Sickboy007
Member
Booty said:
Not really, that product was already sold and paid in full. Nice try, though.
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Adam Sessler interview: Xbox One's DRM, Always-Online
- Thread starter whitehawk
- Start date
Not really, that product was already sold and paid in full. Nice try, though.
While I do think the conference was a bit of a mess I can understand the challenges MS is facing pushing towards a digital future with the XB One.
I think the one factor that drives the DRM and online check is the fact that all games are now installed to the hard drive and I am making an assumption here that they can then be played without the disk. That right there causes all kinds of problems as you would then be able to sell the game and keep your copy, or you could just rent it and own it forever. So you need some form of protection to ensure that doesn't happen.
That brings in some form of cd-key and the need to verify them online to ensure they haven't been used before and are valid.
I think the best approach for MS to take is to allow users to register the game to their account or not to. Registering it will require a cd key and will let you install the game to the hard drive and be able to download it from XB Live anytime after. This method requires online verification at whatever time interval to verify that the game is still registered to your account. You should also have the ability to de-activate the game and sell it, trade it as you wish.
If you choose not to register it you need the disk in the system to play and it is not tied to your account so if you lose the disk or sell it then you need to re-buy it to play it again. You would be able to play offline for as long as you want with no online check required.
With these options you would then be able to play, re-sell, borrow and trade their game as much as they want.
I do think that Sony will face similar problems if they allow you to install games to the hard drive unless it is like the 360 where you can install the games but still need the disk in to play.
I think the one factor that drives the DRM and online check is the fact that all games are now installed to the hard drive and I am making an assumption here that they can then be played without the disk. That right there causes all kinds of problems as you would then be able to sell the game and keep your copy, or you could just rent it and own it forever. So you need some form of protection to ensure that doesn't happen.
That brings in some form of cd-key and the need to verify them online to ensure they haven't been used before and are valid.
I think the best approach for MS to take is to allow users to register the game to their account or not to. Registering it will require a cd key and will let you install the game to the hard drive and be able to download it from XB Live anytime after. This method requires online verification at whatever time interval to verify that the game is still registered to your account. You should also have the ability to de-activate the game and sell it, trade it as you wish.
If you choose not to register it you need the disk in the system to play and it is not tied to your account so if you lose the disk or sell it then you need to re-buy it to play it again. You would be able to play offline for as long as you want with no online check required.
With these options you would then be able to play, re-sell, borrow and trade their game as much as they want.
I do think that Sony will face similar problems if they allow you to install games to the hard drive unless it is like the 360 where you can install the games but still need the disk in to play.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
You are absolutely right, in fact, I know several people who have never connected their 360 to the internet. In fact, I myself have connected it sometimes, but only to download something (or for review purposes). They would have lost a lot of people like myself who did connect their 360, but only seldom.
MomoPufflet
Member
I have several friends that don't take their 360s online ever, and convincing my brother to even plug an ethernet cable into his PS3 for 10 seconds to update firmware was an interesting experience. I know it's totally impossible for some gamers to wrap their heads around it but it's not mythical and it's not isolated.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Those users can't have ads blasted to their consoles. They aren't part of Microsoft's new world order.
I don't understand how hard it is to just say that they don't have the details finalized yet.
I don't think so. Most of the guys who did the original Xbox and 360 got axed or left, mostly due to Ballmer.
I don't think so. Most of the guys who did the original Xbox and 360 got axed or left, mostly due to Ballmer.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I can imagine that retailers are going to have an interesting time when they sell this thing to mums and dads and have them returned because little Johnny doesn't have a internet connection in his bedroom.
Karsticles
Member
It's because they said anything at all about it. If they would have said nothing at all about these features, no one would be harping it. But you can't say it works one way and then try to cover it up by saying nothing's finalized.
.la1n
Member
Next gen has truly arrived.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
When they architected the DRM for Xbox One. They must have had a very detailed brief of what they wanted to achieve. I don't understand why they are now saying that things are not finalised yet. How can you design a system and then say you don't know how it works.
