SenjutsuSage
Banned
I kinda expected this all along. No biggie, though. I honestly never thought that this was something only Microsoft were looking into.
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Geoff Keighley: PS4 Used Game DRM (EDIT: but now apparently on hold)
- Thread starter PopcornMegaphone
- Start date
Dave Meltzer
Banned
The reason they buy them cheaper is because they can. Not because they can't unless they buy second hand. If someone offers you two identical products for two prices you take the cheapest. The idea used games are required for a healthy market is unfounded until there's evidence. If the next gen collapses, maybe people will have that evidence, at the minute it's just an assumption.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
It wasn't that. You got the letters mixed up.
I wont tell you, but ill give you a hint. I'm British.
Have a nice day.
WrenchNinja
Member
You havent been paying attention. Of course theyll be raked through the coals. Probably even more so after how they kept being propped up as salvation.
Yes, twisted. The original OP did not accurately describe what Geoff actually said. There wasn't even a quote.
Good luck with the twitter campaign guys. Think I'll sit it out though. Trying to drill the message further into their heads won't hurt, but if what mortimer's sources say is true, I doubt they're going to flip back so quickly.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
bad teeth?
Kenshin001
Member
Waste of time. Most of those people don't even respond to tweets about company business unless it's people fellating them. Suttner and Bettenhausen would have zero influence. For all the praise Yoshida gets here he has been cagey about stuff like DRM, paid online, region free gaming, when they should be being transparent. It all seems like a controlled PR exercise that is going to blow up in their faces after the hiding MS got.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
In the end I think Sony won't have a system level mechanic and instead will leave it totally up to developers. It's what consumers want and developers want. Publishers are just going to have to be pricks themselves if they want to block used games, and not try to hide behind the consoles drm.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
If Microsoft barters down to this as well then I would at least buy Xbox One for exclusives. I'll just use PC for everything else.
Orpheus Telos
Member
I really hope Sony doesn't go through with this. famousmortimer's posts have gave me some hope, but things could still change. If they do in fact end up using some form of DRM I'll just stick with the Wii U and build a PC. It's going to be tough though, I don't see many fighters releasing for the Wii U and they pretty much never have PC ports. I don't want to have to abandon my favorite genre.
Funnily enough he'll think you've missed a word because its twitter, and because of all the tweets he's getting, and will consider it in the same group as the people saying they don't want DRM.
So, thanks.
And how do you know it's the wrong one? I find it highly coincidental that a user with the name of a former Microsoft product manager group is defending online DRM to such an extent that they'd send a troll tweet to @yosp in support of the practice.
test_account
XP-39C²
Sorry, i missed these quotes earlier:
I'm not sure about that. I get the impression that it is the system itself that people are really against, it doesnt matter if Microsoft or Sony does it.
Indeed, i think this is the case as well. It would be a big risk to ignore a whole platform.
I'm hoping that there will be more PC ports than usual because the Xbone and PS4 really are PCs with some extra built-in functionality...
Zoramon089
Banned
People who think EA not releasing games was a decision made solely based on sales numbers and that wasn't decided probably before launch make me laugh
I believe it's been noted that trade-ins of older games go mainly into buying new games. If there's not a crash there WILL be a shift in what's being bought, I doubt it's going to be a simple linear growth. People would probably focus more and more on high value purchases and disregard anything that isn't.
SilentFlyer
Member
I think the best way to counter used game is not counter but rather change the norm or thinking of gamers. They should not implement any DRM system but they need to do is:
Include some kind of level bar like Trophy Level we currently have on PS3. Call it Loyalty Level. The level will increase as gamer play more new games and will decrease when plays used game. Upon reaching a certain level, gamer should be awarded something motivating that will keep him/her buy and play new games, for instance, a new game of his or her choice or $10 back or anything that is motivating. Award will vary with every used game he/she plays.
Plus, when a player playing used game, a status should indicate it, for instance, XX is playing XXXXX (U) or Used or CD Icon in full black or anything which tells a player is playing used game. (I don't know about you guys but I certainly don't like any such indication beside my name)
Again this is just my opinion. This might encourage gamers to buy new games. Even, for instance, 2 out of 10 gamers starts buying new games, it would be good result rather loosing all 10 gamers.
Include some kind of level bar like Trophy Level we currently have on PS3. Call it Loyalty Level. The level will increase as gamer play more new games and will decrease when plays used game. Upon reaching a certain level, gamer should be awarded something motivating that will keep him/her buy and play new games, for instance, a new game of his or her choice or $10 back or anything that is motivating. Award will vary with every used game he/she plays.
Plus, when a player playing used game, a status should indicate it, for instance, XX is playing XXXXX (U) or Used or CD Icon in full black or anything which tells a player is playing used game. (I don't know about you guys but I certainly don't like any such indication beside my name)
Again this is just my opinion. This might encourage gamers to buy new games. Even, for instance, 2 out of 10 gamers starts buying new games, it would be good result rather loosing all 10 gamers.
Audioboxer
Member
It's funny because it's true.
Jmanunknown
Member
Sony probably has a system in place to block used games for publishers who probably want to use it like EA and Ubisoft.
