BrokenEchelon
Banned
Dat RAM at work.
Yup. Summed it up perfectly.Thanks, yea, exactly it.
I don't mean to harp on about this and bring it up again, but the reason PGR4 didn't have full night/day cycles on all tracks was due to storage (the way they did it, they needed completely different textures for day/night on every track because of how the lighting worked) and that's it. Now that T10 have all the storage they could ask for (One was using BR, yes? So ~25GB?) even if they went with that old method the same as the 360, they could piss it in. And don't discount that Horizon managed to do it in Turn 10's own engine (albeit at 30fps) quite successfully, too. I don't know whether it's the push for launch or what, but it's not a good look.The console is many times more powerful than the PS3 and it could do it.
There is absolutely no excuse for these things to be missing. None. The console is MORE than powerful enough to do it. As I said earlier, T10 is not interested in pushing the series forward.
I won't. I have my reasonsNever change
Thing is, it's not the actual lack of night that is disappointing... it's what the absence of it represents: An inability to deliver a complete game.Overall lack of night is the only real disappointing news for me.
I agree with the people who say this news softens the blow about avoiding the Xbone. Forza 5 has been my most anticipated game of E3 and it was the only game that could have persuaded me to ignore everything I dislike about the Xbone, but it's pretty much made my mind up for me. I don't even think Fanatec support (which I don't believe will happen, but you never know) could change my mind now.
FM5 will still be a fantastic game, of that I have zero doubt. But night and weather are huge omissions for the fifth version of the franchise. I guess the pressure of hitting launch on new hardware just stretched resources far too thinly, but I'll be seriously pissed if there are fully-fleshed out mini-games like soccer and bowling again instead. Priorities would HAVE to be questioned if that was the case.
Thing is, it's not the actual lack of night that is disappointing... it's what the absence of it represents: An inability to deliver a complete game.
Disagree! , Turn10 is a great developer that has always delivered complete games. We will always have thing we want and things missing and and somehow everytime one of those things get done we put all the weight in the things that are still missing.
Both Forza and GT are mesured with CRAZY standards, people doesnt only ask them having weather, they want hundreds of cars, 60 fps, 1080p, great AI, lots of tracks, amazing graphics, great 3d models, amazing sound, top physics, realistic damage, cockpit view of every car, etc. And if one or 2 of those things are not present we make a storm and call them lazy.
We are getting open wheelers finally, something that has been asked many times, and real windshields and 1080p, better lightning, better AI and theres probably going to be many other nice things.
Other games have weather, other games have night but what other games are able to make such complete packages? What if Turn10 release the game at 30 fps with weather and night? what if they release it at 720p, what if they release it with 8 cars on track?
We forgive these things in other games all the time yet Forza and GT have to be perfect.
So, is a bit disappointing? yes but calling the game incomplete is just too much.
Except that taking out the storefront (that was in the last 2 games) and the auction house (that was in the last 3 games) is dump. Who cares really for autovista on all the cars? It was super gimmicky to begin with.
Not having night or weather is dissapointing but doesn't really bother me... Taking out established features however is just stupid.
Except that taking out the storefront (that was in the last 2 games) and the auction house (that was in the last 3 games) is dump. Who cares really for autovista on all the cars? It was super gimmicky to begin with.
Not having night or weather is dissapointing but doesn't really bother me... Taking out established features however is just stupid.
Its weird when a PS3 game looks better than the next gen offerings form both MS and Sony.
What did they think was going to happen?
Did next gen sneak up on these guys?
I have a fairly specific definition for what I consider "complete". Not that it's unfinished or there are rough edges, but obvious omissions that give you the "This would've been great, but..." vibe. FM4 was fairly solid, but omissions like difficulty level and the number of laps in career mode races feels like they just didn't think things through enough.Disagree! , Turn10 is a great developer that has always delivered complete games. We will always have thing we want and things missing and and somehow everytime one of those things get done we put all the weight in the things that are still missing.
