shungokusatsu
Member
Still happy I went with SB-E and will wait it out for IB-E. If battery life does improve enough, I'll dabble and get an m18x or whatever is announced at E3.
From all the feedback that I am getting through motherboard makers about Haswell overclocking, the basic thread at this time in terms of getting "high overclocks" seems to be, "You need to have a good CPU." ASUS has tested a couple hundred Haswell processors at this time and this is ASUS specific feedback from that overclock testing.
70% of CPUs can clock to 4.5GHz
30% of CPUs can clock to 4.6GHz
20% of CPUs can clock to 4.7GHz
10% of CPUs can to 4.8GHz
Overall you will find most CPUs capable of reaching 44x to 45x with varying levels of voltage.
These ASUS results were obtained with sealed water cooling systems that are comparable to a Corsair H80/H100 configuration or extremely efficient air cooling with 120mm push/pull fans while applying a maximum core voltage of 1.275v under full thread load conditions.
They run hotter? So now Apple's already scorching laptops are going to get even hotter? Super.
2500K vs 750 is a tock. Not only is the difference bigger than 3770K->4770K, but 2500K also OCed way better. That particular comparison is also biased towards 4770K. Vast majority of apps should perform the same as previous i7s. 4770K apparently will struggle to exceed 4.4 GHz with a good cooler, whereas 2500K typically got to 4.8 Hz.
You seem to know what you're talking about - What would you recommend going to from an i5-750? Either Ivy or Haswell is obviously an improvement, but if it makes more financial sense to not get Haswell... or maybe I'll just wait another year :|
Things are looking bleak for enthusiasts and gamers... no competition in the cpu market and also no competition in the gpu market is giving ugly results
That's all you need to know. We are talking a couple frames. That isn't worth the money unless you are doing research, or rendering stuff really.
Hardocp
Looks like it's safe to get a non-K.
Apple doesn't overclock their laptops.
(and this is why OPs exclusively mentioning pointless details that few people care about is a bad thing)
Is there any danger of this pushing the price of IB CPU's and mobos up as people buy those for the OC'ing?
Apple doesn't overclock their laptops.
(and this is why OPs exclusively mentioning pointless details that few people care about is a bad thing)
Ivy has the same problems when it comes to overclocking. So I can't see anyone rushing out to pick that. And even if they slightly overclock less, it still is a little faster, so it's probably a wash. Sandy Bridge is the one that could really overclock.
Factor in the most important benchmark, frame latency, and it remains to see how much better Haswell is. It could be significantly better (although it's all relative at this point). So there could be zero reason anyone would choose Ivy over Maxwell (except you can get similar performance for a decent amount less money).
Sooooooooo it's not worth upgrading if I have a 2500K@4.5Ghz...
I expected more tbh. :/
Not having to buy into a water cooler to achieve a decent OC seems like it will be a fairly decent savings on the low end. I've been pricing out 3570k/Z77 combos, and it looks like I can come in just under $300 for one. Add in RAM for $50, a cooler for $20 AR, and reusing the GPU/HDD/SSD/etc from my old gaming rig, I can make the upgrade for under $400. It sounds like I'd have to shell out more for a Haswell CPU/Mobo combo, the same for RAM, and then more for a cooler (to achieve the same clocks) and probably come out somewhere above $500.
I was hoping for a clear generational break that would make upgrading a no-brainer. Now I'm fighting myself wondering if I should spend the extra $100-$150 for what sounds like absolutely no performance gains.
When will we know the frame latency numbers? None of these reviews seem to mention it that I've seen. I didn't even know it was a thing until I googled it just now.
Sooooooooo it's not worth upgrading if I have a 2500K@4.5Ghz...
I expected more tbh. :/
Ivy has the same problems when it comes to overclocking. So I can't see anyone rushing out to pick that. And even if they slightly overclock less, it still is a little faster, so it's probably a wash. Sandy Bridge is the one that could really overclock.
Factor in the most important benchmark, frame latency, and it remains to see how much better Haswell is. It could be significantly better (although it's all relative at this point). So there could be zero reason anyone would choose Ivy over Maxwell (except you can get similar performance for a decent amount less money).
Tech Report was the gold standard last time I checked. And they mentioned they'd be throwing up their big review soon. So I'd expect them in the next day or so.
