the games that do work right with it is just weird. Then again who knows if it's up to NoE at all? Maybe NCL are the true dicks here.
Which games with a translation would this even concern?
It would only work with 100% un-optimized games as just speeding them up trought the emulator would result in the same as the NTSC version. With optimized games you'd most likely get an unplayable mess because they would be too fast and it wouldn't bring back cut animation frames.
Yes, I forgot to mention that fact, but games that are slower and has no optimization work well
. There are also some issues with anti piracy measures (Like copyright warnings popping up) and some games just glitch out for no reason depending on the version number. (Saw some people who tried Mario World and had it glitch out, worked fine for others)Kontergurke
Member
Just to clarify the Super Metroid situation:
Upon starting the European version, you have to choose either German or French subtitles. The whole game is still completely in English, but short subtitles are added in the intro and for the self-destruct emergency messages.
The menus and explanations you see whenever you pick up a new item, are all in English only.
What's worse though (and what bothered me even back then), is that the subtitles feel like the "cliffnotes" version (at least the German ones, can't judge the French ones). I guess they had to shorten them because of space limitations, but just to show you two examples from the intro:
As you can see, the translations are really bad, even confusing, and I always wondered why Nintendo translated it at all. The story could have been properly explained in the manual, and even without it, you don't even need to understand it to play the game. It's not a visual novel or RPG.
So what I'm saying is: We are getting the inferior 50 Hz version just so we can get the inferior translation. I'm at a loss for words here.
Upon starting the European version, you have to choose either German or French subtitles. The whole game is still completely in English, but short subtitles are added in the intro and for the self-destruct emergency messages.
The menus and explanations you see whenever you pick up a new item, are all in English only.
What's worse though (and what bothered me even back then), is that the subtitles feel like the "cliffnotes" version (at least the German ones, can't judge the French ones). I guess they had to shorten them because of space limitations, but just to show you two examples from the intro:
As you can see, the translations are really bad, even confusing, and I always wondered why Nintendo translated it at all. The story could have been properly explained in the manual, and even without it, you don't even need to understand it to play the game. It's not a visual novel or RPG.
So what I'm saying is: We are getting the inferior 50 Hz version just so we can get the inferior translation. I'm at a loss for words here.
I have a modded super famicom with a 50/60hz mod installed.
PAL games can run in 60hz with no issues whatsoever, as long as they haven't been optimized. For example, after flicking the switch during gameplay, my PAL Super Metroid cart is the same speed and full screen as the NTSC one. Its fucking superb.
However, games with layer 2 effects (super Mario world in various levels/overworld, ALTTP with the lamp) glitch out using the mod.
PAL games can run in 60hz with no issues whatsoever, as long as they haven't been optimized. For example, after flicking the switch during gameplay, my PAL Super Metroid cart is the same speed and full screen as the NTSC one. Its fucking superb.
However, games with layer 2 effects (super Mario world in various levels/overworld, ALTTP with the lamp) glitch out using the mod.
Are there any newly produced SNES systems with a switch built in or special carts with a 50->60hz converter built in? I'd love to play my SNES collection the way they're supposed to play.
Edit: I'm dumb, I have a PAL SNES so it'd obviously have to be modded to output 60hz :|
I did the mod with my old PAL SNES too. Same process, you just don't get the full RGB output that the SFC offers.
Its simply a matter of bending a couple of pins up and soldering them to a switch with a couple of wires and a transistor.
I used to have a SNES modded with a custom BIOS and menu by d4s, but I had to sell that a long time ago.
That thing was glorious.