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[jacobs34]

If Sony doesnt have some form of DRM and MS does Sony are just tossing decent 3rd party support out the window.

Sony really are in a touch spot here. If I was them I wouldnt rush into anything.

If I was them I would be having meetings with gamestop and other large retailers and asking for used game sales profits to be shared with them and publishers.
If GS doesnt want to share then Sony can DRM and take it by force.

It's an interesting thought, perhaps Sony and Microsoft are using threats of online DRM as leverage to get a bigger percentage of used game profits. Given what happened with Gamestop's stock after the initial rumors hit with MSoft, I have to believe it's a pretty big bargaining chip.

 

[Kyon]

Finally Sony is getting called out by the press.
They have to be very clear about this too, they are in good position, but in these internet times this can get very ugly very fast.
Do they want a xbone highlights youtube video mocking them with more than 5 million views too?

Sony isn't being called out by anyone you didn't even read the OP SMH

 

[Linkhero1]

The only two next gen sequels I really want to play are Fallout and Bioshock. I don't think I'd be missing much if I stick with my steam sales. If I'm going to have to deal with DRM, I might as well do it on the best platform possible.

 

[Eusis]

It's an interesting thought, perhaps Sony and Microsoft are using threats of online DRM as leverage to get a bigger percentage of used game profits. Given what happened with Gamestop's stock after the initial rumors hit with MSoft, I have to believe it's a pretty big bargaining chip.

Would be funny if GameStop cutting a deal (and maybe Amazon? But they probably don't see the most used revenue anyway) lets us avoid this. We'd still have sharing and all, but no one sensible is going to speak out or publicly move against that, GameStop's not popular with many of us and it's detached and impersonal for most of us, but saying you can't share with friends? Your family? That's arguably offensive.

 

[IceBreak]

I'm okay with a DRM linking games to accounts as long as:

1. Internet isn't required. This could be done with discs that have some sort of small write capacity on them to link them to a user. I thought this was rumored to be on the way for Sony?​

2. Users on the system can play that game as long as the game's account is also on there (like the PS3 does currently by allowing for 2 active systems per PSN ID).​

If you want used games, you are enjoying a dying medium. And the folks that are all like "Well, I'll go play on steam!" are being either ignorant or shortsighted. Steam has no used game market. That also means it doesn't have to worry about a used game market for it's sales. When/if the PS4 and XBone are in the same position, they could very easily match Steam sales. If that's the most profitable way to make money for Steam, it's only logical that it would be for the consoles at that point with no used sales to worry about. And in the end, every company out there is about the money. Yeah, even Valve.

 

[BobTheFork]

"Games' will not crash, it can't.

They long as people want to play game, games will be made.

The consoles and the companies that make them may crash and die but we will still play games.

If everyone rejects MS and Sony then fine. You may have to play games in a way that isn't what you are used to but you will find your games.

If it all goes to shit, I'll just play Cook, Serve, Delicious! and Dungeons of Dredmoor from now on.

Don't get so attached to a company or a name or a system that you feel you have to accept something you aren't happy with.

 

[dreamer3kx]

Doritos, Mountain Dew and Spotify.

 

[vpance]

So you're saying the only reason people buy used games is because Gamestop exists.

Uh, no.

The main reason people buy used is because they feel the current asking price for new games is just too high. This is also why many people trade in their used games towards new ones, a practice that Gamestop actively encourages with trade-in promos.

Another reason people buy used is because the industry markets games as disposable commodities with brief shelf lives, and retailers treat them as such. If you're interested in older titles, buying used is pretty much your only option.

Gamestop's not the root cause. The problem is that publishers don't want to address the root cause. They don't want to change how games are developed or marketed or priced. They'll do anything in their power to avoid doing that, to the point where they're actually trying to get people to accept the idea of not owning the things they purchase. That's pretty goddamn scary if you ask me.

Isn't mostly the first month or so sales that publishers are really counting on? Just as long as those sales are DRM'd, the rest of the time from then until the game becomes super cheap Gamestop can handle as usual.

 

[jacobs34]

Would be funny if GameStop cutting a deal (and maybe Amazon? But they probably don't see the most used revenue anyway) lets us avoid this. We'd still have sharing and all, but no one sensible os going to speak out or publicly move against that, GameStop's not popular with many of us and it's detached and impersonal for most of us, but saying you can't share with friends? Your family? That's arguably offensive.

Yeah. I agree.

 

[True Underdog]

I...

...

<3

 

[Pennywise]

Finally Sony is getting called out by the press.
They have to be very clear about this too, they are in good position, but in these internet times this can get very ugly very fast.
Do they want a xbone highlights youtube video mocking them with more than 5 million views too?

