Support NeoGAF

[Guileless]

They will sell less games I think...

But will they?

Have you ever actually been in a Gamestop for a while and observed the transactions? A huge shadow economy of people who never buy a new game exists. I've seen people walk to the register with 5-6 used games at a time. Will they completely give up the hobby because of DRM and theoretical consumer's rights arguments? I would be surprised.

 

[Sean]

The thing with the Xbone DRM is that there were numerous rumors and leaks that mention online DRM. This is a first for PS4 and it's even an unsure thing.

Like I said, having a campaign is still good to ensure we don't want it.

This is not the first time this rumor came up. The very first Orbis/PS4 leak from March 28, 2012 said it would have anti-used games measures built in: http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details

Just like the next Xbox/Durango, we've heard from multiple sources that the Orbis will likewise have some kind of anti-used games measures built into the console. Here's how our main source says it's currently shaping up: new games for the system will be available one of two ways, either on a Blu-Ray disc or as a PSN download (yes, even full retail titles). If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account, after which you can play the game, save the whole thing to your HDD, or peg it as "downloaded" in your account history and be free to download it at a later date.

Don't think you can simply buy the disc and stay offline, though; like many PC games these days, you'll need to have a PSN account and be online to even get the thing started. UPDATE - Since some people seem to have taken this to mean the console requires an "always on" intenet connection, we've heard nothing about that. All we've heard is that you need to authenticate a new game online via the PSN.

If you then decide to trade that disc in, the pre-owned customer picking it up will be limited in what they can do. While our sources were unclear on how exactly the pre-owned customer side of things would work, it's believed used games will be limited to a trial mode or some other form of content restriction, with consumers having to pay a fee to unlock/register the full game.

This would allow used games to continue to be sold at outlets such as GameStop, while also appeasing major publishers who would no longer have to implement their own haphazard approaches to "online passes".

Since then:

1) A GAF user discovered a patent for for suppressing second-hand game sales filed on 9/12/2012 by SCEJ (thread). Of course lots of patents are filed and never used so this doesn't necessarily confirm anything, but it shows Sony were researching methods for doing this just a few months ago.
2) All the other information in that initial Kotaku PS4 leak has since checked out (Holiday 2013 launch, no backwards compatibility, etc)
3) Sony spokesperson in February after the PS4 reveal responded they "will have more information to share regarding used games later this year."
4) EA dropped their online pass just recently, probably cause the new consoles handle this for them
5) The Microsoft rumors became true
6) Geoff Keighley says his sources told him something similar
7) Sony insider on GAF said this was indeed in the works but may have been put on hold Friday after all the Xbone backlash

The rumors haven't been as frequent as Microsoft's but there is quite a bit of evidence pointing to them doing the same. That's why tons of people are tweeting Sony executives right now.

 

[LowEndTorque]

I thought Kaz or Tretton or someone already said a while back that they will leave that choice up to the individual publishers. What changed since then?

 

[Godslay]

Games that have DRM/require Internet will need a license but those that don't will work offline just like they do now.

Maybe, I highly doubt it though.

What's the point of that if they want to control used games on the platform? This applies to both Sony and MS. If the point is to control the used games market as well as piracy it has to connect at some point. You can't have a difference in what games have DRM and what game doesn't. Has to be unified.

 

[sephi22]

thanks bro..

On topic:

You guys deserve this shit, were having too much fun shitting on m$ : /

it's a lose-lose situation though and frankly if it happens, than pc gaming is sure looking awesome by the minute

Go home dude, you're drunk

 

[quest]

But will they?

Have you ever actually been in a Gamestop for a while and observed the transactions? A huge shadow economy of people who never buy a new game exists. I've seen people walk to the register with 5-6 used games at a time. Will they completely give up the hobby because of DRM and theoretical consumer's rights arguments? I would be surprised.

