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Geoff Keighley: PS4 Used Game DRM (EDIT: but now apparently on hold)
- Thread starter PopcornMegaphone
- Start date
Arc Christelle
Member
You know it! Sadly these are only the pre-game drinks! We'll have to wait for that official announcement to pop the REAL SHIT!!! lol
LONG LIVE HATE!
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Are we reading the same thread?
EDIT: Though there is the angle of being stuck with both doing it so may as well just pick the one that offends you least, or has something compelling (in this case exclusives I'd actually give a damn about.)
How is this a surprise to anyone. Sony was really going to sit there while publishers made greater profits from MS Xbox One. Who do you think would get the greatest software support of the two systems?
And for those declaring PC is their go to place, steam has been doing this, very successfully, for many years now.
You people are so fucking two faced its unbelievable. MS does it (for the benefit of the publisher) and the whole net goes up in a shitstorm. Sony joins the fray and reason & acceptance begins to kick in.
The system where the retailer is charged sounds like a great idea as it wont hurt us, the consumer. It could also work with game rentals for a smaller percentage (and arguably bigger profits long term).
And for those declaring PC is their go to place, steam has been doing this, very successfully, for many years now.
You people are so fucking two faced its unbelievable. MS does it (for the benefit of the publisher) and the whole net goes up in a shitstorm. Sony joins the fray and reason & acceptance begins to kick in.
The system where the retailer is charged sounds like a great idea as it wont hurt us, the consumer. It could also work with game rentals for a smaller percentage (and arguably bigger profits long term).
The scale of that is minute compared to all the other forms of physical media you can sell though. They have established a beach head and it's time to push back.
Yes, with much better pricing in their games and much better graphics.
Uno Venova
Banned
How is what a surprise
Dave Meltzer
Banned
I'm not talking about opinions, I'm talking about laws. There's an established history of this method of distribution that isn't going to be overruled by some European laws.
*blinks*
The problem in Europe is that this stuff needs the get the attention of a Committee that will study the issue, meet with the involved parties, then publish a report, meet with the involved parties again, make deals with mutually accepted timeframes so the companies can implement the accorded changes and attach a fine if they don't comply. So it can take some time, but it will happen.
shinra-bansho
Member
Setting aside whether or not Sony does systemically restrict used games. They'd get the same software support since publishers would have no security of greater profits from restricting used sales.
What revenue they generate from a cut of used game sales could be a pittance compared to the lost sales as a result of the negative reaction to the restrictions.
The most I see them doing is online pass again. They don't require always online. Most likely some publishers will have their own system.
The people PRAYING for Sony to do this are hysterical and believed this to be true at an instant. DRM is not good for either company
When laying out the pros and cons of the Xbox One and PS4, even if Sony implemented some kind of used game system, it's still way ahead of the game.
It would suck, and that's why people are raging, but compared to all of the terrible policies and requirements going on with the XBox One, it's sadly acceptable. And that's the worst part, to me, that I find myself willing to grit my teeth and deal with it simply because it's still a lot more acceptable than everything MS is trying to do.
Besides, optimally, it would just be the first time authentication that we've had to deal with in the past. Then most of most games would still be playable, and it would be a smaller charge to access online features of games when they're bought used. It would still suck being there, but it would be way easier to swallow than what MS is doing.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Maybe I'm both?
Calavera520
Member
is it really that big a deal? I like the ease of buying things digitally which necessarily involves DRM. I feel this used game issue is overblown, with XBone the major issue is with not even letting friends borrow games without having to also grant them your login details (but, i assume this will be complicated if the Kinect is also the primary method of account authentication...).
If I want to play something for cheaper I'll just wait until the price drops on a new copy, or if the future revolves around digital distribution on these new consoles, we can hope that they will adopt Steam store-like sales from time to time. I didn't see too many sales on xbox live store, but I do remember some decent deals from time to time on PSN particularly with plus.
