The AI doesn't change when you choose a higher difficulty, they suddenly doesn't get smarter.
that being said, yeah i agree.
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TLOU (Before & After E3 demo) MAJOR differences!
- Thread starter Cave Johnson
- Start date
The AI doesn't change when you choose a higher difficulty, they suddenly doesn't get smarter.
that being said, yeah i agree.
Metalmurphy
Member
Are you sure about that? Because that video is alot different from what I'm seing right now in Hard and Survivor.
They do! If they spot it out of the corner of their eye, they come over to check the body to see if he's still alive. When they realize he's not, they yell out for for back up (if there is any) and they change their patrol routes.
Metalmurphy
Member
Yeah but they react the same if it's 1 body or 5 lol. That's what he meant I think.
Well i have to say i haven't played it on Survivor yet but if we can believe this video...
Yeah... or he's just a massive troll. I will start my survivor run soon then i'll definitely try this out.
This is one thing I agree with. It's kind of sad that the old Metal Gear "make a pile of bodies and hide around the corner" trick works just as well here if you set it up properly. It feels silly every time it happens (which fortunately isn't too often).
And while I wouldn't call enemies failing to react to people being strangled behind them a failure of the AI (because if Naughty Dog wanted them to react, it wouldn't be some incredible feat of programming to do it), I do feel like there are too few incentives to use shivs during backstabs.
SoulUnison
Banned
I've never wrestled a gun away from anyone like in the E3 demo or managed to melee someone around a corner transitioning out of cover like that - I just stand up and start punching them.
Maybe it's in the game but there's just no button prompt or indicator of what to do when to trigger it.
Maybe it's in the game but there's just no button prompt or indicator of what to do when to trigger it.
dancegrenade
Member
They definitely removed that.
amstradcpc
Member
Me yes. Those animations are procedural and depend a lot in the situation.
I'm not really surprised about this tbh. they changed a lot of things through development.
For example:
I haven't seen this exact scene in the game.
or in this area, where the hell were they infected?
Seriously wtf ND.
For example:
I haven't seen this exact scene in the game.
or in this area, where the hell were they infected?
Seriously wtf ND.
ShinobiFist
Banned
Few people on GAF(like myself)notice how awful the blacks are in this game. Is like a Ubisoft game with that terrible SSAO effect they use in some of their games(Here's looking at you FC3)It looks very muddy. This is the only game that I put on my LCD and plasma that makes the panel look horrendous.
Sakura
Member
I think in the E3 demo, it feels more like every one is struggling to survive in this ruined world they live in, every body is desperate, every one is just trying to get by, including Joel and Ellie. The tone seems different. But in the actual game, outside of cutscenes, I kind of just feel like I'm Solid Snake, or some kind of one man army or something.
Yep, they yell out "shit, he's got a gun!" all the time, and when I am out of ammo, they charge me when they here the click sound. I have also seen occasions where they do search drawers and the do run away if they have no backup. They also will flank you all the if they have multiple allies. They are really good at cutting off alternate routes most of the time because of this
Yeah I still absolutely loved the game, but it's obvious the enemy encounters weren't as exciting as what was shown at E3, even on Hard and Survivor. There are SOME instances where they do those things, but they are few and far between.
I understand why they toned it down if it wasn't fun, but I think they should have changed a different part of the equation to achieve that, and not dumb down the A.I.
I also understand that the E3 demo was played by a guy who knows exactly what, where and how to show off the game, but still.
What's weird is, parts of the AI system is above and beyond any other games, at other times however, they seem thick as shit.
I understand why they toned it down if it wasn't fun, but I think they should have changed a different part of the equation to achieve that, and not dumb down the A.I.
I also understand that the E3 demo was played by a guy who knows exactly what, where and how to show off the game, but still.
What's weird is, parts of the AI system is above and beyond any other games, at other times however, they seem thick as shit.
paperheart
Banned
I do miss the brutality of the E3 demo. I thought it was toned down while I was playing the game, and I see I remember right. Still love the final game, though. 
The first screenshot is in the gameI'm not really surprised about this tbh. they changed a lot of things through development.
For example:
I haven't seen this exact scene in the game.
or in this area, where the hell were they infected?
Seriously wtf ND.
is the ballroom where you push the piano
Metalmurphy
Member
Well i have to say i haven't played it on Survivor yet but if we can believe this video...
Yeah... or he's just a massive troll. I will start my survivor run soon then i'll definitely try this out.