But they've built on each of those with each iteration (for the most part). But from what we've seen, other than open-wheelers there's nothing significant we can point at and say "This is what's new, different and better with FM5". I don't think it's wrong to want to see the game evolve, and there's been that in adequate measure for each of the Forza titles. But when a night mode has been engineered to work in Turn 10's own engine with Horizon, you have to wonder why it hasn't been implemented. I don't think it's wrong to have expected it.Both Forza and GT are mesured with CRAZY standards, people doesnt only ask them having weather, they want hundreds of cars, 60 fps, 1080p, great AI, lots of tracks, amazing graphics, great 3d models, amazing sound, top physics, realistic damage, cockpit view of every car, etc. And if one or 2 of those things are not present we make a storm and call them lazy.
This is true, and perhaps it's just a sign of entitlement, but that's kind of what's expected with a new game in any kind of franchise (except for the windshields thing obviously, can't have that in an FPS!). I'd be bummed if I bought any kind of game that necessitated AI where it wasn't improved or tweaked with each iteration. Especially an iteration that's running on vastly more powerful hardware.We are getting open wheelers finally, something that has been asked many times, and real windshields and 1080p, better lightning, better AI and theres probably going to be many other nice things.
We forgive them in other games because they're generally kept on the same platform where we know the system specifications are being pushed to the limit and compromises have to be made (we can see that in FM4, where different level LODs are used depending on whether it's a TT or full race, the 30fps/60fps mirrors etc.). The problem with a new console is we don't have a reasonable idea of what it's capable of, so we don't know what factors come into play when a feature like night racing is omitted. Is it time? Is it budget? Is it hardware restrictions? My problem is that like I said earlier, Horizon showed us it was possible with a cut in framerate (and they were able to add additional effects like god rays and AA with that sacrifice), so I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected it on vastly superior hardware (even if it isn't as powerful as the PS4 or whatever).Other games have weather, other games have night but what other games are able to make such complete packages? What if Turn10 release the game at 30 fps with weather and night? what if they release it at 720p, what if they release it with 8 cars on track?
We forgive these things in other games all the time yet Forza and GT have to be perfect.
I think the comparison comes from the hangover of them being included with FM4, and the impact they may have had on development of other parts of the game. Sure, they might've been planned from the start, but if, say, 300 man hours are dedicating to implementing it, who's to say that with those hours they couldn't have found a way to eliminate the glare from the roads? Or created an extra track?Edit: Could we stop comparing weather with soccer or bowling, those things have nothing to do with each other, none of those activities affect the physics or the visuals, its flawed logic at its best, its like when people were saying "I dont want 800 standards cars in GT5, i´ll trade them for 100 premium", it simply doesnt make sense, soccer and bowling are easy to do and already done, same as porting 800 cars from GT4 was nothing like making 100 premium cars.
To the people complaining, 1080p @ 60fps with no day/night/weather cycle or 720p @ 30fps with day/night/weather cycle?
Do you think the next-gen Gran Turismo is going to have to make that choice? I don't.To the people complaining, 1080p @ 60fps with no day/night/weather cycle or 720p @ 30fps with day/night/weather cycle?
You're making the assumption that night was dropped because of a lack of system resources. Weather I can somewhat conceive as possible that it's not optimised enough for all the effects it would have in the physics area, but night racing... I just can't see how it would have such an overhead that hardware performance is the issue.To the people complaining, 1080p @ 60fps with no day/night/weather cycle or 720p @ 30fps with day/night/weather cycle?
To the people complaining, 1080p @ 60fps with no day/night/weather cycle or 720p @ 30fps with day/night/weather cycle?
I do. It means great detail in each and every car. If T10 manages to deliver this it will be the best car game for me. I've spent most time in FM4 and GT5 just looking at cars in the homespaces with cool music playing in the background. That's all I want from FM5 - pure car porn. And with Next-Gen GT being another 5 years away, there is no competition for Forza in this field.
To be honest, five minutes earlier he was not sure about how many difficulty levels FM4 has. He said he "thinks" there were 5.
They are still deciding or trying to do something. GTPlanet has a quote from German Xbox forum how Fanatec compatibility situation will be announced/revealed just after the E3. Search for quote in Hardware/Fanatec section, I am on the phone so I can't c/p.
why put both PS4 and Xone in the same sentence?