If I want to play something for cheaper I'll just wait until the price drops on a new copy, or if the future revolves around digital distribution on these new consoles, we can hope that they will adopt Steam store-like sales from time to time. I didn't see too many sales on xbox live store, but I do remember some decent deals from time to time on PSN particularly with plus.
open_mouth_
insert_foot_
the only potential positive of both sides going DRM is if the long-term result is a more aggressive promotion and sales schedule for games since the publishers would be taking in a bigger cut of the entire pie than before. This will be a very interesting generation to say the least....
NathanMcMahon
Banned
But detective gaf said you were Meltzer?
Dave Meltzer
Banned
It won't happen though, because Microsoft will just say "you're buying a license" and they'll be "oh yeah that's been happening for years".
shinra-bansho
Member
European law and Valve are apparently currently at odds.
This is a very fair point, but realistically wouldn't influence a publishers decisions in my opinion. These guys are profit and revenue driven that they don't consider our point of view.
It can be a bit of a gamble: if people are put off enough by X1 for one reason or another it won't matter as they came to PS4 instead, ESPECIALLY if those policies are part of why.
As for Steam: PC's always been a very open platform, and by proxy it means most attempts at protection the way consoles protect against piracy don't work. Proprietary media effectively doesn't exist, there's no way to reliably hide data in a part of the disc most readers won't look at because there's too many variants on the market, people are free to program on the machines and by proxy rip apart any program, and thus people can copy and crack games with nigh-impunity. Steam's basically a compromise to avoid worse, while giving us boons like freely redownloading the games we own.
Granted, Sony and Microsoft SHOULD be allowing that much at least, but in general consoles SHOULDN'T need that kind of protection, secure at a more basic level in the first fucking place, never mind that unlike piracy used games aren't illegal, just undesirable for you.
EDIT: Also used sales were more or less dead for PC years before Steam became the force it is now, GameStop outright refused it (and made EB offload theirs when they merged) and most used PC games got for exorbitant fees online if they're there, and they're usually much older games as you can't exactly sell used copies of Skyrim or anything.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Don't let Internet fervor fool you into thinking the general public would boycott games with increased DRM restrictions.
Sony should be writing MS a cheque for the valuable market research MS just did for them on how to not sell gamers on your console tbh.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Didn't Valve just release a new EULA and put an end to that?
I think it would be really neat if you had ownership of digital licenses and could sell them to people as you please. But realistically, there's plenty of examples for years of you not being able to do that, so it's hard to see things changing.
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2012-07/cp120094en.pdf
It will happen. There just need to be a court case or this brouhaha to get the attention of a Committee and things will roll from there. EU Commission has a special place in their heart for Microsoft even. They'll love this.
Syphon Filter
Member
And this is good how?
EULA's don't override laws.
shinra-bansho
Member
That's not "our" point of view though. That would have to be an objective exercise in research an analysis - how many lost sales do we expect without an ____ SKU, how many lost sales do we expect due to used game restrictions, what's the impact on the greater gaming economy in terms of how much consumers have to spend, and what do we expect to gain in terms of the new revenue from used game royalties.
If the results looked favorable then sure EA would go exclusive on a single system that restricted used trade. But I don't think the results would be favorable.
I'd also recommend lobbying consumers' right advocates/groups like:
UK European Consumer Centre
http://www.ukecc.net/
ACCC - Australian Competition and Consumer Commission
http://www.accc.gov.au/
I don't think they have twitter but they have usual web form you can fill in on their site.
UK European Consumer Centre
http://www.ukecc.net/
ACCC - Australian Competition and Consumer Commission
http://www.accc.gov.au/
I don't think they have twitter but they have usual web form you can fill in on their site.
They did. But Geoff isn't even sure himself with how i read it. A mess. He's the only person I've heard talk about this. Until I hear more than one source I call bs
I do wonder though, if it's inconvenient enough it does seem possible many may just throw up their hands and give up on the whole thing, especially if it's need game-by-game. Just have to wait and see, but I am pessimistic about the mass public caring ENOUGH.