It's ONE rumor.
MS basically confirmed it themselves while there is still hope for the PS4.
Until there's something more specific as the dorito pope, I won't accept it.

 

[Mithos]

The PC has had used game DRM for around eight years now.

And I can tell by the amount of games I've bought on PC since that "birth", *hint it ain't many*, will probably own more games within the first year on the Wii U when I pick it up.

 

[Replicant]

Sony has to be thinking, wow that went really poorly for Microsoft, what type of language do we use to not get everyone as pissed at us even though we still need to provide the same DRM or risk really pissing off the 3rd party publishers.

Who are these 3rd party publishers though? I really want to know especially if they are the root of these problems. If anyone has any info, it'd be appreciated. It's certainly not Ubisoft since they seem to be putting everything on every console (ie Wii U doesn't support online DRM or used game DRM and yet they get everything Ubi puts out). So who is it? EA?

 

[10101]

PC gaming. For forever.

Lol you could resell PC games though, hardly a restrictive practice.

EDIT: it a fair point thou they were licenced afaik.

 

[Minions]

"Games' will not crash, it can't.

They long as people want to play game, games will be made.

The consoles and the companies that make them may crash and die but we will still play games.

If everyone rejects MS and Sony then fine. You may have to play games in a way that isn't what you are used to but you will find your games.

If it all goes to shit, I'll just play Cook, Serve, Delicious! and Dungeons of Dredmoor from now on.

Don't get so attached to a company or a name or a system that you feel you have to accept something you aren't happy with.

Tell that to the last time games crashed....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983

 

[RedRedSuit]

Absolutely wrong. Otherwise I and many others wouldn't walk into GameStop and pick up a new copy of a game rather than the used that is a few steps down and a few dollars cheaper. Plenty of people choose new over used every day.

You also admit to never buying used. So you should know that people don't just buy used because they can, but usually because they have to.

Nah. People typically buy used because they don't know any better, and used is somewhat cheaper. I know when I was a lot younger and not a game message board nerd, it's just something I didn't think about. Here's one for $45... here's one for $50... $45 is a good deal... cool... I'll get that one.

Years later I thought about where the money goes and how it works, and now you couldn't get me to buy a used game (assuming it's still in "print" of course) at gunpoint. The thought of some artist working 80 hours a week and then getting laid off, while GameStop pulls in record profits, just so I could save a lousy $5, is upsetting.

I bought used out of ignorance... not because I "had" to save the $5.

 

[Takuya]

Sony is listening.

 

[Silverthorn]

Personally I think Sony is going to back out of or heavily modify their original plans in regards to DRM as a last minute move to ensure they are not seen in the same light as MS.

At this point MS is trying to figure out what they hell to do and might back out as well or will heavily modify their plans.

They might end up doing something shadey and use a light DRM structure initially and then tweak it over time to fit their original vision.

But the reality is no one even knows what Sony's specific plans were/are. All this talk from non-Sony folks are just conjecture and heresay. The only points that are official are the ones from MS management mouths on the xbone.

 

[baekshi]

#foreverlegend

 

[dreamer3kx]

Nah. People typically buy used because they don't know any better, and used is somewhat cheaper. I know when I was a lot younger and not a game message board nerd, it's just something I didn't think about. Here's one for $45... here's one for $50... $45 is a good deal... cool... I'll get that one.

Years later I thought about where the money goes and how it works, and now you couldn't get me to buy a used game (assuming it's still in "print" of course) at gunpoint.

I bought used out of ignorance... not because I "had" to save the $5.

You can save much more purchasing used, GS is not the only option you know, I purchase used on gaf all the time, Amazon, Ebay, purchase most of my stuff used.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

God damn, I love my life.

 

[quickwhips]

Sony is listening.

No crap they built a camera to package into every console just to do that man. MS and Sony are no different just MS was more open about their intentions.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Do not want, I just want a generation like we have now, but with faster consoles, prettier graphics and a better UI.

IS IT THAT HARD TO WANT NICE THINGS?

When greed is involved, yeah it is hard unfortunately.


We'll will see what happens at E3 hopefully, but I still think the PS4 sounds too good to be true while Microsoft seems to be screwing up in so many areas.

 

[shinra-bansho]

It's a PR battle now, effectively both Microsoft and Sony are going to institute the same type of draconian DRM.

A lot of what makes Microsoft's mooted DRM (seem) draconian is in that it turns a retail game into a disc-less game. It acts like retail purchases are the same as digital purchases.

All games must be installed to the hard drive, content is tied to an account and the disc is no longer necessary.

Because of that some sort of check is obviously needed to prevent you installing the game to dozens of systems.

