synce
Member
+1
Even this generation is terrible. Gone are the days you can just pop a game in and play.
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Geoff Keighley: PS4 Used Game DRM (EDIT: but now apparently on hold)
- Thread starter PopcornMegaphone
- Start date
+1
Even this generation is terrible. Gone are the days you can just pop a game in and play.
Silverthorn
Member
Agree. But let's see what happens...not much longer to wait.
Arc Christelle
Member
I gotta remind you guys I've been waiting for that ship to sink for a long time. Shamelessly.
Yeah... it's actually getting quite sad. Matter in fact, I'm about to get persecuted for saying this.
Now that's the spirit.
ginger ninja
Banned
it's murky at best, just like with xbone
Have you even read this thread (and its companion thread)?
Silverthorn
Member
You've just invented your own reality...I don't see that from what I've read here. No corps are "good guys"...they exist solely to make money..We as consumers continue to have to be vocal when we don't like something and vote with our money....but most people are apathetic and continue on the conveyor belt of life and take whatever is given to them..sad.
I say let the console makers be neutral about it and allow publishers to implement it at their will.
If Joe Unsmart and his friend Alicia Unclever decide to go ahead and consecrate such a practice with their wallets, then the videogames market deserves to crash and burn.
SolidsnackooFoxhound
Banned
I don't understand why this thread keeps getting bumped. Host of GTTV pulls some shit out of his ass at the last 20 minutes of the segment to get hits to the website/ad revenue and get people worked up. Let's be more smart about this people and not get worked up.
Guileless
Temp Banned for Remedial Purposes
I paid $75 in 1993 dollars for Virtua Fighter on the 32x. It was worth it. I did not trade it in. People can always go to the library and check out Jane Austen novels for free and laugh at the suckers buying Xbone and PS4 games they can't trade in.
Super fans will believe what they want to believe, you should know that by now. These are both billion dollar companies that plain and simply want your money. To think one company is looking out for gamers more then the other is just ridiculous.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
the publishers and developers claim that the industry is in trouble (ie: studios closing in numbers) because of poor sales.
reasons for the bad sales numbers are being blamed on piracy, used games sales not giving them cuts, and the cost to develop games being too high to make up for the margins they receive on game sales.
by putting in this used game DRM, they're getting a cut of all used sales. that helps them make up more of the cost of making games, and from what they "lose" from piracy. the DRM also helps prevent said piracy.
by that math, there's no way they're going to lower the price of retail games, because it puts them right back at square one where they aren't getting the cost of development covered as much as they want. putting even more importance on getting high sales numbers. EDIT: and by getting the cost covered, i mean making less in PROFIT than what it cost to make the game. they get the development cost paid for, but if they aren't making enough money to make another game, then it's considered bad... i guess.
with this DRM, buying a game brand new at retail is going to be extremely risky to the end user because if it turns out to be shit, it will be a complicated process trading back in (which lets be honest, is a deterrent from trading it in at all) and if they do, they won't get as much back for it if everyone else is getting a share too. with the used games priced so closely to the brand new counterparts users won't have much reason to buy used anyway if they can get a brand new disc/box etc. so used games is going to dry up too. the AAA games are going to keep selling just as well as they always do, but everything below that is going to suffer because there won't be as many impulse buys.
the way i see Sony fitting in with all this, just based on what's available on their platforms, they're heavy on the "everything below AAA" side of things, and it could be catastrophic for them to see software sales put on the brakes. that's where platform holders make money after all. that and services. MS isn't going to be in as much trouble from slowing sales of games at retail because they make money from a lot of different things. to me it really seems like they are simply trying to buy publisher support.
reasons for the bad sales numbers are being blamed on piracy, used games sales not giving them cuts, and the cost to develop games being too high to make up for the margins they receive on game sales.
by putting in this used game DRM, they're getting a cut of all used sales. that helps them make up more of the cost of making games, and from what they "lose" from piracy. the DRM also helps prevent said piracy.
by that math, there's no way they're going to lower the price of retail games, because it puts them right back at square one where they aren't getting the cost of development covered as much as they want. putting even more importance on getting high sales numbers. EDIT: and by getting the cost covered, i mean making less in PROFIT than what it cost to make the game. they get the development cost paid for, but if they aren't making enough money to make another game, then it's considered bad... i guess.
