Latvian Hitman
Member
Yes, poor Microsoft and the publishers. They're the real victims, here.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Geoff Keighley: PS4 Used Game DRM (EDIT: but now apparently on hold)
- Thread starter PopcornMegaphone
- Start date
Yes, poor Microsoft and the publishers. They're the real victims, here.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
So the worst thing said about the existence of PS4 drm was a definite unsure eh?
Nothing wrong with starting a campaign against it but I'm leaning towards no to the existence of PS4 DRM.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
I'm referencing the fact Microsoft have got a load of shit from them over Windows and Internet Explorer and various shit like that. Things like this. Not gaming shit.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I stand that Sony will likely take the "We'll leave it up to the publishers" model. That seems like the most Sony thing to do.
fi3rypho3nix
Banned
Man you are blind. "Gamers Choice"? LOL. They, like all other companies operate only to make money.
Schobeleth
Member
Man.... I am loving this. Everyone's uproar, getting all united and shit, especially seeing how every other thread for the other two got shit up. And now, comes the disappointment.
These tears shall sustain me for millenia to come. Yes. Bring me more.
ARGH! Why is this picture so god damn big....?
Yeah this post was... pretty bad. That character looks pretty identical to Gene from Outlaw Star tho.
I think the reason why people aren't losing their shit like they were/are with Xbone is because Microsoft CEO's confirmed the used game DRM, and then they confirmed the 24 hour thing, and now they're not clarifying anything.
Sony hasn't confirmed anything outside of them not having an internet connection required. If they do used game DRM, I bet there will be a shitstorm.
Microsoft brought it on themselves for trying to be anti-consumer with their products. It'll happen within gaming, too once the Xbox One is out.
shinra-bansho
Member
They already have Online Passes though. There's no guarantee Sony wouldn't use a system they allow third parties too.
But I can't see any publisher who makes a large portion of sales in Japan doing it. Games like Resident Evil or Final Fantasy. Because from what I understand the secondary market there is so ingrained that to try to prevent it would be commercial suicide.
Although perhaps that's why we could see the return of region locking.
I'm quite certain that there will be some form of DRM, just that it won't be a systemic implementation.
My personal concern is the ability to lend and borrow really.
So you're saying the only reason people buy used games is because Gamestop exists.
Uh, no.
The main reason people buy used is because they feel the current asking price for new games is just too high. This is also why many people trade in their used games towards new ones, a practice that Gamestop actively encourages with trade-in promos.
Another reason people buy used is because the industry markets games as disposable commodities with brief shelf lives, and retailers treat them as such. If you're interested in older titles, buying used is pretty much your only option.
Gamestop's not the root cause. The problem is that publishers don't want to address the root cause. They don't want to change how games are developed or marketed or priced. They'll do anything in their power to avoid doing that, to the point where they're actually trying to get people to accept the idea of not owning the things they purchase. That's pretty goddamn scary if you ask me.
Syphon Filter
Member
If it happens remember to vote with your wallet. Don't accept anything thrown to your face.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Changed my av in honor of the man, the myth, legend, Dave Meltzer. 5 stars!
It IS worth emphasizing we don't want it, as everyone being silent WOULD be affirmation to them that they may as well run with it.
Though internal data could always show internet adoption is not up to satisfactory levels and so they can it for later.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
I'm not going to get in to an argument about this stuff, partly due to a lack of interest and partly out of it being off topic. But a closed platform having cd keys is not really much like the monopoly shit MS gets hit with typically.
I think they will do it because "gamers" will buy the system anyways; they are like drug addicts: you give them shitty online, day-one DLC, overpriced products, and they go ahead and buy it. They might complain, but at the end of the day, gamers are so bad at putting their money where their mouths are.
In fact, if I were a Sony suit, I would go ahead and convince the whole upper management to do it. After all, Sony is a public company and they have shareholders to answer to.
In fact, if I were a Sony suit, I would go ahead and convince the whole upper management to do it. After all, Sony is a public company and they have shareholders to answer to.