Thus:

• online authentication
• no lending or gifting after use
• no private transactions

An RFID based system where the disc is still required wouldn't necessitate such outcomes - depending upon how it is implemented - while still reaping a cut of the "organised" trade through places like GameStop and still proving a very effective anti-piracy measure.

 

[Kyon]

It's ONE rumor.
MS basically confirmed it themselves while there is still hope for the PS4.
Until there's something more specific as the dorito pope, I won't accept it.

Tell them.

I wouldn't be surprised if he said that to get attention/clicks tbh

 

[BobTheFork]

Tell that to the last time games crashed....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983

lol come on, the entire world has changed.

there was almost no information about the games before they came out and a single distribution system that was %90 on one console.

It crashed because people were feed up with limited options and a glut of games they couldn't parse before playing.

Please don't make that comparison.

Anyone can make a game and get it to potential consumers without carts or publishers.

The entire industry and can crash and we will still get games.

1983

 

[ULTROS!]

It's ONE rumor.
MS basically confirmed it themselves while there is still hope for the PS4.
Until there's something more specific as the dorito pope, I won't accept it.

The thing with the Xbone DRM is that there were numerous rumors and leaks that mention online DRM. This is a first for PS4 and it's even an unsure thing.

Like I said, having a campaign is still good to ensure we don't want it.

 

[Syphon Filter]

No crap they built a camera to package into every console just to do that man. MS and Sony are no different just MS was more open about their intentions.

it was never confirmed if Sony will pack the camera.

 

[Pennywise]

Tell them.

I wouldn't be surprised if he said that to get attention/clicks tbh

I wouldn't go that far, he will surely have a source.
But as I said, it's ONE rumor and we don't even know his source.

 

[RedRedSuit]

You can save much more purchasing used, GS is not the only option you know, I purchase used on gaf all the time, Amazon, Ebay, purchase most of my stuff used.

Agreed, you *can*.

Most people don't though. Most people just go to GameStop and equivalent places. Thus the problem.

That's why, if these guys are going to do this, they should "just" strike a deal with GameStop (etc.) to skim a few percent off all used sales and send them to the publisher + console maker. No extra DRM, no Big Brother BS, transparency to the user, borrowing and rentals not affected, and private selling is left alone too.

Not saying that will save this dying industry, but if they really want to address this particular issue, that would be the most tenable way IMO.

 

[Mpl90]

...Wait, online requiring DRM for PS4 too? Is that what the rumour says? Please, for the love of Gods, be' offline and let publishers choice if doing it or not, I want Japan on PS4

 

[Takuya]

No crap they built a camera to package into every console just to do that man. MS and Sony are no different just MS was more open about their intentions.

If we all had PS4s that would be a valid comment, but alas...

 

[Eusis]

The thing with the Xbone DRM is that there were numerous rumors and leaks that mention online DRM. This is a first for PS4 and it's even an unsure thing.

Like I said, having a campaign is still good to ensure we don't want it.

I do wonder if they may've been cobbling it at the last second as Microsoft ran with it and publishers tried pressuring Sony to do it, assuming these leaks are fully for real. It'd also explain the wishy washy tone awhile back and the fact they can pull out so quickly, they weren't fully committed, it was sounding good... then everyone threw hell and they turned around going "Nope."

 

[Kyon]

I wouldn't go that far, he will surely have a source.
But as I said, it's ONE rumor and we don't even know his source.

Yeah one rumor with no real source and unsure VS multiple leaks all coming true that included the always online, multiple retailers talking about it, their VP talking about it twice, that one guy on twitter that got fired.

Yeah this is not happening

 

[SMT]

Sometimes, you'd be hunting a title for like ever, and you can only get it used.
Wouldn't be a bummer if you had spent all that time and money tracking it down, and had to pay a fee on top of your lost hours of research as soon as you pop into the console?

I'd be pissed.

 

[shinra-bansho]

...Wait, online requiring DRM for PS4 too? Is that what the rumour says? Please, for the love of Gods, be' offline and let publishers choice if doing it or not, I want Japan on PS4

It won't be online-requiring, but there could be DRM.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Lol Genius again.

 

[i-Lo]

#foreverlegend

 

[Freki]

https://twitter.com/DaveMeltzerGAF/status/338793167958728705

Done my part

Honest question: Is this supposed to be sarcastic, a poor attempt on trolling or is this your actual opinion?

@yosp hello yoshida-san can you please disable used game for ps4 to help protect the industry?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

As long as there's no always online bullshit I'll still buy a PS4.

But if people are gonna make a big noise about no used games on PS4 then I'll happily join in the crowd.

 

[Slime]

No surprise here.