with this DRM, buying a game brand new at retail is going to be extremely risky to the end user because if it turns out to be shit, it will be a complicated process trading back in (which lets be honest, is a deterrent from trading it in at all) and if they do, they won't get as much back for it if everyone else is getting a share too. with the used games priced so closely to the brand new counterparts users won't have much reason to buy used anyway if they can get a brand new disc/box etc. so used games is going to dry up too. the AAA games are going to keep selling just as well as they always do, but everything below that is going to suffer because there won't be as many impulse buys.
the way i see Sony fitting in with all this, just based on what's available on their platforms, they're heavy on the "everything below AAA" side of things, and it could be catastrophic for them to see software sales put on the brakes. that's where platform holders make money after all. that and services. MS isn't going to be in as much trouble from slowing sales of games at retail because they make money from a lot of different things. to me it really seems like they are simply trying to buy publisher support.
Arc Christelle
Member
Please. You guys are literally tweeting Sony, begging them to not go this route. While at the same time asking for more power and details from gaming. That shit is too expensive just to get your product overlooked within the first month then picked up years later used.
Not really defending it. Just saying why the publishers that go for the AAA model are pushing it. Everything comes at a price, and the graveyard from last gen was too crazy.
The response should be worse for Sony because it would mean they have been lying this whole time.
SolidsnackooFoxhound
Banned
Except it's not nearly the same.
To clarify.
On Sony's side, Yosp has said it'd be up to publishers to block used games, Tretton said he was against it. That the PS Eye is not mandatory (though it is a pack in) and that the console does not need to be online to be played.
On Microsoft's side, Harrison and others have said you need "permission" to play used games, and if you're not using the account linked to the original game purchase, pay a fee (the cost of the game) in order to play it, that along with the console needing to be connected online at least once every 24 hours or something similar for online authorisation. That and Kinect must be connected for the console to function.
Now bury your head in the sand and think the two are the same, or use some logic and sense to recognise the stark differences.
Arc Christelle
Member
Honestly this was the reason I was excited for E3. To see if that would be revealed on their most important day.
Tripolygon
Banned
What i see are people saying;
1. If microsoft is doing it then Sony must do it lest they lose 3rd party support
2. Sony is doing it because they have patents for it
3. PC only then
4. WiiU only then
5. Sony's leaving it to publishers.
6. People quoting yoshida's stance on this issue.
7. Then we have these people actually twitting yoshida to not do it
but please by all means don't let that get in the way of saying Sony gets preferential treatment.
He didn't do that at all though. It was mostly GAF honing on something he said.
Who knows, that could go any number of ways. Maybe Sony's DRM method doesn't require the internet (is that possible?), maybe it doesn't have DRM at all, maybe Michael Denny just had wrong information.. He's been very careful to not say anything about used games:
And here's another guy from Sony UK (Managing Director Fergal Gara):
ginger ninja
Banned
woah, calm down bro : | this is just about used game and not other -ve of xbone, and i still think it's a grey area otherwise yosp would come out and clarify in certain terms that used games will work the same way on ps4 as they do on ps3..at the end of the day, it's sucks for gamers no matter if it was sony who intended it this way or it's just because of publishers
if i am being honest, no body can say in definite terms how drm will pan out on xbone and ps4 until it's in consumer hands..
Sounds like a PR mix-up. Official line was probably "You don't have to be always online to use PlayStation 4," and he took it as "You don't have to be online at all."
Ok..
A) how is ther someone with this screenname
B) how do they get away with this even if it is sarcasm or not when almost anyone else would be banned in a heartbeat.
Publishers obviously asked for this. MS is taking a more aggressive approach to implementing it. Sony is giving into their demands even though they are placing the blame at the feet of the publishers with how they are implementing their system. Used games didn't matter when games only cost a million to make. Now that games cost millions of dollars, movie budgets, the publishers need all the sales they can get in order for a game to break even.
