shungokusatsu
Member
Still happy I went with SB-E and will wait it out for IB-E. If battery life does improve enough, I'll dabble and get an m18x or whatever is announced at E3.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Intel Haswell reviews embargo lifted
- Thread starter longdi
- Start date
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
Apple doesn't overclock their laptops.
(and this is why OPs exclusively mentioning pointless details that few people care about is a bad thing)
You seem to know what you're talking about - What would you recommend going to from an i5-750? Either Ivy or Haswell is obviously an improvement, but if it makes more financial sense to not get Haswell... or maybe I'll just wait another year :|
SneakyStephan
Banned
Things are looking bleak for enthusiasts and gamers... no competition in the cpu market and also no competition in the gpu market is giving ugly results
Depends. If you're going high end, yeah, get either Ivy or Haswell, OC to 4.4-4.5 GHz on a closed loop cooler. If you have a weak GPU and you aren't upgrading, then it won't matter as much. Westmere chipset is kind of crap too, so you'll benefit from nice motherboard improvements.
Things are looking bleak for enthusiasts and gamers... no competition in the cpu market and also no competition in the gpu market is giving ugly results
Yeah. I'm holding out for AMD HD 9000 (20nm January). I'm getting a couple of those, 1 for desktop, 1 for living room HTPC and then I think I'm done for at least a few years.
That's all you need to know. We are talking a couple frames. That isn't worth the money unless you are doing research, or rendering stuff really.
Hardocp
Sooooooooo it's not worth upgrading if I have a 2500K@4.5Ghz...
I expected more tbh. :/
If you're getting a desktop, get K series. Getting to 4.0 GHz is stupid easy. 3.5-3.9 variable to 4.0 solid is nice.
It still runs hotter at stock clocks under load. Of course this may not be an issue for the mobile chips if they use more aggressive power saving features.
51 vs 59 C according to this review, and that's with an aftermarket cooler
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-4770k_12.html#sect0
Ivy has the same problems when it comes to overclocking. So I can't see anyone rushing out to pick that. And even if they slightly overclock less, it still is a little faster, so it's probably a wash. Sandy Bridge is the one that could really overclock.
Factor in the most important benchmark, frame latency, and it remains to see how much better Haswell is. It could be significantly better (although it's all relative at this point). So there could be zero reason anyone would choose Ivy over Maxwell (except you can get similar performance for a decent amount less money).
cartman414
Member
Things "few people care about" != pointless.
Intel seems to have sent all the sites CPUs that easily over-clock. I really like Anand, but he's the only one that sort of passed his results off w/o that caveat. HardOCP and Tom's Hardware went and checked with the board makers to see what their results were. Just getting to to 4.5 is going to take a good mix of luck and cooling headroom
Not having to buy into a water cooler to achieve a decent OC seems like it will be a fairly decent savings on the low end. I've been pricing out 3570k/Z77 combos, and it looks like I can come in just under $300 for one. Add in RAM for $50, a cooler for $20 AR, and reusing the GPU/HDD/SSD/etc from my old gaming rig, I can make the upgrade for under $400. It sounds like I'd have to shell out more for a Haswell CPU/Mobo combo, the same for RAM, and then more for a cooler (to achieve the same clocks) and probably come out somewhere above $500.
I was hoping for a clear generational break that would make upgrading a no-brainer. Now I'm fighting myself wondering if I should spend the extra $100-$150 for what sounds like absolutely no performance gains.
When will we know the frame latency numbers? None of these reviews seem to mention it that I've seen. I didn't even know it was a thing until I googled it just now.
Wut, everyone knew that Haswell wouldn't be that much better than the Sandy bridge and Ivy bridge CPU. People that thought it would where smoking something good though
Tech Report was the gold standard last time I checked. And they mentioned they'd be throwing up their big review soon. So I'd expect them in the next day or so.
100 dollars is a worthwhile savings to some, a drop in the bucket to others. So I feel you there. It's nothing to sneeze at. I just brought it up to highlight why I don't feel they'll be any runs driving up Ivy Bridge prices.
papersleeves
Member
Not exactly sure what you expected bro. Since SB, it's all about the tick +IG performance boost. It's like there is no focus on plain good old tock anymore....
Let's face it, the next significant difference will be with Intel's new CPU series, just like it has always been.