Yeah because this effectively doubles the price of games for those who sell games after beating them or sick of them. If you buy a game you hate guess what you are out 59.99. People only have so much money they will spend on gaming. Salaries have stagnated for a decade or longer for the middle class. Also will push even more parents to give kids tablets as game macihes. 60 dollar games vs 1 dollar games. Used/lending/renting help a ton here to make gaming affordable for the family. So this will wipe out console gaming and it will be replaced by mobile gaming.

 

[yurinka]

If MS implements game DRM and Sony not, a lot of people will buy PS4 and not XB1.

And 3rd party publishers will follow the system with a bigger user base so they won't care of this 'piracy' / second hand issue.

Look at the start of the current gen before the PS3 piracy : PS3 was secure against piracy and 360 not, but 3rd party supported more 360 during these years because it had a bigger userbase and was easier to develop.

Sure, publishers will want a piece of the 2nd hand money even if they already sold the game. But if PS4 doesn't implement this DRM and XB1 does, 3rd partys won't stop supporting it because of it.

Something that proves it is that MS only shown 1 month timed exclusive DLC as 3rd party support at their console reveal. Not exclusive 3rd party games and not support of devs who previously were exclusive to other platforms.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

I never felt like this before. Going into a new generation of gaming is supposed to be full of excitement and anticipation. Instead, I am totally dreading the future of this industry. Gaming and policies has changed so much in this industry. Sounds like corporate greed to me and I said it before, but greed will eventually destroy what we love.

 

[alstein]

But will they?

Have you ever actually been in a Gamestop for a while and observed the transactions? A huge shadow economy of people who never buy a new game exists. I've seen people walk to the register with 5-6 used games at a time. Will they completely give up the hobby because of DRM and theoretical consumer's rights arguments? I would be surprised.

They don't have to give up the hobby, they just don't have to buy a next-gen system for a long while.

PS2's lasted a long while.

If this is true, and this is what I suspected, I'll blame the publishers, and deal with it on a case-by-case basis. No need to buy next-gen at launch anyways. This isn't my biggest concern- the end of free online MP would cost me more than any used game bricking.

 

[vpance]

One time authentication is fine I think. That idea of a used copy being stuck in trial mode until unlock sounds ok.

Gamestop can still hock their used games but it's going to depend on whatever the publisher prices their unlocks at.

And if you lend the game to a friend, you just need to unregister it from your account first.

 

[gaming_noob]

I'm just going to rebuy the PS3 and stick with that.

 

[Pennywise]

This is not the first time this rumor came up. The very first Orbis/PS4 leak from March 28, 2012 said it would have anti-used games measures built in: http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details



Since then:

1) A GAF user discovered a patent for for suppressing second-hand game sales filed on 9/12/2012 by SCEJ (thread). Of course lots of patents are filed and never used so this doesn't necessarily confirm anything, but it shows Sony were researching methods for doing this just a few months ago.
2) All the other information in that initial Kotaku PS4 leak has since checked out (Holiday 2013 launch, no backwards compatibility, etc)
3) Sony spokesperson in February after the PS4 reveal responded they "will have more information to share regarding used games later this year."
4) EA dropped their online pass just recently, probably cause the new consoles handle this for them
5) The Microsoft rumors became true
6) Geoff Keighley says his sources told him something similar
7) Sony insider on GAF said this was indeed in the works but may have been put on hold Friday after all the Xbone backlash

The rumors haven't been as frequent as Microsoft's but there is quite a bit of evidence pointing to them doing the same. That's why tons of people are tweeting Sony executives right now.

Okay we've got two sources including the pope.

But there's one point that about the rumor from Kotaku that doesn't fit in.
Michael Denny already said that no internet connection would be required AT ALL.

 

[Original Man]

this thread got 1300 posts because of a rumor?

 

[Tripolygon]

Is there any truth to this gaf?

 

[statham]

My guess: Activistion, EA etc. want to implement this, Sony doesn't. So third party titles will have a fee for used games, 1st party won't.