Tylahedras
Banned
I'm going to buy a wiiu just as a fuck you to these assholes.
BlastProcessing
Member
Then they'll be going through an even more harder time than before if they go through with this DRM feature of blocking used games, because more people will be less willing to buy newer titles thanks to it.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Is there a law in place that says you own the right to distribute digital licenses?
I'm not an expert in European law. My assumptions are based on the fact this stuff is already very common in various other media. If the European Courts decide to fuck Microsoft again, well then they do and I'm incorrect in my assumption. I'm not a judge I'm just a simple man.
Mr.Wreckless
Banned
Did I say it was good? I'm just stating the truth.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Man.... I am loving this. Everyone's uproar, getting all united and shit, especially seeing how every other thread for the other two got shit up. And now, comes the disappointment.
These tears shall sustain me for millenia to come. Yes. Bring me more.
ARGH! Why is this picture so god damn big....?
Cringe-worthy post.
At this point the best course of action for both MS and Sony is to turn their backs on this as a built in part of their console infrastructure.
If a publisher wants to implement this (maybe even going so far as to implement their own always online DRM - these things are computers after all and such a thing could be built into the game code and completely bypass either Xbox Live or PSN) then they should be the ones that have to explain it to consumers. I can't believe MS or Sony would want to take the PR hit over this when it's actually something EA wants. If EA wants it, EA should be sending people out to defend it, not MS or Sony. That MS didn't recognize this fact earlier is their own fault, but it's the damn truth.
MS and Sony both need to turn away from this now and let EA be the ones in the awkward position of having to send out PR statements explaining why they're going back on their old PR that said they'd abandon Online Passes.
If a publisher wants to implement this (maybe even going so far as to implement their own always online DRM - these things are computers after all and such a thing could be built into the game code and completely bypass either Xbox Live or PSN) then they should be the ones that have to explain it to consumers. I can't believe MS or Sony would want to take the PR hit over this when it's actually something EA wants. If EA wants it, EA should be sending people out to defend it, not MS or Sony. That MS didn't recognize this fact earlier is their own fault, but it's the damn truth.
MS and Sony both need to turn away from this now and let EA be the ones in the awkward position of having to send out PR statements explaining why they're going back on their old PR that said they'd abandon Online Passes.
10101
Gold Member
The EU have already ruled that digital resales are legal, so I'm not sure where your getting that from.
I'm taking a wait and see approach to this, but if it comes to pass I'll be upgrading my PC. Yes there is DRM (likely to be resellable for me soon lol), but for me there is a big difference between a digital and a physical product.
Tell us more!
SlipperyMoose
Member
They purposely didn't mention it and were putting it off for late, Microsoft mentions theirs, they got a lot of shit, Sony puts it on hold.
Please continue....
Personally I think Sony is going to back out of or heavily modify their original plans in regards to DRM as a last minute move to ensure they are not seen in the same light as MS.
At this point MS is trying to figure out what they hell to do and might back out as well or will heavily modify their plans.
They might end up doing something shadey and use a light DRM structure initially and then tweak it over time to fit their original vision.
At this point MS is trying to figure out what they hell to do and might back out as well or will heavily modify their plans.
They might end up doing something shadey and use a light DRM structure initially and then tweak it over time to fit their original vision.
Of course, some devs will use it. But some don't. I can guarantee you CDProjekt won't do it because they hate DRM. And I think Sony won't do it too, trying to stand a point to their fan eyes...
It's honestly times like this I would feel so much better I was in Europe. As these policies are pretty much illegal there as of last year I believe. So even if both of them implemented the DRM stuff, Sony and MS would have to come out with special versions of their consoles for the region in order to sell any consoles there (like MS was said to be coming out with a non-online required Xbone for the US soldiers).
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