It appears our 2500Ks will live a long life.
Ivy is noticeably better if you are willing to void your warranty and remove the IHS. Let's hope it's the same story with Haswell.
At the very least, I wouldn't think there would be any downward movement on the IB prices either. I might as well upgrade at Microcenter (or wait for Newegg to have a sale) and call it good. a 3570k/GTX 580 setup should serve me well for the foreseeable future, with maybe one video card upgrade whenever the consumer Rift comes out.
I'll check out Tech Report whenever they put out their review. I'd guess that frame latency is something I'd want to pay attention to for the Rift, since a consistent frame rate really matters there (or latency matters, I should say).
Edit2: ^^^^^^^^ TechReport mentioned in their latest podcast that a lot of stuff had been releasing and that they were really busy putting it together. AMD with Jaguar, Nvidia with the 700series and Intel with Haswell.
Please note that if the CPU is soldered to the lid (which is the case in the picture he showed) you WILL destroy the CPU. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it confirmed that Haswell is like Ivy Bridge where the lid wasn't soldered, but used thermal paste. This slowed transfer of heat and created a heatwall making Ivy Bridge really hot regardless of cooler unless you managed to get it below room temp (liquid nitrogen) or took off the lid and put a cooler on top or replaced the thermal paste.
I would not recommend it to a newbie (like me ^^) because tons of people have destroyed their chip, you need a beefy cooler to get the best results and a 4.4Ghz Ivy Bridge CPU is powerful enough for pretty much everything. I know mkenyon will hate me, but unless you need very high FPS or play Planetside 2 you don't really need to overclock in the first place and can wait until you need it or just want to have fun
Edit: Temps are looking very IvyBridge-esque so I'm 80% sure it's another heat wall -_-
Sigh, at this rate with better threaded games it looks like AMD CPUs will start to be better bang for buck. The 8350 already has higher theoretical performance (much worse in games ATM) than the more expensive 3570k (and 4560k) and overclocks to 5Ghz if you have a biiiiig cooler.
Please note that if the CPU is soldered to the lid (which is the case in the picture he showed) you WILL destroy the CPU. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen it confirmed that Haswell is like Ivy Bridge where the lid wasn't soldered, but used thermal paste. This slowed transfer of heat and created a heatwall making Ivy Bridge really hot regardless of cooler unless you managed to get it below room temp (liquid nitrogen) or took off the lid and put a cooler on top or replaced the thermal paste.
I would not recommend it to a newbie (like me ^^) because tons of people have destroyed their chip, you need a beefy cooler to get the best results and a 4.4Ghz Ivy Bridge CPU is powerful enough for pretty much everything. I know mkenyon will hate me, but unless you need very high FPS or play Planetside 2 you don't really need to overclock in the first place and can wait until you need it or just want to have fun
Edit: Temps are looking very IvyBridge-esque so I'm 80% sure it's another heat wall -_-
Sigh, at this rate with better threaded games it looks like AMD CPUs will start to be better bang for buck. The 8350 already has higher theoretical performance (much worse in games ATM) than the more expensive 3570k (and 4560k) and overclocks to 5Ghz if you have a biiiiig cooler.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Reading more and more, I'd be impressed if my options were as is but only if I was jumping from some old dual core CPU. I see no reason to hop on this train over my 3930k when we will be getting Ivy-E down the line.
SMT
this show is not Breaking Bad why is it not Breaking Bad? it should be Breaking Bad dammit Breaking Bad
That's where I struck baby, they had the i5 3570k for $134, I pounced like a Puma.
Then again, I was always lurking slickdeals and redflagdeals.
I would've bought two, but I thought of the noobs still using pentium 4s.
I have the same processor but I am still in the era of DDR2 RAM and my mobo not supporting SSDs and stuff. So in my case I'm looking to build a new PC from almost scatch. If you have a more recent AM3 mobo then you should be fine for a while longer?
Haswell is probably the best option unless someone can convince me that picking up a 3770k is a better investment and putting that money saved towards a better GPU.
scottzorus
Neo Member
I was waiting for Haswell to build a new computer, not sure now. I'll mostly game and live stream, not sure which processor to go with now.