According to Aaron Greenberg, assumptions are being made on how the online policy will work:
"@z0mbiepixel A lot of assumptions but very little based on facts. We will share more at E3. We will get it right."
https://mobile.twitter.com/z0mbiepixel/status/337452128614354944?p=v
We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath...
"@z0mbiepixel A lot of assumptions but very little based on facts. We will share more at E3. We will get it right."
https://mobile.twitter.com/z0mbiepixel/status/337452128614354944?p=v
We'll see, but I'm not holding my breath...
I mean it sounds better than contradicting yourself and throwing a bunch of dog shit at everyone, they should just say that they're still working out all the details(which should have been done months if not years ago). Instead we have don't really have any company line or spin and the whole narrative for MS is a big mess.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Does he mean "getting it right" for publishers, or for consumers? I don't even know why I'm asking. I know the answer.
it didn't need to be blazing fast. It just needs to be connected. Geez... Are you telling me most people who can afford a machine like this can not afford to live in an area with an internet connection?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
I thought E3 was about games.
Crimson_Gold
Member
Oh the PR spin will be glorious. If it is nothing like what has been stated, then please come on out and say that. It doesn't take 17 days to do so.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Yes. Why do you think there are people today who own 360s and PS3s and have no Internet connection?
WrenchNinja
Member
Are you telling those people to move? Are you trying to pull an Adam Orth?
I know they probably have stuff planned for E3 but would it really hurt them to clear the air over this now instead of waiting 3 weeks? Do they really want all of us to sit here and speculate our heads off about it for the next 17 days?
Also, if things arent finalized like Major Nelson is saying, then how does Aaron Greenberg so certain of what it is?
Also, if things arent finalized like Major Nelson is saying, then how does Aaron Greenberg so certain of what it is?
I'm guessing that they make a lot more money off of people who are connected to the Internet and their marketplace than people who are just buying games. They could also be assuming that internet access will grow significantly, like when broadband was required for Live.
I am sorry but with MS past track record they won't get it right for consumers. I am sure EA will love it. This is the same company that put Netflix app behind a pay wall. I can access Netflix with out extra payment on every other device on this planet but the 360. There is no way they get this right it will be completely anti-consumer and pro big publisher.
Kotaku said:
Yes, so many assumptions. It's not our fault they can't get their shit together.
cormack12
Gold Member
It's not about affording internet, it's about the availability of the internet. How you can afford something that isn't available in your area? Also, a lot of massive homes are based in rural areas, in the countryside, which doesn't have consistent internet connections. And they are very expensive.
I wanted to ask him something similar. "Getting it right" can mean a million things. Getting it right for investors, getting it right for Balmer, getting it right for publishers, etc.
I just plan to wait until E3 and see what is revealed or clarified then. If it's the same bullshit, I'll be sure to ask him how they got it right.
I guess there's a chance these policies can change (again), but it wouldn't surprise me if this is true. We'll see but the more I think about it, the less I have my hopes up.
At least there's a decent chance Remedy's game will come to the PC eventually. =p
MomoPufflet
Member
I'm morbidly curious about the real-world end result of all this, I won't lie. Also stay tuned for "Gamer banned for showing dick in Uno One, loses access to $10,000 game collection" in a few years
no I am seriously asking. How are people connected today talking on GAF if they do not have access to an intenet connection
I realize a small minority of people in first worls countries do not have internet in remote areas. But anyone surely within a first world county and not remote can access the internet somehow?
Because you know it's kind of a big deal today not just for game machines
And a lot if those xnoxes not connected are due to simply not having WiFi built in or being in a second or third bedroom without household coverage... Times are changing, this is not a kids room box anymore. These are living room boxes
And fixing their fuck-ups. Get rid of online DRM, used game fee, and Kinect having to be plugged in, MS. You all can't be that fucking stupid. Especially the big brother Kinect bullshit.
But how many of those people are buying consoles? Is there a reliable study on the number of people with consoles who can't connect to the Internet?
RedNumberFive
Banned
My Internet is down, and I'm posting from an IPhone. I'm glad that you live in a land of milk, honey, and reliable Internet service. Thanks for being condescending though.
smallios74
Member
Not sure if it has been metioned before, but I just had a thought, with this potential need to activate games online before use, will this also stop people playing games early? Those who use online retailers normally end up getting the game a day or two early, would that mean it would act like steam and you wont be able to unlock game till release day?
