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[I-hate-u]

And there we have it.

I dunno about Matt but I believe GopherD was wrong before.

 

[amstradcpc]

A quad core Jaguar at 2GHz in a small APU is a completely different prospect to an octo core Jaguar in the largest and most complex APU AMD have ever designed.

Also, you are talking about Kabini, not Temash, Kabini goes into notebooks and has just 128 graphics ALUs compared to 1152 for PS4.

Also, you should notice that the TDP increased by 66% to increase the CPU clock by 33%, again, in a fixed box like PS4 (or Xbone) the (negligible) performance increase isn't worth the hassle of extra cooling.

Yeah, Kabini, you are right. In relative terms 66% is a lot but in absolute terms for 8 jaguar cores it would be 10-15 watts. That´s not a lot for a total of 40 watts cpu.

 

[sublimit]

I've been trying to find a Neogaf thread with no luck.. If a kind soul knows where it please post..

I think i know which thread you mean and if i remember correctly there was no proof there either.Only speculation.

 

[Krilekk]

Now, if you can truly turn off Kinect... why can't you unplug it? Makes zero sense. If it's off, then why the hell would it be required to be plugged in?

You can turn it off but it still has to listen to one phrase: "Xbox On". Only in Germany is it truly off-off.

 

[ekim]

You can turn it off but it still has to listen to one phrase: "Xbox On". Only in Germany is it truly off-off.

You can also completely power off the console itself.

 

[Chrisness]

I hope the rumor is true. The Xbox One has a much bigger cooling fan than the PS4 and should put it to good use.

 

[lynux3]

I hope the rumor is true. The Xbox One has a much bigger cooling fan than the PS4 and should put it to good use.

You've seen inside the PlayStation 4 chassis?

Edit: As nice as it would if this rumor was true. In my humble opinion, I highly doubt any of this fud is true.

 

[Alx]

The is talk of upping the memory to 12 gigs of ddr3 leaving 7 gigs for gaming and 5 for OS.The memory upgrade is being discussed because the 3 OS are clunky and taking up a lot of memory to run as smooth as they want it too!

How "clunky" can their OS be to require 5 gigs of RAM ? You could put four full Windows 8 OS in that amount.

You've seen inside the PlayStation 4 chassis?

I think the X1 cooling fan is bigger than the PS4 itself.

 

[cormack12]

Any modifications done this late now into the production cycle will more than likely be software. It will be easier for MS (predominantly a software house) to scale back the OS requirements (a la Windows Thin PC) rather than start redesigning hardware specs. They can also work on it now with engineers/developers and they just have to bundle it in a day 0 patch.

I refuse to believe that 3GB is required for OS's just to enable some gimmicky features. And how do they even separate it? Trust devs to work within a 5GB limit?

 

[fatgamecat]

So you believe the Kinect is there continuously recording you? It is off, and you can turn off voice commands also. The only thing you can't do is unplug it if you want to use your console, which isn't a big deal unless your Kinect breaks..

It is a big deal to me, as there's a $100 premium for it, and you're forced to have it plugged in.

Even if this upclock rumor is true, I don't think it's going to do much to sway hardcore gamer's opinions at this point.

 

[Pug]

Examiner is about as reliable as Forbes Contributors. Basically anyone with a keyboard can write for them.

None of this is going to happen. The bone will come out in November for $499 with 8GB RAM and an 800MHz or lower GPU.

So it can't be a higher rated GPU but it can be lower! Like it.

 

[Pug]

You've seen inside the PlayStation 4 chassis?

Edit: As nice as it would if this rumor was true. In my humble opinion, I highly doubt any of this fud is true.

It's not true.

 

[IHaveCandy]

So it can't be a higher rated GPU but it can be lower! Like it.

That's pretty much how late-stage design works, yup.

 

[Log4Girlz]

 

[systemfehler]

I guess MS has still room in their TDP envelope so if they want to sacrifice that for higher clocks I say go for it unless they already operate at the limit. Looking at their early 360 RRoD issues I doubt this is the case. They have probably more than enough means to dissipate that heat without any shortened lifespan or damage at all to the components.

In the end it all depends if they can up the clockspeed with the same voltage - heat scales linear with that. If they have to enhance the voltage aswell heat will rise ² (exponentiell increase) and that might be too much.

Assuming a 7850 with 1.138V and 975MHz Core has a TDP of 130W (all values are more or less accurate) you get the following new TDP with a 100MHz/200MHz and what would happen if for 200MHz we need to increase the voltage to 1.25V:

130W * (1.138²V/1.138²V) * (1075MHz/975MHz) = 130W * 1 * 1.102 = 143W
130W * (1.138²V/1.138²V) * (1175MHz/975MHz) = 130W * 1 * 1.205 = 157W

130W * (1.250²V/1.138²V) * (1175MHz/975MHz) = 130W * 1.206 * 1.205 = 189W

Of course this is just a example and not a 100% scientific math. But it gives a overview how the scaling works and how even 100MHz could end up being too much - especially modern GPUs are already often at their limit. So I would only expect a minor bump in clockspeed if at all - the gain by a few MHz is certainly not justified if it compromises the cooling solution design.