Basically it's just that you can no longer change the voltage on Nvidia graphics cards to get a higher clock speed without either poking holes through your PCB or buying a premium model. Or at least that's how it was. The Classy and Lightning 680s allowed it but Nvidia shut it down and completely removed it from the whole line. The whole initiative is called "greenlight". It's been pretty controversial in the overclocking community.
The voltage control settings you may see when you run an overclocking utility with a (Kepler) Nvidia card don't actually change the voltage. 1.21 is the max they allow you to go and the cards actually do that by themselves depending on the boost level. What you are actually controlling is Vdroop for the GPU.
AMD still allows it though and that's why you see the 7970 beating the 680 when they are pushed to the limit. When the unlocked 680 lightnings came out some people where getting 1450ish on the core.
Reason for it is Nvidia wants to cut down on their (already low) RMA numbers. Although publically they say it's about acoustics and some other bs. Google greenlight for more infoz.
Luckily for Nvidia they still make beastly cards otherwise I wouldn't put up with their bullshit.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
I'm still rocking my 980x @ 4GHz, still seems to handle everything that I throw at it.
RukusProvider
Banned
Been running my 2600k at 4.8 24/7 for ages now without any issues.
Looks like I made a good choice back in the day.
Haswell for notebooks will be the interesting bit.
Looks like I made a good choice back in the day.
Haswell for notebooks will be the interesting bit.
longdi
Banned
Remember when you could do this with a no-K IVB and SB CPUs on a Z motherboard?
Yes the good no-K overclock via Turbo Boost to all cores. Essentially free, easy, safe tweak in the BIOS for a few watts more..
Intel decides to give another F-U to Haswell upgraders.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/897-6/overclocking-plus-libre-k-plus-strict-par-ailleurs.html
Yes the good no-K overclock via Turbo Boost to all cores. Essentially free, easy, safe tweak in the BIOS for a few watts more..
Intel decides to give another F-U to Haswell upgraders.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/897-6/overclocking-plus-libre-k-plus-strict-par-ailleurs.html
Those 'few people' make up the majority of the PC gamers on this forum. It's pretty important stuff.
longdi
Banned
For those looking into non overclocking issues...seems heat is more of a problem than IVB.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-4770k_12.html#sect0
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-4770k_12.html#sect0
Unknown Soldier
Member
Haswell isn't a process improvement from IVB. Wait for the shrunk version of Haswell, then OC the shit out of it.
GoofsterStud
Member
Like how Ivy Bridge? That worked so well last time.
Yeah, it's common knowledge that making CPU smaller makes them hotter.
GHG
Gold Member
If you dont care about OC'ing then get the non-k version and save yourself some cash.
Gaming wise? Overclock to 4.5 or there abouts and a similarly clocked haswell will only have 1fps average over the 3570k. In other words; no difference.
I kind of feel like i should have got a 2700k when i upgraded just for the HT support which should help when next gen games hit. Guess i could always keep an eye ouy for a cheap 3770k...
theSlacker
Member
For those looking into non overclocking issues...seems heat is more of a problem than IVB.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core-i7-4770k_12.html#sect0
It seems that Intel decided that the TIM they used in Ivy was just too effective so they now are using toothpaste instead. Along with one tiny spot of solder just to tear everything apart just in case anyone tries to delid. Enjoy.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Haswell thrashes my Bloomfield (Nehalem) machine by >40% clock for clock. I will have to seriously think about an upgrade at this point.
That's quite interesting considering the problem with SB -> IVB was actually the switch to using thermal paste on top of the die to dissipate heat to the heatspreader.
That's quite interesting considering the problem with SB -> IVB was actually the switch to using thermal paste on top of the die to dissipate heat to the heatspreader.
die shrinks make them cooler.
Hey, toothpaste does a good job!
I still wonder if IB's temperatures were caused by the TIM or process immaturity, perhaps it's both.
The TIM, no doubt. It runs like a dream once you delid it.Hey, toothpaste does a good job!
I still wonder if IB's temperatures were caused by the TIM or process immaturity, perhaps it's both.
theSlacker
Member
Hey, toothpaste does a good job!
I still wonder if IB's temperatures were caused by the TIM or process immaturity, perhaps it's both.
I love those tests. Think peanut butter is one of my favorites.
I remember reading stuff a while back about it being a little of both, but delidding gave you enough room that you no longer noticed how inconsistent overclocking still was. Course I'm not going to go look for a link, or read more into it now, just saying.