100 dollars is a worthwhile savings to some, a drop in the bucket to others. So I feel you there. It's nothing to sneeze at. I just brought it up to highlight why I don't feel they'll be any runs driving up Ivy Bridge prices.
Thanks for the info. Will be making a build in the near future. First one i make myself.
Unless you want to buy used I can't see the old i7 and i5s being discounted that much, stock is already on the low side when they launch a new CPU.
I know Microcenter has had some deals recently but as usual in store only.
I have the same processor but I am still in the era of DDR2 RAM and my mobo not supporting SSDs and stuff. So in my case I'm looking to build a new PC from almost scatch. If you have a more recent AM3 mobo then you should be fine for a while longer?Man I was hoping to upgrade my crusty old AMD Phenom II X4 955. Might hold off then.
Should be interesting to see TechReports latency benchmarks. The 3770k was pretty great. Let's see how the 4770k manages (or if the 4570 can jump into the 3770k's league on that).
I'm out of the loop on that. Is this just arbitrary, or does it have purpose. I think I've seen some on this, but I just assumed it was being done because it's too easy to exceed the power limitations of PCI-Express. And rather than dumb-asses returning cards that "Rebooted", Nvidia just decided to lock power states to prevent excess overclocks that didn't have the power to drive them. Is that wrong of me?
But this is where the first disappointment for non K. processors Indeed, on Sandy Bridge and Ivy Bridge, Intel still left a little freedom of overclocking, it was possible to add frequencies to 400 MHz Turbo. On Haswell, it is no longer possible to align the frequency of the Turbo with 4 active on the hearts of the Turbo with 1 active core. Here in practice what happens on two non-K processors of each line:
It loses between 200 and 400 MHz depending on the level of Turbo.
Overclocking side so it is a cold shower for Haswell, as new additions to the K processors are not really useful for overclocking used on machines of every day, and for other processors overclocking is more limited that 'before! The question is whether the Haswell rise higher frequency, we will return later.
Those 'few people' make up the majority of the PC gamers on this forum. It's pretty important stuff.Apple doesn't overclock their laptops.
(and this is why OPs exclusively mentioning pointless details that few people care about is a bad thing)
But this is just part of the problem. Haswell turned out to be much hotter in real life than its predecessor. The maximum permissible temperature of its CPU cores is 100°C but even in nominal operational modes Core i7-4770K would get as hot as 75-80°C even with a high-performance air-cooler.
To illustrate Haswells thermal performance we performed a quick comparison between Core i7-4770K and Core i7-3770K working in their nominal mode and tested with the same NZXT Havik 140 cooler:
The Haswell CPU core temperatures are seriously higher than those of the previous generation processors. And although most every-day tasks do not cause the CPU to heat up so dramatically, we should base our conclusions primarily on specialized stability tests, which create heavy but nevertheless quite realistic load.
Haswell isn't a process improvement from IVB. Wait for the shrunk version of Haswell, then OC the shit out of it.
Like how Ivy Bridge? That worked so well last time.
Can't wait to buy the revision, as a person that does not give a rats ass about over clocking just something that runs very fast out the box, I will be picking up the Intel Haswell i7-4770K.
So wait, how do the i5 3750ks compare to this?
But what if the benchmark gives a 2fps avg? That's a 50% bump in performance!!!Gaming wise? Overclock to 4.5 or there abouts and a similarly clocked haswell will only have 1fps average over the 3570k. In other words; no difference.
For those looking into non overclocking issues...seems heat is more of a problem than IVB.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-4770k_12.html#sect0
Yeah, it's common knowledge that making CPU smaller makes them hotter.
Yeah, it's common knowledge that making CPU smaller makes them hotter.
That actually sounds accurate.It seems that Intel decided that the TIM they used in Ivy was just too effective so they now are using toothpaste instead. Along with one tiny spot of solder just to tear everything apart just in case anyone tries to delid. Enjoy.
It seems that Intel decided that the TIM they used in Ivy was just too effective so they now are using toothpaste instead. Along with one tiny spot of solder just to tear everything apart just in case anyone tries to delid. Enjoy.
The TIM, no doubt. It runs like a dream once you delid it.Hey, toothpaste does a good job!
I still wonder if IB's temperatures were caused by the TIM or process immaturity, perhaps it's both.
Hey, toothpaste does a good job!
I still wonder if IB's temperatures were caused by the TIM or process immaturity, perhaps it's both.
The TIM, no doubt. It runs like a dream once you delid it.