It was naive to think that any of these companies was exempt from anti-consumer douchebaggery. Sony in particular have a lovely history, what with rootkits and being the only first party to use some form of used game DRM (PSN Passes) this gen. Hell, you can say they were finally pioneers of something for once. They've clearly been waiting to jump on this for some time.

No amount of tech specs, positive PR, or love for indie developers makes this OK. Sony's "we love you gamerz!!1" bullshit makes so much sense now. They've just been through so many bouts of negative fan feedback so often, they've become experts on how to make the pill easier to swallow when they finally decide to fuck them over again.

I hope they reverse their decision, somehow, but I doubt it.

RIP game ownership.

 

[Godslay]

It won't be online-requiring, but there could be DRM.

Has to be for it to work. At the very least you will have to connect to link a game to an account. Might not have to check in every 24 hours, but if you want to install anything going forward you will have to connect. It's just about the only way it will work.

 

[Yagharek]

Sony did have form for this kind of thing during PS3 era.

- Other OS held hostage to firmware updates
- Online DRM optional for publishers to implement (Final Fight, Bionic Commando Rearmed 2)
- One of the first to implement online passes alongside EA

Their patents give pause too - notably the patent for watching adverts and having to respond 'product name' to continue. Patents don't mean they will use them, but they do mean they can.

Personally (analogy only) I would be treating Sony right now like an alleged criminal, in principle. Innocent until proven guilty, but not allowed to leave the district. Microsoft on the other hand have had bail refused.

 

[The Jason]

I don't think there will be system wide DRM, Sony already said the console will work offline. But it will be up the the publishers, and so
games with DRM will say "online required" and the boxed version will have a serial.

No problem

 

[Alligatorjandro]

Not surprising.Game makers want to make more money.That is the only reason for a system banning used games.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Seriously, I am sticking to my that my controversial notion that next generation will be terrible from a consumer standpoint. Great games, but lots of anti-consumer tactics, especially if this is true which I have a feeling there is a catch even with PS4. I might just stick with current generation if I feel like I am getting screwed and since I do not like PC gaming, I suppose I do not have many options. For people embracing next generation with open arms, better speak up before these companies destroy the hobby we all love. Of course you will have people stand up and defend for companies no matter what, so I am probably in the minority.

 

[Suikoguy]

No surprise here.

It was naive to think that any of these companies was exempt from anti-consumer douchebaggery. Sony in particular have a lovely history, what with rootkits and being the only first party to use some form of used game DRM (PSN Passes) this gen. Hell, you can say they were finally pioneers of something for once. They've clearly been waiting to jump on this for some time.

Wow, talk about a disingenuous paragraph. How much more crap can you pack in?

1.) The Root Kit was by a different division of Sony.
2.) Online passes were a bit more justifiable, since MS charged for Xbox Live. Also, saying "only first party" is hilarious, cause there was only one other first party that took online seriously.

 

[Godslay]

I don't think there will be system wide DRM, Sony already said the console will work offline. But it will be up the the publishers, and so
games with DRM will say "online required" and the boxed version will have a serial.

No problem

If that helps you rationalize it, then so be it. I highly doubt it will work that way.

 

[strikeselect]

Sony is like Hogan at WCW Bash at the Beach 1996 during the formation of the nWo.

WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON? WHOSE SIDE IS HE ON?

 

[I am Michael Bolton]

I'm okay with a DRM linking games to accounts as long as:

1. Internet isn't required. This could be done with discs that have some sort of small write capacity on them to link them to a user. I thought this was rumored to be on the way for Sony?​

2. Users on the system can play that game as long as the game's account is also on there (like the PS3 does currently by allowing for 2 active systems per PSN ID).​

If you want used games, you are enjoying a dying medium. And the folks that are all like "Well, I'll go play on steam!" are being either ignorant or shortsighted. Steam has no used game market. That also means it doesn't have to worry about a used game market for it's sales. When/if the PS4 and XBone are in the same position, they could very easily match Steam sales. If that's the most profitable way to make money for Steam, it's only logical that it would be for the consoles at that point with no used sales to worry about. And in the end, every company out there is about the money. Yeah, even Valve.

Except what makes Steam so great isn't Steam sales, it's Amazon and Green Mam Gaming sales. Competition. Steam sales haven't beem nearly as good as these two other online stores for quite some time. Also, Steam has an actual offline mode with no time
Limit before a call home is necessary. That isn't the case with Xbone.

It's now customary to have the option to preorder a $60 console game for $36 on PC that is Steamworks. You think that is going to happen for PS4/Xbone if they do away with used games? No. It's not. The platform holders have a closed system while the PC amd Steamworks are open platforms. That is why the sales on Steam will never happen on PS4/Xbone/WiiU.