 

[GoofsterStud]

So it can't be a higher rated GPU but it can be lower! Like it.

Unless You want RROD 2.0. Just higher defects.

So I would only expect a minor bump in clockspeed if at all - the gain by a few MHz is certainly not justified if it compromises the cooling solution design.

This isn't the same as overclocking one chip...but every chip... To something that every chip overclocks to. Volts will be needed. Or you limit the already limited supply even further and have a higher defect rate in the process.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Any modifications done this late now into the production cycle will more than likely be software. It will be easier for MS (predominantly a software house) to scale back the OS requirements (a la Windows Thin PC) rather than start redesigning hardware specs. They can also work on it now with engineers/developers and they just have to bundle it in a day 0 patch.

I refuse to believe that 3GB is required for OS's just to enable some gimmicky features. And how do they even separate it? Trust devs to work within a 5GB limit?

Games are sandboxes in the game OS and are limited to the given hardware. The game can't see the other partition of RAM.

 

[IHaveCandy]

I guess MS has still room in their TDP envelope so if they want to sacrifice that for higher clocks I say go for it unless they already operate at the limit. Looking at their early 360 RRoD issues I doubt this is the case. They have probably more than enough means to dissipate that heat without any shortened lifespan or damage at all to the components.

In the end it all depends if they can up the clockspeed with the same voltage - heat scales linear with that. If they have to enhance the voltage aswell heat will rise ² (exponentiell increase) and that might be too much.

Assuming a 7850 with 1.138V and 975MHz Core has a TDP of 130W (all values are more or less accurate) you get the following new TDP with a 100MHz/200MHz and what would happen if for 200MHz we need to increase the voltage to 1.25V:

130W * (1.138²V/1.138²V) * (1075MHz/975MHz) = 130W * 1 * 1.102 = 143W
130W * (1.138²V/1.138²V) * (1175MHz/975MHz) = 130W * 1 * 1.205 = 157W

130W * (1.250²V/1.138²V) * (1175MHz/975MHz) = 130W * 1.206 * 1.205 = 189W

Of course this is just a example and not a 100% scientific math. But it gives a overview how the scaling works and how even 100MHz could end up being too much - especially modern GPUs are already often at their limit. So I would only expect a minor bump in clockspeed if at all - the gain by a few MHz is certainly not justified if it compromises the cooling solution design.

Any meaningful increase in clockspeed is going to not really make a difference. They cantbjusgvad 30mhz and think it will matter.

 

[Pug]

That's pretty much how late-stage design works, yup.

There is no clock changes and changes up or down would cause problems.

 

[Brera]

So they're going to increase all that just a few months before launch?

Sounds bogus. I'd be pretty sure that Xbone is already in production in China...!

 

[Zukuu]

Need cboat seal of proof.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

There is no clock changes and changes up or down would cause problems.

A downclock would not cause production issues though, in fact it would ease any issues they are currently experiencing.

 

[fertygo]

Upclocking at this late sound stupid anyway, I'll be happy if hearing this sooner. This late? sound like disaster waiting to happen.

"Late change our million hardware 5 month before release guys" yeah, sounds like bad idea.

 

[cormack12]

Games are sandboxes in the game OS and are limited to the given hardware. The game can't see the other partition of RAM.

Cheers.

 

[StevieP]

lol is specialguy writing for the examiner?
(edit: sorry specialguy, didn't remember that you were banned so you couldn't respond)

 

[IHaveCandy]

There is no clock changes and changes up or down would cause problems.

Downclocked may cause problems for games expecting the regular clock speeds, but hardware isn't going to show reliability issues from downclocking.

 

[Pug]

A downclock would not cause production issues though, in fact it would ease any issues they are currently experiencing.

It would cause even bigger problems with regards to development especially if made late. There has never been a downclock.

 

[IHaveCandy]

It would cause even bigger problems with regards to development especially if made late. There has never been a downclock.

Ps3 GPU was downclocked rather late.

 

[systemfehler]

Unless You want RROD 2.0. Just higher defects.



This isn't the same as overclocking one chip...but every chip... To something that every chip overclocks to. Volts will be needed. Or you limit the already limited supply even further and have a higher defect rate in the process.

That is what I meant with my posting. The negative impacts are far more serious than the increase in speed you will get from overclocking x amount of stream processors. Unless you like you stated the material you work with is good enough eg. the cooling solution is overdesigned and your yield rate is good enough to hand select chips. I both think that both are rather unlikely because of cost and time.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

It would cause even bigger problems with regards to development especially if made late. There has never been a downclock.