Only thing that makes sense (I hope).

but sony aready does and ms doesnt

 

[nib95]

I'm still fairly hopeful that Sony won't be as stupid, greedy or anti consumer as Microsoft. They'll just leave it up to the publishers as they said in the past, that way we can throw pitchforks at those publishers instead.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I just hope Sony remembers what hubris did to the PS3. They've shown that they do so far with the PS4.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

But will they?

Have you ever actually been in a Gamestop for a while and observed the transactions? A huge shadow economy of people who never buy a new game exists. I've seen people walk to the register with 5-6 used games at a time. Will they completely give up the hobby because of DRM and theoretical consumer's rights arguments? I would be surprised.

I realyl think they will buy less new games. Who is going to take a gamble on an unproven product that the consumer might hate for $60-$70 when the return policies or trade in deals for it could be lackluster or problematic? Those stacks of games people buy at Gamestop to my knowledge are normally used games and they can be returned in 7 days if I am correct and they are typically noticeably or substantially cheaper, so it is less of a financial risk for the consumer as opposed to new games. No more borrowing, renting or lending games. People making less money in the economy equates to less new game sales most likely unless your name is COD, Assassin's Creed or Madden which are not so common in this industry now. Consumers are different now. They can stick to current/previous generation for much longer and be just as happy playing one to 2 games per year or even longer without even looking at another game. Also, that means less experimentation from the consumer.

 

[IHaveCandy]

but sony aready does and ms doesnt

Well it's pretty hard to justify charging your customers $60 a year to play games online and have them pay $10 to play a game online if they bought it used.

 

[IHaveCandy]

But will they?

Have you ever actually been in a Gamestop for a while and observed the transactions? A huge shadow economy of people who never buy a new game exists. I've seen people walk to the register with 5-6 used games at a time. Will they completely give up the hobby because of DRM and theoretical consumer's rights arguments? I would be surprised.

They buy it more because they can return it if they don't like it. Requiring new purchases just leads you to only buying what you know you will definitely like. No experimentation on the customer.

 

[Kickz]

LOL Sony, if they do this all of the goodwill goes down the drain. I mean are freakin kidding me? Xbone gives you an opening and you fall on your own grenade?

WiiUPS3gen

 

[Donthizz#]

Geoff Keighley is going to get black-listed by Sony if this turns out to be false.

 

[web01]

Keighley is not a reliable source has always been a Microsoft shill.
Just saying things to take the heat of Microsoft.

Not that I don't think Sony has bad DRM in the works, its inevitable and common sense they would do something unfortunately. How bad is the real question.

 

[iamshadowlark]

LOL Sony, if they do this all of the goodwill goes down the drain. I mean are freakin kidding me? Xbone gives you an opening and you fall on your own grenade?

WiiUPS3gen

Well if the OP is anything to go by, they've switched there stances after the Microsoft backlash.

 

[Kyon]

Keighley is not a reliable source has always been a Microsoft shill.
Just saying things to take the heat of Microsoft.

Not that I don't think Sony has bad DRM in the works, its inevitable and common sense they would do something unfortunately. How bad is the real question.

Let ha know.

 

[ginger ninja]

Sony doesn't get any special treatment from me. They go down the Microsoft path I won't be getting one, simple as that.

this is just what i meant to say, i have always been a playstation owner but doesn't look like i am gonna purchase a console next gen, not at least for first couple of years..first it's these stupid ass decisions and than again console gaming has become really stale in last few years, whereas pc gaming is thriving

when xbone drm info became public, a lot of posters( including me) were under the impression that sony won't follow suite, but of course they will..

i said we deserve this because well..i enjoy seeing people's hope get crushed including my own

 

[FlyingTeacup]

This is not the first time this rumor came up. The very first Orbis/PS4 leak from March 28, 2012 said it would have anti-used games measures built in: http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details



Since then:

1) A GAF user discovered a patent for for suppressing second-hand game sales filed on 9/12/2012 by SCEJ (thread). Of course lots of patents are filed and never used so this doesn't necessarily confirm anything, but it shows Sony were researching methods for doing this just a few months ago.
2) All the other information in that initial Kotaku PS4 leak has since checked out (Holiday 2013 launch, no backwards compatibility, etc)
3) Sony spokesperson in February after the PS4 reveal responded they "will have more information to share regarding used games later this year."
4) EA dropped their online pass just recently, probably cause the new consoles handle this for them
5) The Microsoft rumors became true
6) Geoff Keighley says his sources told him something similar
7) Sony insider on GAF said this was indeed in the works but may have been put on hold Friday after all the Xbone backlash

The rumors haven't been as frequent as Microsoft's but there is quite a bit of evidence pointing to them doing the same. That's why tons of people are tweeting Sony executives right now.

nice, this bit is interesting. Seeing how ms was being pummeled for that, I reckon sony would take a maybe later strategy. I still think they would implement something in the future.

 

[Silverthorn]

No crap they built a camera to package into every console just to do that man. MS and Sony are no different just MS was more open about their intentions.

Everyone deserves this shit because we were shitting on MS (who REALLY uses M$???) for doing this exact thing we don't want? Logic, how does it work?

There is no logic..this is the internet and Neogaf...its just bullshit feeding on bullshit creating an alternate reality....nutty place...but fun.

 

[statham]

Well it's pretty hard to justify charging your customers $60 a year to play games online and have them pay $10 to play a game online if they bought it used.

letswait until he hear about the tiers

 

[IHaveCandy]

Well if the OP is anything to go by, they've switched there stances after the Microsoft backlash.

I'm imagining/hoping something like this.

EA- Sony you have to block used games.

Sony- What? Why would we do that? Customers expect that.

Ubisoft- We're losing a ton of sales to GameStop.

Sony- But customers will be upset. Why would they buy our system?

Activision- Don't worry. Blizzard and I know how to coax them into just accepting their fate. They will not struggle.

Sony- Alright, well, I'll think about it. You guys might be right.

*Xbox One debacle*

Sony- You guys are assholes. They fucking hate it. Did you not see that GameStop poll? We'll take the 90% along with used games.

 

[Guileless]

Somewhere tonight in America, Joe Sixpack ventures out to a strip mall. He got $15 worth of gas, $10 worth of Taco Bell, a 12 pack of Budweiser (with the American flag can design), and kills 20 minutes at Gamestop, eventually buying a used copy of Need For Speed Most Wanted (the first one) for $5. He watches the Coca Cola 600 and kills the 12 pack and then pops the game in and experiences the cutting edge of 2005. He plays it until 3 am and never thinks about the game again. He does not defeat Razor. He does back to Gamestop the next week and buys a new used game. This is the used game experience that people romanticize.

 

[Silverthorn]

this thread got 1300 posts because of a rumor?

Is a slow news day...and the MS apologists and fans are desperate for others to share in disappointment and despair....misery loves company.

 

[shola]

if sony wont do it, third party's will, either way your screwed

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

Somewhere tonight in America, Joe Sixpack ventures out to a strip mall. He got $15 worth of gas, $10 worth of Taco Bell, a 12 pack of Budweiser (with the American flag can design), and kills 20 minutes at Gamestop, eventually buying a used copy of Need For Speed Most Wanted (the first one) for $5. He watches the Coca Cola 600 and kills the 12 pack and then pops the game in and experiences the cutting edge of 2005. He plays it until 3 am and never thinks about the game again. He does not defeat Razor. He does back to Gamestop the next week and buys a new used game. This is the used game experience that people romanticize.

Or selling your games on Craigist/Ebay/Amazon. Trading in said games for store credit at GS. Buying a used game for $30 when the new version is $40. Romanticize? No. Being against a corporation removing a right we've had for decades? Yes.

 

[Godslay]

My guess: Activistion, EA etc. want to implement this, Sony doesn't. So third party titles will have a fee for used games, 1st party won't.

Only thing that makes sense (I hope).

I'm imagining/hoping something like this.

EA- Sony you have to block used games.

Sony- What? Why would we do that? Customers expect that.

Ubisoft- We're losing a ton of sales to GameStop.

Sony- But customers will be upset. Why would they buy our system?