Movies can cost a lot and still profit because it there are multiple steps at which movies make money for the content creators. They get put out in theaters, then on demand tv, then physical media. Its why you see a lot of movies with 80+ million budgets. Games get released and make most of their take in the first month of release. That's it. And developers can't stop making these large budget games. If they do people will want them to sell the games like $10 a pop or the game just won't sell. Most people want the animation and set pieces and expensive art assets. You don't have that and the game probably won't sell at all.
Eclectic Jabber Monkey
Member
People need to research before they buy so they don't get a garbage game. I would never impulse buy a $60 without knowing what I'm getting, unless I really trust the devs.
Has anyone seen in any thread about used games someone who buys alot of used games own up to the fact that they are the cause of this incoming DRM? I never buy used unless I can't get the game at retail at all and always wait for a price drop if I don't want to pay full price when a game comes out. I'd rather wait and ensure that devs get a cut and not support Gamestop's milking of the industry.
Its unfortunate that this DRM is coming because I sometimes loan out games to friends or borrow games from friends, but its not surprising. People who exclusively buy used or buy mostly used should consider picking up more new games, who knows, it might actually help the industry they love so much.
computers putin'
Member
I'm hoping this doesn't happen with the ps4 too. I don't wanna give up console gaming but I'm more than willing to drop it if this stupid policy comes to fruition in both consoles.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Microsoft's stance is hardly murky. They just don't want to be clear about *how* they plan to fuck us.
DigitalRicket
Member
I doubt the mainstream Xbox and PS crowd would forego the next Gears, Halo, CoD, and whatever else comes out just because they can't sell their games or buy used.
I am not, I do not want to see bans, I just like a level play field. I am clawing my way to get back from Junior status and see things like that and it blows my mind.
ginger ninja
Banned
computers putin'
Member
Seriously, how is this guy still here lol.
I did and all I wanna know is, how is he still here?
Mass Effect
Member
Are you the same nib from IGN? just wondering.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Wasn't he already proven wrong on a few things about Xbone?
DigitalRicket
Member
I think they'll explain it in full detail come E3. Also, I'm assuming publishers are forcing their hand as this is the way they want things to go in the industry. Microsoft may just want a slice of the pie in the process.
As you said, who knows.
Microsoft didn't have clear answer yet (May) and Sony had noone back then.
There might have been ongoing discussions, but the keighley rumor alone isn't going to convince me.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
but, Sony hasn't officially announced anything right?
Sony hasn't talked about how the PS4 is the TV+FIFA+NFL box right?
Sony hasn't said you have to be connected to the internet to play a game right?
Sony hasn't said they will force motion controls on you right?
I'm not saying there are Xbox fanboys in this thread right?
Anyway, i'm ok with digital rights management. I'm not ok with having to connect online to play a game I just purchased at a brick and mortar store. The US internet infrastructure is just too shitty right now for that to work. I know a few people that only have dialup internet.
Sony hasn't talked about how the PS4 is the TV+FIFA+NFL box right?
Sony hasn't said you have to be connected to the internet to play a game right?
Sony hasn't said they will force motion controls on you right?
I'm not saying there are Xbox fanboys in this thread right?
Anyway, i'm ok with digital rights management. I'm not ok with having to connect online to play a game I just purchased at a brick and mortar store. The US internet infrastructure is just too shitty right now for that to work. I know a few people that only have dialup internet.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I honestly think Sony understands that users won't be okay with it more than MS does. Whether that means Sony will or won't do it remains to be seen. I just think Sony learned with the PS3 that their users will abandon them if they fuck them over.
i am a time traveler
RedRedSuit
Member
Above my paygrade -- how is this illegal?
They did announce they were making a next generation GAMING console.
your self congratulations are premature. I hope that's not a problem for you in the rest of your life.
yodathesoda
Member
Rumors about Microsoft next gen policies: ANTI-CONSUMER RAPING OUR MOTHERS BULLSHIT!
Rumors about Sony next gen policies: Let's wait and see.
Good stuff GAF.
Rumors about Sony next gen policies: Let's wait and see.
Good stuff GAF.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
EA dropping Online Pass speaks volumes about console makers.
IHaveCandy
Banned
But what if he really is a time traveler...
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
1 is proven
The other has kept their mouth shut and apparently the used games or DRM is
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