For launch games. Other than that it wouldn't be a big deal. RSX was downclocked very late in the day to deal with production issues.

 

[Majanew]

You can turn it off but it still has to listen to one phrase: "Xbox On". Only in Germany is it truly off-off.

Then it isn't off outside Germany. If I have zero use for it and want it off, I should be able to place it in my closet. I don't care to say Xbox On when my controller is already on my coffee table.

 

[Wickerbasket]

If they're really upclocking it then it's either not coming out this year, or it's going to be in such short supply that it's like they're not launching this year.

Most likely these rumours are complete fud though.

 

[ralexand]

Microsoft would be stupid to remove the Kinect. It's its ace in the hole and the one thing differentiating it from being just another game console.

 

[Wickerbasket]

Microsoft would be stupid to remove the Kinect. It's its ace in the hole and the one thing differentiating it from being just another game console.

I think being in parity on price would be a bigger selling point than having kinect packed in, personally.

You can never tell what the mass audience will go for though, Nintendo obviously thought their Gamepad was going to be a huge selling point.

 

[Esqueleto]

I still don't see a point in trying to get more performance from overclocking the GPU. They should be focusing on making sure no part is holding the rest back and right now bandwidth looks to be the biggest bottleneck.

 

[Fafalada]

Ps3 GPU was downclocked rather late.

Not this late.

And if we want to be pedantic here - the public downclocks (XBox1,PS3,GCN,PSP) were not reflected on dev-side - the devkits never ran at higher clocks than what the systems released at.
The usual process is that there is a gradual ramp-up of speeds as hw gets finalized(to targets that were set a long time in advance though), but I've never actually heard of a case where HW got bumped down, only failing to hit the next ramp-up in some cases.

 

[Proelite]

They can easily increase the useable ram because almost gig of it is in locked away for future proofing.

 

[jaosobno]

Does anyone know CBOAT summoning ritual?

We need him all over this thread.

 

[Vashetti]

They can easily increase the useable ram because almost gig of it is in locked away for future proofing.

Xbox One RAM:

5GB for games/3GB for the OS

 

[Ushae]

Adding RAM is one of the few things that can be changed this late isn't it? It depends on MS, are they willing to spend more. They should in my opinon, for the sake of multiplatform games.

 

[Jack_AG]

To recap...

Someone posts the usual BS rumor mill junk on B3D
We joke about it here on GAF after the fact in a different thread
Someone reads that B3D forum post linked here on GAF
BOOM - old rumors hit examiner with another "my sources tell me" bull crap

popcorn.jpg

 

[Caayn]

Xbox One RAM:

5GB for games/3GB for the OS

And yet, that's only rumored/speculations.

I don't really see the upclock happening, but I think that the ram upgrade is possible. But only if the current dev kits are already equipped with 12GB of ram.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

Less than 6 months till the system is out, they start asking developers what kind of hardware they'd like?

Is anyone buying this?

 

[xValentine]

This bump will benefit all even if you only have a PS4 as the quality of multiplat games will increase even if they go for the lowest common denominator.

Next gen can't come soon enough.

 

[Black Republican]

uh, im no tech wiz but isnt it too late to upgrade RAM?

 

[wizzbang]

Totally credible!

Bingo

 

[Guymelef]

And yet, that's only rumored/speculations.

I don't really see the upclock happening, but I think that the ram upgrade is possible. But only if the current dev kits are already equipped with 12GB of ram.

Confirmed indirectly by Marc Whitten.
And Avalanche Studios CTO said the same.

 

[Key2001]

Adding RAM is one of the few things that can be changed this late isn't it? It depends on MS, are they willing to spend more. They should in my opinon, for the sake of multiplatform games.

Is there room on the current board design for 8 more 4-Gbit DDR3 chips? If not, I would think any board redesign would cause a delay at this point.

I guess there is a possibility to switch to 8-Gbit DDR3 chips? However, Micron doesn't make 8-Gbit DD3-2133 chips so MS would either have to lower the bandwidth or OC the RAM. Being only 4 months from release, not enough time for any extensive testing, this seems like it would be too risky to do.

 

[googleplex]

And yet, that's only rumored/speculations.

I don't really see the upclock happening, but I think that the ram upgrade is possible. But only if the current dev kits are already equipped with 12GB of ram.

A ram upgrade this late in the game is NEVER HAPPENING! Trying to up ram to 12 gig would be.

(a)Pointless give the type of ram
(b) Would delay the Xbone to next year.

 

[Pug]

uh, im no tech wiz but isnt it too late to upgrade RAM?

Well if they have started the manufacturing the motherboards its most certainty too late. More importantly though the specs MS revealed at the Xbox one launch detailed 8GB of ram. Do people really think this will change?