Activision- Don't worry. Blizzard and I know how to coax them into just accepting their fate. They will not struggle.

Sony- Alright, well, I'll think about it. You guys might be right.

*Xbox One debacle*

Sony- You guys are assholes. They fucking hate it. Did you not see that GameStop poll? We'll take the 90% along with used games.

Goddamn. Thanks for the laughs.

 

[nib95]

if sony wont do it, third party's will, either way your screwed

But at least that way we can avoid buying those games that do this and not the console entirely.

 

[Pennywise]

if sony wont do it, third party's will, either way your screwed

No.
Because I could boycott those third party's then.
That's quite a difference skipping a few games and not the entire console.

 

[Phonomezer]

Why is the reaction so different when its Sony?

Oh.

 

[Tricky I Shadow]

Whatever....couldn’t care less if this is true or not to be honest.

No way in hell am I missing out on all the great PS4 exclusives.

 

[ginger ninja]

WTF?

Also PC gaming has had the system for a while so idk what you mean

the false equivalency is really pissing me off, the amount of flexibility PC gives gamers itself makes up for it..it's not just drm alone, it's other things too..console gaming is becoming ridiculously expensive and with shit like this, i am better off buying cheap games from steam

 

[nib95]

Why is the reaction so different when its Sony?

Oh.

Because Sony isn't doing it. Even based off the rumour about the rumour. Read the damn thread.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Why is the reaction so different when its Sony?

Oh.

Please describe the reaction you are perceive is occurring.

 

[Silverthorn]

Why is the reaction so different when it's Sony?

Oh.

Because currently its a rumour and heresay. Unlike for Microsoft when it came from MS officially. If Sony says the same you'll get the same reaction. Apples and Oranges.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

this thread got 1300 posts because of a rumor?

That's true, but remember those little rumors circulating about the XBone at first? Yeah, look how that turned out. In gaming, one little rumor normally spreads into some rumors and then into a lot of rumors and then materializes into truth. We will see at E3 though. Hopefully, this isn't true, but I have feeling that it is.

 

[Boke1879]

Why is the reaction so different when its Sony?

Oh.

What's different. Nothing is confirmed and users here are taking a preemptive effort and letting Sony know we don't want this.

 

[PrivateWHudson]

Yeah because this effectively doubles the price of games for those who sell games after beating them or sick of them. If you buy a game you hate guess what you are out 59.99. People only have so much money they will spend on gaming. Salaries have stagnated for a decade or longer for the middle class. Also will push even more parents to give kids tablets as game macihes. 60 dollar games vs 1 dollar games. Used/lending/renting help a ton here to make gaming affordable for the family. So this will wipe out console gaming and it will be replaced by mobile gaming.

Yep. If used games can't be had for under $20, and games can't be traded amongst friends our family it's out. I buy used for the kids, and new launch day games for myself. They can play on a tablet and I'll play on the PC. Maybe I'll be back the following generation when the kids are teenagers.

 

[Phonomezer]

Because Sony isn't doing it. Even based off the rumour about the rumour. Read the damn thread.

Yes I have, besides the point. The first couple of pages feel like a eulogy rather than any genuine concern about this being actually happening.

I'm glad it's not.

 

[timetokill]

It is endlessly amusing to keep seeing this invented narrative about Good Guy Sony being forced into DRM by evil Microsoft and publishers.

 

[nib95]

Because currently its a rumour and heresay. Unlike for Microsoft when it came from MS officially. If Sony says the same you'll get the same reaction. Apples and Oranges.

The official response from Sony has been that they'd leave it up to publishers but not do it themselves. The official response from Microsoft has been the opposite.

 

[Silverthorn]

That's true, but remember those little rumors circulating about the XBone at first? Yeah, look how that turned out. In gaming, one little rumor normally spreads into some rumors and then into a lot of rumors and then materializes into truth. We will see at E3 though. Hopefully, this isn't true, but I have feeling that it is.

Those were not little rumours...it was consistent, widespread and from many sources. Not the same...yet.