FoV/hearing hardly equates to smarter AI. That's just a design choice.
amstradcpc
Member
I do miss the brutality of the E3 demo. I thought it was toned down while I was playing the game, and I see I remember right. Still love the final game, though.
My copy of the game must be different, because, seriously i witnessed that brutality in the game in spades.
Yeah that room was in the game but not exactly like this. Can you even press yourself to a wall like this?
Dude, how the hell does the AI not see the player here?
I read the digital instructions that game with the game (why you can't actually access while in the game who knows) and in there it says someone about using triangle to counter or something. I don't think I've ever use it while playing so I'm not sure what it does. Next playthough I'm certainly going to try to counter someone punching me. I can't remember if it ever happen, but have you ever seen any of the guys with guns melee you with the gun? Perhaps there's a way to counter that? At any rate, I've never seen that in the game either.
sometimes i game
Member
Final product is definitely dumber/not as immersive as E3 example, but sometimes they do similar things to the E3 demo.
This video is more of a testament that the AI is random as hell.
This video is more of a testament that the AI is random as hell.
Metalmurphy
Member
Again, it has nothing to do with AI being smarter or not depending on the difficulty level. It's a game play design choice. Bad one or not. Also it seems to me like he's crouched near cover and enemies don't see the players as well like that.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
The AI might have been toned down, but it still runs circles around like 95% of other games.
Well i have to say i haven't played it on Survivor yet but if we can believe this video...
Yeah... or he's just a massive troll. I will start my survivor run soon then i'll definitely try this out.
I'm thinking that their FOV is relative to their body and not their actual head, so even when his head is look right over at Joel, his body is still positioned in a way that he would be out of the FOV. Might sound kind of stupid but I think their heads looking around the room is more for looks and the actual FOV game system isn't related to that at all.
Watching this vid after having just completed the game 10 minutes ago. All AFAIK obviously.
First "they don't search for things", true, or I didn't see it.
Second "toned down", hell fucking no. Shit is brutal as hell and you can do that exact brick beatdown.
Third "don't express fear", hell fucking no. They express fear all the time. I don't know why none of the AI is talking in his video but they are constantly jabbering, pissing themselves and running away in my game.
Fourth "no longer runs and hides when unarmed". I don't know, they certainly run sometimes but I don't really recall any enemies being totally unarmed. When I'm shooting at them they bolt and take cover if they're in the open.
I don't know whats going on in his game tbh, but only the first point about not-scavenging really happened in my game, and even then they might do it sometimes as they walk along before they even know you're in the general area, I played a very aggressive style.
Video does show there are some inconsistent AI, but the conclusions are bullshit.
First "they don't search for things", true, or I didn't see it.
Second "toned down", hell fucking no. Shit is brutal as hell and you can do that exact brick beatdown.
Third "don't express fear", hell fucking no. They express fear all the time. I don't know why none of the AI is talking in his video but they are constantly jabbering, pissing themselves and running away in my game.
Fourth "no longer runs and hides when unarmed". I don't know, they certainly run sometimes but I don't really recall any enemies being totally unarmed. When I'm shooting at them they bolt and take cover if they're in the open.
I don't know whats going on in his game tbh, but only the first point about not-scavenging really happened in my game, and even then they might do it sometimes as they walk along before they even know you're in the general area, I played a very aggressive style.
Video does show there are some inconsistent AI, but the conclusions are bullshit.
Triangle counters come up dynamically in melee encounters, usually when the enemy tries to knock you off-balance before delivering a followup blow. There's a prompt onscreen for it.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Thread was worth reading just for this typo
Metalmurphy
Member
That's incorrect. It's the head, but there's other factors, for example there's a grace period, you can notice this grace period if you pay attention to the sound. There's a buzzing sound when someone is about to notice you. These are gameplay design choices obviously. If the buzz noise starts then "technically" you are already in the cone of vision of the NPC. He's just not alerted by you right away. And the grace period varies on alot of things, some times they do notice you instantly.
AngelsDontBurn
Banned
robertsan21
Member
Paging Arne. Maybe a ND rep could explain
Loved the game however and the AI was still good according to me, but yeah, Would have loved it more if it was like in the first showing.
Loved the game however and the AI was still good according to me, but yeah, Would have loved it more if it was like in the first showing.