I love gaming but, the whole used game always online stuff could really sour a person on gaming. Rocking the boat too much could have really bad consequences for the entire industry. Also publishers should really direct their anger at their real target the retailers who sell used games not the people who actually buy games they make. I know they will not do that because they need retail partners to sell their hardware so the consumer is the target.
If people are wondering how Sony would implement a used games block without requiring an internet connection, they do happen to have a patent:
It works by supplying a contactless RF tag with each copy of a game (NFC?), which can (independent of a network connection), remember if a game has been tied to a different machine or user account previously. The system checks with the tag before playing the game.
I suppose I should say that this doesn't mean PS4 will, for sure, restrict second hand games. This would not be the first time Sony registered patents in this area and then did nothing with the tech. In fact I remember a patent fueling rumours prior to PS3's launch. The decision would be a business one, not one based on technical feasibility. This system would be relatively expensive to implement vs network-DRM. Although it could have the double effect of limiting piracy - at least until pirates could hack or reproduce the 'rf tag' system.
The last official comment we had from someone at Sony was Jack Tretton's "'for the record, I'm totally opposed to blocking used games." - but maybe people would be better reassured by a comment from SCEJ...
So with those qualifications out of the way, have at it
edit - since it's causing some confusion, the application refers to a system that can tie a game to your user ID (i.e. your account), or a machine ID via the RF tag. For people wondering what would happen if your console died etc.
Zoramon089
Banned
This is the same naive thinking that made some people think devs wouldn't limit the number of plays for their demos on the 3DS and WiiU...If the option is there they'll probably use it
Darkmakaimura
Member
Personal preference, but I don't. I will always buy new, even if it means paying more. For one, GameStop sells their used games only slightly lower than newer one's. However, my main reason is I like good, clean unopened copies. I hate dusty, possibly slightly scratched discs and boxes that smell like cigarette smoke and cat pee.
- geoff heard from unknown sources that Sony is thinking about some sort of used game DRM
- sony insider confirmed that Sony has fluid plans about used games
- same insider then mentioned that AS OF NOW, used game plans are put on hold
- he recommended to us to be vocal
They dropped Online Passes for a reason.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Just because people do something to get money off games doesn't mean that when they can't do it they're going to stop spending money. That's an assumption, but there's no evidence for it yet. We'll see how the systems they have are implemented and what the effect on the industry is before we can make grand statements like "if people can't trade in games they'll buy less games".
Doritopope says he's heard rumors of Sony implementing their own system to block games
GAF-insider says the system existed until this week but Sony decided to scrap it after seeing Microsoft's rough week
GAF-insider urges to voice your opinion to key Sony execs
This IS admittedly why just having the option CAN be best, if the likes of EA start to play hardball with GameStop instead. GameStop loves their used revenue, and I imagine having to sacrifice part of it is a better deal than having that system flipped on and lose a larger chunk or help ice the slope to being locked out entirely.
It's true some may well just keep getting as many games while shifting cost cuts elsewhere, but I think it's probably a safe bet quite a few WOULD buy fewer games and just focus on what they do want most.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Well I never buy second hand either. But in general terms, most people don't care about the differences. They buy second hand cos it's cheaper.
Jake Tower
Banned
It's clear you do not understand price elasticity of demand and liquidity.
He has posted here for ages, since I was lurking. Unless he has been impersonating the wrestling writer for all that time for no apparent reason its the writer of wrestling observer.
I think his opinion on this is terrible but he isn't a Sony mole.
Nothing substantiated then?
They would hate the system itself, but be much more disappointed in Sony than MS. Sony is like the big brother who should know better.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Geoff says he's heard Sony might have anti used games DRM, lots of lamenting ensues, famousmortimer rides to the rescue and says they've changed their minds as of this past Friday but they could change their minds again.
So...nothing's set in stone either way. Could still happen, might not. Time will tell...
SunhiLegend
Member
I think many of us are fickle and will just go against whoever does it, Nintendo's probably the one I'd be most DISAPPOINTED in.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
So the question becomes is that lack of spending, if it happens, greater than the "lost" second hand sales?
That its not what Geoff said btw.
No one is saying he's a Sony mole. A MS mole though . . .
uuaschbaer
Banned
Why do people here think that if it's up to developers they can avoid DRM'ed games? Game developers or publishers with shareholders going through a bad time will be forced to use DRM because shareholders are dumb and uneducated; more and more games will go DRM and our outcries wouldn't be heard because we move incrementally to a DRM'ed games market. It's the worst of all outcomes.
Obviously, but they spun it in such a way as to make it out they were doing it for the gamer after our negative feedback toward online passes.
GayForMaster
Banned
HAHAHA FUCK SONY. LOVE LIVE XBOX
Canis lupus
Member
So an alleged insider denies a rumour.
Absolutely wrong. Otherwise I and many others wouldn't walk into GameStop and pick up a new copy of a game rather than the used that is a few steps down and a few dollars cheaper. Plenty of people choose new over used every day.
You also admit to never buying used. So you should know that people don't just buy used because they can, but usually because they have to.
flamingotripod
Member
When theres talk of PS4 used game DRM gaf is like "oh 
that kinda sucks but we just gotta accept it"
but when its about Xbone "Burn microsoft! All they care about is money! RIP Xbone"
that kinda sucks but we just gotta accept it"but when its about Xbone "Burn microsoft! All they care about is money! RIP Xbone"
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