Drive CLub looks miless ahead of GT6 and Forza 5
Blame xone's HW for the poor graphics.
How can they call themselves a sim dev and not even know if wheels will work with the game?
They've already confirmed a new thrustmaster wheel for it...
Well is great you're getting what you want.. I want a racing game. Pure car porn does nothing for me, but I guess thats where the producers priorities and what I want from this game begin to divert.
Well for racing there are so many other games, GT6 is coming out this year, get that. Honestly, the racing genre is way overpopulated with empty racers, even at this E3, I honestly can't tell a single difference between the new NFS, The Crew or the Driveclub, they all look bland and uninspired, FM is like a beacon of hope for me. And may it never change.
Indy Cars are coming to Forza!
I'll multiquote, but not because I'm trying to tear apart your post, just give every point the time it deserves
I have a fairly specific definition for what I consider "complete". Not that it's unfinished or there are rough edges, but obvious omissions that give you the "This would've been great, but..." vibe. FM4 was fairly solid, but omissions like difficulty level and the number of laps in career mode races feels like they just didn't think things through enough.
Conversely, PGR titles have never felt to me like that. They may not have as many features as FM but what it does, it does damn well and never gives you a feeling that something's been cut, held back or compromised.
But they've built on each of those with each iteration (for the most part). But from what we've seen, other than open-wheelers there's nothing significant we can point at and say "This is what's new, different and better with FM5". I don't think it's wrong to want to see the game evolve, and there's been that in adequate measure for each of the Forza titles. But when a night mode has been engineered to work in Turn 10's own engine with Horizon, you have to wonder why it hasn't been implemented. I don't think it's wrong to have expected it.
This is true, and perhaps it's just a sign of entitlement, but that's kind of what's expected with a new game in any kind of franchise (except for the windshields thing obviously, can't have that in an FPS!). I'd be bummed if I bought any kind of game that necessitated AI where it wasn't improved or tweaked with each iteration. Especially an iteration that's running on vastly more powerful hardware.
We forgive them in other games because they're generally kept on the same platform where we know the system specifications are being pushed to the limit and compromises have to be made (we can see that in FM4, where different level LODs are used depending on whether it's a TT or full race, the 30fps/60fps mirrors etc.). The problem with a new console is we don't have a reasonable idea of what it's capable of, so we don't know what factors come into play when a feature like night racing is omitted. Is it time? Is it budget? Is it hardware restrictions? My problem is that like I said earlier, Horizon showed us it was possible with a cut in framerate (and they were able to add additional effects like god rays and AA with that sacrifice), so I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected it on vastly superior hardware (even if it isn't as powerful as the PS4 or whatever).
I think the comparison comes from the hangover of them being included with FM4, and the impact they may have had on development of other parts of the game. Sure, they might've been planned from the start, but if, say, 300 man hours are dedicating to implementing it, who's to say that with those hours they couldn't have found a way to eliminate the glare from the roads? Or created an extra track?
I think there's also a certain amount of bitterness coming from the fact that car bowling or whatever conflicts with the "drive real cars around tracks real fast" ethos that the game is going for. When people see that diluted (to an extent), there could be that (perhaps rational, perhaps not) leap to think "If they included that, why couldn't they include X? Shouldn't they have included X instead?".
I'm sorry if it's sounding like I'm trying to pick your post apart or anything. Just trying to offer an alternate perspective, hopefully explaining that it's not just bitterness for the sake of it, that it actually comes from a real place that has personal justification to it
Wait, what the fuck? No Storefront and auction house is unacceptable. Those features were fucking great. So much for my hopes for more community features.
none of those games have sim physics, so they are not in the same category.
Don't people always say Forza has arcady(easy) physics? Again, for hardcore you can play PC-sims or GT.
Yeah, that's what I'm taking away from it as well... that they're basically held at gunpoint to a fixed date and having to compromise on certain features in order to make it. Doesn't help that the console they're developing it for is coming under so much derision for things out of Turn 10's control.Yeah, I'm not putting this on Turn 10 so much as them being rushed to get this out for release day. Damn shame, this is a team that deserves to takes its time making new entries rather than almost yearly stuff.