While I agree that there are some devs that wouldn't opt in for any kind of DRM the unfortunate truth is most devs are not in a position to say to their publisher they don't want to use DRM.
The question of the year...
Holy shit, lmfao!!!
Everyone assuming PC gamers like me that have large libraries on Steam are ok with the fact that I can't resell my games, or even my entire account should I want to, should know I'm not ok with it. I think we need to cause a stir and get Valve to implement some sort of system to let me sell games, but the two key differences between Steam and the consoles are that:
1) I don't trust Sony, and I especially don't trust Microsoft to care about the longevity of these games, whereas I can still install and play 15 year-old Half-Life in a netter of minutes, and
2) I don't like DRM, but I really loathe the thought of it on closed platforms. There are workarounds to it on PC.
Still, like I said, I do wish I could unload some of my Steam games, or trade them with friends at the very least.
1) I don't trust Sony, and I especially don't trust Microsoft to care about the longevity of these games, whereas I can still install and play 15 year-old Half-Life in a netter of minutes, and
2) I don't like DRM, but I really loathe the thought of it on closed platforms. There are workarounds to it on PC.
Still, like I said, I do wish I could unload some of my Steam games, or trade them with friends at the very least.
Schobeleth
Member
Also I think the big issue here is the internet connection being required - it's a really dumb move, even considering most of their audience are people with broadband in America.
Lots of people don't have steady or reliable internet, if they buy a games console they want it for games. The problem is Microsoft is trying to market it as an all in one media console - which is the same mistake Sony made with the PS3.
Core gamers are the ones who support these platforms readily and talk about them the most, not the casuals. We all see that now with how the jump from Wii to Wii U didn't happen.
Lots of people don't have steady or reliable internet, if they buy a games console they want it for games. The problem is Microsoft is trying to market it as an all in one media console - which is the same mistake Sony made with the PS3.
Core gamers are the ones who support these platforms readily and talk about them the most, not the casuals. We all see that now with how the jump from Wii to Wii U didn't happen.
Syphon Filter
Member
how come you expected this to happen?
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
Somebody mentioned this in another thread, didn't they? I don't remember where but there was a post about this week being nothing compared to what it'll be like after E3 or something.
Syphon Filter
Member
what do you mean? in terms of the drm and all these issues?
It exists. Publishers want what they want and they'll get it in one way or another
Sony already said twice there is not going to be required online tho lol
10101
Gold Member
Not sure it would be as easy as that Dave, entertainment and productivity software are not one and the same thing and have different laws governing them. There is no presidence of entertainment licences being sold for physical products that I know of.
nebulous much? Haha!
quickwhips
Member
Well I dont know if sony will go through with this but aren't they already making online passes for first party games? Microsoft doesn't do this on 360.
You cant compare Steam to consoles. The amount of games that I've bought thanks to Steam sales are 10x as many as many console titles. Steam sales cannot be matched.
Schobeleth
Member
I mentioned that in a previous post. The main thing they haven't clarified is how used games will work on PS3.
I think the bigger issue is the always online thing, and knowing the PS4 won't do something idiotic like that means I'm down whether it blocks used or not. I usually buy games new now anyway, the key thing is the online DRM thing.
I mean, sure it sucks if they do something similar with used games but the key issue for me is the internet thing. That'd be like trying to sell a dedicated gaming handheld that requires internet, it's just dumb.
True that. But you have to be online to install a retail copy of a game. The whole game is on the disk but you still have to connect online to install the game.
Thus, Steam is not always online, but it does require an internet connection.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
PC gaming. For forever.
If Internet DRM is what you're worried about. Again I tell you: no online of any form is required to play your PS4
BobTheFork
Member
This is the line in the sand. Whomever blinks first will determine how things go from here.
I just spilled my drink.
Lol, EA dropped online pass because of the offline pass. EA also dropped the Wii U because it does not support offline pass (ok, as well as shitty sales of course).
Syphon Filter
Member
Yea but that is a one time thing only.
GreggTheGrimReaper
Member
Very well put! Better than any professional gaming journalist.
funkystudent
Member
If Sony doesnt have some form of DRM and MS does Sony are just tossing decent 3rd party support out the window.