28 Posts Later
Member
Of course the AI aren't going to react exactly as they did in the E3 demo - it was likely an extremely scripted 'ideal' version of the game that attempted to showcase the best possible scenario for the viewer - just like every single player E3 demo ever..
I have issues with the game, but the AI isn't one of them - it's highly impressive for the most part.
I have issues with the game, but the AI isn't one of them - it's highly impressive for the most part.
That brick kill animation is still in the game, I saw it more than once after being surprised to "discover" you could actually attack at close range with bottles and bricks.
Also, you can attack from behind cover like in this video, people punching in the air instead are doing it wrong.
Also, you can attack from behind cover like in this video, people punching in the air instead are doing it wrong.
filthy lies!
base shagohod
Member
This thread bums me out.
Sounds like a candidate to put under his name.
Metalmurphy
Member
I think it's more of a case of the developers knowing exactly how the AI is going to react depending on the circumstances so they do they're playthrough accordingly to what they want to show you.
Oh ok. Yes, I knew the sound was a warning that you're in their FOV but didn't know it was attached to their head. Good to hear that's the case.
BruiserBear
Banned
That was the point. Just play the game. It's going to win a lot of GOTY awards for a reason.
Metalmurphy
Member
I'm uploading a video now where you notice the buzzing sound coming and going because the guys head was just going left and right. That's a pretty big giveaway that it's related to the head and not the body imo.
Should be up in a few minutes. It also shows how good, imo, the AI is in survivor.
I'm not really surprised about this tbh. they changed a lot of things through development.
For example:
I haven't seen this exact scene in the game.
or in this area, where the hell were they infected?
Seriously wtf ND.
Isn't the second screenshot the place
where Joel gets caught in a trap and you have to shoot the infected until Bill arrives
Future PhaZe
Member
I knew when I saw that E3 demo that I thought in my head " No way it ends up like that in retail" and I was right.
Still a fabulous game though.
Still a fabulous game though.
shakin_haitian
Banned
People trust E3 demos?
28 Posts Later
Member
Maybe, but given the stakes of E3 and all the other overtly scripted playthroughs it's much more likely a scripted representation of the final AI as opposed to the dynamic AI just happening to react perfectly to the situation.
But if you read the thread the majority of the things that is being complained about in the video is actually in the game, if you trust the gaffers.
Are you still right?
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I've seen the AI do everything from the E3 demo excluding searching drawers. That said I have also seen the AI do a ton of awesome things not featured in the E3 demo as well.
I would call that a win.
Lol at some trolls in this thread who have quite obviously not played the game,
I would call that a win.
Lol at some trolls in this thread who have quite obviously not played the game,
SneakyStephan
Banned
NPCS rummaging through drawers or running away = broken
Cmon the AI seems just dumb as shit.
It's a good thing they toned down the gratuitous violence though, it was pointless and gross.
How many games see this kind of change? Final balancing always brings changes.
So far I've had guys run away, guys beg, etc. although not with quite the same vigour as E3. I've had AI try and flank, etc. All in all given the size of the areas it works pretty well I think.
My main gripe - a common one with AI - is I'd like the AI to be a little more concerned for its own life. When it feels a little odd is when it does rush you a bit in situations where you're clearing going to blow them away.
Mind you I guess most games don't fancy a - much more realistic - situation where a small fire fight could take hours with neither side taking too many risks.
Anyway I was happy with final AI - gave enough challenge most of the time when coupled with lower resources at harder difficulty levels.
Like most games today the balance wants you to be able to win and that's that though.
So far I've had guys run away, guys beg, etc. although not with quite the same vigour as E3. I've had AI try and flank, etc. All in all given the size of the areas it works pretty well I think.
My main gripe - a common one with AI - is I'd like the AI to be a little more concerned for its own life. When it feels a little odd is when it does rush you a bit in situations where you're clearing going to blow them away.
Mind you I guess most games don't fancy a - much more realistic - situation where a small fire fight could take hours with neither side taking too many risks.
Anyway I was happy with final AI - gave enough challenge most of the time when coupled with lower resources at harder difficulty levels.
Like most games today the balance wants you to be able to win and that's that though.
NPCS rummaging through drawers or running away = broken
Cmon the AI seems just dumb as shit.
It's a good thing they toned down the gratuitous violence though, it was pointless and gross.
The AI is not dumb as shit in the slightest. Sorry. I died 66 times on hard difficulty without listen mode. People playing with listen mode on cannot talk about the AI. Shit's broken.