IHaveCandy
Banned
Yes. There are millions of 360 and PS3 owners that don't have their systems online.
Assumptions based off of statements from someone near the top of your own company, GreenBerg. Lol, good grief.
cormack12
Gold Member
Not sure. Microsoft have statistics from 2012 though:
Xbox 360 Total Console Sales 57.8 Million
Number of Xbox Live Subscribers 30 Million
Bear in mind, xbox failures, multiple live accounts on one xbox and you probably come in at a 60-40 split as an estimate.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/389080/xbox-360-life-to-date-sales-hit-759-million/
76 million sold, 40 million Xbox Live accounts.
Like i said in the other thread, everything Microsoft wants here will inevitably happen when the userbase accepta digital distribution as the standard. That might be midway through this gen, it might be next gen, but all the backlash proves is that the userbase isn't ready yet.
Therefore, why force it? Why not just offer the digital option and let the technology take it's natural course? When has forcing something like this on a userbase ever worked?
Therefore, why force it? Why not just offer the digital option and let the technology take it's natural course? When has forcing something like this on a userbase ever worked?
babyghost853
Member
Then the videogames market can crash and burn for all I care.
H_Prestige
Banned
He's right in one sense. Whether it's 24/7 or once a day doesn't matter, it still requires an internet connection. MS is automatically cutting off all the console players who never connected their boxes this gen. And that's a lot of people.
But like he said, that number likely includes people owning multiple consoles.
YouEnjoyMySelf
Banned
There needs to be a list made of people who miss the point entirely, like this guy.
If only there were people at Microsoft who could give us facts when answering questions. It's a constant game of pretending that the information people are talking about isn't coming from Microsoft employees.
There's nothing to " get right" . Either you put a disc in a system and it plays or it doesn't. This isn't a trick question MS is being asked.
Wasnt there a report back in 2010 or 2011 that said that 20% of Xbox 360 consoles didnt connect to the internet?
EDIT: Here.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28058/Study_PS3_Has_Highest_Percentage_Of_Connected_Consoles.php
I dont know how accurate this stuff is.
EDIT: Here.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/28058/Study_PS3_Has_Highest_Percentage_Of_Connected_Consoles.php
I dont know how accurate this stuff is.
MrGreencastle
Member
I imagine you could pre install the game but it would not be playable until launch day. I expect the majority of games will be available digitally as well.
oh geezus Christ it's not condescending stop that victim stuff please... it's reality man... so if your iphone connects do you not have the ability to get a cell provider connection for home or is that a US thing?
Where in the world are you located?
how long has it been down? does it go down every week? I'm just saying most people are probably over reacting to that and making a point... yea I get it the internet is not always up but to say most people (who might buy this device) can not have any connection to it nearly every day is disingenuous.
Oh I agree, which is what's making this whole thing even more laughable.
Maybe they can iron out some of the policies (though it depends what contracts they have with whom) but really you think they will change major stuff like Kinect integration in 19 days? (or 5 months, for that matter).
WrenchNinja
Member
Maybe theyre posting from their phone, maybe theyre posting from school or work internet. just having access isnt the same as having consistent, reliable and fast access without caps.
Youre right a lot of the world does use the internet for everything. Which is why making a box completely reliant on it is completely fucking stupid when a lot of the world hasnt gotten its shit together with this. If you think Microsoft is going to push the world forward with this when broadband infrastructure is so monopolized and stagnant, you should reconsider that thought.
Times are changing, but theyre not changing fast enough. We were talking about this DD future five years ago and its still not happening any time soon at the rate things are going.
I think the only reason they had the unveiling the way they did was to get all this crap out before E3. They figured that they could spin it and control the message better than they have thus far.
Then at E3 they could say "Hey, look! Games!" However they weren't prepared for as big a backlash as happened. It's just a huge SNAFU.
Then at E3 they could say "Hey, look! Games!" However they weren't prepared for as big a backlash as happened. It's just a huge SNAFU.