Sony really are in a tough spot here. If I was them I wouldnt rush into anything.
If I was them I would be having meetings with gamestop and other large retailers and asking for used game sales profits to be shared with them and publishers.
If GS doesnt want to share then Sony can DRM and take it by force.
Sony really are in a tough spot here. If I was them I wouldnt rush into anything.
If I was them I would be having meetings with gamestop and other large retailers and asking for used game sales profits to be shared with them and publishers.
If GS doesnt want to share then Sony can DRM and take it by force.
infiniteheteroskdasticity
Member
More than a little truth to this to be honest. The outrage will be forgotten at the first sign of shiny next gen games at E3. Both companies are answerable to their shareholders and all decisions will be taken keeping that in mind.
My guess is that Sony will have a DRM/used games solution that seems less restrictive than Microsoft's on the surface but will mean the same when its all said and done. Both will have some sort of integrity check and both will allow games to be resold but with a cut of the transaction going back to the publishers. One way or another this thing has to happen. Both new consoles are x86 platforms (one of them even runs a Windows OS) so there is a vast amount of talent and software out there when it comes to hacking them. There's no way they could take the risk that comes with an open platform. Sony will probably not use an internet checkin system but might look at offline alternatives like nfc based solutions or QR codes on the disk. The status quo from this generation is not going to last.
the nightman cometh
Member
Sony has to be thinking, wow that went really poorly for Microsoft, what type of language do we use to not get everyone as pissed at us even though we still need to provide the same DRM or risk really pissing off the 3rd party publishers.
It's a PR battle now, effectively both Microsoft and Sony are going to institute the same type of draconian DRM. Sony just has the opportunity to use their PR to spin it better.
It's a PR battle now, effectively both Microsoft and Sony are going to institute the same type of draconian DRM. Sony just has the opportunity to use their PR to spin it better.
everyday math
Banned
D:
Save us!
thesuperfunk
Member
Won't happen I think.
AMAZING.
Mass Effect
Member
My god, it's brilliant.
First of all PC =/= Steam. You do not have to buy from Steam to play games on PC.
Secondly, for those claiming PC, as well as those who are aren't necessarily opposed to DD in the first place, are probably not opposed to having no used games if prices are adjusted accordingly, at least in my case. You also seem to have forgotten that Steam, while obviously the largest, isn't the only platform you can buy games from. They have competition from other platforms as well as stores like Amazon, GMG, GOG, etc. Now you will probably say retailers will be the competition for consoles, which is true... somewhat. What happens when games go out of print? The only option will probably be to buy it from the respective console store, where Sony and MS don't have to compete with anybody. Example? The original Battlefield: Bad Company. It's out of print and can only be found used. Used price? Around $5. Not bad, and there is no online pass for it either. If I were to buy it from Games on Demand (XBL)? $15. Now honestly, that's not so bad, but it's still a $10 difference. I mean BC2 is the same price on Steam, but how often does BC1 on XBL go on sale compared to BC2 on Steam? I've never seen it on sale, but I did buy BC2, and all its DLC, for $5 when I first got Steam during a sale. How about Modern Warfare 3. New retail? $40 Used? $20. GoD? $60. LOL, I think that speaks for itself.
As for their DD services, what expectation, or precedent do we have that either A.) Publishers will offer lower prices at launch for their games, or that B.) Sony and MS will offer Steam-like sales on their stores? And by that I mean, sales across the board for almost all games, not just select ones, and whether they'll do sales often enough. What about specials like midweek madness or weekend deals? Will they allow Amazon, or anyone else for that matter to offer DD codes for sale?
And on top of that, you're also ignoring other advantages that PC has, such as it being completely BC (for the most part, I haven't had any trouble running older games that are 10-15 years old), mods, better graphics/functionality, etc.
TL;DR - So it basically boils down to the restrictions of PC without any of the benefits. This can't be stressed enough.
This probably reads a bit incoherently. I wasn't typing this straight through, I was editing all over the place. Sorry about that.
Similar threads
- Locked